Issen
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Quote:Perhaps. I suppose I'm more use to weapon-based sets being a -little- flashy (since they don't have a ton of graphical effects to toy with). I mean, Arc of Destruction in Titan Weapons?Originally Posted by Oathbound
Eye of the Storm really is the main offender. Given that it's likely the major AoE of the set though, that's a pretty big negative. -
Quote:...What's the problem with the Incarnate Trials?Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
As for the bolded, have you actually tried to READ the Praetorian arc for the trials? LOL, you're complaining about this here? Really?
Honestly I've heard Venture and some others say how the Praetorian Arc and iTrials are "poor writing" but never ONCE was any actual examples given of this.
Could you clarify for me? -
Quote:With the exception of Eye Of The Storm (The breakdancing-esque PBAoE attack), most of that looked...fairly consistent with what I'd expect from fighting with a staff.Originally Posted by Oathbound
Agree 100%. Some of them (particularly the break dance one) are SO flashy that they're just.... cheesy (to me).
I was really looking forward to Staff Fighting too.
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Quote:And hopefully get the chance to get some seriously righteous payback.Originally Posted by Xzero45
Best explanation I can come up with for this is the fact that, like most stories, the villains are organized, know where to target, what they're doing, what they want, and how to get it. Meanwhile, the heroes, preoccupied with every other crisis in the world, get surprise attacks left and right from Malaise, Darrin Wade, Marshal Blitz, and the player villain, that they didn't have the proper time to collect themselves.
At the end of SSA4, though, Positron is gathering the Phalanx and organizing things, which tells me that SSA4 will be when heroes start making a come back. Unfortunately, too little too late, but we still have two more parts afterwards, giving heroes plenty of time to be inspired and motivated by Statesman's demise, regroup, pull off a "You crossed the line, villains" speech, and have an epic final battle where the player villains will lose, but the loss will probably open up more plots, schemes, and future victories, while the heroes finally have a moment to mourn and collect the pieces. -
Quote:I already know who the architect is, and frankly, given I've already given away what happens from parts 1-4 in this thread? There's no reason to hide it.Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Funny how people react when they have the floor dropped out from under them.
The mystery architect (remaining nameless for spoiler purposes) has done one hell of a job hitting the heroes where it hurts. Yes, you're running around like chickens with their heads cut off; this is because the mystery architect has already chopped off said head. From here on out it's just a matter of waiting for the body to stop running. Then the job will be finished.
And honestly, if what you said is the case? Then it's incredibly poor writing on the part of the devs. Who's going to care about the Arc on Blueside if they don't feel motivated to play it because the writing forces idiocy?
As Mokalus said, I -could- be calling doom and gloom early. A distinct possibility I realize. I'm just feeling a little sore from the fact that the story THUSFAR feels like nothing of a series of "Look-at-how-stupid-Heroes-are". -
Quote:As I said before, and in fact PREFACED MY ORIGINAL POST WITH:Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
The SSA arc is called WHO WILL DIE?
In the arc, A HERO DIES.
When a HERO DIES, VILLAINS are involved.
When VILLAINS cause a HERO to DIE, villains are victorious.
I'm sad no one has said this yet, and I'm even sadder I had to spell it out for you. If the arc was "LORD RECLUSE GETS BEATEN TO DEATH BY A BUNCH OF HEROES" the redside arcs would be every villain character getting crapped on in every arc. And as for 'throwing heroes a bone'?
No. For once redside is getting some love and you have no right to get your undies in a wad over it.
I have ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH VILLAINS WINNING.
I cannot state this clearly enough.
What bugs me? What has my "undies in a wad"? Is the manner in which it's written. I'm fine with Villains winning if it looks like the Heroes at least TRIED to foil them.
Right now the arcs have us bluesiders running around like chickens with our heads lopped off. -
Beam Rifles required a purchase and wasn't a melee set. But you've seemingly already addressed that point.
I'd also point out just how darn POWERFUL the two new melee sets are. Street Justice is basically Dual Blades on crack, and Titan Weapons AoE-fest makes melees weep for joy (seeing as melee sets tend to be somewhat lacking in the AoE department save 1 or 2 attacks).
I have no doubt that Staff (based on what we know of the mechanics) won't be just as buff. -
Quote:His mouth moves, but his actions say something different. He says he wants Tyrant gotten rid of, but otherwise takes no visible action. Villains helping out in the Incarnate Trials often has nothing to do with Recluse, he's not ordering them to assist.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Recluse wants Tyrant destroyed - he says so on the Tin Mage TF.
So why hasn't Recluse taken ANY overt action? If he's just offering his verbal support to the cause it doesn't really mean much. -
Quote:I want to believe this. I really, REALLY want to believe this will happen. But the bitter taste in my mouth and the sting left behind by the previous 4 arcs have left me feeling more than a little upset and lacking motivation. As Johnny_Butane stated, massive damage has already been inflicted. Even if, somehow, the heroes manage to eke out a victory, it'll be a minor and possibly hollow one at best.Originally Posted by Redbone
In most stories (not all, but a sizable number) the story progresses with the "good guys" basically losing for the vast majority of the story. If they do "win" a battle, it is one of moral superiority it's at the expense of a worse loss elsewhere (Mr. Hero saved the love intrest but in doing so missed his chance at stopping the big bad's plans cold, thus negating the threat entirely). That's how dramatic tension is maintained. It's not until the 3 (or the 5th act, depending on the structure) where the Good Guys pull theselves together, figure it out, stop being reactive and take a proactive stand and win the day in the end.
Meanwhile the Villain Status Quo (Villains don't take any substantive losses) is maintained because God (read: the Devs) made it so. I mean, Freedom had the first real blow dealt to Recluse (Fort Darwin being lost) in forever...only to have the FIRST THING new villains do is take it back and re-establish the bottom line.
I mean, if you think about it? Praetoria is mostly a Hero-thing. Recluse doesn't give two craps about Praetoria or a possible hostile takeover it seems, and it has to be Paragon that steps up to the plate to deal with it. Blueside seems to be investing all the work, and Redside getting to benefit from it.
At least it's how it seems. -
Quote:As I stated, I've NO problem with the Villains coming out on top (and no, the Rikti War Zone missions don't really count because the Rikti are bad news for EVERYONE. It's just like the Praetorians. If they win, everyone, everywhere, loses), but NOT when it's written this way. It feels as though the heroes are forced to fall several steps behind because the writing demands it, rather than for any logical reason.Originally Posted by Mad_Scientist_JC
May have to take that .5 away actually. I hear tell that the missiles still launch while you're fighting Blitz. As to your complaints, well, Villains are due a victory. How many times do we have to set aside our goals because some threat greater than all of us pops up and we have to play hero? No matter how despicable a character I roll, I can go to the Rikti Warzone and be given a mission that says Save the World. That's pretty insulting to a villain. We don't have a say in that. It not a big surprise that you feel this way though. Things have come up Hero so often that I was actually amazed when I finally realized that since a hero is guaranteed to die and be removed from the world in these arcs, villains would actually have a solid victory in this no matter what. I had come to accept the fact that villains will only get to win if they play hero, that I never really thought about what a sweet villain victory this would be. Honestly your post made me like these arcs all the more since it seems like the heroes are really getting hosed. Thanks.
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Quote:I'm actually curious as to hear how you came to this conclusion? I haven't played many of the arcs redside besides SSA1 and 2, but if you can add something to the discussion, please do. I'm interested in hearing a perspective.Originally Posted by Tyger42
To be perfectly honest, I think you're being way too generous on the villain points and too stingy on the hero points. But, I suppose if you don't view anything other than a total win for the heroes and total loss for the villains as a point for the heroes, then you're right.
And I don't honestly think I'm being too generous/stingy with the points. I mean, sure, in SSA1 you save Synapse...but only because the villains didn't RTFM, which (in my mind) diminishes the value of the victory. Heroes only prevailed because the villains didn't read the booklet that came with the magic artifact. It's hard for me to feel proud when you realize you won on a technicality.
And Alexis' death in SSA3 feels like the cheapest blow because it occurs at a time where the heroes have NO idea as to her status until after the fact. If the heroes knew she was going to be killed and just failed to reach her in time, that'd be fine. I could live with that. But that she's killed while you're doing other things (Warburg missiles) means you didn't even have a slim chance of getting her back at all, or even knew she was going to be killed in the first place. -
I'll preface my post by saying this: I have absolutely ZERO, I repeat, ZERO problems with villains winning, or losing by the skin of their teeth (aka the world came THAT close to ending!). I have a few redside characters myself, but I thought I'd make this clear before anyone things I'm just being a hater.
So...the SSAs. Yeah. I have to admit, after thinking over Part 4, I've come to the conclusion that these arcs are definitely NOT intended for folks already familiar with the lore. Why? Because those characters should be familiar with almost everything that happens, or should see the twist coming a mile away. This is painful because CoH is a world in which almost every super-hero trope we know of IS true. Why aren't people MORE Genre Savvy?
I'll do a count:
SSA-1: Heroes stop a plan to remove Synapse's power from him, but the grand-mastermind behind the scheme still has a backup, he just forgot to RTFM. References are made to the Lost's "masters", who anyone familiar with the lore should recognize as the Rikti.
Villains 1, Heroes 0
SSA-2: Darrin Wade instigates a raid on the Midnighter's Club with the help of the Rulu-Shin (anyone knowing the lore or has played redside knows this connection exists) to steal Tommy Arcanus' Skull, among other things. Villains steal the skull back, but not before some vital information is given to the head mastermind. Villains also get a shiny ransom from Numina for returning the skull. Heroes once again fall behind.
Villains 2, Heroes 0
SSA-3: Heroes are forced to fail to see through the obvious trap ever when Malaise kidnaps Alexis. Manticore insists on protecting her alone rather than having anyone help him, and thus fails miserably (more violation of common sense). The Heroes are distracted by Marshall Blitz trying to fling Warburg's nuclear missiles at Paragon, while Alexis is killed off-camera. By the time the Heroes organize, defeat Marshall Blitz, and then find Jean/Malaise, Alexis has been dead for some time, seemingly for the sole purpose of pissing people off.
Villains 3, Heroes 0.5 (I have to give the Heroes some credit for stopping the missiles, but WHY couldn't a separate group try to retrieve Alexis while that was happening?!)
SSA-4: Despite being captured and interrogated under lock and key, Malaise sets off an "Exactly-As-Planned" scheme by which he gets himself into Sister Psyche's mind and tries to kill her for reasons that are never explained besides him being "totally-off-his-rocker-evil". The Heroes save Psyche from being killed, but she's now trapped inside her own mind by a piece of Aurora Borealis' personality that wants to murder her, and the heroes cannot do a thing to help her, putting her out of commission for a while. Meanwhile, Manticore gets mind-warped by the Dirge of Chaos, Statesman is angry and Ms. Liberty is just shy of going full Vigilante (though it's not without justification)
Villains 4, Heroes 0.5
SSA-5: We know Statesman is somehow killed. This precludes anything the player could possibly do or think of that could be of any use or could possibly prevent the situation. Statesman bites the bullet no matter what the Heroes do, and are forced to watch as the villains get to laugh at them for failing to be useful yet again. Good job!
Final Tally Thusfar: Villains 5, Heroes 0.5
Maybe I'm being unfairly biased, but the writing in this arcs seems to force Blueside to keep their hands on the Idiot Ball at all times, and violates all forms of Common Sense to the point that you're beating a dead corpse into a bloody mess. At this point, I'm actually LOSING my motivation to continue the arc. I start asking myself "Besides wanting to see how it will end (which is already poisoned by the current track record), where's my motivation to continue if my character is going to be forced to fail no matter how hard I try?"
It seems like the only way to feel good about this is to play a villain and revel in the forced stupidity that the Heroes must endure because the powers-that-be decide it must be so. Yes, I have heard complaints from redsiders that they just feel like wheels in a machine. But at least they aren't forced to sit there and yell at their monitors while characters make blatantly obvious and bad mistakes left and right, with absolutely NO ability to have a say in the matter.
This isn't a complaint against the current arc and the amount of spectating you do. I rather liked SSA4 because you got to see interactions and dialogue between characters that develop them. If this means I have to watch, that's fine. But OVERALL, the fact that my character(s) are forced to have their IQ diminished because the writing said so feels demeaning, aggravating, insulting, depressing, etc, etc.
At this point I feel the only suitable compensation is if the Heroes get to go full Vigilante with Ms. Liberty and Longbow and the other Vindicators and curb-stomp the everloving CRAP out of whoever is responsible in the ultimate form of justice for this travesty. Because right now I feel like a total curb-stomp would be the only thing that would satisfy me right now. -
To play Devil's Advocate here, wasn't the explanation at the Pummit about why pet customization wasn't something they could do a matter of resources? I don't know the specifics, but I believe it was something like how pets are roughly equal in terms of data size to PCs, and allowing everyone customization options would be a strain on resources or something to that effect?
I'm not opposed to the idea, personally (To make a pun about sexism I'd note the number of female MM PCs who use Thugs/Mercs and give them names or have a bio denoting how the pets are people they use/abuse!
) but my understanding was that the devs had a fairly understandable reason for not having it.
At least not yet. -
So, I've got this nice concept and build down for a /Dark MM. Problem is...I can't decide on the primary. I've narrowed it down to two choices:
Thugs/Dark (The Gold Standard)
or
Mercs/Dark (The Gold Concept)
Build-wise the two are about equal, with a few changes:
- If I go Mercs, I take Burst and the Grenade (or the -Def and KB respectively), supplementing my pets. If I go Thugs, I just take Empty Clips (for the KB again, excuse to throw in an FF proc)
- I've never played a Thugs to 32, only to about 22. I've done Mercs to 32, but it was a Mercs/Traps and I was new to MMs, which made Mercs frustrating.
- I skip Petrifying Gaze in both instances.
- Taking Mercs lets me slot the AH and LG Proc in my pets, but prevents me from using the Pet Recharge resist/defense IOs, Thugs lets me use my Soulbound Allegiance BU Proc and an AH, but only in the Enforcers, and Gang War lets me use the resist/defense IOs.
I'm just not sure what to go with. Are there people who have used both Thugs AND Mercs who can give me some advice? -
I'd say a change of the AI.
During the Pummit they talked about the fact that even minor pet customization would put a sizeable strain on their server resources (As the pets are apparently roughly equivalent to PCs in terms of data). -
I ran an all MM MoITF just last friday, and I intended to do that again (perhaps with another TF this time).
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=279880 Here's the details right here.
The final group configuration was 1 Demon, 2 Thugs, 1 Necro, 1 Ninja, and 3 Bots (We had a dropout due to lag, originally it was 4 Bots, and 1 Thugs)
I wouldn't mind running a similar event on Virtue this Friday. -
Quote:This. I've been fine with villains winning, but the heroes seem to be able to do NOTHING but always be two steps behind the entire way. Since Statesman's death is a guarantee, it means that nothing you do actually matters, Statesman bites the bullet no matter how well or poor you perform.Originally Posted by Zemblanity
What's the point of playing these SSA's blueside? They've been on auto-failure since pretty much the beginning. I'm guessing there's something wrong with the Streak Breaker, because heroes are getting way too many critical failures. On that note, I'd be worried about MARTy if I were a villain. Of course, you could consider simply renaming blueside to City of Losers...
Spoilers:
#1 - Villains steal Synapse's powers for tasty temp powers - Heroes get to watch
#2 - Villains ransom off Numina's father for a tasty temp power - Heroes get to watch
#3 - Villains murder Statesman's spawn - Heroes get to watch
#4 - Villains seal Sister Psycho's persona inside her own head - Heroes get to watch
#5 - Villains kill Statesman and steal his powers - Heroes get to watch
#6 - Villains help Wade become the Death Incarnate in Dark Astoria - Heroes get to watch
#7 - Villains realize they're over their head and get Infernia to restore Hero 1's sanity - Heroes crouch by the corner and cry...
Zwil, I'm seriously tempted to create a blueside hero in Zukunft just so I don't distracted by all the soap drama you keep shoving down my throat. ::Thumbs Down::
P.S. "Daddy, can you fly to heaven?" I'm hoping that semi-quote from the Freedom Phalanx novel means that Statesman is about to pull a Manticore and commit suicide in order to retrieve Alexis from heaven. If it's just more handkerchief marketting I'll be seriously disappointed. Where did all the fun in this game go, it's all funerals and grief lately...
Is the point of the SSAs that heroes get to look like idiots who cannot get the job done when the chips are down and lives are on the line? As long as Statesman's death is a Heroic Sacrifice and not a "I get to see a cutscene where's he gunned down like a dog", I'll be happy.
But otherwise these SSAs are just depressing. Again, if Miss Liberty decides to let loose and go to town with the Rogue's Isle, I'm ALL for that. At this point there's almost no suitable compensation besides a total curb-stomp. -
I'm actually quite surprised. And really, anyone saying this kills the suspense forgets the most important part of what Zwill said:
"You know WHO dies, but you don't know HOW."
The 'How' has to be the most important part of this. I mean, we're talking about freaking STATESMAN here. Guy who punches things and lightning explodes everywhere. Someone with a direct link to the Well. How exactly could anyone just kill him? That's the suspenseful part. And if this person/thing could kill Statesman, what does that mean for everyone else?
Also, I'd be fine with Ms. Liberty. Honestly, after Part 3, I have no problems with Longbow's activities anymore. If Ms. Liberty goes full Vigilante, I'd have a characters who would be ALL too happy to help her. It would be fine time for a little eye-for-an-eye payback after being forced to act like an idiot the last 3 parts of this arc. -
Quote:I disagree, but you're welcome to your opinion.Originally Posted by rsclark
Actually, you're wrong. A 6 level difference means a lot. It's not just 50% more than a 4 level difference.
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I actually have two arcs, well one being an on-going story, the other is a one-shot.
Both are actually in my signature, but I figure I'll let you guys know now:
Author Name - @Issen1
"The Directive" - Currently a 4-part 'arc', with each chapter being it's own arc. The story itself is not finished because over on Virtue, the arcs are run in-character, staggered over a period of weeks and months to give players a sense of progression. As such, each 'arc' has level tiers to reflect the levels at which the arcs were made (I started them back when I started CoH). There's lots of information in the briefing and the clues, so it's a bit text-heavy.
"This Inglorious War" - A one-shot arc I wrote as a tribute to something I very much enjoyed outside of City of Heroes. Again, very story intensive arc.
Both these arcs are fairly challenging, without being silly broken or containing ridiculous enemy mobs, as I like to balance a story with some difficulty to make the players feel like they've earned the progression that they achieve. I highly recommend a full team of 8 with a balance of ATs, especially for the Directive arc. -
Quote:Your math is fine...except it only counts a single person using a single debuff. And you're not counting in the people who might have Incarnate powers that aren't level-shift (T2s and T1s). When you have an entire league of people slinging attacks and buffs/debuffs, it adds up really quick.Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Yeah, but Zwillinger isn't teaming with the groups I've been teaming with recently. Also I suspect that the groups he's been with have the majority having a couple level shifts (if not +3). With the groups that I've seen in the last week a character having +3 is in the minority.
Did I say that people NEED to be +3 for the trials? No, so take your hyperbole somewhere else. Facing a level 54+2 AV means you are not contributing much, if anything to the battle.
Combat: Debuff strength, Mez duration, Knockback magnitude, and Damage are all affected by the "purple patch".
+4 level modifier: All Debuff strength, Mez duration, Knockback magnitude, and Damage suffers a 0.48 multiplier. An additional +2 level modifier means: All Debuff strength, Mez duration, Knockback magnitude, and Damage suffers a 0.15 multiplier. With a base tohit chance modifier for a +4 Critter has a 0.39 multiplier, +6 means it has a 0.20 multiplier.
Because we're talking about level 54 AVs, a further 87% decrease in effectiveness is applied.
Let's see how that applies to Maelstrom if a Rad Defender uses an optimally enhanced Radiation Infection. Optimally Radiation Infection applies a -61% Defense penalty to the target. An optimally slotted Radiation Infection from a level 50 vs a level 54+2 AV is -1.1895%.
-61*0.15 = -9.15% * (1 - 0.87)= -1.1895%
A single insight inspiration gives a +7.5% bonus tohit.
Lingering Radiation Regen debuff: Optimally 500% debuff.
500%*0.15 = 75% * 0.13 = 9.75%
All this means is that unless the characters are heavily IO'd, you aren't doing enough to compensate for the AV level shift.
Again, I'd much rather have a Level 50 unshifted with SOs who knows what they're doing and can follow instructions over a 50+3 with a perfect build who can't do jack.
And again, people like Trilby already have the trials down to science so that level unshifted folks can participate and contribute. Which is what happens every-time a new trial comes out. Takes about a week or so for folks to get the routines down, and then it's not hard at all.
I'm not using hyperbole over the level-shift thing. I will call BS on anyone insisting you need/should be level-shifted to contribute to the new trials. Because it's true. -
Zwill was in a thread about level-shifting earlier and noted that while he got kicked out for not being level-shifted (Yes, even the community reps aren't +3), then got into another TPN/MoM (forget which one) just fine.
Level-shifting helps, but it's not the end-all, be-all. Someone who knows their AT and knows their role and is unshifted will ALWAYS be better than someone whose a +3-shifted idiot.
Claiming that you NEED +3 for the trials is a complete and utter lie. Just because the AVs are 54+2 doesn't mean anything if the League knows what they're supposed to do and how to do it. -
As the one who started it, I have to admit I was inspired by the talk of Masterminds and Trials, and remember I once did an all-Dual Pistols ITF once as well, and figured "Hell, why not?"
I'm glad everyone was so patient. We had one drop-out due to lag, but I was surprised by the LACK of lag on our part mostly. Enemies did wind up popping in and out all over the place courtesy of the engine's rendering limitations. But overall, I'm glad people were so patient with me.
The huge success was likely due to the fact over half the team was /Dark, so Twilight Grasp got MAXIMUM efficiency and performance. Not to mention with two /Trap Bots and the one /FF using Power boost along with about 5 stacks of Maneuvers equaled about...135-138% in Melee, Ranged, and AoE defenses. Resistances weren't as high, but with BG mode it was laughable.
Quote:You think that was crazy? Do you even want to hear about the ludicrous burn patch shenanigans? Thugs + Bots = DoT overload. Cyclops and Minotaurs tried to pop Unstoppable and still melted like butter.Originally Posted by Psylenz
Wow, all those seeker drones and photon grenades...
what? ... what?
I wouldn't mind doing a regular all MM-event. Perhaps even doing so on the WSTs (Though something like Statesman/Lord Recluse might be incredibly difficult due to the final boss of the encounter). You'd think it would be bad having that many pets, but it went surprisingly well.Quote:Originally Posted by Comicsluvr
1) There's a MM channel? How did I miss out on this?????
2) I used to run an all-MM thing called MM Mondays because why should Tankers have all the fun? It was always a hoot. We all started at lvl 1-2 and switched the Diff up at lvl 6 and again at lvl 12. On slow nights I'd hold MM classes like 'Defensive/Follow FTW' and 'Yes...it's okay for MMs to attack no matter what other players say.'
3) I'd love to get in on an all-MM regular event if someone else can host it. My schedule is too hectic right now to organize it I'm afraid.
Heh, we tried, but the one person on my list with a 50 Merc MM wasn't available at the time. I actually would preferred a few more Demons because Ember Shield stacking would've made the entire TF a joke.Quote:Originally Posted by Paladiamors
Bah! This group was missing Mercs! I am not pleased!
Seriously though, good job!
We did, with the exception of the false start, which was my fault for not informing the team properly that we were going to do an Master-Of run, it went ridiculously smooth. I was most impressed with the results. I can imagine we could do almost any of the TFs minus something like the STF or LGTF (Weakened Hamidon would be a pain) with all MMs and be assured of a good amount of success.Quote:Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I saw this being formed last night and I knew I was going to be missing out.
You guys must have had a blast.
I hope to do this regularly if possible, encourage folks to actively use MMs more, as there were times I feared we wouldn't have enough people for a full team. -
Quote:Then the TPN isn't the trial for you, you should probably do MoM in it's place.Originally Posted by Snow Globe
There is zero interest in the new trials. I did it, successfully, on beta and I have no interest in the TPN. It is NOT fun, it can be failed by a few people not paying attention, and I don't want to spend most of my night micro-managing how the team is made up.
The TPN forces people to have to think about party design and distribution of ATs, which isn't a bad thing, even if it's something that CoX flatly ignores through the 1-49 portions. Having to make players actually have to stop and think about what they're doing won't hurt, unless you're in a huge rush.
Luckily, the solo Dark Astoria content will offer an alternative to the Trials. -
...They stated your chances of getting costume pieces was high within that tier (Common, Uncommon, Rare, Very Rare) and once you got the piece, you couldn't get it again. In fact, it likely bumps UP the chances of getting the other pieces from that given tier.
Also, at 80 points a pack, you're getting a steal for the items inside (in terms of overall value).