Innovator
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Quote:I'm now inspired to get a Brazilian.Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
Please believe me, I don't want to have to think about Sucker Punch at all - and the Comicon trailer strongly suggested its audience wouldn't - but once Zack the Hack invoked Brazil, he might as well have slapped me across the face with a kid glove and challenged me to pistols at dawn. -
They've been trying for years to get out movies of Buck Rogers and Greatest American Hero. So far no go, but Hollywood is tenacious.
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Quote:All he said that he was inspired by Brazil, sure he could put an hommage in the movie, but that doesn't make the movie Brazil. Other than a basic theme of fantasy escapism the movie isn't like Brazil. You are putting a lot on one statement. If anything the movie is more like Pan's Labyrinth. Number of tasks and items and the final being the hero sacrificing herself for a greater purpose. There have been as many critics or even more making that connection than Brazil.Originally Posted by Lothic
I really don't understand why you want to try to pretend Snyder didn't base Sucker Punch on Brazil when Snyder has DIRECTLY said that he did. Obviously if you dig hard enough you can find similarities between what Snyder showed us and other sources and obviously Snyder took the basic idea and expanded on it (i.e. another Samuari with a mini-gun). But none of that can "wipe away" the core fundamental truth that Sucker Punch was PRIMARILY based on Brazil. Please accept that as a fact in this case.
Now having said that there's nothing actually wrong with a filmmaker like Synder doing that. Flimmakers basically "borrow" ideas from previous movies all the time. The only thing Snyder did wrong in this case is that he took a previous movie and made a WORSE version of it, not a better one.
Okay let's put it this way Chris Nolan himself said he was inspired by The Matrix and Lord of the Rings for Inception. Does that make the movie based on The Matrix and Lord of the Rings? Oh wait the movie did have agents they had to fight and fortress in the snow....right? -
Quote:Which one? There were three of them and each of them looked like three of the four winds in Big Trouble in Little China, and no where in Brazil did it have a Giant Stone Samurai weilding a mini gun.Originally Posted by Ironik
I think you guys keep missing the fact that ZACK SNYDER said he based Sucker Punch on Brazil. The parallels are there because he put them there. He didn't base it on Volron, he based it on Brazil. And the giant samurai doesn't look like Voltron, it looks like the giant samurai in Brazil. Baby Doll doesn't go through the same character arc as Voltron, she goes through the same character arc as Sam Lowry.
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Quote:I know they had anime in the 1950's, but those were more Disney like at the time, made with kids and cute animals, and WWII obviously had influence on Baby Doll's imagination. However, one of my issues with the dance sequences (other that what I had already mentioned) was how modern some of the concepts seemed and how modern some of the weapons were, which was kinda weird considering the era Baby Doll was living.Originally Posted by BrandX
Remember, this is 1950 with different ideas on what was good for patients.
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Quote:If you actually saw the fight, you couldn't help see the anime inspirations of it. My friend told me before he saw the movie, "Man, they are totally ripping off Silver Samurai in Marvel comics", but decided it wasn't the case after he saw the movie.Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
One could get away with the anime argument if the movies' themes weren't the same. When Gilliam has a giant samurai, though, he's using the visual image to shrink his protagonist down to a child's scale, undercutting the heroic fantasy at the heart of the escapism. When Snyder has one face off Baby Doll (and let's not try to unpack that misfiring nickname), he's only thinking of how cool it looks.
I claimed I was influenced by a movie to make breakfast. I didn't claim any influence from the comic...maybe if I played the piano and sang songs.Quote:Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
If you're going to claim influence, don't use an example that suggests you don't get the original. (I'm struggling to avoid a derail into how poor the movie adaptation of V for Vendetta was, but that's a separate thread.) -
Quote:The giant armored Samurai in the movie was more an hommage to anime then Brazil. The different fantasy sequences in the movie were homages to different fantasy and sci-fi genres...though mainly were obviously anime influenced.Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
When the very proportions of the giant armored samurai vs. the protagonist are virtually the same in a movie with the same theme, then the term "knock off" is entirely applicable. If Sucker Punch were any good, and the consensus is that it's not, it might get upgraded to "hommage".
Huh...what? That makes no sense in context.Quote:Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
But in claiming influence, you've chosen a detail that's simply wrong. "Eggy's in a basket" is a failed attempt at verisimilitude to anchor the science fiction elements, something that Moore, who was quite explicit in creating a very English dystopia, found emblematic of the way his graphic novel was badly adapted. That example nicely illustrates the problem of claiming influence while not fully grasping the source material, something that's a particular problem for Zack the Hack. -
Quote:But...but...it....didn't rip off Brazil's look. /throw hands up in the air...I give up.Originally Posted by Ironik
Ripping off Brazil's look while missing its point just means Sucker Punch will be forgotten rather quickly.
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Quote:Cause like Brazil, fantasy escapism is a main theme of Sucker Punch.Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
So why did Snyder bring up Brazil at all? I suppose it's better that he did ahead of Sucker Punch's release instead of everyone pointing out the thematic and visual similarities, from the escapism-as-brain-damage climax to the protagonist's battle with a giant armored samurai.
I did say I was influenced by the movie to make breakfast...didn't I? Addendum: Regardless, I did make eggs so the main theme of my influence carried.Quote:Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
"Eggy's in a basket" was an interpolation from the mediocre screenplay adaptation for the V for Vendetta movie that Alan Moore found absurd, with its ersatz attempt to portray realistic English details to offset the sci-fi dystopia.
It's not a question of having influences, which is inescapable; it's of recognizing and appreciating them and then making something new and interesting out of them. -
Quote:Which is what we've been saying...Snyder didn't rip off or knock off Brazil in any way what so ever. At least the movie, didn't show any such blatant "influences". I could just as well say I was influenced by the V for Vendetta movie today to make breakfast, which is accurate as I thought about making eggy's in a basket...but went with sunny side up instead.Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
Yes.
When Snyder, in an interview months before Sucker Punch, claims Brazil "really inspired me" in making it, he's hyping his movie by bringing up a touchstone of geekdom. Of course, his final product now turns out to be qualitatively miles away from Gilliam's landmark movie. -
Quote:As I've said (so as not to appear as a fanboy of Sucker Punch with me defending it so), I thought the brothel sequences tied well to what was actually going on in the mental institution. It's the dance sequences that felt disjointed (as imaginative and awesome as they were), only in the kitchen scene are we given a glympse of how it interconnects with reality, however even then when you look back at all the other dance sequences its hard to see any such connection.Originally Posted by Lothic
As I said eariler I personally don't care how much (or little) Snyder "borrowed" from other sources.
All I know is that whatever he did to produce Sucker Punch didn't work out too well.
I'm not knocking Snyder's flare for the visual (it's what he's obviously great at), just his writing, especially when better similar works like Pan's Labrynth exist. With this I'm actually looking foreward to his Superman due to the fact that it's Nolan and Goyer who wrote it. -
Quote:So Snyder talking about being influenced by Brazil is somehow different from Alan Moore listing 1984 as an influence for V for Vendetta?Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
No, Snyder specifically talks about his inspiration for Sucker Punch from Brazil, which implies a deeper creative link, even though there's patently none. (And if there's any film director out there today adapting comics who's less concerned with "anxiety of influence", I'd like to know, if only to avoid their work.)
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Quote:The brothel was analgous to how the staff of the institution was using the girls. It started with the tour of facilities, when Rocket was telling Baby Doll how things work around there..and illustrated by the staff portrayed as the customers of the brothel.Originally Posted by Frostbiter
She creates a second reality to escape the mental institution, although why she chooses a brothel is beyond me. Then she has to create a third reality to escape the realities of the second reality. Lobotomy indeed.
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Quote:Isn't the term "influence" what people on this thread is equating to "ripping off"..or..err..."knocking off"?Originally Posted by Lothic
"1984" is one of the most famous literary examples of a dystopian future where the government has crushed individual freedom. Basically ANY movie or book since that has had anything to do with a "big oppressive government" can cite 1984 as an influence. Heck, even Star Trek has done episodes related to it.
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Quote:In his Afterword to the "graphic novel" of V for Vendetta, Alan Moore gives a long list of influences, and 1984 heads the list.Originally Posted by Cass_
Well that's because it isn't, 1984 is about the futility of resistance to a facist dictatorship as a warning never to let it come to pass. V is espousing the idea that resistance is the only option.
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Quote:But saying Snyder rips off Gilliam is like saying Moore's V rips off 1984 (the movie version was more blatant at it). Sucker Punch and Brazil are two completely different movies.Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
I'm being especially harsh on Snyder because he's made such claims before without backing them up in his movies.
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Quote:I'm over 40. Maybe it's cause I'm constantly surrounded by people in the 18 to 25 year old bracket at work, but the only thing to me that gave off the Lolita vibe was Baby Doll's outfit. The girls looked and acted like they were in their 20's to me.Originally Posted by Agonus
Getting back to the movie, this reminds me of when I about choked when Baby Doll was said to be 20. Maaaybe it's just me, but she sure as hell doesn't look that old. And my friend, who liked the movie, agreed with that to the point that he was put off by the Lolita vibe of the main girls.
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Quote:Yeah, they didn't get to Lora in the movie, but during a promotional (at Wondercon) they showed that Lora is now married to Alan Bradley, Cindy Morgan even showed up with Bruce Boxleitner to reprise her role.Originally Posted by Lothic
About the only part of the story I'd want to see is an explanation of what happened to Lora/Yori.
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I saw the movie last night and I came out with mixed feelings. I'm glad I payed extra to see it in IMAX as the fantasy dance visuals were just breathtaking, and the fight scenes nothing short of awesome. However, I did wish Babydoll's real and imaginary world tied in better to the "dance" scenes, we only got a short glimpse of that in the kitchen.
The imagined club tied better to the real world that Babydoll found herself in, she saw how the girls were used by the staff of the asylum, and seeing it as a bordello where the customers were the staff was appropriate and accurate. I liked that when you see first see the girls in the real world stage, they weren't made up or as attractive as they were in Babydoll's imagination, but when her fantasies ramp up, you see the girls of the three worlds merge more and more.
All in all I liked what I saw, but when me an my friends were leaving theater, though we praised highly the visuals,we also talked alot about was how the movie could have been cut better. -
TRON to me, has always been a video game movie.
I liked how in the first TRON, all the games were very 2D in scope representative of the type of games of the time: Pong, Breakout, Snake, BattleZone.
The second movie, had more 3D updates of the same games, representing the Nintendo Game Cube, XBox and PS2 eras, as well as added a Star Fox shooter type game.
I hope in the third movie, we could see current gen games represented. -
Quote:Sorry, but this has always been the definitive Captain America theme.Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
I may be dating myself, but every time I think of Captain America movies, I think of this theme song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exLO3zKa69Q
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Quote:Los Angeles has never had an impressive skyline.Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
If I were adapting Akira for a US setting, the logical place would be Los Angeles, which has not only an impressive skyline surrounded by urban sprawl, but also a vulnerability to earthquakes. Los Angeles also has the advantage of tapping into West Coast biker culture for an analog for Kaneda's, something that New York City just doesn't have to the same degree.
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Quote:Now, I remember when she was a librarian, in the Brady Kid's Cartoon (1972)Originally Posted by Ironik
Let's look it up; here's all I can find readily:
Amazon princess -- not sure what that job entailed
1960s comics -- boutique owner
1974 TV movie -- secretary to Steve Trevor
1975 TV series -- First Class Petty Officer Yeoman in the Navy
1976 TV series -- an agent with the Inter-Agency Defense Command (IADC), a CIA-like organization
1980s comics -- ambassador from Themyscira
Golden Age 1942 - Army Nurse after buying identity from the Army Nurse named Diana Prince, but quickly became the secretary of Col. Phil Darnell. When the Wonder Woman tv series began, DC retconed her to become the WAVES secretary of Major Steve Trevor (like in the series).
Silver/Bronze age had a lot of retcons of her being a nurse and then secretary or a military inteligence agent. Then in the 1960's she became a boutique owner, then a UN translator, then guide, then as agent for the UN Crisis Bureau. She also did a short stint as a NASA astronaut, before going back to work at the UN, then moved on to become an agent for the Pentagon's Special Assignments Bureau.
Post Crisis, she did a few jobs while undercover as Diana Prince (i.e. at the Gateway City Museum and Taco Whiz) but mainly kept the identity Diana of Themyscira, but after a time she again became a government agent, this time for the Department of Metahuman Affairs. -
Quote:By the title alone, the only person that needs to be Japanese is Akira.Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
As was pointed out earlier in this thread, even the title presents a challenge for a US version.
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Quote:Usually, she works as an operative for some military or government agency. However, she was originally an Army nurse and then an Army secretary. She was also a UN translator and once owned a boutique in New York, and I seem to remember one cartoon had her as a librarian.Originally Posted by Arnabas
Wrong universe.
I have to admit though, that I am not sure what jobs she has held.