Infini
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Posts
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Quote:Use the mace option with the long blades (don't remember the name). Predators get some pretty cool stuff. I could definitely see them eventually creating an all-in-one weapon. Also you can get Web Cocoon for their net that cinches down on the prey.Originally Posted by Gaspard
Yeah I'd say night widows as well, but if it has to be a soldier, then I'd say bane.
Funny because I thought of making a predator-themed costume as well, the Surveilance and Cloacking give the branch a pretty Predatory feel. If you can perceive the mace as a predator javelin, you're good to go son. lol -
Quote:1 - Hibernate gives you a time out when the debuffs hit. None of the other tanker sets give you a 30s gap in the fight in order compose yourself. Once you wake up from your nap, immediately pop EA to drain their end (works well if you have some endmod in your slotting) and get back to it.Originally Posted by tgunlien
I do like Ice for a couple reasons. 1st I enjoy the graphics. Second, with chilling embrace it grabs aggro fast and the radius is bigger than most other taunt auras (10 vs 8). Also there is the 100% debuff resistance to recharge and speed.
That being said, I think the set has more holes in it's protection than others do.
1) Less defense debuff resistance than other defensive based sets. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here but my Mid's says you can get about 51.9%. That helps but with high recharge I believe shield defense can cap it and so can SR (coming to tanks now?). By comparison, invulnerability gets 50% but has more resists to fall back on.
2) Defensive Holes. Psionic, Somewhat to Fire. Fire gets a bit of defense through Energy Absorption and you get 32% resistance but a high defense would be a lot better. You can probably cap it with IOs with some work but psionic would be a lot harder. Shields and SR have positional defense with no such holes. Note: this is only a problem for attacks that are purely fire or purely psionic.
3) High Accuracy Mobs. As touched on earlier in the thread the devs have made some changes so high defense isn't quite the "I win" button it used to be. Devouring Earth was brought up as one example earlier. This is a problem any defensive set will have to deal with. There are some ways to manage it, like killing the little buff plants first but it's something you need to be aware of.
Note that Chilling embrace adds some extra mitigation through debuffs but that would be limited to up to 10 targets in it's range and the effect reduced if you are fighting higher level enemies. At the very least, I feel that Ice needs a boost to the defense debuff resistance. Without that defense you're a sitting duck.
In general I'd recommend picking up either siphon life from dark melee or aid self from power pools for some healing. One problem with using aid self is that some debuffs seem to interrupt it instantly so even if you slot it for interrupt reduction you will fail to get it off.
2 - Dmg debuffs are your friend! CE+DN is 35% debuff, which alone is pretty significant. Add in Void Radial Judgement and Diamagnetic Interface for more debuffing goodness. Getting fire/psi defense is good and all, but more hp/regen/rech is even better, IMO.
3 - In the case of DE, herd them away from the scary Quartz. Most other high acc mobs are easily dealt with. Nemesis, if not killed all within a short window, can become far more problematic. But again, depending on the situation, you can just take a nap through most of the bad stuff. -
I'd go with a blaster or corruptor. I'm thinking something /kin corr. What all do you plan on duoing?
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Claws/Nin/Weapons would be good for concept. If you wanted to do an SoA, though, Banes would be good. Just because we always see Predators with lethal weapons doesn't mean there isn't one out there that prefers a spiked mace. Surveillance + Poisonous Ray would be good for the shoulder cannon + targetting lasers (you could use another mace blast, but they suck compared to the other attacks).
An Energy/Dev/Munitions blaster could work, too, for a ranged Predator. -
Quote:Darkest Night alleviates a lot of psi and rularuu worries. Herding DE away from Quartz fixes them, too. Ice Armor loves herding.Originally Posted by The_Spad_EU
As much as I love my Ice Tank, Psi damage, DE Quartz' and Rularuu still kick my **** on a regular basis.
This. However, once you tack on tough/weave it becomes a huge end hog. Even more so if you use DN. Cardiac and properly slotted EA (with a high recharge build) fixes this for the most part.Quote:Originally Posted by New Dawn
Ice Armour was one of the few tankers that could be played staminaless. Energy Absorption for end rec. -
Welcome back and to the forums!
To get the bonuses for Set IOs you have to slot IOs from the same set into the same power. You can't use duplicate IOs in the same power mind you (so no Crushing Impact: Acc/Dmg more than once in a power). You have to use each piece.
If you're looking at Mids the little info window will tell you what bonuses you'll get for however many pieces of the set you've slotted. In game, hovering you mouse over the IO will do the same.
There is a method of using set IOs to enhance your build on a more limited budget, which is called Frankenslotting. This entails that you mix/match multiple aspect set IOs (acc/dmg/end/rech for example) with common IOs in order to maximize the potential of your powers.
Since you've been away for so long I'm going to assume you don't have billions of influence and would recommend frankenslotting to get you back into the game. As fas as slotting your Inv/SS there are some other threads in the forum discussing it. Top end builds focus on softcapping s/l/e/n defense, if not also f/c (or close to it) while also shooting for extra global recharge to get dull pain up faster.
If you don't have Mids yet, highly recommended you get it as it is a great tool. -
The defense you get from the protector bots is 7.5% base and ~11% with ED capped slotting. The build I've made for my own bots/traps softcaps myself to all 3 positions with their bubble and then the T1 and T3 bots are also softcapped. The protectors, meanwhile, hover around 34% since they don't get double bubbles like the others (you don't either).
Edit: Also, while you have to do the math manually, you can get the numbers from slotting the protectors with defense. I would start a new build for a night widow and pick Foresight and then slot it. It also has a 7.5% base defense so the results from slotting will be the same. -
Quote:As with any defense-based set, it has its ups and downs due to the RNG. On SOs, it is very decent and only gets better with IO frankenslotting and a full IO set build. Secondary also plays a part. But basically, it's very easy to softcap s/l/e/n defense, be 100% resistant to slows, and build for enough recharge to get Hoarfrost perma and have EA up in under 20 seconds, making it a sapping tool if you slot it well.Originally Posted by That_Ninja
Title says it all. I always been meaning to make an ice tanker, but never got around to it.
Do you have any ideas of what combo you'd like to play? There are a few threads already discussing Ice/Elec, Ice/Kin, and Ice/Ice (I play Ice/Ice/Soul). After that, what all do you want to do with this tank? -
If you're going for a ranged playstyle and using hover, I recommend going for all range defense. May or may not be easier to build for, but would be far more effective.
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Quote:Ice Armor is far from being a horrible team tank. Saying that it 'just plain sucks' means you're probably doing it wrong. I play lead tank on my Icer for teams all the time and have tanked all of the content in the game (except a hami raid) successfully. Some stuff needed a couple tries or creativity, admittedly.Originally Posted by Scirion
Day three of me trying to post in this topic, with no effect yet. Maybe it will work this time... >.>
First off, I'll be the voice of difference, and say that for an Ice/Elec Tank, Lightning Clap is your friend. Under one condition. You *must* take Mu Mastery. Mu Mastery transforms Lightning Clap from a worthless power you would be better off NOT taking into an excellent mitigation tool. Mu Mastery is the only AoE Immobilize I could come up with that prevents knockback. Lightning Clap -Knockback = PBAoE Stun. WIN! Next, if you're going to take Icicles (which you should) take it early. Damage toggles are your friend. Slot it like I did in my build (below), and you'll be fine. Hibernate is a one-slot-wonder. Throw a basic Heal IO in, and you'll be fine. (I say that, because I've actually died from waiting too long to hit Hibernate while taking DoT) EA really should be six-slotted for Defense/Recharge. Side note that I meant to mention first... If you are intending to be a "team tank"... I'll be honest, you picked the wrong set. One thing I've learned in my time playing mine is that in all reality, Ice Armor just plain sucks for teaming. It basically relies on EA and CE for survival, and in the Incarnate age, spawns are dead long before you can get the real effects of either of those powers, unless you leave a small trail of aggro behind you as you rush to get to the next mob before the next person with Judgement up obliterates it. That being said... If you are soloing, it's nigh invulnerable. Seriously. EA, CE, Hibernate, and extra mitigation in stun/KB from Electric Melee, and you will have a hard time dying. Throw the Alpha slot on top of that, and you're doing even better.
I can't really say a whole lot more that hasn't already been covered, so... Here's the build I'm using. You may notice that I built for Fire Defense/Resistance, along with Recharge/MaxHP. This fills the main gap in Ice (outside of Psi, but I basically ignore Psi on all of my tanks), along with giving you the two most important attributes for Ice Armor. More EA, and more HP. Plus, more Lightning Clap. ^.^
EA needs a balance of def/rech and endmod to get the most out of it. Sure without endmod, EA is still great - when surrounded my mobs. Once you start tanking fewer hard targets you'll suffer greatly from the lack of net endurace you'll get (+end - endcost of using it).
Before you can softcap it, Ice does rely on EA to hit the softcap. Relying on CE for survival, is incorrect. CE is the taunt aura so it is necessary to use it if you want to keep aggro (and it does this oh so well). It just gives you the side benefits of slow, -rech, and -dmg to help with your survival - not the other way around.
Ice thrives off herding and being at the aggro cap constantly. Even in the iTrials you should be the first into the middle of a spawn and immediately fire off EA to get the defense and then launch any AoE attacks you have. Your goal is to keep the baddies from shooting your team and if you do that without getting the 'full effects' of EA and CE, then you still fulfilled that goal.
Side note - for all of that fire resist you slotted for you could have gotten even more hp/regen/rech into the build. This would have been more beneficial to you since your hoarfrost is underslotted. -
Aaaaah I just realized the AoE shields now. Now I want to start working on my dem/therm again. Think I left her at level 32 or so. Yum!
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Quote:Both confuse powers in mind/ are the 'MVPs' of the set. Confuse will let you make your enemies fight with you and recharges much, much faster than MC. Really you should have Mes, Dom, Confuse, and MH by level 10. Those will cover your mez needs until you pick up Terrify in the 20s. You 'can' take/use TD but as I said before, it is a skippable power.Originally Posted by Raeda
I definitly intend to get mass confusion when it's available but I was debating whether or not to pick up the single one.
So far i'm set at +1 my level and have only just realised I can have myself getting mobs enough for more than one hero when solo
Right now though I get about 2-4 of yellow/orange/red. As i'm only level 10 the only mass power I have is hypno so it kinda goes:-
Mass Hypno
sleep mob 1 (usually the biggest)
hold mob 3/4 (the weakest)
Sleep mob 2
hold 3/4
Beat up the held while refreshing sleep as needed and whittle them down
I may not be the quickest but that's ok because i'm enjoying myself too much to care.
I might invest in the swords since I think I can get a respec at 24 so if I don't like them I can get rid then.
My Dom is on hold for now though while i've been trying a hero defender (I really wanted to try mission architech and my Dom is praetorian)
And yes you can run the Respec trials starting at level 24, so feel free to try things out however you see fit. :-) -
If you want to stay at range while you're starting out, go for it. Melee attacks are typically stronger for doms, though. Mind is a very safe primary to use. Mesmerize can sleep bosses with 1 shot. So Mesmerize bosses, confuse buff/debuff mobs, and hold/kill whatever else is there. As long as you don't try to solo beyond your limit (like team size 3-4 and up) you should be pretty safe to use melee attacks and everything will be locked down.
Slot Mesmerize as a damage power instead of sleep as it's base duration is ridiculous. Abuse the crap out of Confuse, too. I like to slap a mob with Mass Hypno, confuse at least half of them, then rush in to attack. Once you get Terrify, this will be your opener after you've slept them and are ready to attack and don't have Total Dom or Mass Conf up.
Mesmerize, Levitate, Telekineses, and Total Domination are skippable powers. Between Mes and Lev I think it's one or the other. I prefer Mes because I like to sleep multiple AVs and Mes lets me cover misses. Telekinesis takes some practice to use properly and Total Domination has a shorter duration compared to your other AoE mezzes. -
I have a Km/regen that recently hit 40 and she's been a blast to play.
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Quote:Core branch is heal/+hp. Radial is heal/regen. Radial is awesome!Originally Posted by Organicide
Oh snap. I was thinking of going Ageless for the +Recharge/+End/+Debuff resist. What does Rebirth offer? +Regen?
Edit: For def debuffs, you have hibernate :-) shack up and wait it out lol -
Quote:Since a majority of fire attacks have another type attached to them (smashing), you should be ok. Attacks like Incinerate, however, could pose problems. Once you get incarnate slots open and slotted, though, it gets better. Rebirth FTW!Originally Posted by Organicide
Thanks Infini,
I'll de flook into those membranes for EA. Forgot to think they could be slotted in there. I'm a little concerned about losing my F/C defense, well, the Fire portion anyway. THe argument that my -dmg should fill in for it could be valid though. I'll rework the build a touch and post it here.
Thanks. -
Could use a little improvement.
Drop some of your E/N defense bonuses in order to get a little more regen. I try to shoot for at least 1% hp/sec on defense toons or ones that don't have a reliable heal (Ice/ is both lol).
You can also get away with losing your F/C defense (I've never had a problem), especially with the amount of -dmg you'll be able to achieve.
Minor thing - swap the recharge in Hibernate for a heal. Since hibernate has that stupid nophase rule attached to it, it doesn't matter how much recharge you put into it. You're global recharge + hasten should have it up when you need it and it's not like you have to worry about slows. Also, recommend dropping 1-2 of the LotGs in EA for Membranes.
Just to give you an idea for shuffling some slots around (without me having to post a build). Keep FA, GA, and Weave slotted as you have. Permafrost and CJ are good, too, though I would like to see a kismet: tohit in there, also. Then 4 slot tough with reactive armors. At this point you should be hovering over ~42.5% defense to s/l/e/n. From there you just need 2 attack sets to get that last little bit. 1 set of Kinetic Combat and 1 of Eradication will do the job.
As for your concerns for the iTrials. Starting at 45-47% defense and using saturated EA will bump you up to ~55%. Keeping this up will get you through the trials. It will still be rough starting out with just the Alpha level shift but once you get the other 2 it will be smooth sailing. -
Quote:Yes you're still softcapped. I was just pointing out that you could do it differently in order to get more slots into other powers, like Ice Storm. Pure fire, psi, and toxic will be your biggest issues. If you can go redside and pick up DN it'll plug up that hole a bit. 35% -dmg when stacked with CE isn't anything to scoff at.Originally Posted by FederalAgent
Wow. I'm pretty glad I asked! The biggest shame is that by trying to build on my own after about three years away from the game is that not only did I apparently make a huge mess of it but I wasted millions and millions of inf!
I'm really pleased to hear that the toon is salvageable, however.
As I mentioned I'm not a mids guy, but I'm still seeing my def capped for S/L/E/N. Aside from pure psi attacks, shouldn't I be more or less alright? Is it just that Aracnos, as was said already, has substantial to-hit buffs? -
Quote:Use 2 cytos in weave/maneuvers and don't toggle on tough. Will it balance out with the lack of endmod in EA? Not sure...Originally Posted by Santa_Laws
I already have all of those enhancements and am not going to sell them or invest in tons of respecs to change those.
So with that in mind, what can I improve?
EDIT: And pack blues for tanking AVs without extra mobs. -
Quote:About to say... Have never had a problem with anything while exemplared on my 50s with higher level IOs. >.> Just don't have the bonuses. :::shrug:::Originally Posted by Nihilii
I love how everytime GavinRuneblade starts a post with a quote and "FALSE", everything he says after that is wrong.
Maybe this is some kind of japanese reading thing and you're supposed to read from bottom to top.
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Still think you can do even better with less expense. >.>
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ClawsandEffect got most of it. Never ideal to use positional bonuses to softcap typed defense unless you've already exhausted possibilities of getting typed defense bonuses. According to mids (unless it imported, wrong) you are softcapped without EA, but the sacrifices in slotting to get that defense isn't worth it.
Overall your build could use work on slotting and which sets to use. You can get a bit more hp/regen and a lot more recharge. I tossed a build together for you. It's based off of my own Ice/Ice/Soul's build, which I greatly recommend going red and getting Darkest Night.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Science Tanker
Primary Power Set: Ice Armor
Secondary Power Set: Electrical Melee
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Arctic Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Hoarfrost -- Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(9), Dct'dW-Rchg(21), Dct'dW-Heal(37), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(50)
Level 1: Charged Brawl -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Acc-I(43)
Level 2: Havoc Punch -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(7), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(34), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 4: Jacobs Ladder -- Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Erad-Dmg(5), Erad-Acc/Rchg(34), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 6: Wet Ice -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Chilling Embrace -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Frozen Armor -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(11), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(11), LkGmblr-Def(33)
Level 12: Icicles -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(13), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(13), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(23)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(15), RechRdx-I(15)
Level 16: Thunder Strike -- Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(17), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), Oblit-Dmg(31), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(40), FrcFbk-Rechg%(46)
Level 18: Glacial Armor -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(19), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(19), LkGmblr-Def(33)
Level 20: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 22: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(23), RctvArm-ResDam(36), RctvArm-EndRdx(37)
Level 24: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(25), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(25), GftotA-Def(33)
Level 26: Energy Absorption -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), HO:Membr(27), HO:Membr(27), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(31), P'Shift-EndMod(45), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(50)
Level 28: Chain Induction -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(31), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Ksmt-ToHit+(37)
Level 32: Hibernate -- Heal-I(A)
Level 35: Build Up -- GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(36), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(36)
Level 38: Lightning Rod -- Oblit-Acc/Rchg(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Dmg(40)
Level 41: Block of Ice -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(42), Decim-Build%(45)
Level 44: Shiver -- Acc-I(A)
Level 47: Ice Storm -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(48), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dam%(50)
Level 49: Permafrost -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(21), Mrcl-Rcvry+(45), Mrcl-Heal(46)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(9), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(46)
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Quote:75-85% (I can never remember the exact number) is where you start to see permadom but you have to hound over hasten/dom to use them immediately when they've recharged. Once you go over that (90%) you give yourself some much needed leeway (read: comfortably maintain as I said in my other post) as to when you can use those clicks.Originally Posted by goesto
Good info for me also since I´m in the same situation as the OP.
I guess mids is also a bit off since when I´m working on my build I it says that I´ve topped off my +recharge at about 80%
The lower levels of recharge have problems from lag or you getting caught up in attacking. In mids, the biggest inaccuracy is hasten's recharge in situations where its recharge is still longer than it's duration. Mids will say 128s with hasten running, but once hasten drops at 120s, you're going to get several seconds added to that 128s.
Obviously, the more recharge you get the smaller the gap becomes until you cross into perma-hasten territory. -
Quote:Well, only if you want your bonuses while exemplared. Lower level content is pretty easy without IOs and without your bonuses, your powers are still slotted more optimally than they would be on pure SOs. Getting those lowbie IOs can be a huge pain, though. Both in time and Inf investment.Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
Also, with IOs higher level isn't always better. If you run lower level taskforces or exemp down to play with friends, you definitely want to get lower than level 50 IOs.
That said, one of my long term projects is to have my Ice tank kitted out (pretty much the same build, just for exemplaring) for lowbie TFs and the same with my mind/psi dom (hello perma-dom at level 25). Both are 2nd/3rd builds, of course. -
2 slots? get both of the Resist aura IOs to further increase Sing's survivability. Depending on your secondary you could go with the 2 defense auras, instead. An extra 20% resist or 10% defense could go a long way.