Ice Knight

Sad to see you go LH. Best of luck and thanks for the last 2 years.

Star Strider Forces Registry
Name: Ice Knight
Global Contact: @Ice Knight
Level of Classification: 50 Tanker
Origin: Magic
Super Rank & Super Group: Reaper (Leader) - The Re'quiem

That was most excellent. Very awesome work.

I will be updating the guides list in the next few days. If anyone has a new guide or an update post a link for it so i can add it.



Ice

Absolutly Fantastic. This is gonna be great.

LOL awesome, April 1st. That was creative and worth a few laughs.

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Tanks didn't want DA / DM.



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We didn't want DA, thats news to me.

Well Played. That was hilarious.

Excellent guide, very impressive and very helpful.

LOL this thread is great. A fun read.

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In conclusion, while I disagree with many points in this guide I understand were they come from. The one thing I ask everyone reading this guide to understand. Experiences differ from person to person and the best answer is to take all opinions and opinion laced facts with a grain of salt. Let your own experiences determine your actions not someone else’s

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Your sensible and polite mannerisms and cogent point have no place here, sir.

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Probably not however thats the way I am

I am not going to argue the view points expressed here. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, as am I. However there is a difference between facts and facts laced with opinions. Generally any fact can be used by anyone to support or refute a statement. This guide is no different in my opinion. If facts were stated without opinions then that would leave it to the reader to generate their own opinions of what they perceive the facts are. However this guide was laced with opinions which now sets up 3 camps of posts. Those that support, those that oppose and those that are on the fence.


Personally I do not like the opinions in the guide however I can see how they are generated and at times have come to similar conclusions in my own time of analyzing Dark Armor. However those early conclusions were not accounting for DA's strengths. Which for a Melee AT are somewhat unique. While most Brute sets have one or two additional forms of Damage Mitigation besides Resistance and or Defense, Dark Armor has 5.

Let’s lay out the examples.

Electric Armor
Resistance
Endurance Drain
Damage

Energy Aura
Defense
Resistance
Endurance Drain

Fiery Aura
Resistance
Heal
Endurance Drain
Damage

Stone Armor
Resistance
Defense
Regeneration
Heal
Damage

WillPower
Defense
Resistance
Endurance Management
Regeneration

Invuln
Resistance
Defense
Heal

Dark Armor
Resistance
Defense
Stun
Fear
Heal
To Hit - Debuff
Damage

Dark Armor has 5 forms of additional damage mitigation. Considering these additional forms is why DA does not have the Strait up Resistance or Defense that other sets have. However that does not make DA easier to play. Believe it or not in my opinion DA is what I consider an Intelligence set. Something that requires multitasking and critical thinking. The prime example is not running every toggle every time. Each situation has different ways that it can be handled. The best way to build fury is to run into a large group without OG or CoF running, hit Dark Regen and once you are close to 75% Fury turn on OG and go to work. Playing aggressive like any other Brute will keep the fury up. With the controls going you take 75% of the spawns out of the fight. I do not know any other set that can do that being a Melee AT.

Now that fact that I consider DA an intelligence set does not mean I am trying to insult anyone however its all about how each person wants to play. DA takes time and effort to understand and allot of trial and error however once mastered it is in my opinion one of the best experiences anyone can have playing COV.


One point I can also make for DA is the primary pairings. Some Primaries mesh well with DA and can generate a different experience then what someone else may have. From my experience while Stone Melee is a serious endurance issue the mitigation it offers in conjunction with DA can not be matched period. OG+Fault = Perma Stunned Mobs. 100% Mitigation. That’s about as good as it gets.

In conclusion, while I disagree with many points in this guide I understand were they come from. The one thing I ask everyone reading this guide to understand. Experiences differ from person to person and the best answer is to take all opinions and opinion laced facts with a grain of salt. Let your own experiences determine your actions not someone else’s.

*edited in Invuln, I missed it*

I believe one thing that’s under rated is layered mitigation. Willpower has shown how well combining all 3 points of mitigation work. (Regeneration/Resistance/Defense) Granted I am speaking from my experiences on my WP Tank.

As for adding Weave to SR, that’s a huge boost. Something I notice now that I do plenty of flashback missions is that when I am doing Level 35 to 39 Arc's I have to play far safer then my normal play at 50. The key reasons are missing set bonuses however the real major reason is missing Weave. Once I am doing 40 to 45 Arc's I can almost work at my normal pace and really not watch my health bar. Obviously at 50 with all my bonuses its back to mass destruction with no worry. 50% Melee/AOE/Ranged defenses are fun.

On to Dark Armor, actually Weave would make a difference depending on slotting and power selection. Cloak of Darkness has a Defense Bonus built into it at 3.75 % to All and is also positional Defense. That stacks with Weave and Melee/Ranged/AOE set bonuses. Considering that a slotted Weave, COD a Steadfast Def/Res IO and 1 slotted CJ with a Defense IO actually gets you to 17% Defense to all before adding in set bonuses. Something I have done on my DA Brute is add 13 % Positional Defenses to Melee/AOE/Ranged to get to or close to 30% Defense. That layered with DA's resistances and Dark Regeneration its very unkillable. At least in a PvE setting.


As for Regen I can not speak about it since I do not have any.


For Invuln, Adding Weave the Steadfast IO and CJ can significantly alter your experience with Exotic Damaging mobs. Consider starting with 1 Enemy with 18.52 % Defense, that will scale up to 34.59 % Defense with 10 in Melee and I am not even accounting for Tough Hide because I am trying to remember what the Inv Scrapper Def Debuff is from Unyielding, I am thinking 3.75 % however I could of swore it was 2.5 %. Anyway at this point I consider Tough Hide to cancel out the Def Debuff of Unyielding.

You are correct, we had it set up for that one on the last one, except for the non purge request which was 50/50 on the other server forums. The request is in for a sticky and non forum purge mark. I would assume by the end of today it should be fixed.

Introducing the P.E.R.C. ! (Repost FTW, Aren't Forum Purges Fun)

The Player Event Resource Committee is a collection of players from every server that are dedicated to enhancing the City of Heroes/Villains experience by helping plan, support, and run different projects on a server and game-wide level.

Our shared goal is to help complement our existing community projects through events like contests, games, badge tours, and the exploration of both new and existing game content.

So if you have an idea you would like to submit, need help with the planning or promotion of an event, or might be interested in applying to the committee itself; please click on the link below. After you have been redirected to our site, please click on "New User" at the top of the page to register. You will be asked to fill out a very short questionaire letting us know in what way(s) we can help you. Please be as descriptive as you're able to; the more we know, the better we can serve you.

Thank you in advance for allowing us to assist with your event planning needs.

Click here to request help on a community event, post your event on our calendar, or to share creative event ideas!

I will be updating the guides in the next 24-48 hours, Please post any guide updates and or new guides please. I will look thru the Guides section also.

Thanks
Ice

Awesome, Manticore is back!!

Exactly, the activation time is what kills GIS.

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I am really sorry I couldn't get you all the changes the set needs.

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First, let me echo what your fellow players have said -- you have nothing to be sorry about.

Ice Melee does well at all power levels -- it's never the worst, and never the best. Datamining shows that the points it does worst is in the 38-45 range, which is where the Tier 9 power normally comes into it's own. Since Ice Melee players typically ignore their Tier 9, this can be seen as the cause.

So, why does Frozen Aura get ignored? There've been many threads on this here in the forums, the gist of which is that a PBAoE SLEEP doesn't add anything to a Tankers Repertoire. Since any Aura power interrupts Sleep effects, and Tankers essentially *must* run auras to fulfill their roll, it is counterproductive.

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_Castle_ Thanks for the response, I want to outline a point on Frozen Aura. Since it is a sleep it makes it a real issue to use effectively in its current incarnation. I am sure you have read Ice Melee 1, 2 and 3 and have seen the boatload of suggestions that have been made. The only Tanker that can benefit from FA in its current form is an Inv/Ice Melee tank which is the rarest Tanker combination.


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So, what's the solution? Currently, there isn't one. Tankers, as a whole, do better than average, and this includes Ice Melee. My focus is on those AT's who, as a group, underperform. I may be able to take some time to make some changes during the I11 beta, or afterwards, but it entirely depends on how things are going. No promises!

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I would love to see a positive change to Frozen Aura and I know 99 % of Ice Melee Tanks would appreciate it. Heck I am happy that its being considered. Thanks for your response on this matter.


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Goes against everything I've seen in the game. I've seen /Stone tankers out control me, and most every other tanker secondary can out-damage me. Based on my experiences in the game, I don't get how the above is true at all. The mathematical experiments we've run in versions of Tundara's thread don't back it up either.

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The problem with most mathematical experiments I see here in the forums is that they are measuring the extremities of performance. The datamining I do shows how players are actually performing in the "reality" of the game. The two are related, but there is often a vast gulf between what a set is capable of and what it is typically asked to do in gameplay.

Edit: Also, the quote you referred to is across all AT/Powerset combinations. */Ice outperforms many other AT/Powerset combinations.

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I want to counter point this thought with one of my own. Fault can effect 10 enemies, knock them down and stun minions. it has a 50 % chance to Stun Lt's. Now it has a tohit check and it isn’t constant. Fault needs to be re applied more often the Ice patch. However Ice Patch is constant at least for 30 seconds and will knock anyone down. However Ice Patch can only effect 5 Enemies. I would favor Fault just because of the fact its mobility control and has extra secondary effects.

Seismic Smash has a hold built into it which is a Magnitude 4 hold. That will hold a boss, lets not forget the supreme damage it drops also. Comparing this to Freezing Touch is not much of a comparison. Freezing Touch is a mag 3 hold and recharges in 16 seconds, just 4 seconds sooner then Seismic Smash. Plus FT is a DOT which is always a rough deal when compared to Seismic Smash which hits in one shot.

Comparing Tremor to Frozen Aura is a raw deal. On paper Frozen Aura is an outstanding power, unfortunately as we all learn, what we see on paper and what our experiences tell us are 2 different things. FA will out control darn near anything except Glacier and other PBAoE holds that Controllers have however as long as nothing wakes them up. The real scenario is FA is near useless and Tremor at least gives damage and some control with the knock back.


At the end of the day were does this leave us, Stone can have better control and in the right hands can be outright an evil control set while Ice Melee requires the patience of a saint and the right hands to make the set beneficial and enjoyable. Ice Melee has good control however can be outshined in its own AT. Adjusting Frozen Aura can go a long way to resolving many of these issues.

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*sigh*

I go away for just a few days, and look what I come back too. The thread's buried several pages down. No talking, discussion, bouncing ideas, just the silence of defeat.

You know what, I think this is it. I'm done with Ice Melee. It seems like without a constant whip the other Ice Melee tanks are content to sit silent. I'm very disappointed. For months I tried to spur discussion, keep thread after thread going. I even did something I knew so little about and am terrible at; Did the Math and Crunched Numbers. Yes, as often as not I goofed, didn't carry a decimal point, and got it wrong. But hey, I friggin dropped out of remedial math for a reason. Still, I pushed onwards even when I was giving myself migraines trying to figure out how to balance the set. At least back then I felt like it was worth it and I wasn't alone.


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I hear ya, you can only for so long keep marching to a beat untill the drum goes silent. Momentum is everything. Yes we lost quite a bit of steam and honestly, I have been staring at so many spreadsheets that it all looks the same. Just a blur of the senses. Honestly I have done everything I can do with respects to Ice Melee. I began to feel like I was repeating myself. Then work exploded and other things and here we are. We are frustrated and honestly feel like we have not been heard. There comes a point were you start to think is anyone paying attention or are we just telling each other over and over again how bad everything is for our health. I applaud your persistence on this issue and understand and respect your opinions in the Ice Melee fight. maybe one day our work will have some effect some were.

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So, I just want to thank a few people quickly. Molar_Mauler, Ice_Ember, Ice_Knight, Wonderslug, and of course, Aett_Thorn. Thank you all so much for your support, ideas, and time over all three threads. I wish I could givce all of you a basket of cookies for the help you were back in the golden age of 'Fixing Ice Melee'.



[/ QUOTE ] I like cookies, however you rallied us many times and kept us in the spirit. I thank you for that.

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As for Redlynne, well, I feel really sorry for her. She has put in a ton of effort on her latest ideas and they have been by and large ignored by everyone, myself included. I could claim burn out, but that's no excuse. The least I should have done was really read them and said if I felt she was still on the right track, or if there were grevous flaws. She deserved a lot better then to be largely ignored.



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I agree and I am sorry I have not taken a closer look, honestly I have not had as much time on the forums as I would like.
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To every other Ice Melee tanker out there who has been here for most of Fixing Ice Melee One and Two; :disappointment:


No one person or Otter can do this alone. For a long while I felt I was alone during the final few pages of 2.0 and now when Redlynne needed support I abandoned her. For this, I am deeply sorry. I feel like I've failed not just her, but the entire community. It's only now thinking back over this summer and spring, at all the Fixing Ice Melee threads that it seems like I was in a way the leader the community rallied around. No, I was far from alone and had excellent help (All the people I thanked above). Still, even though my math was weak and I didn't do some of the exhaustive number gathering and crunching, it feels like I was the Mother for the movement. Encourging, pitching in, propping things up when they faltered. Maybe I'm wrong and am just over blowing my role in the threads over the last few months. Maybe.

I guess in a way this is a good-bye thread, though it isn't that really. Afterall, I do still play. I will continue to come to the Tanker forum. But I just can't do -THIS- anymore. I can't pour my heart and soul into the fight and feel like I am alone. That is exactly how I felt at the end of 2.0. So, not good-bye, rather throwing in the towel on the fight.

I am really sorry I couldn't get you all the changes the set needs.

I am sorry.

-Tundara

=. .=

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You have nothign to apoligise for, you did your best and I think for the most part we all did. Unfortunantly, we have no resolve at the moment, taking a break and revisiting this would be a good idea. I wish you the best and I am sure we will cross paths again.

very nice. I have a level 50 Son/Psy and I completly agree with you on your sonic picks. Sonic Cage is somewhat a fun power, its a nice oh crap button on a bad situation and even more fun to lock in a stalker in PvP. However for my STF build it had to go. However awesome guide and a good read.

Level 50 Build



---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
---------------------------------------------
Name: Ice Knight
Level: 50
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Invulnerability
Secondary: Ice Melee
---------------------------------------------
01) Temp InvulnerabilityDmgRes(1)DmgRes(3)DmgRes(3)EndRdx(5)EndRdx(5)
01) Frozen Fists Acc(1)]Dmg(7)Dmg(17)
02) Ice SwordDmg(2)Dmg(7)Dmg(9)Acc(19)Acc(40)EndRdx(50)
04) Dull Pain Rechg(4)Rechg(9)Rechg(11)Heal(13)Heal(15)Heal(19)
06) Combat Jumping EndRdx(6)
08) UnyieldingDmgRes(8)DmgRes(11)DmgRes(13)EndRdx(15)EndRdx(17)
10) SwiftRun(10)
12) BoxingAcc(12)
14) Super Jump Jump(14)
16) Health Heal(16)Heal(43)Heal(46)
18) Invincibility DefBuf(18)DefBuf(23)DefBuf(25)EndRdx(36)EndRdx(36)EndRdx(37)
20) Stamina EndMod(20)EndMod(21)EndMod(21)
22) Ice Patch Rechg(22)Rechg(23)Rechg(37)
24) Tough DmgRes(24)DmgRes(25)DmgRes(27)EndRdx(34)EndRdx(36)EndRdx(37)
26) Build Up Rechg(26)Rechg(27)Rechg(29)
28) Tough Hide DefBuf(28)DefBuf(29)DefBuf(31)
30) Freezing Touch Dmg(30)Dmg(31)Dmg(31)Acc(33)Acc(33)EndRdx(33)
32) Unstoppable Rechg(32)Rechg(34)Rechg(34)
35) Greater Ice Sword Dmg(35)Dmg(39)Dmg(39)Acc(39)Acc(40)EndRdx(40)
38) Aid Other Heal(38)
41) Block of Ice Dmg(41)Dmg(42)Dmg(42)Acc(42)Acc(43)EndRdx(43)
44) Aid Self IntRdx(44)IntRdx(45)Heal(45)Heal(45)Rechg(46)Rechg(46)
47) FrostDmg(47)Dmg(48)Dmg(48)Acc(48)EndRdx(50)EndRdx(50)
49) Resist Physical Damage DmgRes(49)
---------------------------------------------
01) Sprint Empty(1)
01) Brawl Empty(1)
01) Gauntlet Empty(1)
02) RestEmpty(2)
---------------------------------------------

[/list] This is close to my current Build. This is a respect Build so the slots are not in the right places at the right time. Basically you have a very good chance of surviving almost anything thrown at you. The build flows well and generally works decently while exemping. The dual holds are nice for bosses and also sappers. This build does break my 5 slots in Attacks rule however if you have the extra slots then adding a second accuracy will benefit you.

This is a replacement for the Level 50 non IO build in the guide. I had made a mistake on a slotting assignment which was putting 3 slots into Combat Jumping which unless your going to throw IO's in there or want to add some minor Defense 3 slotting it is a bad Idea. Here is the build I would be using if I didnt have IO's.
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Some new information. Well not new but I believe its official. The Impervious Skin Status Resistance was changed and now is worth 7.5% per enhancement but will stack now. Currently in the build you could fit 2 of these in. That would give you 15% status resistance on top of the 20% IO. Basicially instead of 50% as the old number was its 35% total.

Awsome, Edited into the new guides post. The main should be updated soon.

Updated June 26th, 2007
Official Guide Post Editor for the update was Ice_Knight

TANKER GUIDES


This thread is for posting Guide or FAQ links for Tankers. Please create your guides in the "Player Guides" forum (since posts in that section do not roll off) and link the thread here. Also, do not post your guide in this thread - only the link to your guide. For non-Tanker guides, check the master list of all Guides in the Guide to Guides. Also for Issue 9 check out the Inventions System Guides.



Guides appearing here were gleaned from links posted in one of the "Guide to Guides" threads (the Tanker Guide Thread or the Guide to Guides thread in the "Player Guides" forum). Chriffer sifted through the hundreds of individual threads to find the postings. In the future be sure to 1) place your guide in the "Player Guides" forum, nowhere else and 2) post a link to it in a "Guide to Guides" thread to make things work smoothly.



GENERAL
<ul type="square">[*] Taunt Myths (Aett_Thorn) [I8]
[*]Juzam's Tao of Tanking for Beginners [I7]
[*]Tanker Primary Information for Issue 7 (BuffyASummers ) [I7]
[*]So you want to know about Taunt... (Circeus) [I6]

[/list]
INVULNERABILITY
<ul type="square">[*] I9 Inventions Invul/Fire Slotting Guide - Three Builds (gWrath) [I9]
[*] Ice Knight's Inv/Ice Super Psy Inventions Tanker 2.0 (Ice Knight) [I9]
[*] Superman Returns A.K.A. Superman 4.0 (Hero14) [I8]
[*] Invulnerability/EM Guide For The Unhappy Tank (Sister_Andara) [I8]
[*]Tiffany Seville’s Inv/Fire Guide for I7 (Tiffany_Seville) [I7]
[*]INV/SS Tanking in Post-I6 Paragon City (The_Hegemon) [I6]
[*]The SuperTank! Inv/SS/Fly Build (Vox_Populi) [I6]
[*]Guide to Invulnerability: The Basics (Sword) [I6]
[/list]
FIERY AURA
<ul type="square">[*] GladDog's Guide to Making a Fire/EM Tanker ver 3.0(GladDog) [I9]
[*] IO build example: Fire/Fire Tanker (Scrapulous) [I9]
[*]The Red Five I7 Fire / Super Strength Guide (Kyrin) [I7]
[/list]
ICE ARMOR
<ul type="square">[*]Invention based Ice/Ice Tank (Tundara) [I9] [*]Growing an Ice/Ice Tanker (DocSharpe) [I7]
[*]Tanking with an Ice/Em tank (bulkmale) [I7]
[*]Ice/Ice build guide (AettThorn) [I7]
[*]Darth's Guide to Ice/Em Tanks in pvp, v 1.5 (DarthJoe) [I7]
[*]The Living Glacier: Being the Ice Tanker (ccelizic) [I7]
[*]Energy Absorption Calculator &amp; Guide (Circeus) [I7]
[/list]
STONE ARMOR
<ul type="square">[*]Stone/Energy Melee Tanker (_Jets_)[I8]
[*]The Uber Defensive Stone/Fire Tanker (Maurice)[I7]
[*]Ode to Roxstar - A Guide to Stone Tanking (Roxstar) [I7]
[*]Mor'gan's Totally Awesome Guide to Stone/Ice Tanks (Morgy) [I7]
[*]Completely Stoned, Again: The Stone/Stone Guide (EsoKujo) [I7]

[/list]


OLDER GUIDES PRE I6
<ul type="square">[/list]GENERAL

<ul type="square">[*]Tanking for Teams: The Anvil (BlackSly) [I3]
[*]A Guide to Lowbie Tanking and Surviving Spillover (Lycaeus) [I3]
[*]A Beginner's Guide to Tanker Primaries 1.0 (Paradoxe) [I3]
[*]The MinMax Army's Guide to Sustained DPS (da5id) [I3]
[*]Initiating Battle: A Guide For the Large Team Tank (Super) [I2][/list]INVULNERABILITY
<ul type="square">[*]Invulnerability/Super Strength - The "Lasher" (Thors_Mitersaw) [I5]
[*]Weathering the Storm 2.0: An I5 Invulnerability/Super Strength Guide (Iron_Vixen) [I5]
[*]Kara's Watch Out for Self and Survive I5 Build (Invulnerability/Super Strength) (SvZurich) [I5]
[*]Robobot's Guide to I5 Tanking (Invulnerability/Super Strength) (Project_Robobot) [I5]
[*]Immortal-Nite’s Invulnerability/Energy Melee Guide for I4 (ImmortalNite) [I4]
[*]Smersh's Invulnerability/Fire Melee Guide V1.0 (Smersh) [I3]
[*]Invulnerability for Tankers - The Basics (Sword) [I3]
[*]Magnus Star's Invulnerability/Super Strength Build (Magnus_Star) [I3]
[*]How to Build Superman V3.0 &amp; Invulnerability/Super Strength+ Guide (_Havok_) [I3]
[*]The Cuddles Build: Issue 3 Invulnerability/Super Strength (Cuddles) [I3]
[*]Lady Tara's I3 Invulnerable/Super Strength Tanker (Lady_Tara) [I3]
[*]It's Krunch time! Revising Krunch V2 for Issue 3 (Skulker) [I3]
[*]Pulverizor's Invulnerability/Energy Melee Guide (Pulverizor) [I3]
[*]Brick And Mortar - A Post 34, I3, Invulnerability/Energy Melee Build (da5id) [I3]
[*]Invulnerability/Energy Melee Post-Issue 3 (GoodFoo) [I3]
[*]Invulnerability/Battle Axe (Major_Kreissack) [I1][/list]FIERY AURA
<ul type="square">[*]My Fiery Aura/Energy Melee Build Post-I5 (Nfinity) [I5]
[*]Being the Brute Squad - A Look At Fiery Aura/War Mace Tankers (Chalyss) [I4]
[*]Fiery Aura/Fiery Melee Tanking, the Infurno Way (Robotech_Master) [I4]

[*]Fiery Aura/Ice Melee Tanker Guide (Cleat) [I3]
[*]Fiery Aura/Stone Melee Guide (BrimstoneGale) [I3]
[*]Coalfire's Fiery Aura Guide V1.0 (Ebon_Wrath) [I3]
[*]Fiery Aura/Fiery Melee Tank Guide V2.0 (Mephe) [I3]
[*]Spiral's Fiery Aura/Super Strength Tanker Guide (Spiral) [I3]
[*]Fiery Aura, A Fire Tank Primary Guide (Moot_Point) [I2]
[*]Fiery Aura/Ice Melee Tanker Guide V0.8 (Saccade) [I2][/list]ICE ARMOR
<ul type="square">[*]Driving an Ice Armor/Ice Melee Tank with Arctic Ant V1.1 (The_Arctic_Ant) [I4]
[*]Basilisk's Quick Guide to Ice Armor (Basilisk) [I4]
[*]Ice Armor/Energy Melee Guide (Kyrin) [I3]
[*]Dynamo Frost's Ice Armor FAQ (Dynamo Frost) [Pre-I1][/list]STONE ARMOR
<ul type="square">[*]Guide To My Thoughts On Stone Armor (Rexpendable) [I3][/list]
SECONDARIES
<ul type="square">[*]Comprehensive Guide to Tanker Secondaries (docbuzzard) [I4][/list]