Hyperstrike
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Posts
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Quote:So if I get about half a dozen friends to die first, I become nearly invincible?Originally Posted by Jagged
How to Tell If You Are Involved in a Nemesis Plot...
Press hard on your back upper wisdom teeth.
If your face plate suddenly pops open, you have been replaced by a Nemesis Automation.
Do not worry, someone will be along shortly to reset your memory. -
*Wears a shirt*
I was part of Nemesis Plot #3,298,752,982,346
Lord Nemesis will be contacting you about opportunities in your area!
Don't panic! -
Quote:Happy berfday to you!Originally Posted by Sooner
Happy birthday to you!
Happy berfday to you!
INSERT SOMETHING SNARKY!
And something snarky here too!
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Okay, they say a picture is worth a thousand words.
Here's the other 989.
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Quote:Wanting the time off? No. Not odd. People want time off for vacations, holidays, and other forms of recreation right? Why such differentiation for a video game?Originally Posted by joshdex
Maybe true- but kind of an odd way to defend wanting to time off work for a video game event.
Actively arranging the time off so it's okay with your boss and co-workers? Not odd. Again, see vacations, holidays, etc.
Abusing sick call to get the time off? Bad. Regardless of whether it's a vacation, holiday, or a video game. -
Quote:*Points at Memphis Bill*Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Amazing.
I left the thread to go specifically to avoid argument. I state precisely what I'm doing. And somehow I'm starting this for the "express purpose of antagonizing the opposition?"
Really?
So people are reading my mind better than *I* am and finding hidden, dastardly plans and purposes there that even I'm not aware of?
I stated my stance and purpose fairly bluntly and clearly, I thought. Much like I always do. Like I said, I'm tired of arguing over it just to be told that what I like and what I do isn't what I actually like and what I actually do, that I don't actually find useful what I find useful. It seems disappointingly fitting, I suppose, that I'm being accused of the same thing in making this thread by at least one person who should know better.
My stance is very simple. Yes, there's a range of anti-kb sentiment, from "PBAOE" to "You send a single mob flying, I'm kicking you from the team." So just cut short all the arguments. I've been told it's never useful - not with qualifiers, but flat out never. I've been told "Hey, you can just slot for it." So gut it completely, other than as a slotting option.
Like I said, I'm not arguing for it any more. But if it's ever actually done or considered for one set, or even part of one, where it's player controlled, it's not something that should be done halfway. My solution *will end those arguments.* Knockback is gone by default, and slottable by those who want it.
I'll admit to mild curiosity about how much of that slotting and to what degree would be done by the playerbase afterward, but that has nothing to do with the position itself.
No other plans, no other designs, no nefarious schemes, so stop accusing me of having them.
EEEEEEEEEVILLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -
Quote:No, as I note, SOMETIMES it's not an effective strategy. "Often" is a quantitative judgement I didn't in any way make or imply.Originally Posted by EvilGeko
As you note, that's often not an effective strategy and it's never a more effective strategy than KD.
As to it "never" being a more effective strategy. What was that about Sith and absolutes?
If you're a toon who's particularly wrecked by melee-range damage, it behooves you to push enemies outside of melee range. Maybe by blowing them in the direction of the team aggro magnet so he can strip them off you.
No, but the implication is quite strong in your statement through your casual dismissal of the benefits of KB.Quote:Didn't say it was 'useless'.
Yet in other situations (remember, the game isn't the same single situation over and over and over again) it can be more effective.Quote:Just that it can't be used effectively and that it's certainly not as effective as KD in the same situation.
What about on teams where there IS no tank?Quote:I'm glad you've acknowledged that. And very few situations in this game are not, "tank and spank".
Again, simply because YOU cannot doesn't mean there aren't.Quote:In the situations that are not tank and spank, I can think of very few where KB is more effective than KD.
Question. Is a cone attack always preferable to an AoE? Is an ST attack always preferable to a cone attack?Quote:By doing so, as I said, you've reduced a PBAoE into a cone. You must squander the essential nature of the power in order to use it effectively.
There are ALWAYS times when another form of attack will be more effective. So is having enough brains to adapt one type of power to function in a sub-optimal situation REALLY a Bad Thing as you're making it out to be?
No. It's not.Quote:Because that statement is self-contradictory. Maximal utilization of a power is always the optimal strategy by definition.
Again, take the PBAoE KB in the example. If you do NOT want to scatter enemies in a 360 degree radius. You're looking to do a bunch of damage and mitigate some of the effects of KB by "bumping" them all in one direction.
Maximal utilization of the power specifies that you're going to plop down in the middle of them and blow them all over.
Optimal strategy for the above described situation means you're going to place yourself to the side of the enemies and nuke off from there instead. -
Quote:Agreed. Too many people nowadays lack any discernible trace of a "work ethic".Originally Posted by McCharraigin
I could not "Call in sick" if I wasn't...not in my nature. Just a job you say..Jobs are precious things.
Lisa.
Anyone who can actually say "just a job", even in a humorous context is simply someone bucking for and extended bout of unemployment.
In the last 20 years, I've been out of work once. For a year. It completely trashed my savings. And I NEVER want that to happen again. -
Quote:YAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!Originally Posted by Beastyle
Hi all,
An issue has cropped up that prevents us from activating Double XP on the live servers this week between July 28 and July 31. The good news is that weve identified the problem that has caused this delay, and will be putting a build up on the Training Room soon that should resolve the issue. We will also be hosting an event later this week in order to ensure the stability of the new build.
We understand this is will be a great disappointment for some of you and appreciate your understanding in this matter. We wouldn't be resorting to cancelling this popular event at such short notice if we could at all avoid it, you can be sure of that.
Instead, we will be hosting Double XP on all live servers between August 11 at 9:00 a.m. PDT (12:00 p.m. EDT / 5:00 p.m. BST / 18:00 CEST) until August 14 at 11:59 p.m. PDT (2:59 a.m. EDT / 7:59 a.m. BST / 8:59 CEST)!
Thank you all!
Now I'll have time to actually prep for GenCon without having to worry about missing out on "muh dubble ecks-peez". -
Quote:Incorrect. Uses are more situational. But effective use is still quite easily explainable. Such powers are SPECIFICALLY for enemy formation disruption.Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Because such is not possible unless you effectively use the power as a cone (as in, keeping all the NPCs to one side of you).
NO, such disruption is NOT necessarily desirable in teaming situations where they're relying on "tank and spank". That doesn't mean the power is completely useless or of no use elsewhere. And the power CAN be used as a mob "finisher" once various AoEs have whittled them down. Or to disperse the enemies if they're proving more than the group (or the aggro magnet) can reasonably handle.
And yes, at times, if you wish to utilize the power effectively, that means using it in a less than optimal scenario (such as putting all enemies on one side of you and blasting off without a full complement of enemies in the AoE.
I'm not flaming. Flaming implies I'm attacking the poster. I'm not. I'm attacking the argument. I'd PREFER to be more subtle. But, flat text being terrible for shading and nuance, it's quite easy for "subtle" to go flying well over the OP's head.Quote:It's easy for people like Hyperstrike to flame, but it's harder to put up or shut up.
As for putting up or shutting up. People HAVE put up. The problem is, the other side simply puts it's metaphorical hands over metaphorical ears and metaphorically intones "LALALALALALA! NOT LISTENING!"
Quote:I'm still waiting. Why is it so alien to you that there are situations where less than maximal utilization of a power is more optimal?Quote:I do not quarrel with the idea that other KB can be used effectively. ST KB is very useful in a number of situations. Cone KB like Shockwave can work too. But please, someone explain to me how you retain the essential character of a PBAoE (i.e. use it with NPCs to all sides of you) while using KB effectively. -
Quote:PICS (and video, and sworn testimonials from your teammates, all the GMs on-duty at the time, server logs and a permission slip from the devs) OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
All those times I have knocked mobs into a tar patch, ice slick freezing rain and the like must be my imagination I guess.
Right? -
Quote:No. I'm normally this salty in real life. Get off my lawn.Originally Posted by YippeeGo
Wow, you get real salty when someone trashes knockback, don't you.
Why? I could post a dozen examples and you still wouldn't find it enough to break your "I hates me some knockback" mentality.Quote:If you're going to insult me, at least post more examples than "Haw haw it's good for romulus bots stoopid knockdown".
Repeat after me "anecdotal experience".Quote:That 50% of the time was pulled from teaming experiences.
Again, I've posted one. Moreover, I'm not going to waste my time trying to change your mind. It isn't going to happen. I'm merely pointing out that your method of argument is being rather trollish and dishonest. So I called you on it.Quote:And that was being generous as hell. I've never been on a team where I've said "Gee, we could really use some knockbacks right about now". It's never happened. If you can post examples where it's been beneficial to team success, then please, by all means, go right ahead. -
Quote:Think "roomba". You're using the leading edge of the field to nudge the opponents. It's not easy (and yes, you occasionally fling a couple the wrong way). But it's doable.Originally Posted by Nihilii
Considering the closest corner/wall is about 100 feet away from the computer and Romulus bots don't all spawn at the same time, I'd be really interested at seeing this on a video. Not holding my breath though.
The reasoning is similar to why some teams pull both the AVs while still whomping on the console.
A kill is a kill.Quote:Additionally, all Romulus bots die when the computer is destroyed, which most PUGs will destroy within a minute or two, making AOEing the bots a complete waste of time in most cases.
People already have to put up with b****ing and moaning about KB as it is. If you give people a way to cripple these power sets, it will become expected. And the b****ing and moaning simply increases for those who choose to learn to play with the tool instead of demonizing it.Quote:As always, my standard response to anyone who argues knockback is better than knockdown ; if it is so, surely you shouldn't mind other people choosing to turn their own knockback off, as it'd make your own characters relatively better. If you truly believe KB>KD, put your money where your mouth is. -
Quote:And 37.1934579345% of all statistics published on internet boards are pulled from...well...we know don't we...Originally Posted by YippeeGo
Unless energy blasters were given the ability to summon walls to knock **** into in the past few issues, there's not a single possible way that knockback will be helpful to a team more than 50% of the time, even in the hands of a gaming god.
And here is the dreadful lack of imagination at work with knockback. Knockback isn't just about pushing opponents into a wall.Quote:Here's the benefits from what I can see:
You can knock stuff down over and over until you finally back them into a wall.
It's about POSITIONING opponents while preventing them from attacking you. Yes, a wall or a corner occasionally comes into the picture. But that's not the whole of it.
Oh the wit... However shall I keep from busting a gut...Quote:Here's the drawbacks:
Other peoples' AOEs are completely ruined by your subpar damage
All those delicious tar patches and freezing rains and radiation infections are now useless
The tank gets pissed off and turns off his taunt aura
Scrapper gets pissed and aggros stuff onto you
Those last two were jokes, only they're still kind of true.
Actually all four of them were jokes.
Other people's AoEs are NOT ruined if the powers are used intelligently. And if I happen to bounce one or two opponents out of an AoE and still kill them so the hell what?
Again, they're not useless. Please save the hyperbole. You're acting like each and every attach that does knockback bounces entire enemy groups out of AoE effects 100% of the time. You know this is bull. Please posit REAL arguments.
Your third joke point is only true of idiots who don't understand the role KB plays in the game.
The fourth joke point is much the same as the third.
Tell me that when I'm on my bubble 'fender in an ITF bouncing all the Romulus Phalanx bots together in a heap with force bubble and repulsion field so that AoEs have better access to them.Quote:Unless you're running a team of blasters, knockback will never be superior to knockdown.
Tell me know knockdown is superior in getting them all together for maximum AOE goodness.
Yes. I'm patient. I can wait for an answer.
I refuse to hold my breath that long though.
And hopefully I'll still be cognizant in 50-70 years so I can listen to you stumble through an explanation.
Basically, if the enemy is spending most of it's time flying through the air and off its feet, you WILL kill it before it kills you. Simply because it won't be ABLE to kill you. The only thing it'll be able to do is die.Quote:Wait, what am I saying. It'll still be inferior because blasters need to use their AoEs to kill stuff before it kills them.
Basically it's good for soloing. -
Quote:Nope. Sorry. I'm not.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
You are wrong.
Okay, you're going to tell me I'm wrong, then try to draw up a list of exceptions?Quote:Per chance I need to explain how you are wrong - in case it weren't obvious from the post you quoted - no other power effect in the game makes using a power WORSE than not using it. Avoid/afraid are accepted exceptions, granted, but there's practically nothing beyond them. You can maybe argue that the knockback protection inherent in many control powers can hamper the functionality of Ice Patch and Earthquake, but that's an isolated case.
Sorry. No. That boat don't float.
I stand behind what I said. ANY badly understood, mis-utilized power can be a liability. -
- Anyone who can tell you about #1 is in beta. Therefore they aren't supposed to be talking about it yet.
- The Tier3 powers presumably still require two lower-tier selections before you can take them. Again, this is in beta. So anyone who KNOWS can't tell you and the rest of us are pulling the answer from someplace dark and fecal-smelling.
- Again, if this is happening, someone in beta would know but can't say.
- No. Street Justice will be purchasable sometime coinciding with or after the drop of Issue 21.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Silas
Goodness, this thread is keeping me awfully busy.
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Quote:The hell I can't!Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
but you can't ignore that the people who argue FOR it ignore its negative aspects equally as often.
Again. Yes. Yes I can!Quote:You can't chastise one group for claiming it's the worst thing ever while letting the other group off the hook for claiming it's the best thing ever, now can you?
So why are we doing it, then?
The negative aspects of the power are a known factor. If you don't like having to deal with it personally, don't take sets that include knockback and knockdown as part of their mitigation.
And learn how to work with those who DO choose to utilize powers with a KB component.
Any badly understood, mis-utilized power is a liability until you learn to use it. Try again Sam.Quote:The very fact that one has to learn to use knockback properly before knockback stops being a liability is reason enough to "hate" it.
I think you're overstating it.Quote:No other power effect in the game has this kind of potential for disaster to it, not since Fear type powers were changed from "enemies run away" Afraid to "enemies cower in fear" Terrorize. -
Quote:Well common wisdom is "chance" for KB means that some of them will, some of them won't.Originally Posted by Quinch
Well, being one of them, the complaint is more that it sends some of them flying, but not others.
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Quote:Reread what I said. It's baked into the powers themselves.Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
It's for personal powers. You have the option to turn it off. If you want it for mitigation, then no problem! Go to Pocket D and turn it back on. If you're already fond of it in the first place, then you had no reason to go to Pocket D and turn it off.
If this option is given, we then have a bunch of people crying AGAIN about how low-damage those power are compared to others.
This is a LRN2PLAY moment for such people. -
Quote:Did you get this during the GR beta?Originally Posted by Healix
I'll never know how this happened, but sure glad I nabbed it!
If so, they forgot to put a barrier surface up on the tram car early on. So you could go into the tram and actually get behind/under it too. -
Quote:heil webster!Originally Posted by silas
fogey*
wb all the same. -
Quote:No.Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
I was thinking with the addition of the little bird in Pocket D who can turn +movement off in Speed Boost, he should also be able to turn Knockback off in personal powers.
NO.
A HUNDRED BAZILLION GOOGOLPLEX TIMES NO!
KB is baked in as part of most of these powers' balance. Remove the mitigation of KB and what you have left are powers with no mitigation and substandard damage. And you STILL have various and sundry mental defectives weeping and raging over people who refuse to cripple themselves by turning KB off.
The proper answer isn't "get rid of if". The proper answer is "adapt, overcome". -
KNOCKBACK IS DEH DEVIL!
Just kidding!
There are three kinds of players in CoH with regard to knockback.
- Those who haven't learned to use it effectively but are willing to try.
- Those who have learned to use it effectively.
- Those who are too stupid to use it effectively and refuse to learn (preferring, instead, to *female dog* about it).
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Quote:IIRC, it was either in Tier 8 or Tier 9 (non VIP) someplace.Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I missed something. Is there any clue as to which veterans will be getting 550 PPs?