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Ok, lots of things I need to comment.
First, let me point out the word 'mainly' in the topic.I'm not going to pretend I will arrive at the ultimate build on the first attempt. This is just my first attempt with the new info. I also don't want to sacrifice PvE versatility if I feel that over-specialization is not going to make the character particularly stronger. I will opt for versatility in such case. Propably this character will evolve to the final build over time, just like my blaster did(does).
Ok,I don't build characters for sirens only, although the issue with Aid self is a valid one. Personally I don't consider zone pvp worth too much attention. I make characters so that they are sufficiently strong in sirens without trying to spend ages at the builder thinking about the ultimate build for one zone.
I'd however like to know what are the 'obvious' points that dont make this build a 'sirens' build? Apart from aid self, which I consider slightly overhyped. If you arent able to get kills without aid self, you are unlikely to get them with it. Besides, zone pvp is about getting kills, not about making yourself unkillable after all (ps. Ill talk about the goal of this build shortly). In my next build, my blaster is going to remove aid self from sirens level range and get conserve power instead because it is more useful..
Ultimately though Ill propably move confuse and possibly terrify out and stimulant and aid self into sirens level range. Currently confuse and terrify stay, in case I exemp, because they are so important in pve. Apart from this operation, I don't see any way of making the build any stronger in sirens. These sort of changes Im likely to make after playing enough with the 'inferior' version. Its part of the my characters 'evolving' process. Ill just say that current choice is a conscious one. Id rather not move terrify anywhere but I don't see many other options to move outside the sirens range.
About the 'goal' of the build. Well, Im not going to entertain any fantasies about dominator being efficient at killing anybody, so Im going to rely on teammates to do that, apart from few possible 1v1 skirkishes. So the goal of this build is to hunt, mez, toggledrop, and pin down enemies for my teammates to kill, or simply cause trouble in enemy ranks. (this character is designed to 'gank' from day one)
Overall damage? Are you referring to power blast? I have had power blast 5-slotted with SOs and I realized that I rate it slightly above flurry in usefulness. (this is because blast is ranged. Ok Im jokingly exaggerating but the conclusion stands). Blast and bolt exist in this build purely to build domination. Their usefulness on taking down anybody by damage is nonexistent. Besides Im not planning to go head-to-head with anybody. I plan to hold somebody, the stalker comes and puts them below 50% and the corrupter tears them a new one with scourge after that. Ideally ^^
And should I do go head-to-head, there would be no hope without total focus or bonesmasher, which, frankly, are unlikely to be enough even when domination is running. There may be a possibility to take down people at higher levels when I get power burst, or not. I don't know, because my character is currently just 32 and burst is 38 earliest. Slotting total focus for 2 acc, 2 dam and 2 end redux is however more than likely to happen, otherwise Id be out of end before their lifebars would hit halfway. Im more than sceptic at my ultimate damage potential quite frankly. I have already used domination on a scrapper in sirens and been utterly unable to dent them even when they were held.
Overcommitting travel powers? Personally I don't recognize such thing. Travel powers can save your butt more often than aid self can, and aid self will need quick getaway capability to be useful. Ill never go below 2 slots in superjump on any of my SJing toon, even if they were arena-only (which kind of toons I dont have). SJ can be extremely important at escaping different debuffs, jumping away to aid self, avoiding movement impairing effects like snow storm and allow fast zone-wide movement in sirens. Instead of hopscotching to talos park with a big "KILL ME" sign above my head, I choose to arrive from above, via war walls, or similar place. Also superjump is great at chasing people. If you think you cant get to flying toons with just SJ, youre wrong. My blaster can total focus stun them to the ground even(bonesmasher in sirens), I guess my dom could do it more easily with ranged mezzes. CJ and hurdle would ideally be 3-slotted, but if I'd take slots away from somewhere, theyd be off from CJ. Well, im maybe overslotting them but it is my decision. I hear a lot about unsuppressed movement, and while it is obviously important for pvp toons, it is also slightly overhyped, imo. I feel that my blaster is capable of using melee at arena so efficiently because of his wide array of movement powers, including superspeed. Ideally Id also want to have superspeed in sirens, but that is unlikely to be able to fit in. I guess Ill just have to hope my opponents arent carrying too many webnades.
PS. Ultimately this is just a first attempt at a test build. So Ill propably make changes to it, but I will make them on my own accord.I hear your thoughts but will wait until I see my own eyes before I agree.
PPS. You may need to link to the dom guide you mentioned again. Its not the 'generic' dominator guide, is it? Because I already found some points in which I disagree with it.
PPPS. Regarding slots in CJ, hurdle etc. Im not basing it on numbers on some hero builder. Im basing those on the experience I got from my blasters three builds or so and quite a lot of time spent in PvP. -
Id rather slot energy punch heavily because its one of my favorite powers but I agree slotting is tight on a stalker. Still, put at least 1 acc if not 2 in it. And forget the disorient slot.
PS. If you want to kill caltropping and mining dev blasters, make a claws or spines stalker. (also Id rather just have superspeed and leaping because they will simply webnade you down and kill you from fly)
PPs. Caltrops' damage will affect you if you get close enough, even if you fly. So they'll make you propably break stealth. Fly does nullify the slow from caltrops though. -
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fire off aim, the build up from the energy epic that escapes my mind, fulcrum shift, nova, pop a blue, hit transferance on a survivor to get you end back and keep on going.
you may also whoop, shout i am invincible and hell yeah! at the monitor.
lets see a blaster do that :-p
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I hit aim, BU, nova, catch of breath, conserve power and kill the next mob spawn with single target attacks while you are congratulating yourself -
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Not yet, Dom secondaries are in a different table than Blaster and Corr primaries, and didn't get around to being changed yet.
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I can't say im surprised. /e rollseyes -
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Use Levitate to build Domination? I skipped Power Blast on my Mind/Nrg because IMO Levitate is better in every way. I think it even does more damage.
EDIT: Duh, just remembered primary attacks don't boost Domination the same way in PvP. Nevermind
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Lol, exactly the reason im so worked up completely revising my dominator play.. -
Yup, I agree. Levitate is ok, although I will always pick mesmerize above it so its a matter of 'where to stick levitate'. If it could be possible to use only power bolt to build domination Id drop power blast in a heartbeat, but normally having two such attacks is more practical than just one. Also I havent tested how well that will work. Only merely starting my tests after I found out about the domination build up..
EDIT: on second look I dont understand why I put stimulant and acrobatics that way, duh. -
Heres my new build for my Mind/en dominator, with PVP in mind mainly.
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Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
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Name: Victor Warfield
Level: 50
Archetype: Dominator
Primary: Mind Control
Secondary: Energy Assault
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01) --> Mesmerize==> Acc(1) Acc(3) Sleep(50)
01) --> Power Bolt==> Acc(1) Acc(11)
02) --> Dominate==> Acc(2) Acc(3) Hold(5) Hold(5) Rechg(7) Rechg(9)
04) --> Bone Smasher==> Acc(4) Acc(9) Dmg(11) Dmg(13) Dmg(21) EndRdx(50)
06) --> Confuse==> Acc(6) Acc(7) ConfDur(15) ConfDur(15) Rechg(43)
08) --> Combat Jumping==> Jump(8) Jump(37)
10) --> Power Blast==> Acc(10) Acc(13) Rechg(21)
12) --> Hasten==> Rechg(12) Rechg(17) Rechg(17)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14) Jump(29)
16) --> Power Boost==> Rechg(16) Rechg(19) Rechg(19)
18) --> Hurdle==> Jump(18) Jump(36) Jump(46)
20) --> Health==> Heal(20)
22) --> Stamina==> EndMod(22) EndMod(23) EndMod(23)
24) --> Telekinesis==> EndRdx(24) EndRdx(25) EndRdx(25) Rechg(37) Rechg(40)
26) --> Terrify==> Acc(26) Acc(27) Fear(27) Fear(31) Rechg(31) Rechg(31)
28) --> Total Focus==> Acc(28) Acc(29) Dmg(33) Dmg(33) Dmg(34) EndRdx(37)
30) --> Acrobatics==> EndRdx(30)
32) --> Mass Confusion==> Acc(32) Acc(33) ConfDur(34) ConfDur(34) Rechg(36) Rechg(36)
35) --> Stimulant==> Rechg(35)
38) --> Aid Self==> Heal(38) Heal(39) Heal(39) IntRdx(39) IntRdx(40) Rechg(40)
41) --> Power Sink==> EndMod(41) EndMod(42) EndMod(42) Rechg(42) Rechg(43) Rechg(43)
44) --> Power Burst==> Acc(44) Acc(45) Dmg(45) Dmg(45) Rechg(46) EndRdx(46)
47) --> Charged Armor==> DmgRes(47) DmgRes(48) DmgRes(48) EndRdx(48)
49) --> Super Speed==> Run(49) Run(50)
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01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Domination==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
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I posted this here to have a place to discuss about the usefulness of mind/en in pvp, feel free to comment about the build although im not likely to listen anyway
EDIT: swapped stimulant and acrobatics -
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My main problem with Eviscerate is the length of the animation, you could fire off two other attacks in the same period of time (say for example Focus and Slash) and do more damage, and the cone is pretty narrow so it's not really a 'guaranteed' multiple-foe hit.
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It is still worth it because of its pure damage and extra chance to crit. Eviscerate is an important power on my claws/ninjitsu stalker. Besides I love its animation so much I dont care if it takes so long(you dont hear me say this on many powers)
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Good show. Ill be there. (hero or villain i wont tell
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Well power boost was the reason I took /energy, also because I was familiar with it and had hoped that the melee attacks would indeed hit hard. Bonesmasher is still ok, but total focus was disappointment really. It only hits about twice as hard as bonesmasher, eats one fifth of endurance bar doing so and recharges bit more than twice as long as bonesmasher. Tbh Id give one of my fingers to have energy punch in the set instead of any of the other blasts. Actually if that'd be the case Id respec total focus away for energy punch. TF is barely worth the endurance at the moment. I might feel differently when I get it fully slotted though.
Also I was told that power burst sucks, looking at numbers avaialbe im ready to agree, at least when it had that old miniscule range (I still dont know if the range increase applies to dominators as well). -
Right, so I was being stupid and blind :/ Sorry, but I managed to miss the line as I thought I would going through 18 pages of posts..
Anyway, I have had my mind/en since cov launch (edit: now lvl 32), granted, Ive not played it that much especially in pvp. I wandered off when they still used to suck. After that I have pvped a lot with my blaster since then and judging from any dominators Ive fought against I thought they are still too weak.
Reason I havent really noticed this change in pvp is because I respecced power blast away for being useless and removed power bolt from my power tabs for its uselessness. I wouldve respecced power bolt away as well but it was the first power of the secondary so I couldnt. This because the powers were that bad in PvE. This translated to the few cases I tried PvP obviously so that I did not have those powers available. As for melee attacks I never got around to being able to use them apart from maybe once or twice before I died and domination reset.
Naturally this is going to change the way I play in pvp.. I just wasnt aware of this.
ps. As a rule, I dont read peoples guides. I dont trust them. No offenseWell in this case I also wasnt interested about plants.. I guess I should start to pay better attention to the guides forum..
pps. I have said before and will repeat now that dominators are fun in PvE. With E..
pppps. I will rebuild my dom and test according to this info I didnt know about, then post again. -
I think you should get another fly speed slot to fly somehow..
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That secondary attacks build domination well ONLY applies to PVP as well, which is why I havent noticed it until now. I still have trouble quite comprehending this change. Where exactly has this been mentioned?
Unslotted power bolt does exactly same amount of damage as dominate and mesmerize. Apart from being mostly smashing damage. Power blast does same amount of damage as levitate. And their damage still sucks in domination as well. Ive always thought dominators are more 'controllerish' than controllers themselves because the secondary attacks suck so bad.
EDIT: I just spent the past hour going through all patch notes I could find from annoucements section, (dating to time before I6 and after the forumwipe) all the way up to I8 release notes where the bonus to assault powers is briefly mentioned) and I found nothing concerning about the bonus apart from that brief mention in I8 notes that it exists.
Now am I being stupid and blind or is this bonus actually been mentioned at all in an official source? (I guess it was either introduced at COV launch or briefly afterwards) cause it sure isnt mentioned anywhere in-game...
(ps. it wouldve been a lot easier if the search function would actually work) -
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Besides the blasts indeed are worse than useless in pve even. I once had power blast but respecced it away.
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I honestly can't understand this. What's useless about them? I don't feel the blasts are anywhere near useless! Notice that a lot of the people who don't feel Doms are massively underpowered take, slot, and use their secondary heavily. I think there might be a connection there.
Oh, and the Defiancing Blaters are a load of [censored], but that's an issue with Defiance being easily exploitable, and is annoying to all squishies. They're generally pretty easy to kill if you just have someone on the team who can fly, though.
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Whats useless? How about them doing no damage? My total focus (granted, only two-slotted SOs atm) did about 5% damage to a blaster lifebar today in sirens. Power blast does about less to a minion in pve. Thats whats useless about it. PvE-wise pretty much everything else is a better pick when you take powers. I MAY be slightly biased expecting more because I have a lvl 50 energy/energy blapper. Granted.
As for the second comment, you also need to be able to see the blaster. I had fly (jingle jet). Wasnt enough unfortunately. I managed to kill him trying to escape hospital 3-4 times in succession with heavy acc insp usage. I didnt enjoy it though.
ps. I could maybe live with miniscule damage if the endurance use was ALSO lessened. Unfortunately the powers take jsut as much endurance on my dominator and blaster. -
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It also prevents MM's being Ubah Malefactors. As you could easily just buff your henchies then Malefactor, and absolutely own.
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Own how differently from normal malefactoring? -
Oh come on
Unfortunately, while I was testing the build up speed myself in sirens before posting my previous post, I was also running to sharkhead for acc insps and being repeatedly two-shotted by your generic, flying defiance blaster (my teammates were too). Very un-fun. And also domination wasnt of much use in that case as you can guess. It honestly wouldnt have been such a problem if I had had some +percep from somewhere, but I dont know what such buff villains could possibly have in there. Xanthus came to help with his corr and wilfred with his MM but were propably also fed up with the whole thing. Plus someone managed to spawn a winter lord in front of hero base too..
I may need to respec my dom according to this now, I wasnt aware of it because I really wasnt planning to pvp with my dom. Besides the blasts indeed are worse than useless in pve even. I once had power blast but respecced it away.
ps. regarding my post in that other thread, I guess i was more 'bright-eyed and bushy-tailed' back then and hyped up at the changes as a whole, not particularly at doms. Espcially I was happpy for the possibility of playing my tank in pvp (dream which since then has turned false) I also had no way of knowing how good doms really were back then. -
If it is indeed working like that, it needs to be fixed. Personally I see no reason for forced despawn, just let the MM respawn the pets at his leisure.
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Ok, I admit dreadful wail is up there too. Its disorient is quite useful.
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I admit my stalker has a slight resemblance to Lady deathstrike, but at least shes not wolverine
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You need to respawn pets before they adjust their lvls afaik.
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You can get a good stalker once at most with Trip MinesThey learn fast. (One of the reasons I dropped them from my build)
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One of the reasons I made a claws stalker. -
Argh that domination buildup thing is true. Dammit.
ps. theres something wrong at the forums... I cant see the latest posts properly.
pps. Just been to union sirens call. I see no reason to change my opinions other than power blast/bolt. Anybody who thinks that doms arent underpowered in pvp can meet my heroes on defiant. ( i dont have heroes on union) -
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PBAoE attacks are classed as Melee attacks as far as Defense calculations are concerned.
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No, this is wrong. Test it with someone slotting a aura 3 acc, not using FA, BU or tactics.
I've tested it myself, with a lvl 50 spines/DA slotting 3 acc in DS and quills against a lvl 50 regen stalker with Hide one-slotted for defense. 17 hits and 328 misses.
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PBAoE attacks, especially damage auras classify as melee attacks. Hide ALSO gives melee def. Duh. -
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Its not like power blast and bolt build domination ANY FASTER than the mezzes.
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Assault powers generate more domination points than control powers when they hit players. I use both ways of playing. If something can be easily controlled I will mezz it so it doesnt kill me (eg blasters, some controlers) and build domination off players that take a long time to hold (eg scrappers, tanks).
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Arrrgh.. tell me it isnt so.. I dont want to be forced to use such otherwise pointlessly superfluous powers..