Hammerfall

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Anyway. This got derailed for wayyy too long, I just had fun reading the topic with the OP wondering if stalkers were nerfed in I9, when in fact they got such a huge buff. Not trying to prove my point that bad, I think the FoTMs who should pop out of nowhere in the next few months when more people catch up will speak better than I could ever do.

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Why did you give examples that only concerned one type of stalker then? Anyway, I agree that stalkers got a slight buff. (Buff only if you can get your hands on that IO that is)

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(and it's unlikely to draw unless you really suck at getting in melee)

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Try your stalker against, for instance, bubbler with force bubble and dispersion bubble (Which prevents you from stunning him).

Or a traps Mastermind with selfheal, or...

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If you remain hidden for the whole match the match will end in 0-0 draw. Thats all the advantage stalkers have in duels.

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I think you're doing it on purpose now but I'll answer seriously anyway.

Stay in hide+stealth + IO stealth. Your opponent can't see you. Pop 10 rages and kuj-in retsu, 2-shot your squishy opponent with BS+ET in 2s (this is ~1500 dmg, even with a heal between he'll die, you can add an epic blast if he manages to run away tho ). Repeat as needed.

You can only win or draw (and it's unlikely to draw unless you really suck at getting in melee), there's no way to lose.

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a.) Like I have been trying to point out, the advantage of EM stalkers over other stalker primaries in PVP is obscene.

b.) Like usually happens with good players pvping with melee characters involved, the match will end up in a draw. After all at no point was I trying to say that stalkers are weak. The "draw or win" argument doesnt really say anything since basically every stalker can force a draw in a duel by remaining permahidden.

c.) For instance, I doubt you'd be able to kill my blaster through (power boosted if necessary) PFF. My blaster on the other hand, should you attempt to attack, will 3-shot you through retsu and whatever.

d.) the above is pointless egoboosting from both of us, lets leave it at this.

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Hide+stealth+IO stealth is the true cap, you'll be seen only at 10 feet. This is way better.

There's also no need to switch from invis to stealth.

If you can't see the huge advantage that is never, ever, being detected if you don't want to... well, I can't explain it better. It's the whole point of the AT, IMHO.

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Im not arguing that the IO isnt a buff to stalkers. However, my blaster hunts stalkers without any +perception whatsoever.

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and overload on rages to 2-shot you with BS+ET.

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woop woop notice a recurring theme here?

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Everytime I see someone talking about "rad/psy", "rad/son" or "ice/cold" in a topic about duels, I chuckle ; in I8, sure ; in I9, GL fighting that stalker who can stay hidden the whole match and overload on rages to 2-shot you with BS+ET.

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If you remain hidden for the whole match the match will end in 0-0 draw. Thats all the advantage stalkers have in duels.

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Um, everything ?

Back in I8 and before, everyone and their brother could see any stalker, with yellows or stacked CMs/clarity/tactics.

Sure, you could get great stealth with hide+invis, but even then you could be seen at 30 feet, and you couldn't attack.

Now, you can't be seen at more than 10 feet, and that's if your opponent is at the perception's cap, and you can attack !

People don't realise it yet, but stalkers just got a massive buff.

Everytime I see someone talking about "rad/psy", "rad/son" or "ice/cold" in a topic about duels, I chuckle ; in I8, sure ; in I9, GL fighting that stalker who can stay hidden the whole fight and overload on rages to 2-shot you with BS+ET.

It also make stalkers WAY better damage dealers in fast-paced team pvp.

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Remaining hidden takes you only so far. Since my stalker was at the cap before inventions already
(hide+invisibility) I took it pretty much granted. Although my post was too snappy for being in a sour mood again, sorry about that. However dont forget you have to break hide to attack.

Edit: here we go again, im getting irritated by something unrelated..

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But if it makes you feel any better, another Secondary wouldn't of helped, they'd still have mulched you.

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What the man said, don't feel bad, from the looks of it that team would have mulched any kind of single toon (not using phase shift)

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However there are a lot of PvP builds out there that really tip the balance. For example, I have no travel powers, every SR armor and most combat powers so that my toon was viable in fights.

Yet in PvP I last 10 seconds in open fights, yeah thats balanced.


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That sounds like bad pvp build to me.. As I'm sure others will point out. We need more info to give more detailed advice but movement is about 50% of zone pvp. Secondly, as SR you need aid self BAD. Thirdly, SRs unfortunately are very difficult to play against certain characters. (And thats saying it mildly. My blaster for instance will happily tear through any kind of defense you can dish out 10 seconds out of every 25. So you need a different approach and be mindful of opponents strengths. )

And lastly, none of the rules apply if you go against superior numbers, everybody, and I mean EVERYbody, can expect to die fast in that situation. Ability to fight multiple enemies is never a given, and there will always be someone who will beat you 1v1 still.

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Claws/ does have some redeeming features that EM/ has for damage.

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They are however largely inconsequential in pvp (the range in focus is the only pvp-viable 'redeeming feature', but it is not enough to balance it with EM).

ps. Im not saying that im unhappy with my lvl 36 claws/nin stalker. Im just saying that EM has stupid and unjustifiable lead when damage is concerned.

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My Stalker can two shot a squishy in Sirens without AS. That's hideously underpowered, buff please.

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Thats one powerset. Personally I think its stupid that the other powersets arent anywhere near that damage without AS. Try the above with a claws stalker for instance..

ps. However, PVP isnt unfair on stalkers per se. They just arent as overpowered as many people want to think.

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because your chances of getting even one person down when you are outnumbered is just ridiculious.

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Depends on the AT, player and how good they are. A Blaster can nuke a group of players and possibly take out a few.

Wouldn't a solo PvP'er that could take down 3 or more villains without a scratch be slightly overpowered?

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It is all relative. Once I came to sirens call, and noticed that the few heroes were getting their backsides handed to them by a villain team. I looked at options available to me, activated force of nature outside zone and entered, popped half a tray of insps and downed all 5 villains near the hero base on my own with my single target attacks.

Does this prove anything? Nope, other than it can be done. Naturally the situation was somewhat special. In normal situation I'd bite the bullet and keep getting killed until enough other heroes enter the zone, co-ordinate resistance, drive the villains away from near the base, at which point the villain players usually leave cause they got no stamina for losing

ps. When I tried the insps+FON trick against the regular corrupter team I was torn to shreds

pps. having easygoing pvp is actually not as much a matter of characters, its about players. Meet up nice players and go to arena where you cannot be bothered by others. If you are lvl 45-50, you could try test server fight nights too. (well im sure lvl doesnt matter as much even, but when Ive been there its been one big team battle at any lvl (50))

ppps. Arena is the best place to test whether something works or not. Im sure most of the people posting in this thread would like to arena you for testing purposes. I have toons on defiant but can meet on test server.

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PvP hasn't left me bruised, I just HATE unfair fights in something thats supposed to be entertaining. To make my PvE character viable in PvP to counter a lot of what people are doing with theirs, totally changes him as a character.

As for the fly thing, fly is a travel power, not combat and as such I don't think it should give such an advantage. Also, I didnt say it should affect movement powers, giving people the ability to stay out of range until the effect wears off by running, but it does give players with fly some risk vs. the reward of the advantage it DOES give.

I did leave CoH for a time, and nothing has really changed so far as PvP attitude goes.

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Well thats another thing that you and me have in common, I also tried and tried to get a character function in both pve and pvp but you simply cannot have arbitrary powers and remain good in pvp. I had fly on my blaster, I had AOEs on my blaster, after a long time I gravitated towards leaping+acrobatics+superspeed+aid self+stamina build. Currently I have no AoEs, not even nova. It took a long while for me to let go of it, but now im not looking back. However, while this may feel forced, my character remains good in pve, albeit singletarget. So its actually a change in point of view. My characters prowess in 1v1 combat has banished all doubts of going in the wrong direction.
My current pvp build is the result of nearly 2 years of development and very much set in stone. I plan respecs around the moving of 1 or two slots for the IO sets now (ive actually lost count how many respecs Ive had, propably 4-5 available now). Trust me, if people recommend some power choices for pvp, they've been tried and tested hundreds of times over.

Accepting certain things faster will just make life easier earlier on.

ps. I moved from fly to superjump+superspeed after being hit in the head with snow storm (auto-hit targeted toggle -fly) one too many times.

pps. Zone pvp is more forgiving actually, you can have fly and remain good in zone pvp. Arena.. well.. is a harsh teacher.

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Not wanting to take part on the argument, I think heroes are better than villains in really big teaams. In 4v4 or less I think they are quite even, tho. But a group of corruptors need to really suck big time to have some hard time in rv

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a gang of defenders pwnz a gang of corrs, just be glad there are not hoards of maurading defenders running around...

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You ever been on an all empath team? There's a reason why all those buffs don't affect self you know ... cause empaths would never have to team if they did.

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That reminds me how Omega and Keith with two /empath controllers (2 in total that is) iirc fought a team of 5 blasters and a scrapper to a standstill at arena lvl 50. (I was one of the blasters heh. Trust me we tried our best)

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no, but a emp/dark should have a chance against a kat / sr. Purposely giving gimped power examples really isnt the way to try and shoot down my point of view.

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I'm not trying to pick on you personally but this is a false idea of PVP. Devs have repeatedly since Issue 4 (um what, 1,5 years ago?) said that PVP in this game is balanced for TEAM pvp. This is what justifies the existence of support characters like buffers. Some character types duel better than others but ultimately it is of no consequence. Calls for balance in a 1v1 combat will fall on deaf ears. Thats how it is. Personally I have no problem with it, since i know what I can fight with and against what enemies I have a chance. Accepting the situation puts the mind at ease.

And again, in team PVP the tactic should be to single out the weakest or strongest opponent and neutralize him, its a battle of the team and not a group of individuals. That may appear like ganking from the single persons point of view but from team point of view its only logical. Since its normal, why cry about it?

If I go to pvp zones and theres several people fighting on both sides I accept that I can get ganked and die, no matter how strong I am. Exceptions are just a bonus. Due to the nature of team pvp you WILL get ganked on a pvp zone. That is natural.

ps. These sort of topics rise periodically every once in a while.

pps. I deny that I belong to a 'forum cartel', my opinions are my own. The fact that several people have similar opinions should tell us something other than that they'd 'belong to a forum cartel'.

ppps. Originally I also wanted more balance in 1v1 combat. I got over it by banging my head to the wall long enough.

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As I said, I don't profess to know every power from merely its effects when it hits, but it was suspect that all that defence was ingored by a villain hold each time I went up against it. Other powers were missing because I rammed up my defence, but the hold still got in there.

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This is possible. Some holds ignore opponent typed defense, I think dominate is one of them. Whether this is due to a bug Im not sure. However, same glitch applies to controllers.

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If you put a tank against a brute, tanks will naturally add in all their armors and go for a stand up fight because thats what they do. Brutes can do the same thing, but over a period of time boost their damage, giving the tank problems at that kind of time scale.


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Tanks != brutes. Brutes equivalent is a scrapper. Scrappers have higher overall damage output because they dont need to wait for fury building up, and have occasional criticals which are unresistable damage.

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Stalkers can hide really early on, delivering massive damage in the short term whilst scrappers get critical hit that has to be delivered in the long term with successive hits. By this time, stalker is gone.


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4/5 of the stalkers need to get AS off to get to that damage, which is not a given against a mobile opponent. Only EM stalkers really can get to reasonable damage output without using assassin strike. Once the stalkers are exposed, only regen stalkers have survivability before being wtfpwned by blasters. Blasters have constantly high damage output, and accuracy second to none.

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Dominators get domination which can effectively overpower controllers, who as I understand it have better holds when domination isnt in effect, but PvP rarely ends up coming down to successive hits or prolonged battles.


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Controllers have a VASTLY superior options for their secondaries, namely debuffs which are a ton better in pvp than dominator secondaries. I agree that dominators win in holding with the current domination build up. But holds are not the end-all of pvp.

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Defenders vs. Masterminds. What can I say really, defenders are team players with a lot of aid other powers. Masterminds have that ability, some stupidly powerful shields and they bring thier own team.


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While masterminds can be excellent in given circumstances, teleport foe will suddenly change the MM from a tanker into a 2-shot squishie. As buffs go, nobody can argue that defenders win buffing contest hands down.

And I think you forgot one of the better villain ATs for PVP, corrupters.

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As for the autohit comment, with all your powers, hitting a SR scrapper with all the powers I had active should be very very low, yet each and every time you manage it on the first hit. Difference last time was that your friends couldnt easily finish the job because of so much defence making them hit me very difficult.

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Its not like accuracy is reserved for villains. My blaster will 3 or 4-shot a SR scrapper running elude and all other def powers. Same of course applies to ninjitsu/SR stalkers running elude or retsu. This however does not equal autohit. Just very high toHit chance because of my selfbuffs. Something being autohit is an altogether different matter. Shouting about autohits will just eat on your credibility. (this is because there really ARE autohit powers but we arent talking about them here. Power sink is an example of an autohit power, as are targeted toggles like radiation infection and darkest night.)

Its not like RV is the only source of prestige..

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coolios. Does the defense enhcnaments i slot in on hide contribute to how well others can see me? or is it pointless even having anyhting slotted for hide

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Defense enhancements wont improve your stealth, but they do improve your defense.

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I know all granites look the same, but does that also apply to size and shape or does body type/size make a difference?

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No, all granites are of same size.

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Nongranites only penalty is -speed from rooted, AFAIK.

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Which part of this is in contradiction with what we said?
You sound like a broken record.

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Well, it is an exploit exactly the same way it is an exploit to farm turrets as has been previously mentioned in the thread. I am not saying that I disagree on the other hand, if the exploit is there and the devs don't want the game to be exploited it is their job to amend it, in fact it somehow justifies some people's attittude no matter how annoying I find it sometimes, I honestly prefer to think that they are after a toon trying to get a good recipe than just for plain annoyance, which is sad in my opinion (just an opinion of course). I myself have broadcasted a few times during reset that I was turning toggles off for anyone to kill me repeatedly in case they got a lucky salvage/recipe drop.

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Exploit is used as a term about utilizing game system in a way thats not officially allowed. Farming turrets etc is not forbidden, therefore they are not exploits.

Utilizing glitches and bugs to your advantage however is an exploit, for example.

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I actually got the first warning that lead to the ban because I droned someone a couple of times.

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WTH??