Hammerfall

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If you only have two anchors you won't have much chance of defending your base tbh.

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Propably, but we were talking about official minimum requirements.

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Lets understand this about PvP, there is one big rule, and that rule is PvP does not give a penalty in terms of death. This is NOT a PvP only oriented game. If i go to a PvP zone i expect a lot of things, one i do not expect is to get debt from PvP'ing. That is a major setback for a game that is not fully PvP oriented. So the opinion that if you go into a PvP zone and expect to be killed by npc's trained by a player for me is widely flawed. If we go by that reasoning, then when you are in a hazard if i happen to pass by with a herded group of npc's by you and kill you, well its a hazard zone.. bad luck. If i pass with another group of enemies and kill train them on you again, well you are on a hazard zone, bad luck for you... But this type of behaviour is considered griefing on non-pvp hazard zones. The reasoning showed by the dev's is very thin and very flawed on my point of view. The bottom line is PvP shoudnt get you debt by whatever means. This isnt a fully oriented PvP game.

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If you want safe debt free PvP, the Arenas work quite well for that. Let's not go forcing your 'rules of PvP' on people when there are alternative debt-free ways to PvP too.

You're right, this isn't a fully PvP oriented game. The so called PvP zones are in fact PvE zones where PvP can happen. So why should that be different from regular PvE zones?

Shrug.

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Debt does not belong to PVP zone. According to developer logic, somebody who, say, herds their own lvl 52 ambush in steel canyon around trying to kill low lvl players and causing debt is of course not griefing, now is it?!

There is nothing wrong in using mobs to kill players in PVP zones if only they wouldnt cause debt.

EDIT: Then again, having PvE enemies give fairly good xp,inf and prestige rewards in PVP zones gives a reason for players to hang around in PVP zones even if there are no player enemies there. The fact that same PVE enemies give debt justifies these rewards.

So its a two-edged sword.. The devs could have used a better choice of words to explain this, though...

I will be busy IRL until next tuesday, but possibly we could organise something this weekend. You can ask around at coalition channel.

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nuless of course if u don't post pics of your defences.

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or have no intention of ever base raiding and just like to see what other people have done to glean inspiration to do something.

personally if i was going to take our base up to raid status the entire layout would change anyway to fit the raid requirements.

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Since instant raids are just for fun, and have no repercussions winning or losing, I'm not taking all of his too seriously .. yet. Things may change if we decide to get an IoP, but thats a different story.

...Now if Goonies could manage our first instant raid a some point..

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You need 6 anchors (which is why you need 8 rooms, 6 for the anchors, 1 vault and the entrance).

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Iirc you dont need all of them for instant raids, I suspect vault is not needed at all. The number needed to destroy for winning a raid scales according to how many anchors enemy base owns. I have no real numbers though, I read this from US forum somewhere.. I suspect you could be raided with 4 anchors, for instance (amount needed to win would be 3 or something.).

Once again, I could be wrong.

Raid teleporter is a requirement though, at least for attackers.

vault+6 anchors+raid telepad = IoP requirement.

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Btw, you can disregard guantlet as a concern for tankers helping - one of the US servers ran a test recently where they had 20 tanks all out attacking Hami and they couldn't draw Hami's aggro away from the one tank actively taunting Hami.

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I read that the hami-tank was a real tanker though? We have been using regen scrappers.. Dunno why its needed though..I think two empaths could keep a normal tank alive in there. And it might be safer having a real tank doing taunting for precisely this reason.

EDIT: what exactly is 'revised' in this plan? Looks pretty 'same old' to me..

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<cough>monkeys

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Waitaminute, Inner Monkeys are now raid capable? We need to have some practise raids with Goonies then..
Goonies base has been raid capable for some time, but I don't know how many players I can actually talk into it as we do primarily PvE. I hope I can stir some interest.

I have been compiling a list of tech items, can find it here.

I don't think anyone knows everything about the base items.. Discovering is part of the fun, right?

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hmmm, roughly how much hp does hami have?

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Hami nucleus has 47120 hp and 90-95% resistance to everything if I recall correctly..

A patrolling robot, magic minion or mercenary wouldnt be bad Although I remember my MM henchmen had trouble navigating in base if the floors were raised or lowered, that was in Beta, I don't know if its fixed.

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These players actually arranged to meet in bloody bay instead of the arena so I wasnt feeling bad at all about killing them.

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Not to mention you can meet at Pocket D these days.... If its not fighting theyre doing..

Good Idea but I think this should be on suggestions forum.

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I rather like the real time aspect. It means that while one person makes the changes the rest can make helpful suggestions/mock/bicker.

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Although even that isn't easily done, since going into the editor closes your chat box. Granted it's easy to pull back up, but then it's a pain to find a location for it that won't get in the way

Well, on my 1024x768 screen at least

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Yes, you have to close the editor anyway to chat.

How about detaching base editor from real time, so you could place rooms temporarily anywhere, but you couldnt finish editing until everything was in order, and then changes would be applied all at once. If you'd try finishing with something illegal, base would just stay the way it is.

I have started compiling item guides mainly for my own purposes, I have a rough draft of tech items here:
http://koti.mbnet.fi/~jplaukka/guides/itemguide.xhtml

Problem is of course that Goonies base is tech base, but I will try to make lists for arcane items as well. One important thing missing from room guide in the above links is the item limitations of rooms and plots, so propably Ill make my own room guide as well... soooon.

Of course, item guides will be updated when people build something out of salvage, because the control/energy/price and other info isnt visible until the item is built. I have some already on my guide, but I'll be adding more when items are built.

Grats mate, nice to see you made it

Heh, I think that anybody on a patrol mission is supposed to be attacked though, otherwise what would be the point of patrol mission in a PVP zone if not the danger of being attacked? I mean, you even get a badge out of it..

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[That crystal thing is darkcolored standing thing, that once you get close it spawns a huge ammount of floating blobs. By the huge gangbang this group can do, often such crystal results in a complete team-wipe.


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... Reason why people avoid teaming with Kheldians, as long as having to mind the void/quantums. Prolly being so hard finding teams is what prevents people from playing their khelds till 50

[/ QUOTE ]Voids and quantums are never a threat to the teams really, and neither are nictus dwarfs/novas. However, the crystals are nasty for inexperienced players.

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I'd say the crystals can be nasty to even experienced teams, For some reason they won't be spotted until its too late.. And people I have teamed with don't seem to prioritize attacking it very high. I was on a team yesterday and there was a crystal in a group of rularuu. As per usual it caused about 6/8 team wipe. Only thing standing in that storm of dark energy was me, eventually I managed to kill it. Its annoying that the -rec in its attacks prevent my use of taunt effectively.. Normally the -rec prevents me killing it until unstoppable is on the verge of crashing.

Voids and Quantums cause only the death of Kheldians at worst but arent a danger to the rest of team. Except at very low lvls.

Mentions of griefing need to be specified a bit more, I acknowledge there some people out there who specifically try to annoy other people, but there are also borderline cases which we are discussing here. Disrupting a duel is within rights of everyone in the PVP zone, thats what Bridger and us are trying to say. Its not correct to try enforce "gentleman's rules" upon other people either.
They arent supposed to be there. Trying to make that happen in general simply will be unsuccessful and make you angry.. Even if there are some people ready to obey those rules. May I remind that its the game developers who decide what we should and should not do in those zones..

The rules of PvP zones are that they are free-for-all or general heroes vs. villains. Duels are against this definition actually..

I have to admit I don't know what I'd do if asked to back off out of a duel.. Possibly I would, possibly I'd not.

What I understand with griefing would be killing same player repeatedly, making mob kill somebody to cause debt, camping at hospital or something similar. In such cases I'd personally just leave the zone if playing there becomes pointless. Rez at base and exit via telepad.. although I admit Im a bit privileged to be able to do that. If you don't count chat, there's very little the other players can do to annoy me. Thats why I mentioned abusive language.

Most of the above cases aren't necessarily griefing, entering PvP zone is a big risk, thats what makes it fun. They're not parks to take a casual strolls in.

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If they work like placeable items then that would let groups that don't want to be raided the opportunity to complete the trial without having to place the item and get the benefits/responsibilities of actually having the IoP in their base.

Working as Intended?

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I suspect that guide simply has the info from cov beta where the IoPs were buyable items (and I remember them costing 20k). Ie. the info is not accurate. Guides made in november anyway.

Though on second thought.. you might be right, who knows.. Pah.

Its good to know I havent done anything specifically forbidden while attacking other people. Its what I expect really, if I see an enemy I attack without sending any "Excuse me, could I possibly attack you?" tells..

Its the abusive language that should be rooted out from the PvP zones. Its definitely a problem. Some people apparently can't see a difference between "normal banter" and "abusive language". Tsk. In my opinion banter doesnt include words that the profanity filter catches or words like "n00b".

About arenas, I'd recommend an official how-to-use arena guide put to here
http://uk.cityofheroes.com/game-guide/
for instance. It could then be linked in forums.

The links are very nice, but they dont look like they have all the stuff, also, having IoP placement cost 20k sounds like what they cost in beta when being tested? Arent they supposed to drop into base on their own when the tf is finished? Would be mighty weird allowing them to sit on editor menu while they are supposed to be raidable..

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and I'll be damned if I sit down in Talos Park trying to explain to the one person how to do it.


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I see plenty of misplaced prejudice here. All that the other person needs to do is accept the arena invite, and afaik they'll be teleported to the match even if they arent in an arena? Hmm im not sure, but at least it works if they ARE inside arena.

Open terminal, choose match parameters, click invite only, type /ai opponent, click start. Match starts if the other person accepted the arena invite. Isnt that pretty much how it goes? Im not 100% sure but its worth a try.

And yes, heroes and villains can fight against each other in arena.

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Yet that "1 spot needed between rooms, even at corner" rule kinda ticks me off..

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Worse even, imagine a 2x2 room. The corridor can be either left or right, but if you try moving the room somewhere, the new corridor is automatically placed on the left. Even if the room you are connecting to has something on the left blocking the corridor placement, and if the right side would be free. You have to first remove the block, move the room, then move the corridor to the right side and then put the deleted item back. In short, the room moving doesnt behave very intelligently if anyone understood my meaning.

This is even worse if the blocking item happens to be a salvage item such as two telepads in a 2x2 transport room. Aarrgh. You cant delete it as you'd lose salvage. You cant move telepads inside the room cause there is already a corridor on the OTHER side of the room blocking telepad movement. So I need to build another transport room somewhere, move the telepads temporarily there, move the original room, move the corridor, then move telepads back and then delete the temporary transport room.

I recently rearranged the rooms in Goonies base because the 8x12 plot was pretty much full. It resembled one of them 2D puzzles where you move pieces one at a time until they form a picture. It COULD be made easier o_O

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You and anybody else that enters a PvP zone are free to kill whoever or whatever you like, reguardless of whatever they are doing at the time!
If people want a safe 1 vs 1, take it to the arena!
And anyone that stands in a PvP zone and complains of getting killed.......should stay out of PvP zones!

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What she said.

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agreed

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So this includes killstealing? Its not like I dont expect people to killsteal from me, I just want to know whether its generally accepted or not.. I know that several people dont like it. I dont mind myself either way, really.