Haetron
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Posts
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I really enjoyed reading the guide, and Haetron has been brilliant about responding to people, but seriously, I think it all comes down to complaining that the resistance set with controls doesn't have resistance values on par with with reisitance sets without controls, which is entirely how it should be.
If Dark Armors resistance were raised closer to that of the other resitance based sets, combined with it's controls, and a half way competant player, it would outshine the other sets.
Actually using the controls is the flavor of the set.
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Except most of the resistance sets -without- controls aren't just, resistance and nothing else. Electric and Energy Aura get endurance manipulation, Willpower gets a nice hybrid of Regen, Resistance, and comprehensive stat resists. Invulnerability and Earth Armor don't have much as far as "non resistance/defense" goes, but they increase their own defensive capabilities further with Max HP boosting.
It's not the controls that would make the set "outshine" the other sets, it's the crutch that is Dark Regeneration. It's tremendously effective when it works, and it will work enough to make a Dark Armor brute "playable". But due to it's situational limitations, yet the set's total reliance on it, the set falters in the late game. The controls DONT add anything of note to a team, cause if a team wants Mez, they don't go "hey, let's get a dark armor brute" they pick the AT intended for it.
Fire Armor... well, UberGuy asked specifically.
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Nearly every response you've offered in regards to why not to play Dark Armor apply to Firey Aura. Obvious exceptions are FA's ability to stack Toxic DR through HF and the fact that HF has no toHit roll dependancy. However, FA suffers the same weakness to knockback (with attendant cost in either power picks/endurance or slots for IOs) and the lack of a "real" Tier 9. In fact, many of your comparsions include the use of their Tier 9 to show the superiority of the other sets - something which obviously one cannot do with FA. I assure you that it's a bad idea to ask the FA to tank an AV.
Mostly then that leaves the dislike of control as a mitigation tool because you feel that it diminishes Fury gain.
So I'm curious then why this guide is only about Dark Armor, since most of the same complaints can be applied to FA.
Let me note that I have a SM/FA Brute at 50, so I'm interested in your response.
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Because Fire Armor offers MOAR DAMAGE. Well, yeah, that'd be my main point of preference. I also feel that it's heal is superior, and it's Tier 9, even if it is a self ress, is still superior to Dark's as well. And let's not forget the fact that it runs less toggles for similar resistance numbers, for less endurance drain, does more damage output, and gets an endurance recovery ability in Consume.
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Given the points made about teleport, placate, confuse and repel - I'd assume the OP was leaning towards PvP.
Repel isn't something I saw much of hero-side in PvE, nor was confuse or teleport. The only time I've seen placate PvE is bane spiders.
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I didn't address PVP in the original post, because I thought it was much more widely accepted that Dark Armor is not good there, either. As much as I may not be a fan of the set, and think it underperforms compared to the other options available to brutes, it is playable, as long as you make sure you take and six-slot Dark Regeneration appropriately.
In PVP, you're dealing with a low resist level to the most commonly delt damage type, and your "controls" are easily avoided by bunny hopping and jousting. Sure, it's a problem all brutes have to deal with, but other brutes aren't built around keeping things in melee range and stunned to avoid dying. Even if your mezzes do "take", during the jousting, any PVPer of worth is carrying breakfrees or is properly buffed. Of course, the highly mobile nature of PVP makes Dark Regeneration less appealing, as you will rarely hit more than one to two targets, and if you're hit with a proper To-Hit Debuff, you're done pretty quick. The same goes if you do luck up onto the SR scrapper/Ice Armor Tank that does decide to stay in melee range, you're probably not hitting them with Dark Regen or any of your control toggles anyway.
Even the sets that Dark Armor should shine against, Dark Melee/Dark Blast is a horrible match up for the Dark Armor user. Dark Melee packs enough potent To-Hit debuff to over power your toggles and Dark Regeneration to the point they will not be reliable, and your own attacks are of course, generally going to suffer as well. So, the fight Dark Armor is supposed to be moderately good against winds up turning into a slow erosion of the Dark Brute's HP with little to nothing to prevent or counter it.
But wait, Psionics should be a good match up, right? No, not really, because there's no Psionic Melee set, so any ranged used worth their salt will never be at mercy of your controls, or in range for your Dark Regen to hit. Add in the hammering your recharge rates are taking anyway, and much like the Dark ((Offense)) fight, you're basically fighting a losing battle unless you specced into Aid Self.
The -only- use of Dark Armor in PVP in the end game is the Mag 30 stun on Soul Transfer, as since you'll die at pretty much the blink of an eye of any dedicated PvPer, you can de-toggle and stun any toon in range of the effect.
But, even then, the result is that you're really just being a sore sport, as even if you do manage to get a sufficient heal from the ress, ((Which isnt likely)) and you do rise and kill the person that killed you, you'll get no benefit (other than petty revenge satisfaction >
)) from it. There will be no PVP rep gain, and in an Arena event, you're still flagged as taking a KO, and the opponent still gets their +1. Worse, in arena of course, is the fact it sets you up to get smacked down for another quick add-on KO.
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1. So you're saying that DA sucks because it has control powers. Interesting. I kinda get the impression from hearing others that this is not a common complaint. Is building Fury the only thing that a Brute should consider when choosing powers? Do DA users have problems getting to full fury bar joy? Why can't they just keep those toggles off while they're running around taking out the first mob or two, then turn those toggles on, and then smash the dizzy, helpless mobs that they come across for the next loooong time?
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Because, if you want to use crowd control as a damage mitigation tool, there's an entire AT designed around that? Not to mention it's only melee range mitigation. This doesn't come up much in PVE, as mobs will generally rush into melee range as a rule, once aggroed, BUT, there are the occasional mobs that do not.
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2. I'm having some trouble with your argument that DA's toggle PBAoE is awful. To compare with Stone Armor: Stone Armor has some secondary effects limiting mobility of your opponents, which is good. But DA does more damage than Stone Armor and does it using an uncommonly resisted damage type, and also uses only 2/3 the endurance. Why is SA so obviously superior to DA there?
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Because, the status effects caused by SA's PBAOE damage toggle are actually beneficial, keeping the mobs within melee range if they try to run. Since everyone wants to keep mentioning IOs as well, it also has some more slotting options available as well.
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3. You seem to be deeply dissatisfied with DA's resistances. The one you complain about most is poor Energy resistance. Why shouldn't I view this as being offset by awesome Psi resistance and very strong Negative and Toxic resistance?
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Because, energy is a painfully common damage type, compared to Negative, Toxic, or Psionic.
Add in that Dark's Toxic resist is -not- "very strong", its base 15 percent. Willpower can tie this while SoW is up with HPT ((Which is required on Brutes)). Stone Armor ties it with Earths Embrace. Invulnerability gets 13.1 from Unyielding/Resist Elements, with a potential 65.6 when in Unstoppable. Fiery Aura gets 15 percent per use of Healing Flames, and I've not tested this personally, but since it's duration is 60 seconds, it could possibly be stacked, with recharge slotted. ((Going strictly off not seeing the indication it -doesn't- stack, if it does not, this still leaves it tied with Dark Armor.)) Even Electric Armor, which has a "hole" to toxic normally, can utilize Power Surge for a 52.5 percent resistance for 180 seconds. THis leaves Energy Aura as the only set without the capability to exceed Dark's Toxic resist.
Psionic, there's no room to debate. Dark Armor does actually do this best, though what it gives up for it is honestly not worth the cost, in common practice.
And finally, the Negative resist. This, is tricky, because while Dark does offer healthy Negative resist ((Its exceeded by Electric in Power Surge, Invulnerability in Unstoppable, and Stone in Granite)) this is where one of the major flaws comes through on Dark Armor. Almost -all- Negative Energy attacks come with a ToHit Debuff. Dark Armor's crutch, Dark Regeneration, relies on being able to hit. Thus, when you're being hammered by Negative Energy, you're losing your ability to heal in a reliable manner.
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4a. You're also unhappy with DA's mez protections. DA has no KB protection. I will grant that this is a common status effect. But are you aware of the existence of KB protection IOs? I'm not sure I see why I'd need to have Acrobatics to circumvent this problem--I think I can do it with one slot. Am I incorrect in my thinking on this?
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The slots you're wasting on IOs to counter knockback are still slots other sets don't have to rely on. Again, the reliance of Dark Armor on IOs to reach the levels of performance other sets are already capable of is not a strength.
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4b. DA also has no protection from Confuse, Placate, Taunt, or Repel--as you rightly point out. Which other brute sets offer protection from those?
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Willpower and Energy Aura offer repel resist in their base Mezz protection toggles, and Invince, Electric, and Stone offer it in their T9s. Ignoring that, we've established that Dark Armor does give up protection from the common status effect of Knockback for the rare effect of Fear.
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4c. You discount its resistance to Fear as "very uncommon". Is Confuse so much more common than Fear that I should be deeply offended by a lack of protection from one, but unimpressed by protection from the other?
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Didn't really make a huge deal out of the lack of confuse protection, and not many other sets have it, but the sets that do, do not sacrafice Knockback protection to get it.
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5. I am deeply confused by your comparison of Cloak of Darkness with Combat Jumping. CoD does cost more endurance. But it also has more than twice the defense bonus of Combat Jumping, +Perception, and Stealth--in addition to the Immobilize resistance. Why is it such an obviously inferior power? It seems quite useful to me.
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Stealth is of limited importance in PvE, as is +Perception. This is a good toolbox power for PvP in some situations, but in that enviroment, most people are maximizing their stealth and +perception anyway, if they do have access to it. In the end, it's another toggle to run to drain your endurance, and for PvE, CJ provides Immobilize protection just as well, half the defense, but an increase in movement speed. Plus, it helps lead the way to shoring up the other mezz hole, Acrobatics.
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6. You're unhappy with Dark Regen because--to paraphrase--when your pals tell you to go and tank that AV, Dark Regen is NOT up to it. Are you a Tanker? I thought we were talking about Brutes.
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Have you actually -played- Red Side? The role of "tanking" the AV almost always falls on the Brute's shoulders, and while I agree Masterminds are probably better at it, ((And certainly better at it than Dark Armor)) finding a MM that wants to play that role, or a team that will let a MM play that role, is the exception, not the rule.
And aside from MMs, which AT do -you- want soaking the big hits from the AV?
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7. Are you seriously telling me that you just can't see situations in with a Mag 3 PBAoE Fear plus Acc debuff toggle power might come in handy?
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Mag 3 Fear isn't really that useful except on mobs that can be dispatched without much effort, anyway. The ToHit debuff is 5 percent, which is not really anything -great-. And it chews your endurance bar at the rate of .56/s. Oh, and it has an accuracy penalty, as well.
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8a. You complain that OG sucks, then you list something that sounds really great--a PBAoE Stun toggle that costs minimal END and a minor amount of HP. Your chief complaint seems to be your bizarre refusal to acknowledge any utility to being able to control how quickly everyone around you can attack you. Can you really not see a situation in which this might come in handy?
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Sounds great in practice, have you -used- it? There's never been a situation where I said "Boy, I sure am glad I stunned those minions that were in melee range of me!" and the only situations where it proved moderately useful, it meant more self inflicted damage, which meant more dark regeneration, which meant more endurance loss. Truly, a great power.
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8b. You also complain that OG only has melee range. Can you explain to me why you don't think melee range powers would be exactly what a Brute might want to have? Can you list for me the ranged attacks found in other Brute secondaries?
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Now you're stretching for counterpoints. One, for implying I considered Oppressive Gloom a "ranged attack". Two, for misstating the purpose of OG, it's not an -attack- tool, it's mitigation. Mitigation that doesn't take effect unless they're within the 8 foot melee radius.
Oh, and if you want to really know about other "ranged attacks" Energy Drain/Power Sink provide more valuable effects, and have a larger radius. Well, it's only 2 feet, but you didn't specify how much more range.
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9. Do you think that you could similarly put the hate on any other powerset, if you did a similar degree of downplaying the advantages of the set, spotlighting the disadvantages, and complaining about the set using arguments that can be applied with equal effectiveness to the entire AT? If not, why not?
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No. Because the other sets don't underperform and underachieve as well as Dark Armor does.
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If there's any set that does compete with it for the lowest spot for Brute effectiveness, I think it might be EA just due to the general lack of effectiveness of Defense.
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The problem isn't that it uses Defense, but that it uses *only* Defense, and not nearly enough of it. Its strongest defense, Energy, is only 20.625% (unslotted, since that's the baseline we're using here). To Smashing and Lethal, it gets a whopping 16.5%. It doesn't even get the utility powers that /Dark gets; Energy Drain isn't quite capable of providing mitigation through end drain and -recovery. Conserve Power ends up being overkill. And don't forget that it has two holes: absolutely zero Psi and Toxic protection (not even resistance).
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It still has a Tier 9 that isn't built around you dying, which gives it a plus, but it's probably -worse- in PVP outside of that.
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Overload is quite possibly the best Brute Tier 9, I'll not deny that. But I don't think it overcomes /Energy's shortcomings.
Overall, I think you sell Dark Regen a little short and definitely overestimate /Elec, but it's a solid analysis. I can see where all those complaints over the years came from.
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Yeah, but I think a lot of people sell Dark Regen's endurance usage short. The power gas great potency, but I think that Dark Armor's reliance on it, and it primarily, is what hurts the set in general practice, because it's such an expensive and also situational heal. I can't count how many times I've come to the point where I can either use Dark Regen and have my resistance toggles drop, or try to ride the fight out on resistance alone, and when it hits that point, it's usually a no-win situation. You're either going to get a brief burst of hitpoints, lose your resistance, and suffer larger incoming damage numbers, or you're going to be working with the generally inferior resistance on the set.
And yes, I know IOs work to correct this, but really. Why put forth the effort and infamy to correct the problems with a sub-par set when you can just start out with a higher baseline, unless you're either wanting a challenge, or, you're doing it for theme?
Edit: And I have nowhere near the experience with actually playing EA to say if it's better than DA or not. I know I've seen people do well with it and wondrous things once they hit their T9, but that's the same issue of having one REALLY GOOD power crutching up a sub-par set. Im -considering- giving it a shot in the future, but my brief post CoV launch era experience with it really soured me. I would not reccomend it to anyone, but at the same time, I don't have the experience with the set that I have with Dark Armor to make a reccomendation AGAINST it either. -
Of all the points on my guide I debate about Dark Armor, the fury gain issue is the one Im quickest to surrender about. It's really great also, if you happen to have a Dark Armor brute you enjoy, and I noticed you did skip Acro. You mentioned Hami's, so Im guessing you've slotted with a solid mix of IOs and HOs to bring DA up to better performance levels?
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I thought energy aura was weaker than this set lol
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If there's any set that does compete with it for the lowest spot for Brute effectiveness, I think it might be EA just due to the general lack of effectiveness of Defense. It works for casual PVE, but the higher end play, it can start to suffer.
It still has a Tier 9 that isn't built around you dying, which gives it a plus, but it's probably -worse- in PVP outside of that. -
First of all IOs. If you want to compare recovery rates with IOs, I bet I can out do your endurance recovery rate on an anything/elec build than you can on an anything/dark. If you're going to compare the sets, you need an equal playing field. I didn't mention anything Dark could do with IOs, and I didn't mention anything any -other- set can do with IOs as well.
Second.
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His opinion and supporting arguments assumes that player skill makes no difference in the effectiveness of a power-set, well, that and several other assumptions, but that one being the most flawed. The entire argument has to made from the position of ommission of a very influential truth. His argument might be credible if you ignored the glaringly obvious. Performance in this game varies wildly between players, and it isn't because we are playing different builds or sets, thought those do vary to an extent. The most variable factor in determining the effectiveness of a build or power-set in any situation still remains player skill. For Dark Armor, this is probably even more important in my opinion than any other set because of the necessity to constantly assess your defensive situation and select the best tactics.
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But you can't put a number on player skill. One person's skill with Dark Armor won't neccessarily match their own skill with other sets. Dark Armor -does- perform better with practice, but then, any set does. Skill isnt the sort of thing that you can say "well, using X amount of Skill, a Dark Armor player will perform an Elec Armor using X amount of skill, with X being equal." I have the opinion that if such a situation existed, the Electric Brute would completely outclass the Dark Brute, due to the fact Dark sacrafices peak performance values to keep a subpar across the board performance level instead.
The point of the guide was to point out to perspective Dark Armor players that you're giving up a LOT to be able to perform at a consistent level to all types of "normal spawn" type situations. When you toss AVs/EBs or anything that can impair Dark Regeneration ((AVs/EBs normally accomplish this by nature of being the last thing standing)) such as recharge debuff, endurance drain, high defense ((IE, anything multiple levels higher)), or to hit debuffs, Dark Armor is going to wind up eating floor.
Arcanavilles survival guide for Scrappers does show Dark Armor in a favorable light, but there are two issues.
First, as mentioned elsewhere, it tends to stick to "perfect situations" where everything performs at it's peak. A single solid to-hit debuff, in practice, will send Dark Armor into desperation, as it's "utility" tools, CoF, OG, and of course, the crutch of the Set, Dark Regeneration rely on hitting targets to work. Or, situations dealing with higher con enemies, that get defense bonuses due to level range.
Second, it only compares Scrapper sets. Scrappers and Brutes only share two secondary sets, that are covered in the guide I've read of Arcana's. ((I don't think Willpower has been analyzed yet, unless its in a different guide than the one I located in this forum.))
Plus, Ill be honest. Drawn out numeric calculations and simulations rarely hold up to real world practice. The -only- two situations I've ever seen Dark Armor outperform other brute secondaries in practice have been the Leviathan and Numina fights. The other sets have no issues dealing with Dark Armor's specialty, large mobs of normal sized, even to +2 level spawn, and thus, all it's overperformance there is essentially worthless.
Also, to the casual player, Dark Armor will always be worse because if a situation arises where other sets ((aside from Fire Armor, and possibly Willpower)) would see problems, they have the potential to overperform, long enough to either cover the retreat of a team, or, to retreat themselves. When Dark Armor is thrown into a bad situation, it's performance doesn't have the capability, in practice, to increase. It simply chokes and dies. -
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You provided a long guide consisting of some rather ridiculous claimes about how DA is crippled by its weak energy resists and what a weak power Dark Regen is (lol). You didn't make a post saying DA is bad for fury generation, you claimed it was a bad set all around.
That thesis is provably false. It's been proven by people who applied much better analysis, gave much better information and actually applied both real play and numerical simulation to the effort.
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I thought I made it quite clear that Dark Regeneration was -THE- power to the set. However, it's also got several more achilles heels than other self-heal powers available to Brutes, due to it's reliance on using multiple targets, the effects of using it on Enemies with a high defense rate, and its effectiveness when suferring To Hit Debuffs.
I also posted a lot more behind the point of Dark being a weak Brute secondary than it's energy resist numbers, but I somehow doubt you bothered to read the whole thing. No surprise.
And thanks for disputing my "real play" and implying I didn't use any sort of numbers to draw the conclusion. It's appreciated. -
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That Electric Armor is the best Brute Secondary has become conventional wisdom. Conventional wisdom is oftentimes wrong.
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Kinda like the earth being flat, or the sun revolving around the earth, or spontaneous generation, and who could forget the memorable, and highly believable, Moon being made of cheese!
Also, for the record, Fury, and its calculations, aren't as simple as 1+1=2...
I rather lawl'd when I read that.
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I oversimplified.
There's no way you're going to prove that fury gain is increased by having enemies attack you less, unless you go to absurd situations where they break your stat protection normally, reducing your own attacking output.
Also, while you're putting hard effort into proving how wrong the guide is, you're also going to rerun this same respec with the same exact team, providing the same buffing, using a different brute with the same primary, but a different secondary, to show Dark truly does outperform that set in an equal enviroment, right? -
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I still don't think the OP is being serious.
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Im being completely serious. Im hearing a lot of "OMG UR POST IS WRONG" but nothing disputing the actual numbers or observations in the guide.
Fury generation is caused by two conditions. One is attacking, the other is being attacked.
If you're surrounded by five enemies, you attack one, the five attack you, that's Six times Fury is generated.
If you're surrounded by five enemies, and using Cloak of Fear you fear all five, and attack one, the one attacks you, the other four quiver, that's two times fury is being generated.
If you're surrounded by five enemies, and you use oppressive gloom to stun those five enemies, and attack one, that's 1 time Fury is generated.
And that alone is only a small part of why Dark Armor is an inferior brute set. This isn't as large an issue on Scrappers, because A. Scrappers aren't competing with tanker armor sets in their AT, and B. Scrappers don't rely on fury for damage.
I'll address other issues brought up with the guide at a later point, posting time is limited right now. -
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Also, for the record, why are you so concerned about soloing AVs? Teaming with a /thermal, almost any brute can duo AVs and any halfway decent team can take an AV. Soloing though? AVs aren't meant to be soloed, they are meant to be hard, and they are meant to be done on teams (even EBs for the matter, it's why your contacts always tell you to get a team for difficult missions). So yeah, if you're expecting to pawn every AV in the game by yourself, then play a different set. Play one of... wait... how many builds can actually solo AVs as it is? Not that many.
Being able to solo EBs and AVs is hardly a good measure of a brute secondary. That's about the only thing /dark can't do...
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Never mentioned "Soloing" AVs in the guide, I don't believe it's a fair indicator of performance, as you're not supposed to do so.
However, I do think that the ability to withstand an EB assault is, due to the amount they are seen redside.
And yes, you can get a Thermal/Ice to cover your issues with damage mitigation and handle almost anything, but then again... so can any other Brute Secondary.
Again, the simple concern is there is nothing that Dark Armor can do reliably that has value that any other set cannot outperform it at, except the absorbing of Psionic damage, and then even Electric Armor can suit that role admirably well, and then perform better across the board otherwise. -
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Why? Because when I play the other armors I always wish I was playing /DA instead and end up growing frustrated with their inadaquacies.
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Out of curiosity, what inadequacies are those? Unless you're mentioning Psionic damage, Im having a hard time grasping what you think Dark Armor does better than other sets?
There is also a Fear protection, and it's one of only two sets that does this, but Fear is almost non-existent in the PvE game anyway. -
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Why the hate? I really don't get it. If you don't like a set -- that's one thing. Saying no one should try to play it? Hardly.
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Not hate. Ive played the set for two years. While I have a lot of hate for it, I didn't put half of it in this guide, I simply tried to point out places where it falls short. It does provide the benefit of being a more challenging set to play. But if you care about effectiveness, Dark Armor is one of the worst secondaries in the game, for Brutes.
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. Also, are you not running OG or CoF. Both provide excellent mitigation and neither one hinders building fury (why people seem think/assume this I don't know, I have never had problems with fury on my brute).
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Because, it's a truth. Fury is gained when you attack, and when you are attacked. Cloak of Fear and OG stop incoming attacks by disabling the minions.
It should again be mentioned, they REMOVED Ice Armor/Melee from the game pre-launch, because brutes that did not get attacked were poor at fury generation.
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Also, just going off base numbers, I suppose /DA looks like crap. Proper slotting makes everything better. If you don't spend the slots, then no set is going to be good. Does dark regen NEED five or six slots? Yes, yes it does. With 2 acc, 2 end redux, 2 rech it is up as often as I need it, it hits, and it does not destroy my endurance. Do I have two end redux in each of my shields? Yeah, I do. Do I have endurance problems, NOT AT ALL. I can attack constantly and I only ever have problems fighting Mu, only /elecs can say they don't have that problem.
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Sorry, even with slotting, the lowest you're getting Dark Regeneration to is roughly 1/5th of your endurance bar. That's -not- a small amount, and is a major source of Dark Armor's end woes, especially considering it's the crutch that holds the set up.
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I don't mind the self rez, it's not great. I don't really care about god mode, I'll be perfectly honest. It's a mag 30 stun, I've seen it stun AVs before. It gives you enough time to click your shields back on and can be enough to give your team a breather/get the upper hand. That said, I'll probably drop it because I almost NEVER use it.
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Please don't misinform. The only way that Soul Transfer will stun an AV is if its PTOD drops. Against an AV, it's generally worthless, as you will very likely be targets, and smacked, during the 1/4 a second window about 1/4 a second of the time. Then, even against an AV, you're gaining minimal HP back, and Minimal Endurance, compared to other self resses. Plus, the fact it requires a target can make it worse.
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All that said, not many brute secondary sets really bloom until much later. /elec early? Not a big fan. After power sink -- absolutely wonderful. Stone? Granite armor isn't until 38. Fire? Burn and Fiery embrace are 28 and 35 and burn really takes off when you get the patron immob. WP I haven't played enough to really tell you, I've enojyed what I've seen early and I can't wait for QR+Stamina. EA? I couldn't stand it personally but others disagree and I've seen some /ea brutes do some amazing things. Same goes for invul (less so on the amazing things but you don't see too many of those these days).
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One of the key problems is that, when other sets are blossoming, and taking on great challenges, Dark Armor is stagnating, and giving you more stuff to deal with trash minions you're probably killing anyway. Then, when the going gets tough and other sets can godmode, Dark Armor just chooses to die.
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Paired with the right primary (read:almost any) /DA is amazing. My elec/dark is a ton of fun, my em/dark was my first 50 (WH and OG stuns, well, a lot), my dark/dark didn't care if they weren't attacking since shadow punch and smite cycle like no one's business (endless attack chain before level 10? yes please). People even make the unholy end sucking beast that is stone/dark work (not recommended for beginners). SS is pretty much always awesome. DB I haven't played with enough to say.
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Now this, agaim seem to be misninformation. Simply put, if "any primary is awesome" with DA, then there's no synergy of it, and any certain primary. I personally find this somewhat true, as Dark Armor has no real clear cut advantage that make it perform effectively in comparison to you other choices for armor, except it's Psi Resist. Any mitigation you get from your primary will be just as effective with a good secondary armor set, as it will be the less effective Dark Armor.
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That said, good slotting and halfway decent planning can make any build good or even great. I love dark armor for brutes, as do many others. I have no problems gaining fury (there was a whole discussion the other day about this) and I don't die unless my team royal screws the pooch and we have three or four spawns on us.
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Now it sounds like you're just saying "Ra Ra, my brute is awesome" without any real solid justification of it's value compared to other sets. There is, no matter how much you -like- your Dark Armor brute, nothing mechanic wise that increases survivability it's capable of, that an Elec Armor brute with Aid Self can't outperform. The purpose of the guide is to explain why Dark Armor is the weakest armor set available to brutes, and should be avoided unless you are looking for a challenge. Saying "Good slotting and planning can make any decent build great" is not being fair to the other secondaries that are options, as if set has higher baseline performance, then proper slotting will cause it to yield higher results. -
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;_; Hi.
I made a Dark Armor Brute even after Haet told me not too, and look at me now.
*Is covered in cuts and scrapes, is missing one leg, has a cat clawing at his face and Micheal Jackson is rubbing his shoulder, grinning.
*
;_; DON'T BE A VICTIM. TURN BACK BEFORE ITS TOO LATE. I DIDN'T LISTEN. I MADE A DARK ARMOR BRUTE. LOOK AT ME. RUN. RUN BEFORE ITS TOO LATE.
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2nd account or did he pay you to say that?
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No, he's someone who asked me about my experience with dark armor, I told him what to expect, and he played it anyway.
Thanks for the help Rei, fixed now? -
*sigh* I am sorry, I do not seem to be able to fix the columns that I lined up on the Electric and Fire Armor comparison sections. If anyone has feedback that would help with that, please let me know.
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This is, point blank, a power by power breakdown of the Dark Armor secondary for brutes, in comparison to the majority of other brute set. The goal is to prevent anyone from ever considering playing the set for any reason than concept, or the fact they -want- the game to be difficult. It will primarily look at Dark Armor's role as a resistance based set, and the multiple weakspots it has that render it one of the weakest Brute secondaries.
First, you need to ask yourself, "Why do I want to play Dark Armor?" I will go over some of the popular reasons people have mentioned to me, when considering this step.
1. I heard that Dark Armor really shines against psychic damage, and I can see myself possibly doing quite well against psychic damage based AVs such as the Leviathan and Numina.
STOP: This is no longer true, post issue 7. You now want to play Electric Armor instead. While Electric Armor is not as powerful at resisting Psi damage as Dark Armor, it doesn't hamstring itself on every other resistance value to provide this mediocre value either.
2. I heard that Dark Armor has Fear and Stun toggles, that render minions around the Dark Armor user less effective! This sounds very cool!
STOP: You would like to take a look at the following ATs. Dominators. Controllers. Defenders. Corruptors. These ATs have powersets that will more than satisfy your need to inflict fear and other status affects upon your enemies, rendering them helpless. Furthermore, Fear and Stun are COUNTERPRODUCTIVE to you, as a brute.
3. I have a concept that revolves around being a master of darkness, and want to have a visual representation of that!
STOP: Dark Armor is not the only armor set anymore, with Darkity Darkness effects! You can now enjoy similar visual representations from the Brute version of Invulnerability.
4. I want to resist negative energy damage reliably!
STOP: Electric Armor and Fire Armor, while not as potent in their Negative Energy Resistance, can do this admirably, and do not involve the general weakness that Dark Armor itself entails. The sets will actually, with proper power choices, fair better against negative damage than Dark Armor does.
5. I want a self ress!
STOP: Fire Armor and Willpower will suit your needs. Dark Armors self ress is the weakest of the 3 self ressurection powers available to Brutes.
If you, after reading the guide, still have a desire to play Dark Armor, please post any questions and I will try to convince you why this is a bad idea.
Of course, when referring to Dark Armor as overall weak and ineffective for Brutes, you have to look at the powers available to the Brute in question. So, let's go over them briefly, and compare them to several other options that are available before starting your career as a brute. After all, the 9 powers that compose every secondary are going to be a key factor in determining the sets overall survivability.
1. Dark Embrace: This power is mandatory, but for good reason. This is your Smash, Lethal, and Toxic resistances, all bundled into one package. It is also half of your negative resistance. The totals on the power, unslotted, are 22.5 Smash resistance, 22.5 Lethal resistance, 15 Toxic Resistance, and 15 Negative. Look those numbers over. Without diving into the fighting pool, this will be your base resistance numbers for the Smash, Lethal, and Toxic damage types. It should be pointed out that Smash/Lethal is almost always present and that low Smash/Lethal resistances will severly impair your survivability. Dark Armor comes in with the lowest resistance numbers to this type, tied for the lowest of sets that rely mostly on resistance, with Fire Armor.
2. Death Shroud: This power is a PBAOE damage field toggle. This ability is "shared" with Electric Armor, Fire Armor, and Stone Armor for Brutes. Sounds good, right? Except, the Dark Armor damage toggle merely does a 8.34 damage per tick. Fire Armor, while only doing damage, comes in higher, at 9.18. Electric Armor is tied, damage wise, with Dark Armor for 8.34 damage, but has the bonus effect of doing negative endurace to the target. Stone Armor's damage toggle does less damage at 7.51, but enjoys the extra benefits of immobilization, -Jump, and -Speed. Electric, Fire, and Dark armor's PBAOE damage toggles all cost the same base .52/s endurance. Stone costs .78/s. Stone, Dark, and Fire's PBAOE all recharge in 4s, with Electric Armor coming in a little slower at 10s. However, seeing as these are toggles, recharge is a minimal concern, at best. You want be turning them on and off repeatedly mid fight, in normal use.
3. Murky Cloud: This power is the power that grants your resistance to Fire, Cold, and Energy damage types, as well as some Negative resistance. The totals of the power, unslotted, come to 22.5 Cold, 22.5 Fire, 15 Energy, and 15 Negative. It also includes the added bonus of being able to resist some endurace drain. Look carefully at the above numbers again. The 15 Negative can be stacked with Dark Embraces 15 Negative for a total 30 percent. The 15 Energy, barring outside sources, will be the ONLY resistance to Energy you will ever get. This establishes one of Dark Armor's multiple, and crippling weaknesses, as Energy is a fairly common damage type.
4. Obsidian Shield: This is your mezz protection toggle. This prevents you from being held, stunned, slept, or feared. Sound good, right? No. There is no protection to Immobilize here, there is no protection to Knockback here or anywhere else in the set, there is no protection from Taunt, Confuse, or Placate, or Repel. The power, for a mezz protect, has more holes than the Titanic post iceberg. It is easily tied with Electric Armor's Static Shield as the weakest Mezz Protection in the Brute arsenal. Electric Armor covers more holes in it's own set later, with a passive. Fire Armor has the oddity of not having it's mezz protection actually consist of being in another toggle. It has resistance to the Hold, Stun, and Sleep that every melee set has. All other sets have better stat protection. It does, however, also hold the only shining light of Dark Armor. Psi resistance, at 37.5 percent. Slotted for resist, Obsidian Shield will cause you to have absolutely no fear of Psi damage ever. Sounds like a great strength for the set, doesn't it? .... Electric Armor does it almost as well with it's own mezz protection toggle, at 26.3, and doesn't suffer from the same serious holes that Dark Armor suffers. Obsidian Shield does provide Dark Armor with Fear resistance, but that is an uncommon status effect, and of no great benefit outside of PVP.
5. Dark Regeneration: This power is a click that heals you, and the amount of the heal increases with each target. This power is hands down, the backbone of the dark armor set. It's what you should, if you choose to avoid the advice given here, should six slot and stick under your arm, because it's going to be your CRUTCH. It will prevent you from being completely worthless in PVE, and will contribute to the comical effect lots of Dark Armor players will see, referred to as the "Magical Color change health bar!" I will now let you in on a well kept secret. For what it does, Dark Regeneration is horrible. IT is the cause of all of the cries and complaints of "My Endurace is gone!" from Dark Armor users, IT is the cause of Dark Armor never being useful for anything other than dealing with minions. IT is the reason that when someone says "Hey, Brute guy, go tank that AV" you will either reply "You need another brute", or try it and die. It sets the stage for what Dark Armor is extremely capable of dealing with effectively.
The same trash every other AT can deal with that doesn't even have armor. Unslotted, it takes 33.8 of your endurance. That's right. This power alone, when used, will drain 1/3rd of your blue bar. It will, however, give you back 30 percent of your health for each target it hits. So, in theory, you leap into the pile of enemies, and activate it to regain all of your health bar as long as you have at least 3 enemies around you! It sounds great, doesn't it? It is...except you have weaker resistances than most sets, so when you dive into a pile of enemies and get aggro, you take more damage, prompting you to cough up 1/3rd to 1/5th of your endurance faster ((depending on slotting.)) Then you also have to concern yourself with the fact it actually has an accuracy requirement. If for any reason, your accuracy is severely debuffed, or you are dealing with a foe with good defense, you will weep as you cast off a healthy portion of your endurance bar for absolutely no effect. Also, versus a single target, you will gain less healing. When are you normally facing a single target? When.. you're fighting an AV, or a Player. Things that will gleefully rip through your tissue paper thin resistances.
Its a must take power, because you can't live withhout it, and it's horrible, because it only elevates you to the role of tanking multiple minions and lieutenants.
Out of all the melee armor self heal powers, it's hands down the worst in execution.
6. Cloak of Darkness: This is toggle provides 3.75 defense to All, +Perception, Stealth, and Immobilize. +Perception and Stealth are nice for PvP, unfortunately, the rest of the set is laughable for this function. The immobilize protection is not something you can't get elsewhere, and if you choose to go the Combat Jumping route, you'd still get 1.8 defense instead of 3.75. It's overall, a pretty subpar power, specially considering it's endurance cost of .26/s.
7. Cloak of Fear: One of the utility/flavor powers in Dark Armor. Provides a PBAOE fear effect of magnitude 3 that lasts 7.5 seconds. It also provides a -5 percent to-hit. This -sounds- good on paper, until you realize a few things. One, it leaks endurance at a rate of 0.52/s. Two, it doesn't apparently stack with it's own effect, so the to-hit debuff is minimal. Three, it only affects things in melee range of you. Four, since it inflicts Fear, which stops incoming attacks, it actually impairs your damage, due to fury loss from what could be gained if the enemies were attacking you. This power shows off why Dark Armor is actually bad for brutes. You don't want to take a lot of attacks, or your subpar resistances will cause you to be overwhelmed by damage. It has toggles that prevent things from attacking you, for this purpose. Things that DONT attack you DO NOT generate fury.
Ponder that last sentence for a moment, while I break out a brief history note. There were going to be Ice Melee/Ice Armor brutes in CoV, at one point. They were scrapped, before leaving beta. Why? Because, the sets caused enemies to attack less, thus causing less Fury to be generated. Yet Dark Armor relies on this, to actually have the Dark Armor user stay alive.
8. Oppressive Gloom: Another Utility/Flavor power. This one provides a PBAOE Mag 2 Stun, with a duration of 7.2 seconds. For each foe hit, you also lose a minor amount of HP. It's endurance cost is cheap, at .08/s, but it still sufferes from being required to be in melee range, and then also causing loss of fury generation.
9. Soul Transfer: Tier 9. Most Brute Armor sets, in this slot, feature a power that pushes you over the top temporarily, covering your weak spots, making your strengths stronger, with some form of penalty afterwards. They're the sets last resort, for when things go bad, and are designed to cover you instead of letting you die. Dark Armor is instead built around the inevitability the set provides. With the sub standard resistances, situational healing, no worthwhile defense, and heck, a power that slowly kills you itself, you will be dying. Soul Transfer, at this point, provides you with the ability to ressurect yourself, inflicting a magnitude 30 stun for a duration of 11 seconds. You can slot for that duration, increasing it to a full 30 seconds. But this is not a full heal, or even full endurance. It instead provides a 19 percent heal for HP, and 30 for endurance, for each target hit. It will also do 41.7 damage. Again, this is another power that is made for that situation where you have gathered a lot of lower class mobs around, gotten overwhelmed, and died. You can then ress and pick them off while they wobble helplessly, stunned. Except, the strong point of the set, the crutch mentioned earlier, Dark Regeneration, makes your dying in these situations less likely. Instead, you're more likely to see this arise when there's only a few very strong enemies, and if they're AVs, they will simply swat you back down before you can even turn back on your toggles. The power is supposed to provide an untouchable period, but it's delayed by a quarter of a second, and NPCs that resist the stun will very HAPPILY take shots at you during that window. For the sake of brevity, Im not going to go over the problems with the power in arena matches.
Also, since there's a requirement for a live target to generate the heal and ress, there will sometimes be times due to lag, DoT, lousy timing where, by the time you realize you've died, and activate the Soul Transfer power, your team has killed everything around you. It's not common, but its a problem the other superior self resses don't have. Just as a point of comparison, you can, with slotting, get Rise of the Phoenix, Fire Armor's tier 9, to heal you for 97 percent of your HP and END. Even at base, it does 50/50. It also does Knockback, and 111.22 Fire damage to everything in range, with another 14.9 second stun, magnitude 4. Aside from the stun, it is obvious leaps and bounds better, and also ALWAYS works. Willpower's self ress, which is a tier 8, heals for 75 percent HP, 50 endurance, and buffs your damage by 35 percent, your to-hit by 30 percent, and your Recharge by 30 percent, for 90 seconds, followed by a 45 second period where these stats will be reduced.
It should be pointed out, that the issues with Dark Armor on a brute cannot be properly pointed out without some comparisons to other sets.
1. Electric Armor: The set features across the board, the highest resist numbers of every Brute Secondary, with one "hole" that can be plugged by it's tier 9. It's weak spot is supposed to be it's lack of a heal, one would guess. This can -easily- be fixed with a well-slotted aid self, making Electric Armor, in my personal opinion THE set to choose if your main concern is survivability.
A quick glance at it's numbers, with all resist powers taken, versus Dark Armor's with all resist powers taken. Ill place the Tier 9 boosted numbers for Elec in a seperate column. These numbers are for unslotted resists.
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Electric Electric w/ Tier 9 Dark
Smash: 26.3 78.8 22.5
Lethal: 26.3 78.8 22.5
Energy: 61.9 90((capped, true 121.88)) 15
Negative:22.5 67.5 30
Fire: 26.3 78.8 22.5
Cold: 26.3 78.8 22.5
Psionic: 26.3 26.3 37.5
Toxic: 0. 52.5 15
</pre><hr />
Hands down, Electric Armor is the better set. Electric Armor, with grounded, provides situational knockback protection, which dark armor does not offer. Electric Armor also provides multiple ways to conserve and boost endurance, and teleport protection. The only things that Dark does that Electric Armor isn't ever capable of, is Fear resistance, slightly better Psionic resist, and the Fear and Stun toggles, which as described as above, are actually counteractive to the Brute's strongpoint. Dark Armor also, to cover the knockback hole, has to invest 3 powers and be locked into a travel power, the leaping pool, for Acrobatics. Electric Armor covers it's hole with 2 power in the Medicine pool to get Aid Self.
Review my notes on Dark Regeneration above, and then note this is where I think Dark falls sorely behind. Aid Self provides 19.6 percent health unslotted, at 13 endurance, with a recharge of 20 seconds. It has scary text implying it's interruptible nature, but do not be afraid. With slotting of interrupt reductions, you can actually cut the time it can be broken to under half a second, making it a non issue. And it -never- requires a target. Meanwhile Dark Regeneration takes nearly a third of your endurance bar unenhanced, takes 30 seconds to recharge, and heals 30 percent for every target around you. It yields larger results, but at a higher cost, and only in the right situations. Needless to say, Dark Regeneration against an AV will not be worthwhile.
To top it off, when the going gets tough for Electric Armor, you click Power Surge for the above second set of numbers for resists, making you harder to kill. When the going gets tough for Dark Armor, you die. It's the way the set is designed.
2. Energy Aura: This set is a completely different beast from most Brute sets. I have stood toe to toe back to back, and in battle against this set, and Dark Armor falls short. Of note is the fact it's lack of a heal can be completely undone with two powers dipped into the medicine pool for Aid Self, and Energy Aura by design will decrease the likelihood of it being interrupted. Being built around the concept of defense, a number comparison means very little, however, one note should be pointed out for post level 38 play. When the going gets tough for Energy Aura, you pop Overload, get 45 percent more defense to all but Psionic and Toxic, and additional 40 percent Hitpoints, and a bonus to recovery for the duration of the power. When the going gets tough for Dark Armor, you die. It's the way the set is designed.
3. Fire Armor: This set is probably the closest, true side to side competitor with Dark Armor. It suffers the same lack of an ability to exceed it's own expectations, and is given a self ressurection power instead. Yet, as pointed out in the Soul Transfer notes above, the self ressurection from Rise of the Phoenix exceeds Soul Transfer due to the amount of life healed. There are a few other reasons, that for a brute, Fire Armor is superior to Dark Armor. I'll provide them for you now, but first, let's just match up the numbers. Note: The Toxic resistance is a result of Healing Flames, and only is in effect for 60 seconds after it is used. The parentheses beside the Fire and Cold numbers are for the set without Temperature Protection, as it's widely known as a power that should be uttely disregarded in any build. But, the resistance is still actually there to be taken.
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Fire Dark
Smash: 22.5 22.5
Lethal: 22.5 22.5
Energy: 22.5 15
Negative:22.5 30
Fire: 67.5 (45) 22.5
Cold: 15 (7.5) 22.5
Psionic: 0 37.5
Toxic: 15 15 </pre><hr />
On paper, the sets seem to have a few differences, with Dark being overall across the board more capable, but Fire Armor having higher peaks. So, why is Fire Armor the better choice? Because, once you look past the basics of resistances, Fire Armor provides the Brute more of what it needs, and less flash that is actually counterproductive. Healing Flames is completely superior to Dark Regeneration once slotted, due to a lack of need for a target, a comparable heal, and a lower end cost. Fire Armor also provides the tool of Consume, which while Dark Armor is focused on leaking your endurance out of every hole it can, Fire Armor is providing you a way to recover it. Finally, Fiery Embrace just flat out says, here, more damage for you. It's not exactly a second build up, as it has no to-hit buff, but it does an equal damage buff (80) to Build Up to most damage types, with an extra 20 percent damage for fire. Burn, provided you have a means to lock a foe down, can provide a portion of damage. Meanwhile Cloak of Fear and Oppresive Gloom are actively causing your fury generation to drop. Bottom line? Dark Armor has weak resists, and says "Please don't hit me!" Fire Armor has weak resists, but says "Im going to KILL YOU FIRST". Now, which do you think is more brute like?
4. Invulnerability: Invuln is an odd case. Direct number to number comparison will not do justice, as it relies on a mix of defense and resistance to do it's job, but it still, when compared to Dark Armor for the purpose of keeping you alive, does a better job. Of note, Invulnerability provides a 40 percent heal, and 40 percent more HP, on a click, at unslotted levels, for 10.4 endurance. It is up much less often than Dark Regeneration, but it does provide the ability to take more abuse with the Max HP increase. The Invincibility power encourages the same "wade into the masses" style as Dark Armor as a whole does, but rewards you with accuracy bonuses, ensuring more damage dealt out by you, and defense bonuses. These bonuses increase, with the more mobs around you. In a direct comparison, Invuln and Dark Armor almost seem equal, except for one minor detail. When the tough gets going for Invulnerable, you pop Unstoppable and become harder to kill with a 52.5 resist bonus to everything but Psi, and a recovery bonus. When the going gets tough for Dark Armor, you die. It's the way the set is designed.
5. Stone Armor: Stone Armor is another set of defense and resistance mixed together. It includes a buff to your Max HP and your regeneration. And above all else, it provides Granite Armor, the permanent "you will never kill me" option. While Granite does have a weakness to Psi, its survivability is through the roof, though it does hamper your attack rate and damage somewhat. I don't have personal experience -playing- stone armor, but I've never heard anyone reccomend Dark Armor over it, especially when you consider Granite Armor is possibly one of the best survival tools in the game. And of course, having played beside Stone Armor Brutes, and PVPing against them, I can see why Dark Armor never would be recommended over it.
6. Willpower: Willpower is the new shining baby boy of Brute Defense. It's provides a mix of regeneration, resistance, and defense. It also includes Quick Recovery, and endurance regain is a godsend for brutes. It's tier 9 is not exactly a push to exceptional values, but it, paired with the sets regeneration capabilities, makes it much more durable in a fight. Since Willpower is currently a new set, I will need to give it an honest shot ((and honestly, get a better grasp of the regeneration mechanic)) to see exactly where it falls on the Brute chart of defensive sets. Regardless, rest assured, the mix of Regen, Resist, and Defense places it ABOVE Dark Armor, as shown by a few test runs with other Willpower players side by side. It also has the added benefit of having mezz protection that just about resists everything imaginable, so no need of any hole filling with 3 power slots from a travel pool. Also, Resurgence is of note as being a great self ress, as it doesnt just ress you, but provides you with the tools to do better against anything for the next 90 seconds, not just the things that were near you when you died.
In closing, when compared to the other Brute Armor sets, Dark Armor is a much weaker set. All sets provide "some" survivability. Where they shine or fall is their utility options. Electric Armor provides godly resist values, and can have it's lack of a heal substituted, and includes endurance recovery options. Energy Aura represents the defense camp, for what it's worth, and also has a tier 9 to push it to the limit, and can also have it's lack of a heal substiture. Fire Armor represents the camp of "Kill it faster than it kills you." Invulnerability is a tried and true mix of Defense and Resistance that is showing its age compared to new competitors in Electric and Willpower, but still has the ability to simply "try harder" in situations where it counts, with Unstoppable. Stone Armor is another mix of Defense and Resist, however, it goes to an extreme of not dying, with the ability to give up offense to increase survivability. Willpower provides a mix of lots of little things, with a nifty self ress if things go bad. And Dark Armor? Dark Armor provides you the ability to inflict fear and stun in an area of effect of melee range, and a self ress that props you up to get knocked back down by anything further than 25 feet away.
Think on that when you look over defense sets for your next brute. -
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Woodsmans Task Force (the Eden Trial) and the Maren MacGregor Task Force (aka the Sewer Trial) now have choice tables upon completion. Choice can be a Task Force recipe (i.e. a recipe from the Task Force pool), or the Multi-aspect Enhancement reward that these missions have normally given. Choosing the recipe counts as your once every three hours Task Force recipe reward for that character.
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Something else Red Side doesn't have access to. :P -
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I think you are one of the few that actually likes soul transfer.
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I love soul transfer. If you absolutely need to change it for the people that don't like soul transfer, allow it to be castable while you are still alive. Probably won't find many people who would argue too much with that.
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It'd be great in keeping with the theme of an armor set, and it's purpose, to, you know, keep you alive. -
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Those words and even the actions you're describing do nothing to ensure the "long term success" of the City of Heroes game, only the "brand name."
If you're the type of person who's fine with a "sequel" being released that is just going to require more super leet hardware to run and shelling out for a new game with a familiar brand name and starting over from scratch, then no, those terms won't bother you at all.
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But it is not the CoH "Game" that will bring NCSoft the most possible revenue over the long-haul, but the "Brand Name".
I'll keep this short, but just do some research for publically traded companies like Marvel or DC (via Warner reports):
Both Marvel and DC began their roots in comics. However, what brings in the most revenue for them, now? Not comics by a long-shot. Not even close. But, rather, licensing their I.P. to toys, merchandise, TV, cartoons, Films, et cetera. Leveraging and Licensing a "Brand Name" does just that, far more than being a "Game Publisher" or "Comic Book Publisher" ever will.
Trust me, I know. Being in the PnP RPG and novel/comic book business, I see it ever day and it HAS to be a part of the business plan (I.P. growth and potential licensing).
I talk to Shane Hensley a bit via email and at Cons (as we both have linking business relationships through other companies in the PnP Industry). Many will remember that Shane was once "Captain Mako" with Cryptic (and even did some of the design documentation for MUO) before leaving to once again work his PnP RPG company (Great White Games/Pinnacle Entertainment) full-time once again.
The strength in any game publishing . . . be it MMOs or PnP . . . is brand-name recognition and licensing. Look at all the WoW Licenses generating money for Blizzard (if not through royalties, then at least through the Minimum Guarantees that are paid for, up-front, from licensee or licensor). Look at the . . . in the past . . . Everquest licensing: collectible figures, RPG books, Novels, et cetera.
Look at all the Marvel and DC Licensing.
If leveraged right, super-heroes can be a very good commodity in animation, TV, and films.
NCSoft would be a questionable company if they didn't fully intend to do what is necessary to expand the City of Heroes/Villains I.P. into other branches.
Does this mean a new "not everything free" business model versus what we have now, to bring in more revenue for the game?
Does it mean a CoX Sequel?
I don't know. Only NCSoft will, and being publicly traded they can't release any information except before certain, regulated marks prior to release of something.
But the more revenue a Brand Name generates, the greater its licensing potential. The greater its licensing potential, the greater its potential growth.
Now, keep in mind, that follows because when a Brand Name is generating money, better licensees show an interest. Lincensees with the leverage and market penetration in their respective industries to do a lot of possible good for said Brand Name.
When a Brand Name is only Luke Warm, you get licensees like Eden Studios. I love Eden as a gamer. They make some great games.
But where is the CoH RPG for the past 3 years?
Where is the CoH CCG now from its licensee?
And THAT is not good for a licensor trying to build a brand name.
Unlike SWG (Star Wars), WAR (a long time franchise from Games Workshop), Age of Conan (that is obvious), Star Trek Online, Stargate Worlds Online, Pirates of the Burning Sea (following the coat-tails of the Disney movie craze), and a host of other MMOs due out . . . CoX is its own I.P. that, obviously I am sure, NCSoft wants to leverage in the growing super-hero licensing market (and it is).
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And that's the sort of marketing genius that brought the world "New Coke".
Bottom line, as a consumer, I don't care how much money NCSoft can make off of other products using the "brand name" of the product Im currently paying for. What I care about is the continued support of the current product, which the marketing terms and disclaimer laden speech is not in any real way ensuring. The second I catch wind that NCS is working on a "sequel" for higher end PCs and possibly PS3, and there's still no concrete plans for the current product beyond the next issue, I'm going to withdraw that support and see what else can be found. Heck, even the new job announcements that everyone is championing as NCSoft support for this game are actually stating the positions are for the "City of Heroes/Villains franchise.
The only things I've heard mentioned about the original game itself is that issue 12 is currently being worked on, and any longer term plans aren't being discussed at this time. -
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I wince at the uses of the words Product Line and IP in reference to the sale [...]
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I cannot disagree more with this sentiment. A total lack of business and commercial sense, which would be implied if we NEVER heard these terms, has killed a vast array of terrific projects, products, services and concepts. You may want to proceed blissfully through your play experience without imagining that your game is being delivered to you partly by "evil" marketeers, but if I like something, I'd like to see it last. CoH can't survive in the long term without a thoroughgoing understanding of marketecture on the part of its controlling interest; no MMO can.
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Those words and even the actions you're describing do nothing to ensure the "long term success" of the City of Heroes game, only the "brand name."
If you're the type of person who's fine with a "sequel" being released that is just going to require more super leet hardware to run and shelling out for a new game with a familiar brand name and starting over from scratch, then no, those terms won't bother you at all. -
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...
I dont want CoX to be on the way out. I dont want NCSoft to TREAT it like its on the way out. Id have been just fine with this announcement if it HADNT included gifts to valued customers.
But it did include gifts, and those gifts are aimed at just about everyone else who plays CoX. And then I go back and look at my Auto Assault gifts, and my Tabula Rasa gifts, and I shudder.
In the end, I really dont want gifts from NCSoft on a game I love. It just doesnt bode well.
Im happy to be proven wrong.
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We'll be happy to prove you wrong. I'd like to reiterate the statement, found in a couple places in the announcements: "We are now in a position to make a major reinvestment in the City of Heroes product line.
We're aren't staffing up to sit around and do nothing
Everyone here is very excited with the prospects and plans for the future!
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I wince at the uses of the words Product Line and IP in reference to the sale, it ranks right up there with Ex Lib saying "Players should see a difference".
I've seen a lot of voiced support for the CoH/V IP and "Product Line" but nothing confirmed for CoH itself past i12. -
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[u]5 small things[u]
<ul type="square">[*]Add rare recipe rewards to Siren's Call and Recluse's Victory minigames. (#1 with a bullet, not enough ingame reward for PVP in this game)[*]Siren's Call style bounty system throughout the zones (with rare recipe reward)[*]Arena map selection feature, including a "Random" selection[*]Turn off (nonworking) Arena System matches[*]Add villain/hero totals to zone /whoall display and include people on /hide in the totals, so players can get a general idea of activity level regardless of /hide[/list]
[u]5 bug fixes[u]
<ul type="square">[*]Fix PVP Placate and Fury[*]Fix Arena spawn camping (maybe not fixable, who knows) and/or generally clean up Arena respawn mechanics[*]Fix Arena Badges (yeah ok LOL badges, it would bring people into the live Arena)[*]Fix map holes (Arena and zone)[*]Fix PVP door missions. Whacking players who are zoning into the mission is BS, as is rezzing in a doorless jail cell.[/list]
[u]5 large-scale wishlist items [u]
<ul type="square">[*]Cross-server PVP[*]New Arena rewards and content (eg CTF, Battlegrounds or the like.. not just new maps, though those would be nice.. even a simple ranking list would boost the Arena)[*]Cooperative PVP zone with a phat-rewards minigame (allows hero+villain teams like RWZ)[*]True PVP missions, for example Hero vs Villain Safeguard/Mayhem[*]New minigames for Bloody Bay and Warburg with rare recipe rewards[*]Action on Villain/Hero patron/epic imbalance - there are several ways this could be done[/list]
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I can agree with all of those changes. -
Question!
Will this transaction have a positive impact on the Cathedral of Pain getting implemented and base raids being touched up and finalized, or are they essentially off the table now at this point? -
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In the end...Villains rule though and don't you forget it!
Ex
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lol Patron Pools prove this statement is a lie. Not the only thing villain side either, but it's all been beaten to death now. -
I've got a good question I think. Who retains ownership of the "Statesman" character? NCSoft or Jack Emmert? This sort of thing could have an effect on future canon and also any "live events" that may or may not be possible in the future.