Greyhawke

A fun read as always RM !

Poor Infurno *sniff*

Really like the suggestion to bind build up & fiery embrace to the same key. I'm also afraid that weave will have to come out of the build, but I guess its truly a blessing in disguise, since we need the slots. I halfway want to drop taunt as well, for all the good it does. But I guess i will keep it and hope that it will be slightly bumped. I'm also keeping my fingers crossed for either a complete drop of the fear effect on burn, or at least (and more likely) a return to the I4 effect.

One minor typo toward the end, just before the build, you mention 'Healing Aura' but its evident you meant 'Blazing Aura'

I'm definitely becoming a fan of the 6-slotted health camp, myself.

What's Havok's forum name on DDO? I'm there as greyhawke115. Unfortunately didn't make the first alpha, but here's hoping for soon . I was actually encouraged that they pushed out the release date.

For the CCG, will we be building our own characters as the game progresses or will we be playing with signature and/or already created generic heroes?

From the pen and paper game, how closely does the game tie to the online version. How will significant changes, such as I5, affect the PnP rules?

For the comic, can you get me a guest shot? Seriously, love the new Top Cow stuff and I'm really glad for your involvement there. I really like the alternating writers, but I am glad we have someone of your caliber keeping it all together.

Now on to the game. Like many, there are several ideas I would like to see implemented for missions and mission related quality of life issues. I'll just list them, and feel free to choose one or more to discuss any plans that may be on the table for any of them. Just treat each point as if it had a 'Will we ever see' attached to it

(1) Would really love to see a Mission Journal. So many of the good stories are lost to the void. Even the Story Arc recaps don't do them justice. I really love Red Tomax's recaps, but I'd love to see them automated in the game for all missions, as well as the possibility of exporting the text to the clipboard at least.

(2) Supergroup missions. I know you want to do them, and there are several good ideas floating around about different types. Mostly I would just like to know if there are any plans, and if so please start a thread asking for good constructive ideas.

(3) Lots more ways of alternative mission completion. especially relying on the strengths of ATs that are not primarily damage dealers. And on the flip side, more clear mission objectives on existing missions. I hate stealthing a mission for glowies or hostages with my controller only to find out it was a defeat all mission after all.

(4) Using the arena system for flashback missions as well as using similar code to run repeatable 'danger room' type missions. These missions would actually not be for XP, but rather for the pure challenge and story. For example, allowing an instanced mission versus the Kronos Titan. Perhaps having team rankings for fastest times or fewest people on the team for each mission. Basically take advantage of the existing arena code to really enhance the PvE game.

Jack,

Respectfully, have you played with Burn on test? The fear effect is NOT the same as what is on live at the moment. The I5 test server AI reaction to Burn makes it completely counterproductive to the tank's role.

Please test this for a bit before dismissing the complaints about I5 Burn. 30 minutes or so in a mid sized group should be convincing, especially if you are the only tanker and there aren't any controllers. The I5 scatter effect is just too great. Balance is fine, variety is great, but making the power completely go against the principles of the Archetype is too much.

For the record I approve of the damage change, and overall the recharge change though I think its a bit too high, possibly needing dropped by 6-10 seconds base.

Also, please consider how many people are suggesting that if this fear effect must stay, that they would rather burn be removed from the tanker set altogether. Surely those who play this AT day in and day out would not be making this request in such earnest if it were not well founded.

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And Recluse's thread will be tons dealing with ..
When is CoV coming out for beta yada yada yada

We already know poor States thread will be full of more I hate I5's and Why did you do this after a year and that after a year.

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I figure that is why those guys appear last on the list. CoV will be in beta and I5 will be live before it gets to those guys.

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Heh, well if I read that right it will be at least 9 weeks before we are on 'Ask Statesman' and 11 weeks before we are asking questions of Lord Recluse, so it may be 'What's up with the rumor that tanks and scrappers will be merged in I6' and 'Are beta testers going to get to reserve names when CoV goes live'

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If any answers are of the "soon", or "I can't say much" or "we haven't decided yet" variety.........I WILL shoot someone.

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Don't worry, he's only using Nerf Arrows

I do think that the developer *should* be able to answer a question in this manner, however, they should also answer an additional question for each vague answer given, so we get at least six answers with substance. I would prefer to see a 'I can't say much about that just now' rather than assume they avoided the question or did not think it worthy of answering.

Short version:
Like most who actually play a fire tanker, I think the panic and scatter effect has got to go. Scattering mobs is the complete opposite of what a tank needs to be doing. However, I do agree with the damage change, it's a spot on adjustment. I have mixed feelings about the recharge increase. Overall I felt it was at least ten seconds too long (I don't have hasten on this character).

Longer Version:
My test results last night found this power almost completely unusuable and not at all needed in its current form. Most of this was due to the panic & scatter effect. Mobs would take a couple of ticks of damage at most, and no amount of taunt or punchvoke would bring them back in. Even mobs with primarily melee attacks would use their ranged attacks rather than come back. As I said in the short version, this is completely contrary to what a tank wants to happen. Let's be clear, this is the number one issue with Burn and it must be fixed or this power will be passed over.*

Again I felt the damage was scaled well. This was about the drop in damage I expected to see after reading the patch notes. No real complaints here.

The recharge, however, needs some work for a couple of reasons. First, combined with the increased panic & scatter the mobs aren't in it long enough to justify the recharge.I don't see another six-slotted power in the game with this kind of recharge doing this little damage to an even con minion. Six slotted brawl has better DPS. Again my perception is probably skewed from the fear effect, but this is the reality of the power as of the current test build.

Second, as I mentioned this character does not have hasten. However, it seems that you have now balanced the recharge based on characters that do. This change basically forces hasten into my build. It is a disturbing trend lately to see 'balance' changes always occuring with hasten as a given, basically making builds without hasten obsolete. If this is the new balance standard, it may be time to seriously consider making hasten an inherent power.

Overall I didn't mind the recharge increase, I just felt it went to far. Drop the base down by about 10 seconds and I think you will have this one nailed.

Sumarry:
Ditch the panic & scatter and lower the recharge 10 seconds or so and I like the change. Leave the panic & scatter and you might as well ditch the power. Leave the recharge and you are forcing hasten. I will adjust to that much, but I don't like it and I think you need to seriously consider what effect this is having on the game (basically forcing players into cookie cutter builds to remain effective).



*On the off chance that getting people to skip this power IS the goal, please move immobilization protection to another power and get rid of burn altogether. Add another blazing aura type power or perhaps a PBAoE 'Choke' effect. Personaly I prefer the flavor of fire tanks having a damage component, but that may just be me..

Add me to the list that is confused as to why this is just an ice tanker change? This seemingly affects everyone, although Ice tankers and SR scrappers may benefit the most, along with bubblers (somewhat). Of course I would also be asking what we really acheved by reducing defense across the board and reducing accuracy across the board...

Anyway, while these changes are an improvement over what is currently on test, I think there will always be a great disparity between resistance and defense because of the 5% minimum. One out of 20 are always going to hit and that one hit is often very significant, sometimes fatal. I still like the solution that 'excess' defense be converted to resistance in some ratio, it doesn't necessarily have to follow 1 to 1, but something.

Very nice site Zloth. While I think it would ruiin the feel to include all of the balance changes on this page, it would be very handy and informative to have another linked page detailing all of the tweaks, adjustments, improvements, and downright nerfs that we have seen throughout the life of the game. We used to be able to access these patch notes directly on the main site, but no longer. I may still have some of the patch notes. If you need them, let me know via PM.

Can't really say what I will do. If they go live with the Invuln changes at all, I probably will shelve my Invuln if I stay in the game. The longer we go without feedback from the devs, even on such an easy to answer point of 'Are the Invuln changes intended or a bug' the less likely I am to be seeing this through.

Anyway, just as an exercise here's what things might look like if the changes do go live. Didn't even bother with energies and elements, kept the Unyielding for the mez proetection and hope to offset the def drop later in the build with Weave (at a friends suggestion). Also gave up superspeed to provide a path to acrobatics. Probably won't slot unyielding for anything more than one end reduction. This build probably needs unstoppable sooner, but by 44 at the absolute latest. Is it playable? Maybe if you don't fight more than your alloted three minions. But it's sure not SUPER, man.

01 : Jab
01 : Temp Invulnerability
02 : Punch
04 : Dull Pain
06 : Hasten
08 : -Comabt Jumping-
10 : Haymaker
12 : -Unyielding-
14 : -Super Jump-
16 : Swift
18 : Invincibility
20 : Health
22 : Stamina
24 : Knockout Blow
26 : -Acrobatics-
28 : Rage
30 : -Boxing-
32 : -Tough-
35 : -Weave-
38 : Foot Stomp
41 : Conserve Power
44 : -Unstoppable-
47 : -Resist Physical-
49 : -Laser Beam Eyes -

Oh, and Kimmie, season 2 of JLU is WAY better!

I really have enjoyed the missions that I have found with these changes. I do wish they were easier to identify from the contact briefing, so I would make sure not to skip a changed mission

I've played every blaster primary to level 20, and my main is a level 50 elec/dev. As a blaster, my health has three states. Full, half, and faceplant. The 3% boost to blaster hit points won't change this. No offense meant to Jack, but his blaster defiance post sounded like an April Fool's joke.

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You should also work with your Tanker to coordinate aggro. You may wish to enter a battle first to take a load of damage, then have a Tanker come in and taunt (or punch-voke) enemies off you once you are in Defiance range.

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Seriously Jack have you ever taken an Alpha Strike from a group of mobs as a blaster? I started to challenge the fact that the tanker COULD acquire aggro off of you with the taunt changes, but then I realized the tank would have no problem. Dead blasters don't draw aggro

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If you have a healing Defender in your group, you should ask them to not heal you unless you are in imminent danger of being defeated.

[/ QUOTE ]This is exactly the kind of statement we were afraid we would hear when discussion of desperation first began. To hear it from the lead developer of the game is disheartening.

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Defiance range, you should use defensive Inspirations (or defense buffs from other players) to manage your Health loss to a reasonable rate.

[/ QUOTE ]Defense really doesn't help here. If everything misses you are at 100%. If one shot hits you are down to 50%. Two shots take you out. However, I will give you that the new sonic debuff (hate the name) set may be the blasters best friend in this regard.

I realize all of that sounds quite negative, which is sad because overall I like the concept of defiance. Like many, however, I really believe that defiance needs to be given to scrappers and give the blasters criticals. Blasters are the marksmen, scrappers are the tenacious sort that would only hit harder the more damage they took, and I know a lot of scrappers that pride themselves on 'living in the red'. I know at this point it might look weird to switch them, but it would definitely be a much better fit for the archetypes.

Thanks for listening

Havok, I really hope you change your mind, but if you don't, I understand. I thank you for making this a better game for me.

What some may not understand is why you are so frustrated. There are many who say 'they will roll back these changes, at least a little, before it goes live." What they don't understand is that it doesn't really matter if they do. As I see it, there are three possibilities.

(1) They are playing us. The old bait and switch routine, as some are callling it. Hit us harder than they really intend, then roll it back to the true nerf so they can say they listened.

(2) Its a mistake. A typo. One they didn't catch through the QA process.

(3) The change is legit. They really believe this is the right thing for the game.

If it is (1) then you have to wonder at a development team that would show the players such blatant disrespect. If its (2) then you have to wonder at a development team that would show such a major change such blatant disregard. One thing their regen tests should have shown them was to triple check the numbers. If it is (3) then you have to wonder how, as players, we have managed to believe in a completely different game for so long.

Like Havok, it's not the numbers that is stressing me, it's my shattered faith in the dev team, specifically regarding balance issues. If they had not made the sweeping changes to tankers and controllers, I5 would have received its laurels as the best release to date. With them, it may be the straw to the proverbial camel for many, if not for the game as a whole.

Try this thread for some notes on number changes to Inv. I think these were the latest numbers that Havok put together from people's posts.

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Here's where we sit:

TI 30% S/L RES (Verified by 3 testers)
RPD 7.5% S/L RES (Verified by 3 testers)
RElD 7.5% F/C RES (Verified by 1 tester)
REnD 7.5% E/N RES
UY 5% S/L/F/C/E/N RES (Verified by 3 testers)

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Best I can tell is that vs Smashing/Lethal we are still ok, and vs everything else we need to hide behind the DA Scrapper

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I had TI, Invin, and Unyeilding on, and I fell in under 10 seconds at level 26.

I felt like a squishie. Not good.


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Well, I won't be home til late to test, so I was hoping for some reassuring news. This wasn't it. Try some council and report back Kimmie. Maybe Fir Bolgs have Psi? Ok shot in the dark, I know. But dang it she's supposed to be Kara, not Ballerina Barbie!

Grrr.

A very entertaining read, and informative. Thanks much !

My kheldian thanks you !

I did both, thanks for the advice Havoc

*Waits patiently for the I5 Inv/SS and Spines/Regen guides*

Edit (Missed Kimmie's reply): Well, it is still fun to toss one villain in the air repeatedly or several in the air once or twice then turn it off. I'll still keep it for concept on my Superspeed Scrapper. However, maybe something will come of the bug report other than 'working as intended' *crosses fingers*

Well I went back to test today with my level 50. Thought I would post here the initial observations to help Kimmie decide what she might like to do, but I think ultimately I am going to post a bug and see if it gets a response.

I repec'd into whirlwind and stamina both six slotted. Tests were all with stamina six slotted with end recovery SOs (which really doesn't matter I guess, we're tracking End usage not End recovery).

For whirlwind I bought even level SOs to keep the math simple. Whirlwind with zero enhancements used ~3 End each time a mob was tossed into the air. Tested this on various level mobs from even cons in Peregrine to level 7s in Perez. It did not matter if the mob was a Minion, Lt. or Boss (for End usage anayway). Each mob tossed equaled approximately three end lost. The actual number is probably between 3.2 and 3.5 or so, as 3 mobs dropped 10 end, not 9 or 11. My best guess is that it's 3.45 as a mob stays in the air 3 seconds so this would bring you back to the cost of 1.15 end/sec we commonly see used for whirlwind, with the qualifier being this is per mob affected.

So, I added one SO to the power. No change in end cost to toss a mob. I added SOs one at a time until I reached six. No change in end, still ~3 each time a mob was tossed, and still ~10 when three were tossed. IF end reduction were affecting this cost I /think/ you would expect 6 SOs to bring this to ~1 per mob tossed.

As for exact numbers, honestly I am not interested in spending the time to get more precise. The numbers I have are close enough to show 'something is amiss' IMNSHO.

Thanks for listening

Cool pics! Thanks for sharing !

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Heh ... that's good stuff. I wish they had conferences here in Omaha so I could meet Jack ... unfortunately there's not much cool here besides me

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I would have swore you lived in Kansas Supe... err I mean Havok

Do you think it would be worthwhile to post a bug regarding the lack of end reduction from enhancements for the second end cost of the power?

For my concept Superjump is a must and Superspeed isn't in character, and propably not hover (though I may try to work it in at 49 in place of unstoppable). So its a 'Not Quite Superman' Build . I'm still looking at what I want to do, so I am waiting to 24 to do the respec (23 now). Currently my character doesn't have temp invuln at all, but I am planning to respec close to Havok's build. To get Superjump I will likely move resist elements to 32 and Air Superiority to 35, then take combat jumping at 12 and Superjump at 14.

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Yes, you CAN run Whirlwind and still come out ahead on Endurance!

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Ok, I just have to discuss this. It came up in another thread and I had been meaning to ask Havoc about it since he is a big whirlwind proponent. Running whirwind seems to be ok, but actually using it? I took my superspeed scrapper to test and six slotted whirlwind with end reduction. I also picked up stamina, but she wasn't high enough to slot it after putting them in whirwind. Anyway, three minions drained the bar as fast as ever.

Now, in the thread I linked above, there was mention of *two* endurance costs for whirlwind, which has always been my understanding. There is the cost to have it on (1.15 end/sec or something) and then there is an added cost of end/enemy in range each time the power ticks. What the poster mentioned in that thread, and what I didn't realize but after observing seems to be true, is that this added cost per enemy does not seem to be affected at all by the end reduction enhancements in the power. My question would be 'Is this a bug, or working as intended?'

I never enter these myself, but my son wins a ton of these on various servers. He really enjoys participating and seeing what costumes others put forward as well.

And great guidelines there Greystar, maybe you should make it a guide

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It's concept art for the Arachnos Crab Spiders.

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Well it does beg the questions...

Are there new powers exclusive to CoV

If so what are they?

Ok, I'll try that. She was, however, the first contact I spoke to after reaching 35. Maybe one of my 30-34 contacts still has me on an open arc, I'll check.

Thanks much