Gorgog

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define experts

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"a spert under pressure" as my dad used to say .

Actually dont really get it but still... Think "expert" is very subjective but was going on recent performance.

Its a pitty that people do seem to be trying to argue who the "best" pvp SG or teams are, (not aiming this at you).

As far as I see it these matches are all about having fun and learning more about teaming and what you can do. Would be a pitty if it ended up with RL competition.

Gorgog

P.S. Honestly though is there a way to read their posts? My French is very poor .

Does anyone know how I can translate the French posts into English?

As it stands they are the experts, (if we are going by week by week fights to date), and nobody else.

Gorgog

If your in there tonight Ill bring my Rad/Psi. None of his attacks are slotted and only level 20 still, (want to get accolades b4 I am too high for SC), but I do want to test him out more.

Maybe we could try a few fights, insps not allowed .

Gorgog

Well well, your Bil. Not been in SC for a while but always complain with my chars Big Bob and Master Fau when your not about. Your Dom was getting to be the only real fun in there, (save for Frosthound teaming up with a stalker).

Gorgog

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You won't be winning fights against Scrappers or Tanks anytime soon

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You've been watching the wrong Corruptors then.

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Think he was refering to Ice/Kin in SC without stamina, or do some corruptors pull that off without a team? If so then there is your answer .

Gorgog

Hehe, hope you dont mind me spamming your thread.

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but you also said some things which could be confusing about Acrobatics so I was trying to make this clear.


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Yup, sorry, its just some think acrobatics is going to save em from holds as stat protection can.

Best chain I can think of is Fear (drops mosts ppl onto the ground) followed up with tar patch (prevents SJ or slotted CJ). Also a hold before and after fear, 3 seconds is a real problem for most ATs and Defender (Aka Stalker Bait ) is often high on peoples target list IMO.

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I was also considering going down the PSI Mastery epic pool as well to get a further hold.

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Nice choice, gets 2 holds in fact and Telekinesis is a very nice power, but costly.

On my Defender, since he is more of an Offender, Ill probably take Primal Forces for Power Boost at it will inhance secondary effects on primary and secondary sets, (hopefully good for Rad/Psi and maybe worth considering for DM/Psi).

Gorgog

As I say not at all arguing with you Filth, just not tested it enough. Main point I am making though is refering to MaXimillion's statement:
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You might consider that stun power from psi blast (name escapes me now) to drom acrobatics so your holds will get people with it better.

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Since Scramble Thoughts takes 3 seconds to activate and DM has fear and a hold I personaly would avoid ST like the plague. Also while I do have acrobatics on all my chars I would say expirience has led me to believe Animal_Mutha should not have too much of a problem holding people, (then again DM's hold does have quite a long recharge rate).

Also still think that putting an Immob in Subdue will do little as the Immob is random and has little chance of sticking in PvP.

Gorgog

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Union
Trolls:Ill/Rad,MC/Rad,Fire/Storm
Blap:Ice/Nrg
Offender:Rad/Psi
Tank:Ice/Stone

Vilians
Stalker:Spines/Regen
Corrupter:Ice/Rad
Brute:Stone/EM

Messed up my Ice/Nrg for Sc by taking out stam early, conserve power doesnt seem to help much . Ice just seems to drain so much I think it may be hard going.

Or is the question any AT? Think all mine have stamina, you may be able to kill one person without it but for team fights that can go on for hours stamina helps loads, (apart from the ATs Filth mentioned and even there an active stalker can do with having it).

Gorgog

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Union
Trolls:Ill/Rad,MC/Rad,Fire/Storm
Blap:Ice/Nrg
Offender:Rad/Psi
Tank:Ice/Stone

Vilians
Stalker:Spines/Regen
Corrupter:Ice/Rad
Brute:Stone/EM

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3) ... Acobatics is taken for knockdown not hold res for most as its hold protection is only Mag 1, your hold will easy bypass acrobatics.


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In fact it will not. Acrobatics adds a Mag 1 Hold resistance to a player's base of 2, which gives you a Mag3 Hold resist of 3. This means you are protected from one application of a typical Mag3 single target Hold. Two Holds will succeed against Acrobatics, or a critical from a Controller, or a single Hold from a Dominator with Domination, or a Hold power which is greater than Mag3 in the first place.

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5) Hold and even more so fear are very very useful and the hold will allow you to drop CJ and acrobatics on many players thus making Subdue and Tele. Blast more effective.

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Again, a single Hold will not drop acrobatics, also although Fear can be extremely effective I've noticed that escaping from someone who has feared me isn't that difficult. Many times I've super-jumped away from being feared while still being affected by Fear, since Fear doesn't drop toggles and allows you some action - attack or movement - it does have limitations that Holds don't. Fear really scores against Scrappers and Tanks who usually don't have Fear resistance except for those with Dark Armour.

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Acrobatics is a strange one and next time I am in the arena ill check it again. As far as I know players have the same mag vs hold as minions, i.e. Mag 1 so acrobatics makes it Mag 2.

In more real terms though from playing about 2hrs a day in SC as well as dueling in warburg and arena constanly anyone trying to hold can easily get a hold on someone running acrobatics.

Whatever answer further testing comes up with the fact is that acrobatics rarely if ever will protect anyone from someone trying to hold them, if it did people wouldnt have a tray full of BFs when entering PvP, (even scrappers and tanks if they are wise) .

When feared I tend to put SJ back on and jump out of reach after the next hit, however if your chain is hold,fear,hold you will not only certainly break through acrobatics but also give them no chance to escape....short of a BF. Edit:Fear and Tar Patch will also prevent anyone SJing away.

Argument really in regards to acrobatics vs hold was that its not worth getting Scrabble Thoughts.

If you do want to test what works well I would love to test out build combos with any of my chars on the test server Animal_Mutha as I am always up for PvP fights . In fact is your SG is also getting into it maybe we can get teams set up similar to the monday matches?

Edit: Psionic for doms unfortuantely is complete and utter poo poo . In order to understand how much it really does suck you just have to see they get Mental Blast(worst Psi attack possible), as their 4th power!!!!

Gorgog

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Union
Trolls:Ill/Rad,MC/Rad,Fire/Storm
Blap:Ice/Nrg
Offender:Rad/Psi
Tank:Ice/Stone

Vilians
Stalker:Spines/Regen
Corrupter:Ice/Rad
Brute:Stone/EM

Wish I could be but have work to sneak in for uni before anyone realises its a day late .

Keeping fingers crossed for Union and Defiant teams .

Gorgog

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I bet your a Tanks worse nightmare in the arena.

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Yup everyone hates fights that go on for 2hrs without a kill .

Most players will put on CJ the second they are immobed, if they are held or feared you dont need the immob .

Also any serious PvP people will have BFs.

End of the day if you have the slots try them out, PvE immob in subdue is a good idea, PvP I wouldnt take it.

Edit: sorry to waffle on but also worked out on builder that Psi attacks 2Acc,2Dam,2Recharge can have a brawl DPS of ~6.9 compared to a fire/nrg blaster's 7.1 (not including buildup and aim). Figures may well be wrong but if not and taking Psi isnt resisted much it seems nice (esp. with epic Power Buildup, +50%Acc +50%Dam).

Gorgog

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Hello All,

I'm sure this is a much posted on topic but the ol' SG is getting into PvP in a big way and crying out for PvP builds. Seeing as defenders have been much maligned recently I thought I would give one a go.

I have rolled a Dark/PSI defender. Please could you answer some of the questions below and provide some ideas for this build;

1. I really like Subdue from the PSI secondary. If slotted with Immobilisation enhancers (2x Acc 2x Dam 2x Immob) does this produce a reasonable immob in PvP.
2. What is the magnitude for defender holds? Is this viable in PvP?
3. What other powers in the PSI secondary should I be slotting for secondary effects?
4. Going to get Fearsome Stare and Petrifying Gaze. Again, how effective are they in PvP?
5. With everyone rushing out to get Perception enhancing powers are the Acc debuffs in the Dark M set still viable or do they get "burnt" through?


Cheers. Responses will be gratefully recieved.

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Hi Animal_Mutha nice to see someone trying out Defender for PvP. Posted a Rad/Psi build on PvP/Arena board a while back. Dont know how team orientated youll be but if you have slots free for attacks here are a few thoughts:

1) I would slot subdue 2Acc,3Dam,1Recharge (or range). Reason being that you need to boost your dam as much as possible (at least if you are solo). Also the imob is very random and many people have CJ or will use a BF so slotting for imob is probably a waste. Would slot the 3 main attacks likewise.

2) Attack chain is Tele. Blast,Subdue,Will Domination. With hasten these can be very effective but dont count on any secondary effects to stick.

3) Since you have a hold from dark I would skip Scramble Thoughts (Psi disorient). It takes about 3 seconds to activate and youll find you really have to be mobile as a defender. It will not really help vs acrobatics. Acobatics is taken for knockdown not hold res for most as its hold protection is only Mag 1, your hold will easy bypass acrobatics.

4) Chances are -Acc will not have a huge effect on PvP builds, most people will have as much +Acc on them as possible.

5) Hold and even more so fear are very very useful and the hold will allow you to drop CJ and acrobatics on many players thus making Subdue and Tele. Blast more effective.

Worth slotting your movement powers such as swift,hurdle and CJ as suppressed movement is very important for a defender in PvP, you really have to move around alot. Make use of Psi range, 1Acc,3Dam,2Range on snipe will give you ~254yards for instance, one range on any attack ~125yards compared to most people's 80 yards.

My defender is only level 20 but ive fought all 5 hero ATs quite a bit in the arena,(many level 50s), and not only never lost but also never been killed....so far .

Just shows that defenders can PvP,(only get ready for very long drawn out fights, took me 5mins to kill an MM in BB and stone tanks with rooted can almost outheal your damage, would forget taking on a regen).

Hope you enjoy your PvP defender as much as I am enjoying mine .

Gorgog

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I could beat most people using a trick arrow / archery defender

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Nah just beat the French

Erm not wanting to come over as rude or a smart a$£%, (which means I probably will), but havnt you kinda proven Jiaozy's point to some extent Xanthus?

If fighting Nightbringer "Nightbringer wipes the floor with me every time" with his MA/Regen and "Captain Freon will quite happily walk all over me" with his Ice/Nrg blaster then does it not suggest that either you are not as good as them or that it is indeed down to build?

Could Nightbringer and Captain Freon beat you using Grav/Emp if you were using MA/Regen or Ine/Nrg?

I know to some point this argument is flawed as its paper/scissors/rock but I still would agree with the statement 20% skill 80% build.

In giving 10 ATs each with 2 sets City of Heroes can have so many different builds however so it does take skill to spot the better AT builds and use them well, (left CoH in I4 due to lack of PvP but when the game came out I remember controllers were thought of as completely useless and blappers were laughed at, infact if you even mentioned you liked fighting in the arena it was almost enough to get you kicked out a team ).

Anyway skill has loads to do with it but personally I think bad skill will effect most fights more then good and at high level PvP build wins out.

Gorgog

P.S. Ive teamed with people in AoW and while I am not going to comment on their PvP Ive found every last one of then extreemly friendly and helpful, two traits I put far above being PvP gods.

Bored so here goes:

Troller: MC/FF/Prime Forces - Force Bolt to dettogle + control as mentioned by others, can turtle.

Defender - Emp/Elec/Power Mastery - Healing, use of Tesla Cage to assist troller.

Scrapper - BS/Regen/Darkness Mastery - DM for hold or Body Mastery if Acc is an issue, assist blaster for kills.

Blapper - Ice/Nrg/Force Mastery - To be an Ice/Nrg blaster..., assist scrapper for kills, can turtle.

Tank - Ice/EM/Arctic Mastery - Taunt. AM for hold and Snow Storm or again Energy Mastery if ACC is a problem.

All with WW and maxed suppressed movement .

Most not THAT fantastic solo but good synergy. Loads of toggle droppers, control, defence, heals, single target damage.

Only ever watched pentads though so ready to be shot down in flames or completely ignored .

Edit: Defender : Psychic Mastery = 2nd hold + Telekinesis wouldnt be gimp either.

2nd Edit: Removed tank as detoggle bloke due to Xanthus is about to say. Also wondering how perception works. Clicky says perception cap is 1153 for level 50, if its debuffed by say 500 then someone who is 500 over that cap will then have 1153 or will he have 653? (sorry for the description). Either way fire/ta troller with stealth would be funny to play, you may not have a stalker's stealth cap but you can debuff perc by 900 (prob defender figs). Had a fight the other day vs a fire troller and target loss can actually be quite useful.

Stalker troller ftw!!!!

Gorgog

Done a bit of pvp on quite alot of games and tends to come down to synergy for both teams and build as well as the skill to carry it off IMHO.

Its all just numbers anyway, know the numbers you know the game .

Gorgog

Guess your right there, though have seen some mobs use their powers far better then some players .

Tend to arena every 2 levels though to test new powers and there just isnt always a wide selection on people to fight against especially with this very annoying level bracketing. Maybe an idea would just be to allow players to set the exact level for arenas.

Gorgog

Probably go njts meself for its box of tricks. It has +perception that can be handy and a heal, trops are also nice for helping land an AS in pvp and pve also I believe njts gets as good a power as elude, (though could well be wrong there).

Not saying SR is weak but its a bit of a one trick pony and probably not as much fun to play. On the other hand in pvp recharge rate on powers such as AS and placate effect damage output probably more then any for other AT so quickness would be handy.

Just my 2infamy.

Gorgog

Just a dream I know but with all the pvp starting up on test server wouldnt it be great if you could create "bots" controlled by the computer to fight for practice.

Could min/max them with any AT sets. If the devs felt that this would allow you to see powers you havnt gained access to yet it could be limited to sets you have leveled up, though it would be a great incentive to level up alts after seeing what some powers can do.

If the bots fought with as good timeing on heals etc. as tsoo sorcerers, for example, then they would certainly be very good practice for teams wanting to pvp.

Probably too hard to implement though.

Gorgog

WW is for movement not knockdown, I7 unrooting is most likely to be removed so unless its the knockdown you want it for WW will be useless.

Gorgog

Since you have recall friend I am guessing its a pure PvE build. PvP TP foe is better and you probably want stealth.

Gorgog

Dull Pain allows you to hide while taking damage, very very useful PvE and PvP IMHO, also healing while you run is nice. Toggle stat protection sucks though. EM is godly in PvP, dont even need AS.

Ofcourse EM will probably be nerfed I7 and regen has never not been nerfed with new issues so its pot luck.

Edit:Also regen is stuffed vs ATs using end drain.

Gorgog

Was thinking of asking on here if that was the case, certainly rumors on the US site, though why do they leave it till now to do???

Since its possible to AS through WW as the ticks are so slow cant actually see a single reason why it should be taken now considering the end drain.

Guess devs arnt happy untill all the last powers in the pool powers suck.

Speed, Hasten>WW. Fighting, Tough>Weave. Leadership, Tactics>Vengeance(for most ppl), well the list could go on.

Call me crazy but given that you already need two powers from a pool to get the last and the last is at level 20 shouldnt it be that the last powers are better, not worse then the earlier ones?

Edit: Not saying it shouldnt be changed btw as probably a little bitty unfair on melee ATs but really the pool power order is messed up.

Crazy Gorgog

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Rad/ice? surely you mean Ice/rad?
The rad blast set isn't up to much compared with ice blast, since it's largely AoE attacks


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I went for Ice secondary as I heard the recharge and damage on the primary were both poor but that the secondary was excellent for PvP.

Have I chose the wrong Primary? Only up to level 3 at the moment so can re-roll him if another primary is better?


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For PvP only 2 primaries are really any good ice and fire, since these are the only burst damage sets for corruptors. The other sets are more about sustained damage or aoe, things you dont really need in PvP.

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Does it not depend a bit on if its solo pvp or teamed? Nothing wrong with sustained damage in teamed pvp.

Would say order of best primary is Ice,Fire,Rad but Ice seems to be doubling up a bit too much.

Then again wouldnt want to be fire/ice fighting a */ice corrupter in warburg (unless its another fire/ice that is )

Edit: oh and try http://home.comcast.net/~sherksilver/index.html hero builder there will let you calculate attack chain dps and end drain along with a few other nice things.

Gorgog