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Quote:It's almost as if the humiliation of the defeat of his toughest henchpeople and rescue Statseman showed him just how dangerous Primal Earth was, and encouraged him to seek out a source of cosmic power to make his henchpeople stronger and his enemies weaker, while building a huge army of war robots to launch a full scale invasion of Primal Earth.we had already fought the Praetorians in Tina Macintyre's arc and Maria Jenkins arc. And defeated them! But now they are back...?
Tyrant's plan was actually pretty good - he just didn't count on the Menders being able to travel to the future to see the result of a loyalist victory, and then start helping the Primal Earth heroes gain Incarnate power to fight the invasion.
If Ramiel and Prometheus hadn't shown up, the loyalists would have won. -
While heliping the Resistance in the survivors' compound, and working with Vanessa DeVore to help strengthen the Resistance and its allies.
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Quote:But that would need a sharper turn to the right side by the loyalists - by making the turn at a lower level, it avoids having them heiling Tyrant at level 49, then smashing the dictatorship at 50.You are right, and that's the problem. In lvl 1-20 Praetoria, it doesn't mean a damn thing what you choose, you are still going to end up a Hero or Villain, and still end up fighting Praetoria. I am not arguing the writing of the story. In reality, it had to be written that way just from a sanity and logistical standpoint, regardless of how much I may have wanted to create a character that fought for Praetoria. What I am suggesting is that it would have been smarter to allow players to remain Praetorian up to level 50 and THEN have all the story lines funnel towards "Cole is evil and, for the good of the people and/or your own survival and gains, you must defeat him and his regime." Bam, you are right there, ready to start the Praetorian Incarnate Content, rather than leaving Praetoria behind for 30 levels (which go by a LOT slower than the first 20) and only having two TFs (one on each side) that pit you against Praetoria.
Praetoria now extends to 40, and the turn to the good side by the loyalists is softer than if they'd left it to 50. -
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Quote:The basic plot points have always been the same - GR sets up the various loyalists AVs and the different tools used by them to maintain the loyalist dictaorship, like the BAF, TPN, Keyes Island reactors and so on, and then the Trials provide the conclusion to their storylines, with the final part being fought in the exact same place that Praetorian players first arrived at in GR.You're missing the point. I'm saying that what the end of the story we got isn't necessarily the same as what was planned from the very start. Tyrant fell, yes. But don't believe that the end was always written like this or the path of the story was followed to the letter.
Quote:The devs have been on record saying fans were displeased with the praetorian story so they're wrapping it up. That right there says that plans didn't go as originally laid out. -
Quote:If it's cobbled, then it's extremely well polished, joined-up and consistent cobblingIt is completely cobbled, from the early presentation of Praetoria to the end.
Quote:Knowing the completion and telling a story that was compelling are two differen things. -
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Quote:That's not how the 1-20 story was written - it was written so that by level 20 everyone would either be fighting the dictatorship to free then people of Praeotria, or looking for ways to expand their own personal power - that's why the moral choices in Praetoria don't actually have any effect on your alignment until you hit 20, and even then, it doesn't have any effect on the oucome of the war, as everyone is fighting Tyrant.I do, however, have to disagree with this. If this were the case, there would be some way for Praetorian-started characters to remain a Loyalist or Resistance alignment past level 20, or at least exclusive arcs in Paragon City or the Rogue Isles (tied to the Agent of Praetoria badge) that allow them to complete tasks for/against Praetoria along their journey to 50.
GR was written with the knowledge that no matter what chcoies were made, every player would be lined up against the dictatorship once the war started - that's why there were parts of the story where they had to railroad players into picking the right side, like the confrontation with Tyrant at level 20, where the player text is written to make them hostile towards him, even if they've been heiling him for the previous 19 levels.
The Warden path is the correct path through GR, as it has the smoothest transition to blue side, and the smoothest continuation in first Ward.
Next is the Crusader path, which has an almost equally smooth transition to Primal Earth as an anarchist int he Rogue Isles, but runs into problems in First Ward, as Calvin Scott and his Crusaders are portrayed there as enemies, with no option to side with them.
Third is the loyalist power path, which also has major probelms in First Ward, as there's no selfish options there to increase your own power, and the transition to Primal Earth also assumes that the character is intelligent and patient enough to play a long game, and start over as an Arachnos minion to work their way up the ladder in the Rogue Isles to a higher level of power, instead of continuing to exploit their improved postion in the loyalist dictatorship.
Last is the responsibility loyalist path, which has no support in First Ward, or in the transition to Primal Earth, as their one reason for going, the prevention of the invasion, is undermineed at once by the Admiral Sutter TF, which starts at exactly the same level as they arrive in Primal Earth.
All of this is the natural result of GR being written from the start with the end result of the war already known to the writers - which meant that all the loyalist choices were ultimately always going to just be window dressing, as the real focus was on the Resistance, as that was the path that was designed to lead to the dimensional war at the start of the Incarnate storyline.
They still did an awesome job with the depth and variety of the GR story arcs, but the meta-story always meant that the loyalists were born losers.
Quote:Also, to have most of Praetoria's defeat confined to iTrials or TFs like Apex and Tin Mage II (that really need the Alpha slot and thus VIP access) screws over any Free/Premium players who have purchased Going Rogue and started as Praetorian. -
Quote:So it's rushed and drawn-out?Again - your opinion.
Others find the whole cobbled-together drawn out mess a completely disengaging failure that has slowly pushed them away from playing.
And it's totlaly not cobbled together - they work several Issues in advance, and GR was created along with the Praetorian war storyline - when they were working on the Precinct 5 tutorial, they knew that Tyrant and the loyalists were going to be defeated at the climax of the story. -
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Quote:Kinda hard to give all the loyalist AVs a suitable beating in just one IssueRikti storyline got intro'd in a grand, epic fashion and then wrapped up in the same issue. Same with Mot and Dark Astoria. Both amazing issues that few complain about. This should've happened with the Praetorian war.
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It hasn't failed, period
There's been regular Praetorian content since GR, constantly expanding the Praetorian storyline and building it up to its logical climax where we finally smash the last of the loyalists and their evil master. -
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Do you have any idea just how much processing power you'd need to have that kind of model in just a single player game?
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Quote:You mean I18, with all the build up to the loyalist invasion, was spoiled by I19, where the loyalists invaded?The "let's ruin everything that was cool about i18" arc started more like 1½ years ago with i19, and its climax doesn't really inspire a lot of excitement.
Quote:Praetoria sort of ended up as a washout -
The Battalion is in I25 - but it's quite possible that there could be some build up in I24
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Quote:As the climax of the storyline that started almost 2 years ago in GR, the Tyrant Trial is worth the sub on its ownSo is there anything I should know about this issue that isn't in the features list on the wiki? Something, anything, worth re-upping for? >_>
No, I mean it. I'd really like a good excuse. But Second Ward and the Cole trial ain't much.
And if you count the beta period, then we've actually been waiting over 2 years for the fall of the loyalist dictatorship - so I23 is a big story moment in the history of the game. -
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Quote:Not from only 2 examples, no...I really hope the dev's get a handle on T9 VIP releases soon.
We got Celestial in i21, September 13, 2011;
We got Fire & Ice in i21.5, January 10, 2012 - Almost 4 months later;
We're getting Mecha June 5, 2012, almost 5 months later.
See a pattern? -
Quote:In other words, he was engaging the majority of the community, and not the RPer minority.Off the top of my head, he complained about his steam powered computer crashing, gave a shout out to a specific player, commented on his war horses not showing up, responded to a couple questions, made a pretty corny and unintimidating threat or two, among a few other unimportant things that should've been put only in zone-wide chat.
And shout outs are fun - during the loyalist invaison last year, I got threatened by Tyrant because I made a picture of Null the Gull sitting on his throne -
The personal story missions are also an awesome new mechanic for storytelling.
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