Gargoyle_KDR

Welcome into the light of the forums, both of you. The shadow land of the "real world" is just a crutch for those who can't handle science fiction.

-B.

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For those waiting in line please turn off powers, and do your part to not slow things down.Ex

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Ex, power deactivation was FORCED upon people waiting for entry in Atlas Park. All powers were deactivated within around 100 feet of the Usher. Being polite by not using powers was a standard for mature users, but the forced deactivation of powers made sure everyone was kept in control. Personally, I support the decision to do the power deactivation. However, that wasn't enough crowd control to make the event flow smoothly for everyone.

- B.

I'm a tolerant guy. I understand the nature of waiting in line to get into an event. However, I have to say that I'm not entirely satisfied by the manner the wedding event has been handled.

1) If you wanted us to line up in lines to enter the event then put in controls to direct the people. Rope lines, funnels, any sort of crowd control would be nice. I laughed like most when Castle KO'd people close to the Usher in Atlas. I even got him to laugh when I said it was like "Look! It's the WHO!" [that's an old person joke for all the folks under 30 based on a crowd stampede at a WHO concern years ago ]. You need better crowd control for events like the wedding.

2) The equity of the access to the event was lacking. Making it "whoever can click on the Usher through the effect of the Force Bubble" lacked balance. Why did this happnen? Not thinking through the methodology of accessing the event is why. Plan for orderly entry next time. The shotgun approach is a poor substitute for proper planning.

- B.

Supergroup Name: The Defenders of Paragon

Website: www.tdop.org

Leaders and/or Recruiting Officers:
Bayne
Exodus
Korpershutz
Nightclub
Red Switchblade

Preferred Method of contact:
Registering at our website and posting on our forums. Although meeting up with us in game is just as desirable.

Description:
"These guys have been around since the beginning and i'm sure they'll be here 'till the end!"
-Paragon city mayor on the subject of the Defenders.

Paragon City is full of crime and villians. The city cries out desperatly for a hope, an answer, a defense from the evils that fill it. The Defenders of Paragon serve that hope and protect Paragon City. We shall use the powers gifted to us to there fullest extent to defeat evil wherever it exists. We stand for truth, justice, freedom, and righteousness. We are the ray of hope in Paragon City's darkest hour. We are The Defenders.

It is accurate to say the Defenders are like the JSA of Paragon City. We are comprised of the best of the old and boldest of the new. We pay homage to the excellance that is the comic book industry through the characters we play. It is because of this that we have such a wide variety of members and such a brilliant mix of superheroes on the team. We have members at all level ranges, and look to promote a roleplay-friendly family spirit in our supergroup.

We're not a "clan" or "guild." We are Superheroes.

The Defenders of Paragon are comprised of several in-game supergroups. All of The Defenders of Paragon groups function as a branches of a single supergroup for most game purposes.

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I never really thought Cage magnitude was a problem; only magicj mentioned it.

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Actually, it was BurningChick who said it doesn't reliably cage AVs, I believe. I simply pointed out that the Controller version does cage AVs (there's an example of me doing that in the video in my sig) and if the Defender version didn't, I have no objection to seeing it get buffed. In other words, I wouldn't consider that to be "stepping on the toes" of Controllers.

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Since this thread has started I've tried to capture "the big four" in the STF. Think of how useful it would be to the team for a FF'er to capture one of them when the pull goes bad. I was unable to affect any one of them despite multiple attempts. The power was slotted with ACC and Recharge IO's at that time.

- B.

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Controllers and Masterminds have better Defense values against Smashing/Lethal attacks than Defenders when epic powers are accounted for. Defenders can reduce some of the damage they take, but Controllers and Masterminds work around this by having substantially better chances of not being hit. Only when attack types are outside Smash/Lethal does the Defender show a slight Defense advantage over a Controller or Mastermind.


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That and the fact that Controllers can HOLD enemies, the ultimate defense... Masterminds have alot of bodyguards to soak up damage.... Defender's , especially FFers, don't really have those abilities to "complement" their Defense powers.

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I'd add to that the fact that Controllers produce better Mez protection than Defenders do. They end up with a better "common" personal defense potential /and/ better Mez protection than a FF Defender can do. What's up with that?

- B.

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Quoting magicj for truth and as an example. Emphasis mine:

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I understand your concern with this (FF defenders being squishy). It makes perfect sense. I know you don't want hear this, but compare it to the situation Controllers and Masterminds have:

*/FF Master Mind + Scorpion Shield
+DEF(S/L) 32.8%
+DEF(Energy) 25.7%
+DEF(Fire, Cold, Neg Energy, Ranged, Melee, AoE, Psionic) 11.7%
+RES(Toxic) 17.5%

*/FF Controller + Frozen Armor
+DEF(S/L) 32.8%
+DEF(Energy, Neg Energy, Fire, Cold, Melee, Ranged, AoE, Psionic) 11.7%
+RES(Fire) 10%
+Res(Cold) 30%

Ice Tank With All Shields
+DEF (S/L, Energy, Neg Energy) 27.5%
+DEF (Fire, Cold) 1%
+RES (Fire) 32%
+RES (Cold) 90%

FF Masterminds and Controllers are _already_ competative with Ice Tankers in terms of Defense. For the most common damage type, S/L, they are actually _better_ than Ice Tankers. They are also better at Fire, Cold, Psionic, Ranged, Melee, and AoE Defense.

You can't buff FF [self] Defense without risking throwing the relationship between Tankers, Controllers, and Masterminds totally out of wack. It's highly unlikely that you'll be able to buff Defender FF Defenses without an outcry from the other FF ATs.

The reason an FF Defender can't match these number is not because of FF. Defenders get more Defense from FF than any other AT. The reason is because Defenders Epics have no shield that provides +DEF. The problem isn't FF, the problem is the design of Defenders.


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This is an interesting observation, and indeed something of a problem, but less than you might think.

At first look this is a glaring example of how FF works better as a secondary than as a primary, which has been a general Defender complaint since day one. What could be done is to add an ice shield to the defender epics. I suppose that might happen at about the same time villain epics get revised. Which might happen, but not soon.

But lets compare to Defender figures using available group powers; Weave and/or Maneuvers.

Defender: Dispersion Bubble + Weave 24% to all
Defender: Dispersion Bubble + Maneuvers 16% to all
Defender: Dispersion Bubble + Weave + Maneuvers 29% to all


These figures are not bad at all. Add in a few percent form Hover and Combat Jumping, and you are very well protected indeed. In the case of Maneuvers it also helps your team. Sure, Controllers and Masterminds can also take these powers, but they get lesser values out of them. I'd go so far as to say that Maneuvers is a 10th power in the Defender version of FF.

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I don't think you are using the same powers for each example (not including the Epic one).

Here's an Apples-to-Apples comparison. Each power is calculated using 4 Level 50 IO's, and ED is accounted for in the math. The base percentage numbers are taken from City of Data.

Defender
Dispersion Bubble = 16.330% DEF & -8.65 Mag to Hold/Stun/Immob
Hover = 3.062% DEF
Manuevers = 5.716% DEF
Stealth = 4.083% DEF
(Epic) Mind Over Body = 44.908% RES (S/L) [Less for Psionic]

DEFENDER TOTAL = 29.190% DEF & 44.908% RES (S/L) & -8.65 Mag vs Hold/Stun/Immob

Controller
Dispersion Bubble = 12.248% DEF & -10.38 Mag to Hold/Stun/Immob
Hover = 3.062% DEF
Manuevers = 4.287% DEF
Stealth = 3.674% DEF
(Epic) Frozen Armor = 22.046% DEF (S/L/Cold)

CONTROLLER TOTAL = 45.316% DEF (S/L/Cold) or 23.090% DEF (all others) & 0.0% RES (S/L) & -10.38 Mag vs Hold/Stun/Immob

Mastermind
Dispersion Bubble = 12.248% DEF & -5.19 Mag to Hold/Stun/Immob
Hover = 3.062% DEF
Manuevers = 4.287% DEF
Stealth = 3.674% DEF
(Epic) Scorpion Shield = 22.046% DEF (S/L/Energy)

MASTERMIND TOTAL = 45.136% DEF (S/L/Energy) or 23.090% DEF (all others) & 0.0% RES (S/L) & -5.19 Mag vs Hold/Stun/Immob


Summary
Controllers and Masterminds have better Defense values against Smashing/Lethal attacks than Defenders when epic powers are accounted for. Defenders can reduce some of the damage they take, but Controllers and Masterminds work around this by having substantially better chances of not being hit. Only when attack types are outside Smash/Lethal does the Defender show a slight Defense advantage over a Controller or Mastermind.

- B.

Edit: Clarified Controller/Mastermind Defense against Smash/Lethal/other in the Totals and Epic Power line items.

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The other thing I wanted to add was to build off Arcanville's reverese PFF idea for Detention Field...Turning Detention Field into a reverse PFF and giving it the ability to work on friends and foes...It could use different timers for the duration depending on whether its a friend or foe you used the power on.

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This idea has merit. It would have to be a toggle power to make this work effectively.

If the power was a PFF type it would give the 5% chance to hit the captive target while not allowing the target to affect others.

On the plus side: It would give an indirect heal effect by allowing a teammate time to naturally heal during combat with relative safety. A foe would not be able to attack which maintains the flavor of the current power. Targets are not entirely unable to be harmed, so there is some balance built in.

On the negative side: It would still have the ToHit buff defense blow-thru issue though. Also, teammates may have issues with suddenly being unable to affect others. In PvP captured targets would have a chance to be damaged while being removed from a fight (which makes it a frustrating power to fight against).

-B.

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So far (from history) we can all agree (with this generally) that:
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Personal Force Field
Deflection Shield
Insulation Shield
Force Bolt
Dispersion Bubble
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are good the way they are.
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What we (The Bubbler Communtiy) agree that we have problems with:
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Detention Field
Repulsion Field
Repulsion Bomb
Force Bubble
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Can we please get into how we can improve these powers?

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This is also my perception of our collective responses.

In order to effectively improve the powers we have to understand what is it about the way the powers work now that cause us problems. We've been going back and forth about these problems. Let's try to summerize them.

Detention Field
1) The affected character can still be targeted and attacked even though the captured target cannot be harmed.
2) The immobilization of the captured target can be resisted (the target can move while captured).
3) The captured target can target others in order to queue up attacks that will activate the moment the capture timer expires. The queued attacks can not be matched in timing by other characters.

Repulsion Field
1) The PBAoE field effect allows targets to melee attack prior to being knocked back.
2) The endurance cost per target knocked back is excessively high. Large groups of targets can quickly deplete the endurance of the casting character.
3) Uncontrolled knockback is a negative effect for melee characters teamed with the caster.

Repulsion Bomb
1) The recharge time on the power is too slow.
2) The chance of stun is too low.
3) The magnatude of the stun is too low.
4) The casting time is too high/long.
5) Uncontrolled knockback is a negative effect for characters teamed with the caster.

Force Bubble
1) The radius of the power can prevent teammates from benefiting from the defense buff provided by Dispersion Bubble when targets are repelled out of the radius of Dispersion Bubble.
2) The chance to knockback a repel resistant target is too low.
3) The repel effect combined with the large radius creates substantial aggro on the caster without means of mitigating the aggro.
4) Many secondary powers do not have the range to attack a target affected by the repel effect.


Other Issues Not Specific to a Single Power
1) The FF set lacks buff/debuff effects found desirable by players.
2) The problem powers are highly situational, and therefore not found desirable by players.


I'm sure you can add to the list. Give it a go.

- B.

The Real Numbers will be soooooo great to finally have available to us.

I wonder if the Real Numbers will interface with the City Vault someway for out-of-game lookups.

- B.

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When I look at FF and Defenders' secondaries, blasting doesn't work with Knockback and herding doesn't work with Defenders' nukes.

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In my experience, Defender nukes don't work at all. Nuking, for a defender, is mainly a way to get unwanted aggro that you cannot contain.

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Long ago I found Energy Blast's nuke to be counter productive to my maintaining defense for myself and the team. FF requires Endurance. Nukes remove practically all Endurance and that shuts down toggles. The nature of the two powers makes them mutually exclusive. I respec'd out of the nuke because of that.

- B.

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-ACC, ToHitDebuff, -Spd, etc. all work for the power.

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And Force Bubbble, in practice, already does -Speed. It also does -Damage and -Recharge. It does these things through changes in the AI the baddies use while fighting the Repel of the bubble.

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I disagree with saying Repel equates to -Spd. In both PvE and PvP things that are not affected by Repel are still affected by -Spd. If the power had both elements in it the power would still affect the Repel resistant ones by slowing them down.

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-Swap the values of Dispersion & Deflection/Insulation; this would keep the value of defence offered by a FF the same for the team, but increase the survivability of the FF'er.

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I'm on the fence over this type of change. I like what it would mean for the FF Defender character's survivability, but I'm concerned about what it would mean for team members. This is especially true in PvP where it is very difficult to keep players within the radius of Dispersion Bubble.

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-Change Force Bubble into a -res, -speed PBAoE. This would give us a way of increasing our damage solo and on a team and I in my opinion still fit within the theme of FF.

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As much as I'd love to have a -Res power in FF, I have a hard time rationalizing it. -ACC, ToHitDebuff, -Spd, etc. all work for the power.

- B.

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As an addendum: FF is the only defender primary whose entire arsenal of mob-affecting powers can be neutered by AVs and monsters. That is an awesomely stupid design decision.

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I agree.

Where's the "unresistable power" of the FF set? Where's the "purple triangle for Knockback" effect? Why is the FF set rendered so impotent against AV's and Monsters? The design decisions that allowed this to happen need to be challenged.

- B.

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The "core function" of PFF is that you SACRIFICE affecting others for "ultimate defense". It's both, not one or the other. If you take one away, you have to take away the other. Allowing someone to still attack and still affect the outside world, even with adding a -ToHit -Acc or -Damage along AND still giving the person 15% Defense..... how is THAT as much a sacrifice as losing the ability to do ANYTHING at all?

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PFF went through several changes in the original closed Beta. Here's a few versions I personally experienced during Beta:

1) PFF protected the character from all attacks. The 5% chance to be hit was not part of the power. There was 100% protection from everything. That was changed because it was too easily abused by low level characters. A level 1 character could stand in front of level 40 mobs without risk. It became easy for the player to go places they normally wouldn't have a chance of surviving. It was also deemed "not very fun" since the PFF would allow the character to survive a team-wipe at will. No damage reduction was included in the power since it was not needed. The character could not affect others with powers.

2) PFF allowed the character to attack others, but there was a huge ToHit debuff included in the power. This version was hard to use. The restriction on attacking was so strict that the percentage of attacks that hit was very low. Most characters found it more effective to not waste the endurance attacking since you rarely hit your target. In other words, this version sacrificed accuracy for personal protection. Honestly, I forget if I could affect teammates or not with this version. I could affect NPC mobs if my attack hit. No damage reduction was included in the power.

3) The version that went into the live game. 5% chance of being affected along with damage reduction in case you are hit.

I'd say the "core function" of PFF has always been to protect the character inside the PFF. Sacrificing others for that protection was in the mix, but I see it as more of a secondary nature of the power than it's core purpose.

- B.

Personal Force Field, Deflection Shield, Insulation Shield, and Dispersion Bubble - No changes.

Force Bolt - Either add a low percentage chance to disorient targets, or increase the Toggle dropping ability while also making it work against all targets (up to and including AV's). In order to compensate for the disorient reduce the recycle period and/or increase the endurance of the power.

Detention Field - Provide a visual warning to the casting player that indicates when the power is going to deactivate. Something like making the power icon flash or pulse would work. In addition, make the subject of the DF unable to be targeted by anyone until 5 seconds before the power deactivates. That could work like a modified placate.

Repulsion Field - Increase the pulse rate of the knockback pulses. Add a knockback magnitude modifier that is based on the radius distance away from the PBAoE; the closer to the center of the PBAoE the higher the magnitude of the KB.

Repulsion Bomb - Shorten the animation time and increase the chance to disorient. The power under-performs in its current state so no trade-off should be necessary.

Force Bubble - Add a PBAoE Defense bonus to the power similar in style to Dispersion Bubble, but provide the caster with a slightly higher bonus than others recieve. This is intended to compensate for the increased Aggro the power creates for the caster. As an alternative to that add a PBAoE Damage Resistance bonus to the power.

- B.

My top 8:

Selectable maps
Hero-Villain Balance
Cross-server PvP
No Meaningful Rewards
OAS Timer Issues
PvP and PvE Builds
Flight Not Viable
Bounty System in All Zones

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3.


My personal preference is for 3. While sonics might be overpowered (unres 30% -res, sheilds that grant 30% +res, and with IOs, the ability to, second for second, keep someone else out of the match), so are emps and fire/ems and everything else we use in the arena. Being reasonably overpowered is okay, being able to make it so that someone else who showed up to play practically doesn't get to is less so. Sonic cage occasionally gets cited as a reason when top players leave, and that's because being able to permaphase someone else has a pretty strong amount of -fun. Just as there's suppression on other mezes, there should be suppression on cage powers. Add a ten second suppression to cage, so a single player can only be caged every other time it's up.

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What about FF's cage power? Oh, right. Defense powers are not as effective in PVP as Resistance powers. This screams BROKEN BALANCE to me.

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Since complaints about cage are pretty popular...the current popularity of 2 cage teams...the ladder match for #1 ended with a 2 sonic team vs a 2 sonic team, and Freaks vs. OS saw 4 sonics brought into a match on one side.

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And not a single FF Defender in the mix. Why? Because it is an AT power mix that underperforms even when the cage power is included into the mix. Why does it underperform? Keep reading.
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2. Cage is overpowered since it has no workable counters. Add cage resistance (i.e., a decrease in duration caged) to one or more ally buffs.

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I disagree with this. Bringing cagers already has its downsides....

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I also disagree with the statement. Cage powers have a "workable counter" in the attack roll needed to land the power on a character. The problem in that is the laughable protection Defense brings into play in PVP. People ask for a RESISTANCE function because they know DEFENSE functions don't work like they should in PVP. That means there is a fundamental problem in the Defense vs ToHit system, not in the cage power itself.

Why is it that bringing "cagers" has its downsides? I think it is because the powersets that have cage powers in them are poorly designed for functionality in PVP. Their powers depend on players behaving in a PVE tactial approach (stay close to the "cager", group up, and stay in range of the defense/resistance radius of the cager) rather than the way PVP works in practice (never stop moving, don't group up, and don't let others keep you in range).
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4. Entirely rework defense and tohit. The fact that blasters are regularly caged through pb'd PFF with two forts is the problem, not permacaging.

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This solution addresses the root cause of the issue. In today's code the Defense vs ToHit system is broken for truly effective PVP combat. It needs to be reviewed and reworked instead of applying bandaids to individual powers. Fixing the root cause will allow the various AT's and Powersets to be balanced the way they should have been from the start.

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This earthquake just rounded off my exposure to natural disasters. All I need now is a volcanic eruption to complete the set.

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You'll have to move either to Hawaii or up to the Pacific Northwest for that. Here in Washington State we've got 5 volcanic mountains in the state. Mt. St. Helens is only one of the 5 even if it is the most active.

Yes, I do remember where I was and what I was doing the day Mt. St. Helens blew. I was a couple of hundred miles away and I still heard it from inside the building I was in at the time.

- B.

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Actually Weapon Customization made the feature list AFTER I made the original "something you've been asking for" post, where I was referring to Flashback. (We had players in the CoH beta test asking for a way to go back and do the story arcs of the Contacts they skipped).

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Indeed, we did ask for that. Thank you for making it happen.

- B.

The times, they are changing.

Perhaps a trip in time is in order. Yes, I think we should activate Project Tic Toc. I'll go tell Dr. Tony Newman and Dr. Doug Phillips to fire up their swirly portal.


Bayne

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Positron confirmed 2 new power sets are in Issue 11. They are Willpower and Dual Swords. The AT's that get the sets was not mentioned.

- B.

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Correction: the set name Positron used is Dual Blades. I recall some reference to a sword, and I blended that into the name when I posted earlier. Dual Blades can mean more than swords.

- B.

Positron confirmed 2 new power sets are in Issue 11. They are Willpower and Dual Swords. The AT's that get the sets was not mentioned.

- B.

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Keep us posted?

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Lighthouse is very nice, grew up in the greater PNW, and is rather tall.

CuppaJo has been on the road a lot over the course of this convention season. She's hanging in there, and is currently in the right town for getting that extra Starbucks buzz.

The Hero Clix of Mako is the convention give-away. I haven't checked his stats yet, but I doubt he's as hard to hit in Hero Clix as he is when he goes all crazy on the STF.

The booth has a good amount of space to it, and a couple of islands of PCs for playing any of the NCsoft games (CoH, Tabula Rasa, Guild Wars, Dungeon Warrior, etc.).

I had a chance to play a bit of Tabula Rasa. It looks very sharp. The game play was ok. I did find and report a graphics bug (disappearing trees and other stuff) during an early level mission. CuppaJo helped show me the bug report system after I showed her what I found. The game is still in Beta so graphical bugs like that are par for the course. Generally it looked fairly polished.

Tomorrow is the long day for them. Positron will also be there so questions about game development can get put forth (just don't expect any answers that reveal plans of theirs).

- B.