GMan3

Go ahead and think however you like GG. I made my argument and you made yours. You think you're right and I know I am. We aren't going to agree on this one either.

You did make one pretty bad mistake in that last part of your statement though. Luke Skywalker and the whole Star Wars setting is probably the closest you can come to comparing to this game. That is, when you take in the laser blasters, strange creatures, human-like robots, soldiers, light sabers and the Force. And yes, Luke did kill his enemies as did Obi Wan. Both major HEROES in the movie/genre

Not worth arguing anymore other than to say I have very carefully NOT attacked anyone in this argument. I simply have a different opinion and choose not to delude myself to the realities of conflict. When people fight, hurt happens. When People use simple weapons against each other, maiming or death happens. When people pull out guns, flame-throwers, nukes, poisoned darts, etc. . . DEATH happens. This game is loosely based on that very idea. Otherwise we would all run around giving out ribbons and asking the bad guys real politely to stop being so mean. Or if we played a bad guy, we would very calmly and reasonably walk up to the bank teller and explain to them how it was so very important to give us all the money in the vault.

If the creators of this game had been more honest AND not worried about the "Mature" rating they would have gotten, they would have admitted that heroes do kill, at least occasionally and often much more. Instead they tried to explain away the bad stuff in a way that allowed them to get a "teen" rating and vastly increase their player base.

Actually, I had to wake up both of my children twice a night for the first two months to feed them or they would sleep through the night. I was told by my doctor that it was necessary for that long to keep them getting proper nutrition. I don't know if it is true or not according to more recent information out there, but it made for some bad nights for me anyways since I could seldom get back to sleep quickly.

Been there twice now. The absolute BEST and WORST of times all wrapped up into one really confusing package. Now that my kids are 14 and 16 years old though, I can warn you it gets a little better and a whole lot worse. Yet somehow it is more than worth it and I would not change it for anything.

My congratulations to you for the addition to your family and my sympathies as well.

Typical. If you can not win an argument then ignore the totality of what is said and only pick out the smallest parts to refute. Let me reiterate just one part then:

"This game is loosely based on the realities of conflict."

And then I went on to say other things you ignored. If you want to delude yourself into thinking otherwise, go ahead, no skin off my back.

I don't mind killing a GM for a badge and a merit or two. I'll even join others to help them get the badge, but without the badge, it just isn't worth it to me. I will admit I wouldn't mind doing it once just to see it done though, but I wouldn't ever do it again.

I am not trying to convince you of anything. This game is loosely based on the realities of conflict. When your life is on the line, you will most often do anything to preserve it OR die.

Most police officers will tell you that in a bad situation they hope to not hurt anyone or at least cause the least amount of hurt possible, but they will not put their own lives on the line to guarantee it. From experience I can tell you the military is even more practical. If you think your life is in danger, shoot. PERIOD!

The less morally correct, such as gang-bangers, will even take it a step farther. Many things are worth a death sentence. You're in the wrong neighborhood? Dead. You're wearing the wrong colors? Dead. You showed someone some perceived disrespect? Dead. This is the loose reality this game is based on.

If YOU choose to feel all warm and fuzzy because you're doing the right thing by arresting the bad guys or only beating up the good guys when you play a villain, then good for you. You might even sleep better at night for it. Me . . . I try to ground myself in reality a bit more and I sleep like a babe.

OMG, since when do you "resurrect" a live person? If you read any of the legends about the Phoenix, you will find that when it dies, it bursts into flames and a new phoenix "rises from the ashes". Very clear references to death and resurrection there, even if you want to ignore it.

AND

Maybe you would do that, but I do not believe many people would. I surely would not leave someone that powerful and dangerous alive if he could be killed while trying to "apprehend" him. As a villain I would not leave Statesman nor most any other enemies alive either, that just makes no logical sense from a villains perspective.

Again, since you are ignoring it, the whole "arrest" scenario IS TO MAINTAIN A "TEEN" RATING FOR THE PURPOSES OF MARKETING AND SALES. If the makers of this game said we were killing the enemies it would push the game into the "Mature" category and they would not be able to sell this game to a large portion of the market. Also arresting your foes does not reflect the larger realities either the real world or the comic/book/movie scenarios about heroes.

It really is time to lift your head out of the sand GG, you will not win this argument with me either.

Ignoring? No. I already explained that twice now. I believe it's for the "Teen" rating (that makes three times). And if you honestly believe that dead isn't dead, then why do we have powers called "Resurrect" or "Rise of the Phoenix"?

Let's put this in a perspective you might be able to better understand GG. If you are surrounded and attacked by three thugs with knives in a dark alley, are you going to try to be careful and arrest them or do whatever is possible to make sure you live and they can not hurt you? I know my answer, at least the first two and probably all three will be dealt killing blows if it is possible, not submission holds. There is no pulling punches in a situation like this, I am in it to survive and win. Don't bother trying to tell me "Game Lore" says otherwise, because that is just naive.

Perception. I have no delusions that I am arresting people while you delude yourself into think you are. Just like I don't delude myself into thinking the name of a badge is "Atrocious" while you do. Perception.

By the way, heroes go around killing people in the comics/movies/games all the time, that is not perception, but fact.

As I said before I personally believe the wording in the missions was to keep a "Teen" rating and therefore make this game more marketable to a wider audience. While I *could* be wrong, I doubt it.

I can't agree with you here. If my toon gets "killed" by losing all it's hit point, then I get emergency teleported to my base or hospital for treatment and resurrection. Also if someone has the right power I get "resurrected" or use an inspiration for the same effect.

If an enemy is "defeated" by loosing all it's hit point as well, it is KILLED. I have yet to see my toon put a pair of hand-cuffs on an enemy that has been "defeated". Nor have I seen some sort of teleporter beacon attached to a "defeated" enemy and them then whisked away to some jail cell.

I know that Paragon Studios only talks about "defeating" and "arresting" enemies, which I assume is to maintain their "TEEN" rating, but I don't delude myself into believing that is what is really happening. I know that we are dealing with a perception problem, but I personally would be willing to bet very few people believe they are not killing the enemies.

Oh I get it very well. She has for some reason found personal reasons to be indignant with an event that happen about 500 years ago that killed possibly a few thousand individuals, but does not seem to mind an event from about 60 years ago that killed several million. The name of the badge and the style of the enemies in the game both serve as reminders of the past and nothing more. The analogy is perfect.

It is you, Ms. Mesmer and GG, that are not seeing the point. ALMOST NO ONE ELSE CARES about the stupid badge title. You have tried to make a mountain out of a mole hill and instead ended up with an ant hill.

For the third time I will say it. Drop it and walk away, you are not convincing us with your argument by saying the same things over and over that didn't work in the first place. Walk away, it just isn't worth it.

Actually, the analogy fits very well according to your argument. The "Witches" in this game are also evil just like the "Nazi's" in The 5th Column and The Council. All three groups attack both heroes and villains and everything in between and they give badges for killing them with names that seem very appropriate to the actions you take to earn them. If she was really so bent out of shape about this then simply having a group in this game, let alone two, based on Nazi's would bother her too. I mean, according to her argument, there is no place for things like this in a Heroic MMO.

The fact is this is a game and she let herself get her knickers in a twist for very little reason. Heck, the badge name isn't even the full name she gave for the book. Only a similar reference, that when looked up in a dictionary, has a totally different meaning. Though I do believe that reference was intentional.

At this point it really is time for her to get over it or find a game that does not have ANY form of historical references that may upset her. That is really the only two options I can see for her at this point.

GG, Mr. DJ has an interesting point here, there are currently two enemy group grounded in Nazi Lore, The 5th Column and The Council which evolved from it. Being grounded in Nazi Lore I can only assume you have a problem with both of these enemy groups since the Nazi's killed MILLIONS of Jews, not to mention blacks and gays? You even get badges for killing members of these groups, so you must have a problem with those badges as well, right? Oh wait, you have already said those badges are OK with you.

It's time to hang up the Indignation Parade you have going on here. It really is only making you look foolish for being over sensitive. I have no problem with you having an issue with it mind, it's just time to walk away from this one as gracefully as you still *might* be able too.

No GG, we have not missed the point. While I am not mocking you for having an opinion, I still do NOT agree with your opinion. I said it before and I will say it again:

"You have blown this all out of proportion because it bothers YOU."

I am pretty sure it is not client side since I have talked about it to other people on several teams and we all see the same things at the same times.

I can almost see your point here Eiko-chan, and I am sure that there is some new players out there that agree with you. The problem I have with your argument though is that I have never run across a new player that had any problems with the Vet Rewards, except for the costume pieces. Every new player I have talked to about the Vet Reward System thought it was a very cool way to thank people for staying loyal to the game.

The only complaint I ever got from them was that the costume pieces should not be a part of the Vet System and I personally agree with that. A big part of what makes this game special is that you get to decide what your character looks like instead of your armor doing that for you. One of the companies big selling points for this game when I joined was that very fact. I never liked how certain costume pieces were inaccessible for that reason. The way I look at it, if you want people to be able to make the look of the toon they want, then don't put restrictions on it.

Mind you I have no problem with Capes at 20 and Auras at 30 or even unlock-able costume parts, because every player can get them on a toon with very little effort. The Vet System for costume pieces though requires you to spend a lot of money AND stick around for the costume pieces and I just never felt that was right. Granted, anyone who really likes the game probably will be doing both of those anyways, but it still doesn't feel right to me.

I usually skip the first power in my primary power set (if it is an attack power) and go straight for the second one. I don't see how that would be a problem personally.

I don't need to explain anything. You have blown this all out of proportion because it bothers YOU. You did a very good job showing just how appropriate the names are though, thank you.

Again though GG, you may as well drop this, you won't change my opinion on the matter. It bothers you, it doesn't bother me. You want the name changed, I don't think it is necessary. If anything it may be more important to keep the name to remind people of that atrocity as a way of trying to keep them a little more humble in the future.

You might as well drop it GG. The problem is, while I can almost see your point, I don't agree with it. I think you have found something that tweaks your nerves for some reason and it doesn't bother me a bit.

I feel this badge title is entirely appropriate to the act being done, just as the other badge titles in this event are. Your apparent "outrage" will not change that. The only thing it will do will be to make you more upset and me more indifferent.

Appropriate. Kill some "real" digital witches in a make believe game, get a badge. The witches in this game are no more "real" than the witches in the Middle Ages. Only your feeling on the subject is different.