Fury Flechette

From what I've seen so far, I think both builds would be roughly the same. Ice has better ranged attacks, but with the new PvP rules, the snipe in electric blast equalizes things. It's a bit hinky, but I can see leading off with zapp and following up with melee blaps and lightning bolt. It's sad that bitter ice blast does less than ice blast, effectively neutering ice's tier 3.

I think your electric/electric for zone PvP and the occasional casual arena duel would be fine.

About to pick up level 44, and I noticed that the GW epic has been changed since I last played stalkers (issue 8 ).

What's Shadow Meld? It seems like a short elude sans endurance crash, but it lasts only for 15 seconds? I suppose this is something you can skip if you're soft capping. For a resistance based stalker, a nifty choice perhaps, but not for the claws/sr I'm refitting.

Calibrated Accuracy is just fine. Since you're a ranged / hover blaster, you want stuff that adds to ranged defense. Those are:

* Thunderstrikes (6 slotted in Slug, Burst)
* Red Fortune (6 slotted in either Cloak, Manuevers if you have it, Stealth, Hover)
* Gaussian ToHit (6 slotted in Targeting Drone)
* 2 Universal Travels (Blezzing of the Zephyr in Fly, maybe Hover)
* and maybe a Def/Res Steadfast unique in your epic shield.

Yes, Kinetic Combat not Kinetic Crash. Edited above.

Strange how the market has made some really oddball recipes really rare.

Gaussians Rech/End Redx - a 100+ bidding for the level 50 recipe, 0 supply, no recipes any level (though presumably some are bought via standing bids), no crafted IOs at any level.

Performance Shifter End Mod/End Redx - this recipe doesn't scream out as being high powered, but surprisingly difficult to get at the right level.

Kinetic Combat Dmg/End/Rech - you can occasionally find them but they sure don't last very long.

Sting of the Manticore - Acc/Int/Range - yeah, a snipe recipe. But I think most people vendor these as opposed of listing them.

These are blue side; however, I know there's a few equivalents red side as well.

For a SO build, it looks okay. The one thing I would do is move SJ down below level 20. Suppose you wanted to do the level 24 respec? Having your travel power at 26 would kind of stink then.

No major mistakes, though there would be differences from a play style perspective.

Even for PvE, you should consider at least franken-slotting IOs. Some of your powers really beg for it, but that again is a personal choice.

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I've played CoH for years but I am just now getting some toons into the upper 40s. I am seeing what fighting is like in the 45+ world and it seems like an AoE fest.

But I love my DM and MA scrappers!

So how do single target scrappers fare post level 40 on teams?

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They do okay, but depending on team make up, a single target scrapper could feel a bit redundant. To be fair, if you have two fire blasters on the team, any scrapper could feel redundant.

That's just a bad build.

You have some bad misconceptions. And despite what you say the build has utility and not just AoEs.

1. If you don't want any utility, why bother taking flares? You can skip it you know, though you're giving up the "utility" of firing off a blast when mezzed.

2. Why bother with blazing bolt? Snipes lower dps significantly since they take a long time to fire off. In the same space of time, you could have launched 2, maybe 3 attacks that would do far more damage.

3. Not taking stamina that late on a fire blast build that late is a mistake. You won't be able to attack with any sort of regularity except in bursts. In teams, you might get along with it as long as you're constantly buffed by RA or speed boost, but I tend not to count on having such available and build self sufficient characters that work well in a team and without buffs available. You won't be a "pure damage" character if you are constantly not able to fire off attacks.

4. Your slotting is nonsensical all over the place.

* You've underslotted fire sword circle. That's one of your best AoEs.
* Why bother slotting hover with Red Fortune if you don't covet utility?
* Why bother taking consume? I'd take it, but then again, it's a utility power. And btw, the 6 slotting Performance Shifter here is far from optimal. Most atrocious is placing the +end proc in here. It's useless in there. Strangely, you use the Eff Adaptor in stamina instead.
* Why bother slotting up health? Meanwhile you underslot blaze which is your high damage single target attack.
* Why do you 6 slot aim and build up with Gaussians which only add up to 2 SOs worth of recharge? You'd be better off with 3 Recharge SOs.
* Why take fire shield? I'd take it, but then again, it's a utility power.
* Why aren't you slotting up ring of fire? - it does good damage for an immobilize and if you are building a damage build, it *should* be slotted up. It does more damage than flares, and almost as much as fire blast.

For blasters, you need +recharge, +dmg and +hps (to survive incoming damage) in that approximate order. BTW, do you understand how set bonuses and procs work? I'm guessing you don't.

I'd rate your build 1 star out of 5. It's not the worst thing I've ever seen, but it doesn't serve its intended purpose, it's overly expensive, it misuses expensive IOs in several places (lol @ Numina +Recovery in Rise of Phoenix) and doesn't optimize on the set bonuses that blasters should have.

Ice/Devices actually works out pretty well as a solo, ranged character. Use caltrops as insurance to keep mobs from getting into melee; use web grenade as an immobilize to keep stuff at range; use cloaking device to move yourself into position, etc. However, devices tend to favor a methodical play style and that may not fit with what you're looking for.

I'd recommend Ice/ice if you're looking to build a ranged type character with some utility support. Chillblain is a higher damage version of web grenade, shiver is a great AoE -rech and slow, and ice patch can be used much like caltrops.

The only thing I agree with is your statement that "not all blasters are created equal." I take that to mean that some have stronger synergies between their power sets or that some power sets are somewhat stronger than others.

However, most of the rest of your post I disagree with. Maybe I can chalk that up to play style differences or perhaps the lack of experience you have with certain power sets.

Biggest points of disagreement:

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The most obvious conclusion I can make is that the other sets are overpowered dramatically by Mental Manipulation.

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I think MM is okay, as in middle of the road okay. Drain psyche is great, and but what's overpowered about it is the -regen, not the heal / recovery. I'm okay with the latter; the former steps on the toes of controllers/defenders/corruptors in disrupting AT balance. The -regen for this power isn't "light" by any means, and does more than defender versions of transfusion (kinetics) and twilight grasp (dark).

I think that the -regen will probably be adjusted at some point, but the other parts of MM are okay. World of Confusion and Scare aren't exactly impressive and the other powers are on par for what I expect from a blaster secondary.

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Devices is problematic for me. It seems almost entirely group-oriented. I've seen /Devices blasters solo well, but they don't really seem to excel to me unless they're in a large group. A lot of that has to do with the lack of click self-buffs that other blasters get. Targeting Drone and Cloaking Device are worth-while powers, but their bonuses don't really seem to make up for their limitations.

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This is wrong and probably influenced to the fact your devices is ony level 21. Devices is better solo since you can use things like trip mine, time bomb, gun drone at your leisure. No fast moving group will wait while these are deployed.

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My highest /Devices blaster is only about 21, so that could be shaded by inexperience with higher-level play. However, if I were going to make any changes to this set to make it more attractive, it would be to make the toggle buffs more powerful. I'd add a small +resist component to Cloaking Device (and maybe increase its +defense, too), and a small damage bonus to Targeting drone.

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I wouldn't hold your breath for buffs to devices. Castle looked at this set and added a stealth strike buff and then was told to take it away. What was left was a +dmg buff with targeting drone when using your snipe. Whoopee.


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Energy Manipulation is probably my favorite secondary set. My Energy/Energy blaster was my first 50, and I love the visual effects and knockback it comes with. I've also got a Psi/Energy coming up on her mid-40s. However, this set still doesn't quite measure up to /Mental in terms of power and utility. It's very viable in groups and somewhat less viable solo.

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I chalk this up to a play style difference. Energy manipulation because of its extremely potent single target blaps, controls and utility powers is probably the consensus strongest blaster secondary by everyone except maybe yourself.

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It also offers what I consider to be one of the most 'skippable' powers in game: Boost Range. Solo, Boost Range means you can use your stronger powers without moving around so much. In groups, it means you can pull from slightly longer distances. It adds so little to a blaster's repertoire that many consider it to be a complete waste. I don't quite think it's a complete waste, but I wouldn't recommend it to many.

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Boost range shines when applied to AoEs and cones. Since you've paired the secondary with mostly single target primaries (energy, psi), you probably wouldn't know that.

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I would bring Energy Manipulation up in attractiveness and utility to Mental Manipulation a few different ways. The first thing I'd do would be decrease the recharge time on 'Conserve Power' a bit. Maybe 25% or so. This would allow 'conservationists' (like myself) to have a bit more control over their end expenditure.

To counter the sheer uselessness of Boost Range, I'd add a small-to-moderate -recharge component to it to not only allow /energy blasters to use their powers at longer ranges, but to also use them more frequently.

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Energy manipulation doesn't need a buff at all. It has only one truly skippable power and that's stun (due to animation and redundancy).


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I consider Electric Manipulation to be the second strongest blaster secondary compared to /Mental. Most of this comes from the sheer power of Power Sink. Unslotted, it's an end drain that will make kinetic defenders cry and will always keep the blaster full on end. Slotted, and possibly in conjunction with other end draining powers, it will turn the blaster into an electric-powered machine of destruction solo or in groups.

/Electric's real weakness is that aside from its drains, it doesn't do a lot to protect the user. There's no heal along with all the free endurance, and the few status effects are all single-target, meaning that large groups will still do bad things to you.

However, having all the free endurance gives you the ability to run a LOT more powers than most blasters. My 50 Elec/Elec runs Combat Jumping, Acrobatics, Tough, Weave, and Charged Armor without any Fitness or Stamina.

That brings up the second, 'however'. The single hold in /electric can be augmented greatly with holds in other sets, including the 'epic' APPs.

Accordingly, I wouldn't do anything to Electric to make it more attractive or powerful. While it isn't quite up to /Mental's level, it allows for a broader range of secondary and tertiary options.

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This is obviously from a perspective of a gamer that doesn't go into the fitness pools. I will even bet you skip most of the electric blaps. Again, a perspective, a limited one, that comes from a play style that differs from many.


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Fire Manipulation's big strength is the same as Fire Blast. It does great damage, coming up short only against enemies who are strongly resistant to fire. It also comes with Consume, meaning that the blaster can keep himself topped up on End when well-slotted. Careful use of Burn means that the blaster can always be free of all but the most powerful status effects. It doesn't offer a lot of protection for the blaster, which seems to make it more useful in teams than solo.

My highest /Fire character is 20ish. The only reason I haven't spent more time with her is simply because I've been playing other blasters. However, I've seen /Fire blasters do well both in teams and solo.

The only thing I'd do to this power is to make Consume offer a small, perhaps even non-enhanceable heal. It'd fit with the theme of other fire powers like 'Healing Flames' and make /Fire blasters slightly more durable when they choose to solo.

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Fire manipulation is the hardest secondary for most players because it offers zero to no mitigation apart from an afraid component in burn very late in your career. Go take your /fire blaster against the late 30s and early 40s mobs and it will become frustrating solo if you play at anything higher than tier 1 difficulty.

By the way, your information is outdated. Burn only offers minor immobilization protection, not full status protection.

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Like Devices, Ice can be problematic when solo. It performs okay on teams, but I feel that the other sets outperform it even then. My highest /Ice blaster is late 30-ish, so higher-level play may change that a bit.

Due to the lack of any kind of end utility or defensive utilities in the set, /Ice blasters tend to have to rely on slows and the knockdown effects of Ice Patch. This means using a lot of powers all the time. Rather than this set making other powers work well, as in the case of electric's end drain fueling Fighting toggles, a lot of ice blasters feel they need the Fitness set to even consider using it.

Ice Manipulation offers as its tier 9 power, 'Frozen Aura', an AOE sleep. In the world of 'AOEs Win', dedicated sleep powers don't play well in groups.

To make this set more attractive to soloers and for group usage, I'd make a few significant changes. First, I'd place a small bit of defense in Frozen Aura. Second, I'd increase the radius of Ice Patch slightly and add the same status buff that Burn gets. Lastly, I'd add a small endurance recovery buff to Frozen Aura... make it so that it works something like a 'single target Heat Loss'

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I have a 50 ice/ice blaster and much of what you wrote is incorrect. /ice has quite a bit of mitigation packed into it. Did you take powers like shiver? You also have a very fast activating / high damage melee hold as well. I found that /ice manipulation blasters are exceedingly easy to level up solo.

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These are my thoughts. Please note that I am in no way nerfherding. I'd prefer things to remain the way they are rather than see a single set nerfed in any way. Corrections or comments are highly welcome.

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I don't consider this nerfherding. I just think you need to play blasters a little more. I don't agree with your observations.

It's been done. Do a search for Silverado and check out the pictures of the stuff he's beaten with a Rad/Sonic. He's even got a shot of him soloing Lusca.

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I'm not really sure they can ever balance PvP in this game because it is inherently broken, because it wasn't a part of the equation right from the beginning. I wasn't around in this game's first days but from what I understand, there was no PvP at all until CoV was released. None. Zero. There is the root of the problem right there. The devs simply don't give a damn about PvP, it's not what they're passionate about, and they obviously don't have much experience with it. I'm really not sure what they could do at this point to fix it and I'll leave that up to people more knowledgeable about this particular game than I.

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Actually, that's not correct. PvP pre-dates CoV by a couple of issues I think. It is correct to say there was no zone PvP before CoV, but the arena preceded that.

Also, if you read the long past dev interviews (there's even a video by Jack Emmert about this), PvP was actually conceptualized for this game from the very beginning. However, it's clear to me that the original dev team had so many difficulties in even getting the PvE aspects correct that such an assertion, while technically correct, is really a moot point.

The most passive character I can think of is a FF defender, probably followed by a sonic defender then maybe a cold domination defender.

Villain side, it's probably MMs, though depending on the secondary, they can be extremely active as well too. You definitely won't like brutes - they're worse than scrappers.

Most active hero side: scrappers, blasters (except devices), tanks
Most active villain side: brutes

Power sets that are methodical: /traps and /devices, stalkers, trick arrow

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Welcome back , unfortunately those of us who have being playing have seen what your referring to, and it's sad that you came back from all those issues ago and recognized this and the devs act like it ain't the truth. In answer to you question about why don't they bring this to pve, the answer is it would be a outcry of flames so GREaT that it would melt BaBs gloves.

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I think your point on this is very well taken. The devs make radical changes to powers in PvP causing powers that are laughable in PvE to become extremely powerful and then they don't apply consistency to it and only make it a PvP change.

If you're going to normalize damage to activation and animation times, then do it on both sides, not just PvP. The way it is right now, it's bizarre taking what would be considered a good PvE build (at least from a power choice perspective) and taking it into PvP and have everything function completely in ways you don't expect.

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hello fury_flechette, I remember who you were, just quit the game(if you came back for pvp) or just go pve

let me sum up pvp in two words
damage spam

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I'm going to take your advice to heart. I'll probably get a few characters IO'ed, chat with SG mates and keep it pretty casual. PvP is nuts in this game.

Reading the responses, it looks like I'm a number of issues too late and making the same observations/complaints that you all have made already. Sad it fell on deaf ears.

A couple of weeks ago, I went in for my first foray into PvP since, oh, issue 8. I took a long hiatus from this game, and came back about a month ago. I understood that in between the time I left and the time I came back, the devs "balanced" PvP.

I digested some of the changes from the patch notes and from some experimentation on my own. I understand what they were trying to do, but come away with the impression that they just didn't think things through. I have no opinion negative or positive about heal decay, travel suppression, differing values of damage powers in pvp, diminishing returns, etc. Honestly, I'm still trying to make sense of most of it.

However, here are some things I don't understand:

1. Powers should behave reasonably similarly in PvP and PvE. I've always expected some sort of kludge in regards to powers in PvP (i.e., toggle drops, mez suppression), but with post issue 12 changes, almost nothing works the same in PvP than in PvE. Almost everything has differences. Heals decay, mez protection isn't protection, almost everything suppress travel powers. This is just bad design.

2. Power value differences between PvE and PvP are too extreme. I tried ripper on my spines scrapper and was underwhelmed about how little it seemed to do. I was advised, in earnest, that I spec into barb swipe to seriously increase my damage output. Barb swipe is considered a garbage power in PvE, but in PvP, it is now elevated into one of the strongest attacks in the game. Note that ripper is a high damage power in its description while barb swipe is considered minor.

I get that the devs are trying to normalize damage with activation times. If that's the case, then that should've been carried over to the PvE game too. That would have at least made things consistent.

3. Support types seem absolutely useless. Dimishing returns and heal decay means that heals, force field bubbles, resistance buffs are all worth less. This is in direct contrast to the PvE game where the synergies of support ATs mesh well with those that do damage. I am dismayed to see that one of the underlying philosophies that makes this game fun in PvE has been pretty much cast aside in PvP.

4. I'm pretty tired of playing whack-a-mole of keeping up with the latest FOTM build in PvP. Apparently, now defense types are out of favor and new dominant builds have emerged yet again. In order to keep up with what works best with the latest rule changes, do I have to continually farm and PL new characters? After a while, this gets old fast.

I'm not sure what the vision the devs have for PvP in this game. It comes across as one poorly implemented kludge after another, even if that wasn't their intention. The biggest irony to me of this whole thing is that with the extreme differences in power stats from PvE to PvP, the casual player is left out in the cold more than ever.

I don't think it should take research into City of Data to determine what's a good power in PvP. A power that's good in PvE *should* be good in PvP. However, in trying to come up with a good build for PvP, that's what you have to do because not only are the in game descriptions are misleading but everything works differently.

And the inconsistency and the rapid change of rules seem to work against any but the most dedicated players who are willing to keep up with the changes.

Bottom line: bad design, poor and inconsistent implementation, rules that are in a constant state of flux = PvP I don't want to play.

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If you were going to make a 100% team oriented SS/Inv build what would be your optimal build?

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This will come off much more snarky than it's intended, but my team oriented build would be exactly like the build I'd be soloing with.

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And your right, soft capped defense doesn't have a crash. It does have a huge inf cost in expensive IOs, and having to go into the fighting pool or leadership pool for more defense. My main isn't fully IOed with sets yet. Why not? Because unlike what people think a 50 is capable of doing, I can't afford them all. I'm constantly broke getting one IO at a time. That, and those super expensive pieces of salvage.

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Soft capping SR != expensive. I've done it 3 times on characters that were holdovers from issue 7/8 that started with probably 10M between the three of them. I have farmed/marketed so they had more than that eventually, but I don't think it's unreasonable to be able to soft cap a character for about 30M total.

Red Fortune are pretty cheap except for the defense and def/end pieces. I've bought the other pieces for as low as 1000 inf each.

Gaussians 6 slotted is pretty cheap too, especially if you go for some really low level recipes. What you care about is the +2.5% def.

Steadfast Res/Def - low level ones are surprisingly cheap and since you really don't need it for the resistance, it works just fine.

Mako's Bite and Touch of Death have both become rather affordable since people have been going for Bronze rolls and have churned out recipes of these sets by the legion. Smart bidding will get you them cheap, and you can use MA tickets to buy those expensive pieces of salvage you need to craft them.

Multi-strike work pretty well in place of the much more expensive Obliteration pieces. Sure, it doesn't provide as much but it's decent enough until you can afford better.

Only Zephyr's are expensive and you can soft cap without them as a SR.

I'm not posting this to be snarky or look down on you. I just think you ought to re-look at your options. With MA, there hasn't been a better or easier time to grab what you need to make your SR character better for cheap.

Possibly the worst suggestion I've ever read in this forum.

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and the 30 day version you get with the Mac edition.

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The Mac Pack doesn't come with a Jetpack. It only comes with a Mission Transporter and Valkyrie Costume Pieces.

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I got the two mixed up. My bad. I was aware that there was a jet pack that came with an online purchase, but I didn't match it up with the right option.

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The only jetpack vendors blueside are in the Shadow Shard.

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Oh, forgot about that one. Too bad it's 40+.

I am looking to build a single target destroyer type scrapper. I already have a shield type character and don't want to start another one.

DM/Shield seems to be the clear standout in terms of single target effectiveness. What's a good second alternative? Primary, secondary doesn't matter. DM would be okay as a primary, but shield is out.

Any suggestions?

In Grandville, there's a handy Jet Pack vendor. Is there an equivalent one hero side? I'm aware of the one in Siren's Call, but he isn't always selling. And I'm aware of the one you get in the first Safeguard mission and the 30 day version you get with the Mac edition. I was wondering if there was another one blue side?

I'm trying for a natural type hero character, but one who occasionally relies on technology. A flight pack I could buy without hassle (and is also renewable) would make this a much more doable concept.

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According to what you just said, without any of those you can't complete this SF.

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No, not exactly, though maybe I wasn't as clear as I could've been. Those things make the SF go easier, but they aren't hard and fast requirements for completion.

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While any TF blueside you could be braindead & still win so long you have your team there, including there Big Boy STF, the STF is 500x easier then LRSF.

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I've failed many more STFs than LRSFs, so I guess YMWV. Though, I don't think the STF is that tough either.

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So no random PuG can do this, unlike Blue where its high favors a Random PuG will do this.

If I go in to LRSF with 2 Brutes(Non Granite) Say a Dark Miasma & Pain Corrupter, 2 Doms(Non Mind) & 1 Stalker & 1 MM who say is poison.

Odds are they won't complete this(Because its a PuG you can guess half team if not 90% of them doesnt have a Shivan or Nukes.)

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I've completed the LRSF with far worse teams. And hopefully, I'm not coming across as arrogant or condescending. But my experience is in direct contrast with your statement.

The last time I did the LRSF, Pain Domination wasn't yet an available power set. I have a screenshot (somewhere) where I completed it with 3 dominators (2 x plant, 1 gravity), 1 /dark MM, 2 stalkers, 1 brute, and me (sonic/sonic corruptor). 4 of the team had Shivans and we put them to use, no one had nukes.

We all went to Pocket D, bought purples and oranges, ate a boatload of em and rushed them en masse, taking out Numina and Sister Psyche before we wiped. It took one more mass wipe until we managed to get Statesman and Citadel by themselves, and then it was just two heroes versus 8 villains. It was a special LRSF because neither of the stalkers, the MM and two of the doms had completed it before.

People still complain about this?

I thought that by now there are probably a gazillion guides on how not only beat it, but how to beat it quickly.

Any combination of the following makes it trivial:

* 5 or more corruptors, any variety
* Granite brute
* Mind dom
* 2 or more nukes
* 3 or more VEATs, any variety
* Experienced players (this can be substituted for any of the above).

I haven't done this SF for some time, but I've done it with some teams that were far from optimal. It does not require an optimal team. An optimal team only speeds up the completion time.