Fulmens
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Posts
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Quote:My feeling is that it's a number that sounds large in isolation, but is small compared to the amount of inf in the world. I mean, you figure that I've caused to be burnt (checks latest number) over 70 billion inf, mostly in prestige but some in wentfees doing banking and things, and I don't think I've had any actual effect on prices at all.Originally Posted by Jetpack
I would love to know how much inf. has gone poof with the $20 M A-merit conversion.
If you figure 50,000 accounts [more or less] averaging buying one h/v merit each- that seems really low to me, but I don't have a good number- that's 1 trillion inf. Personally I've done tips on at least 4 characters, so even without accounting for a few hundred reward merits from other sources converted, I've done the "first merit" four times. -
I knew a couple people who farmed up a billion inf [each, independently] before bases went in the game, so they'd be able to start with a good supply of prestige. There was at least one person who got a billion cash for the badge, quite early.
Then they found out how bad the inf-to-prestige ratio was and kept their money in disgust.
So there WAS a lot of inf around in the early days and it spreads fast. Costume recipes were showing up much less frequently than planned, so people were using them as status symbols (I remember someone standing at Wents cycling through THREE DIFFERENT SETS OF WINGS) and they were selling for upwards of 20 million per recipe for some. (Fairy wings were the big one, I remember... but there were more.) Anyway, at that point, the top-end build, with a Miracle/Regenerative Tissue/Numina's combo and whatever else people were building for back then (regeneration rate? Maybe?) went for around 300 million. We couldn't conceive of that much money. It was like a year before I learned there was an inf cap.
There was 3 trillion inf in the game (worked out to something like 30 million inf per player, but 1% of the players had 90% of the money) before anyone had any reason to make money. Once they started working on it, they learned to farm FAST. -
Oh no! Granpa's talking and we can't shut him up!
Quote:Seebs: Consider the person who thinks that 10 million inf is a lot of money. If they can flip 500 Alch Silver a day, which with a lot of work you can do*, and make 20,000 on each, that's 10 million inf a day.My guess is that price fixers, in practice, DO NOT EXIST. It's not practical to try to take over the markets -- especially not now that they're merged.
MOST people who marketeer aggressively do not consider 10 million inf a lot of money. But it only takes, like, ten people who do, and who are all in the same SG. You can actually find the remnants of what I believe to be failed attempts to corner the market on various commons.
1. Find something that has several thousand for sale. It was Kinetic Weapons when I tried it. There were around 4000 .
2. Start buying them up. Destroy, vendor, whatever.
3. At some point when you get to a certain number the price will spike. For me it was about 2300 KW's left, I'd been buying them at 10K or 20K and all of a sudden there were none left for less than 70K. I bought a couple hundred at 70K. 69K did not do it.
OPTIONAL WHITE HAT MOVE:
4. Put about 50 or 100 of your leftover salvage up for laddered prices (stacks at 500, 500, 1000, 2000, 10000, 20000 or whatever) and bid on 20 or 30 at really low prices.
5. Monitor the supply for a couple days while it recovers, flipping your cheap salvage as you go, until there are like 200 salvage over and above "The wall". Random waves wipe out salvage, but 200 is a pretty good buffer and it's just going to get larger.
My theory is that once people fill all the slots with "For sale" stuff and don't have any slots left to buy up, which seems to happen around 1700 slots usually, they give up, but don't delist all their crap. There could be double XP, someone could go for Field Crafter, it could sell. The first time I watched this happen was Demonic Blood, and the price stayed up and the price stayed up and the number for sale slowly grew... and one day 1000 bids disappeared, the price crashed, and the 1600 for sale stayed there for about six months until the 2XP where the Rikti Rush happened. So that one was a real corner on the market.
*In the early days of the market the Luck Charmers (a secret cabal) tried to accumulate enough LC's to drive the number of bids to zero and produce a chaotic, free market for LC's. As a result there was an artificial shortage, and then the prices rose. We decided to lower the prices and slowly drove out flippers. . . by completely controlling the Luck Charm Market. It was all very complex and melodramatic. There were cries of "How did we end up here?" The point being, I flipped 500 LC's a day for a couple months. I don't recommend it.
We also found out that there were HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS of bids under 5000 inf for LC's. I think we ran out of LCs with 800 bids left and a price of 1,111 . -
It used to be 500 Luck Charms a day on a weekday.
LC's were low supply at the time, though (pre-AE ticket rolls, pre-council-dropping-magic, they stop dropping at 25 and slow way down at 20.)
I'd guess 3-4,000 salvage a day for something like Iron. More on weekends. -
Your one stop shop for dang near everything IO-related.
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Quote:It certainly starts that way.Originally Posted by Chaos Creator
That's cheap!
(edit: 209M total for 10 slots...) -
Third "early money" trick- and I don't know if this one is as easy to explain: Level 50 yellow set recipes. If you can buy them for 511 (pick your number of choice) and sell them for 10,000 inf each, you only need to sell six to have 50K. I actually check level 40-50 because some people keep an eye on "Exactly 50". I'm bad at explaining how to do these things because I've done it so much it's built into my fingers.
Also, if you're higher than level 4, you may have salvage of your own to drop on the market. When I did my "first 100 million" thread I started with something like 37K just from selling all my salvage for one inf.
Edit: Fourth. Seebs beat me to it. -
Anything you could do with 20 market slots you could do with two level 10 characters plus gleemail. It's more CONVENIENT to do it with 20 market slots on your field crafter or whomever.
I'd charge on an increasing scale, probably quadratic. 1 M for your first slot, (1+2)= 3M for your second, 6M for your third, 10M for your fourth... 55M for your tenth.
(Shout out to all my Ars Magica peeps!) -
Yeah, crayhal! Stick it to us!
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Quote:Sell MARKET slots. Let's reach out to the people who have the money.
AE slots. A big complaint of AE seems to be the space shortage for missions. Allow people who really want to, to purchase additional arc slots for inf.
On a per-character basis, of course. -
You have to do 2 billion, then people have to go to the market and grab the other X billion/ bid on a level 53, then you do the rest of the trade. As far as I know it's a trust thing.
As I said, never done it myself. -
Someone added an extra zero on a L30 orange. If you tell me what it was and what you paid, I'll get you the money back. (screenshot is ideal if you have it.)
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... when was the last time Malta played fair?
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Quote:Well, you're never going to get the team bonus to recovery on a FF, cause nobody's health moves all that much...Originally Posted by Elimist
Also, I noticed this build seems a bit toggle heavy, and defenders seem to run out of end fairly easily. You sure the +end isn't necessary?
but with decent EndRed in your attacks, you should be OK.
... did anyone point out that Maneuvers isn't fully DEF-slotted? Every half-percent matters when your team is this close to the Defense cap.
( By the way, "four Force Fielders" is me, not you. S-Orbital, Deterrence, Protection Racket, and Fox Fox Sierra are all at level 30 or higher. ) -
Look! Dismissive two-sentence troll!
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It Has Begun (note: extremely large picture.)
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Interesting combo of post and sig.
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Normally "every six minutes" means "recharges in six minutes", not "takes six minutes to set up", dawn, but I can see your point as well.
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I don't think anyone's claiming that there are no flippers, Steele.
We're claiming that flippers can't raise the price above what people are willing to pay. Because we can't. I've left things up for six months in the hope that prices will go back up and they did not. I've put a couple BILLION into buying up stock to try and soak up supply and raise prices, and it didn't work. Twice. (Sometimes I have to learn the lesson more than once.) One of those was even on respec recipes, specifically. I'm sure you'll be happy to hear that I only lost about 20% on my investment.
Canute could not command the tide, and I cannot command the market. -
I have no dev mindreading capabilities, but I think they agree thatQuote:I happen to like the set a lot, but almost everyone wants it to be the set that someone ELSE brings to the game.
It's a dull set that brings extremely large benefits.
Turning one of the knockdowns into a Fireball-level AOE was a large improvement, in my opinion. -
Pretty much, what they said. Ghouls have brilliant anti-herding code built in and it's also wonderfully gruesome in-character.
Was it Macarthur who's plan for the Korean war was "Drive them all the way back to Moscow and nuke them in one place?" If you're going to AOE them, you have to AOE them ALL to death at once. Which is, as you've noticed, kinda hard.
The tactics for ghouls are kinda like the tactics for those Nemesis groups of like five lieutenants. Do it smart or take the big hits. -
There any room left on this dogpile?
EmperorSteele said, way up on the last page:
Quote:So wait. Someone sold a respec for 151M, a price they were willing to take.Sure... they raise it out of the range of the people who have the most complaints against the market already. They prevent the market from working for people who want things quickly and cheaply.
You're missing the fact that there's over 180 bids, and that the price has climbed from 120 million since last week to a peek of 180 million now. Last 5 as of this post:Quote:Right now there are something like 50,000 accounts, maybe a few more, and right now- 10 AM Saturday- there are 20 individual respec recipes for sale.
Doesn't sound to me like "sell them to the people who want them" would make much of a dent in demand, does it?
180M
155M
175M
175M
~151M (all today)
Why can't everyone get it for 151? Because some silly person bought it and relisted it for 175M. The flipper prevented someone else from getting that particular, specific recipe at that lower price. How's that doing the market any good? The only person befitting is the flipper. Even the original seller got shafted, because someone else might have bid a bit more instead of the bare minimum.
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-STEELE =)
Someone else bought a respec for 175M, a price they were willing to pay.
Anyone could have looked at that last 5, put in a bid at 152M, and waited.
Four people didn't.
It's starting to sound like you're angry that other people are willing to outbid you.
By the way: You're quite sure that flippers control the prices. Last week eradication quads (crafted) were selling for 80M. This morning they're selling for 20M. Does that sound like anyone's controlling anything? [I note in passing that the price of the recipe has not changed from the 4-10M range. ]
I also note in passing the following:
About a month ago Going Rogue launched, with a freespec included. It seems to take most people about a month (3-6 weeks, say) to get characters to level 50. [I base this on the spike in purple prices.] Many people have used their freespec up either at 50, or on the way.
... The freespecs which depressed recipe prices are running out. -
I don't remember prices being that high before I18, but that's not a reliable memory...
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EmperorSteele said
Quote:I'm still trying to get my head around this.Maybe prices wouldn't be so high if everyone who wanted to equip [respec recipes] could have bought them by now, but were denied when someone else bought and re-listed.
A flipper is someone who doesn't change the number for sale, only the price point. Can we agree on that, EmperorSteele? They buy something and put it back up for resale immediately.
Right now there are something like 50,000 accounts, maybe a few more, and right now- 10 AM Saturday- there are 20 individual respec recipes for sale.
Doesn't sound to me like "sell them to the people who want them" would make much of a dent in demand, does it? -
To my surprise and delight, we have five Benefactors!
Enyalios, Nethergoat, Pitho, BashfulBanshee, and a fifth benefactor who has not yet revealed themselves!
What you get:
A room named after you
As many characters in the SG as you like, all at the Benefactor rank
Your name in the MoTD
Anything else I think of
And of course the gratitude of the Loyal Opposition SG.
Thank you for making this possible.