Fulmens

Every time I get on a team that's had its morale broken, and I bring my Force Field defender.

Invited to a timed Devouring Earth mission, +4 to the group, fourteen minutes left on the clock and with us, there's five guys on the team and it's still set for eight? "I'll be back with S-Orbital." We won.

Hour and a half into a way-too-hard Oranbega mission, repeated teamwipes, people have started hearing the Call of the SG? "No. We aren't going to lose. I'll be back in two minutes. Just do what I tell you and we will beat this."

Other Defenders do more. But sometimes, a singletarget hold, some knockback and NOBODY ON THE TEAM TAKING DAMAGE, PERIOD is enough.

Those emps should be playing Force Fields. The fools.

Interesting. My 0-10 million trip (well, 0-5 million) would have been different and, I like to think, faster. I would have fallen way behind, though, on the 100M-1billion part. I believe.

I feel a little better about 200M of your total coming from merits... cause the one evening I spent thinking about this, I wasn't getting anywhere NEAR 1 billion in my head, unless I used merits.

Hmm. if a merit is three minutes of TF work [call it five with overhead], that equates to roughly 6 million inf per hour. And that's very roughly the earning capacity of a level 50... so it passes the sanity check.

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Shouldn't the community take the view that spending 5 Million or so for these garbage IO's a deal?


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For whatever reason, some people who random-roll will put it up anyway even if it's worth more at the vendor. My theory is that they don't want to see the 20 merits "go to waste" but there are undoubtedly a dozen different reasons.

So while a "fair" price for a garbage pool C might be 1 million inf, as long as there are 30 sitting, and the sell rate is 5 a month, nobody's going to let it sit for 6 months waiting to get a million inf.

I'd pay a million for any Pool C without blinking, but my personal minimum bid for any recipe I'm actually going to use is 55K. I figure that's, at the least, a "thank you for tying up the market slot" amount. . .

. .. I value my own market slots at 100K a day minimum, so maybe I should bump my "free recipe" price to 101K.

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What exactly is stopping people from locking their toons at 33 and farming TFs?


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Nothing.I already have two level 50 Fire Blasters, though, and two level 49+ Force Fielders, so if one of those is valuable for a TF I'm likely to bring one of them.

There's a "known shortage" of IO's under level 50 these days.

Most IO's are generated at level (50 or set max) as mentioned. There's a lot of levels which used to get regular supply [e.g. level 33 heroside, 39 or 40 or 41 v-side] that aren't getting any supply any more.

So in THEORY supply is down, demand is still there. I have done level 30 rolling and gotten paid reasonably well for my pains. But I would advise you to do your own research in this case. I might say "roll at 33" but that's about as useful as someone saying "bet on black."

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Which makes it very hard to explain to people too. It's not like we know which ones say "tiny" versus "small" versus "minor" and so on. We just know the numbers 1%, 1.5%, 2%, etc. So when they name the same % with 2 different names it just creates confusion.

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Here's an explanation:
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Invent...t_Bonus_Values

The info is not actually in the GAME, which is a flaw. (There's an enormous amount of inconsistent undocumented "stuff" about the invention system... I gave up keeping track of all of it about the time that I found out that the 3% Psi Res IO's were giving 2.25% to scrappers.)

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Merit prices are based on the set's value in the abstract, not how much value actual players assign to the set.

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I had this vague idea that they said "pool C, 200, pool A, 50" (or whatever) and made slight modifications from there.

Oh yeah? I'll sell people a levelpact spot for a 50% cut of their inf! Beat THAT offer!

Siolfir: You pretty much don't need anything from pool C ever again. Is that correct?

And if it is correct, then why does it matter whether we're dealing in merits or inf or random rolls? You're done getting stuff. You, in the "extremely specific" case, don't count.

Tricia, Flux: Apparently I went with the "worth it to me = worth it" assumptions as well. A mistake. I would expect that, after current inventory clears out, everything on my list will be worth a fairly substantial amount.

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In fact, most of the things on that list are better/more valuable at the lowest level they're available than at level 40 (all procs, for example - especially the stealth ones) and most of the rest are better at levels 34 through 37 rather than 40, for exemplaring.

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If you go to level 35, while you don't get quite as good numbers from [e.g.] the Impervium: Resistance, you only add two recipes to the I12 pool C list. Kinetic combat triple and some ranged one. Entropic Chaos maybe?

I wouldn't put those on the "shiny" list, even though I've used them.

For all the people who have claimed to be "Good at math" or similar, and have stated that Pool C is "full of garbage":

I counted!

I don't know if the new IO's keep the roughly 1:2 good:bad ratio.

But 12 rolls looks better to me, assuming the market doesn't dry up and blow away, than one LOTG.

And speed-TF'ers are going to do that math. Or one of them is going to do the math and the knowledge will spread.

Going back to Energy_Aura's post:

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Here is an example build for discussion purposes:

[...]

So here is the breakout:

Impervium Armor: Resistance - 220
Aegis: End/Rech - 200 (x2) = 400
Scirroco's Dervish: Acc/Dam/End - 200 (x2) = 400
Mako's Bite: Dam/Rech - 200 (x2) = 400
Luck of the Gambler: Def/+Rech 7.5% - 200 (x2) = 400
Numina's Convalescence: +Regen/+Recov - 250
Miracle: +Recovery - 240
Devastation: Dam/Rech - 220
Unbounded Leap: +Stealth - 240

For a grand total of 2770 Merits 2770/55 (Posi Run Hero Side) = 51 times WITH THE SAME GUY. Times 200 minutes (less than your data mine at current) = 10200 mins (170 hours or 7.1 days). The 3 hour break for claiming Merits would be absorbed into the next running of Posi, so 7.1 days of back to back Posi would get 1 character their Merits.

And this isn't even a high end build in my book. My Ill/Rad or Stone Tanker would cost 2-3 times more in Merits.

[...]
55 Posi's on one guy (as Merits don't transfer)? THAT'S INSANE

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Here's an idea: trade in 1000 points for 50 random rolls.
I actually counted: there's 53 things in pool C at level 40.

You won't get "one of everything". I'm not going to work out the numbers for what percentage of how many items you WILL get.

But you'll get more than six of them. I'd bet real money on that.

As for the other 44 or so items you got... think any of them will sell for the vast monies that you "would need to buy anything on the market"?

Here's the level 40 list of pool C shinies that you DON'T want on that build:

Touch of Death: A/D/E
Decimation A/E/R
Devastation: Chance to Hold
Positron's A/D/E
Numina's H/R
Impervium: Psi Res
Gift of the Ancients: Defense
Gift of the Ancients: Runspeed
LOTG: End/Rech
Freebird: Stealth
Celerity: Stealth

I'm probably counting a couple of unwanteds, and overlooking a couple of juicies.

But there's about 11 "sell for a lot" plus 9 that you want. Out of 52.

Now if you WANT to spend 3000 merits instead of 1000, that's your business. But don't pretend that it makes sense.

A couple of "I'm just a player but I think I can answer that" answers:

1.
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Q: Are there any major, easy, exploits that would mean awarding merits to all team members upon completion would not be possible? If not, could you please explain the reasoning for the limitation, and also the impact you think this may/may not have on group vs solo play?


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SYNAPSE'S ANSWER:
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A: The reasoning behind not initially having group members, that are not the mission owner, receiving Merit Rewards is that the original reward system didn’t give mission helpers rewards either. However, we understand how some players might perceive this as a penalty for not being the mission owner and we will consider our options on how to best address this issue.


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MY ANSWER:
Everyone chooses the "complete same mission" answer for everything except the last mission in the arc. The last time through, NOBODY autocompletes. Let's say there are 6 missions in the arc. So you do the first 5 once each. Then your team of 8 does the last mission eight times. 13 missions, 8 "complete arc" bonuses. Prrrrrrobably not the intended result.

2. A lot of people are concerned that "normal play " gets ripped off because, for instance, doing Eden "normally" takes an hour and a half instead of 10 minutes. But the Devs have to look at the total picture. There are two relevant things that any solution has to handle:

1. Everything ends up on Wentworths.
2. One goal is for a normal-size TF to be a reasonable choice for ALL the people who would do a TF.

Taken together, that means that they can't judge Eden by how long it takes the people who are doing it for the first time. Because if I do Eden once every six months, and Squez does Eden eight times a week [with a matinee show on Sunday!] ... Squez is normal. Squez's time is normal. And if I would get an entire recipe for a two-hour Eden, Squez would get two hundred recipes in the same six months, for ten-minute edens. It's like we're voting on how much Eden should be worth, and Squez votes two hundred times for "ten minutes".

#1 means that Squez is dumping Speeden recipes onto Wents at a huge rate.
#2 means that if I want to do a Speeden, I can do it with Squez and a lot of Squezzites. If I want to do ANYTHING ELSE I'm gonna be looking through a much, much smaller pool of jurors. Squez, while I'm slandering him, and his buddies are gonna have a word for people who do Sister Psyche: Suckers.

And that's exactly what we've got now.

Katie Hannon isn't going to disappear. You can do Katie in half an hour; it's a nice snack. If you happen to be under level 34 you get a nice round of "Grats" out of it. It's quick, it's handy, it's fun, it gets you a hat and an Amy and it is, in general, a Good Task Force. It's just going from being "just as good as Manticore and SIX TIMES FASTER" to "one sixth as good as Manticore and SIX TIMES FASTER." Maybe 1/8 as good, I don't know the exact numbers.

For all the people who say "But what if you screw up and the Katie takes two hours?" I'm just gonna say that, back in issue 3, I did Manticore in SEVEN AND A HALF HOURS. Bad things happen all over.

Good meeting you at Comicon.

Good luck and good hunting.

If a "regular speeden" team does this twice a day in 20 minutes, the normal Edenites who do this once a month are going to get swamped.

Hmm. I think you're going to see people doing task forces who are actually of the correct level for the TF. Less people total but more who are "in it for the XP."

I also think you're going to see a lot more people using the random roll than you guys expect.

IF there are 1/5 as many TF recipes as there used to be (less TF's and katies being 1/3 of a roll and whatnot)

AND your roll gives you a 1/3 chance of "Something good"

THEN for 75 merits you get "something good" which will be similar in value to "something specifically good". (I don't know what "similar in value" means, I'll admit.)

My "1/3 chance for something good" is a very rough estimate.

The very good is LoTG +Rech, Numina and Miracle uniques.

The merely good:
* three chances for a nonteleport stealth.
* Gift of the Ancients: Defense
* Devastation: Dam/Rech or Chance for Hold
* Impervium: Resist or Psi Resist
* Decimation: A/E/R
* Aegis: Psi/Status
* Impeded Swiftness: Chance for Smashing
* Mako: Dam/Rech
* Posi: A/D/E or Chance for Damage
* Scir: A/D/E or Chance for Damage
* Touch of Death: A/D/E

That's about 17 out of about 60 on the paragonwiki list- plus the three "very good."

If you take ten rolls you will get on average one of the "excellent" and two of the "good". Plus seven increasingly-rare normal recipes. All for the price of one "Excellent" or "Good" and some spare change.

Do I think that we'll run out of Glimpse of the Abyss: Accuracy/Fear/Recharge ? Not really. But it's going to be rarer and rarer.

I will admit that I'm going to miss some big trends here. Farmers vs. nonfarmers may form two totally different social classes. I don't know.

But my money says "spin the wheel to win."

hmm.

I see at least 6 things from the "random task force" table that are going for 200-240 merits.

Ten rolls on the "random task force" table will get you two of those things on the average. (assuming that all the Stealths are on there at 240, I see nine things on that table.)

So [what you asked for] is indeed much more expensive than [what's behind door number 2]. And selling [what's behind door number 2] items to buy [what you asked for] is almost certainly the way to go, economically.

... of course, the low-end, 50 merit, items may throw that math off. -KB at 50 merits might be worth running two respecs for.

I still have to think about what I feel the "invention reward system" SHOULD accomplish rather than what it DOES currently accomplish.

A world without free fast Katie recipes is a bit disorienting. [And yes, I have played V-side. Hush, you.]

More hmm.

DATA! DATA! DATA!

*starts thinkin'*

Point to consider:

It may be worth making a distinction between powers that benefit from speed a lot (Dull Pain, Inferno) or a little (Boxing).

Once your attack chain is full the benefits of increased recharge, for most characters, are limited to "using better attacks in place of worse attacks." Sometimes this is a spectacular improvement (Super Strength), sometimes not so spectacular (Broadsword.)

There's also the approx. 100 milliseconds between power activations (Arcanaville worked out the hows and whys on this) that is inevitable and cannot be removed.

Some examples of "recharge important" powers off the top of my head:

self-heals
Foot Stomp
Knockout Blow
Blaster Tier 9's
Consume
Energy Absorption
Follow Up (claws)
Moment of Glory

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Don't just limit yourself to recipes. Another neat little trick I use to get some quick cash is to run to the market in Steel Canyon.

Search for SO enhancements, and filter the results to lvl 48-53, For Sale Only. Run through and check the bids that have items for sale, but no bids, and bid anywhere from 100 to 1000 inf. You can usually fill up your enhancement tray 3 or 4 times at that price.

If you stick to just Mutant and Natural enhancements - those stores are in close walking distance to the market. You should have no problem running back and forth, even at level one...and you can unload all your recipes at those stores at the same time.

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It seems very easy, comparatively, to clean out the market for SO's. Not a lot of people put them up for sale. IO recipes seem to have a lot more volume at Wents.

I'm not saying it didn't work when you did it, I'm saying that it could get "overfished" very easily.

OP: Nice work, good guide.

Other People: "THIS MARKET COLLAPSED"- this is one niche. (Or 236 niches, actually. ) It's a very fast-refilling niche and it's really nice for the given purpose.

The people who make billions on the market don't do it this way. They do it a lot of OTHER different ways.

People who want to make a lot of inf graduate from this method as they figure out other ones; people who don't want to make a lot of inf quit this method as soon as they have enough. It's self-limiting.

When the market started, I made fifty million or so- at the time, level 30-40 in recharge and end reduction was what worked for me. Then I found other things to do. I graduated.

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I never was good at numbers, thanks.

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When I finish my heretic's guide to Force Fields, can I quote you?

/em hassle

Nice!

By the way, the Monsters on Monster Island do have levels. It's not specified, but they fight "as if level 50". I didn't know this, and I dragged a bunch of SGmates out around level 43 to fight one. I got an SK and all of a sudden I was doing like five times as much damage.

My wife and I made it to the party after watching the costume contest. Apparently the serious party happened BEFORE we got there and we just caught the wind-down. Still very excellent things [I didn't get to applaud the girl in the "metal" costume w/ lacey cape.] Hung out a bit with Ex Libris, Blue Steel, some of us whose names I didn't get and some who I did.

Also hung out at the CoH booth at a couple points. Got to see Blue Steel tank a highly inquisitive player or two, tried to start a rumor [new EAT: The Devoured!] and showed off some of my characters on a very, very pretty setup. (NOVA on... how big WERE those screens?)