Frostweaver

You know, I did a huge comparison with tons of math showing how stone wo granite and ea wo overload start off about even in general mitigation, with /ea pulling ahead no matter what power pool you added to it, but then I decided that about half the people in this thread can't count past ten with their shoes on and no one really cares anyway, so suffice to say that yes, /ea would be about the same as stone armor if overload was 'full time' like granite.

That's because writing power guides is pretty much obsolete. Except for asking a specific question or two here and there, pretty much everything a guide can tell you you can learn easier yourself with the 'real numbers' feature and Mid's, and the 'tactical' considerations haven't changed much since release, so those ald tactics guides for stalkers are still relevant.

My problem with blueside is not tankers and blasters (although controllers, kheldians, and scrappers fail the 'fun test' now) but I have just DONE the content so many times that it has become boring. especially running to 26 different zones for one contact.

bah. Blueside :P
I was thinking controller, for some weird reason.

so...basically /EA would be hugely improved by accessing the scrapper epp instead of the ppps?


Hell, that sounds like a GREAT IDEA!
let /ea access EPP's instead of PPP'S! good luck finding anyone to play any other secondary after that

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<qr> I haven't read this whole thread but after playing EA lately couldn't the fix be as simple as making Energy Drain more of a clone of Energy Absorption from the Ice Armor set? This would allow you to soft cap defenses easier but not make EA overpowered.

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Been suggested multiple times. would make sense, probably not going to happen.

I think Granite already is the ultimate godmode. and that wouldn't likely displace it. Too little, too late.

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Maybe try to keep the discussion on the issues and suggestions about EA. (not to FrostWeaver)

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and I keep telling people, EA is NOT BROKEN Yes, it could be improved, but that doesn't mean it's broken, there is a huge difference.

Broken is not being able to solo on heroic without inspirations or temp powers. broken is not being able to take a +1 boss without help or a +0 EB WITH inspirations and/or temps.


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Yeah, EA is not broken. But you've to know that people are not that strict about their wording. When people say that a powerset is broken/terrible/horrible/underperforming, you've to read the rest of the post to know what it means. Very often, a simple tuning is all it needs when people say something is broken.

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actually there are some very specific instances that show up a 'broken' powerset. Mostly specific missions.

Some sets (cough fire armor cough) can get owned by a +0 longbow ballista unless you have exactly the right defensive inspirations or enough primary mitigation. Gravity dominators can die regularly inside NORMAL missions without a team. Certain corrupters cannot solo the 'end bosses' in a lot of mission arcs. Some masterminds get beat badly from 12-17. I would argue that even Kinetics, earth control, and a few other sets need some serious looking into, because at certain level ranges they are 'broken'

/EA starts off strong, and never gets any weaker. Therefore, in my not-so-humble opinion, there are other things that need looking into a LOT sooner than /EA does. It doesn't 'take off in strength' in the end game like some sets do, but for an early game set it works quite well... an EA brute is NOT unplayable by any means, it's just slower than most of the other defensive sets... you aren't dying frequently, you simply are getting less exp/hour (although that is mitigated by the fact that you almost never have to run back from the hospital if you play your cards right)

Like I said, I am not arguing that it could use some improvements, but there are other sets that need improvement just as much if not more.

/ea can softcap without using a single IO. It's not easy, but it's possible.

and I keep telling people, EA is NOT BROKEN Yes, it could be improved, but that doesn't mean it's broken, there is a huge difference.

Broken is not being able to solo on heroic without inspirations or temp powers. broken is not being able to take a +1 boss without help or a +0 EB WITH inspirations and/or temps.

'needs improvement' means you are not able to take what some other brutes can take, but can be highly situational. /ea laughs at Wailers, freakshow, and even nemesis, but can be harshed severely by psi-cops, vahz, and COT's. The ONLY problem with /EA is that there are a few MORE enemy groups you tend to avoid than some other sets, and most of them are groups you are forced to fight whether you want to or not.

Any other perceived problems with /ea stem from misuse, assuming that a brute is a 'redside tanker' instead of a single-target high-endurance killing machine.


Here is an example of a soft-capped /ea brute

Now, you wouldn't USE this kind of a build (at least I wouldn't) because it's light on the offense, but it is clearly POSSIBLE, and the only other brute or stalker sets that can soft-cap defenses without io's or tier9 godmodes is SR.

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honestly, I wouldn't use this build, it's just to show it's possible. energy/fire/cold are soft capped, s/l are 3% shy of soft-cap but make up for it with 30% resistance, /neg isn't soft capped but has 12% resistance to help a little, and a reasonable 38% defense, and psionic even has a healthy 21% defense. all without the use of a single IO. paired with a primary like ss/dark/stone, you could easily survive and thrive without even the need for aid self (although I'd probably take it in deference to the fly pool if I were going stamina-less) and with a few IO's you are well into the survival range of /sr, trading scaling resistances for a flat resistance boost and an HP buff in overload.


yes, /ea needs some help, but this whole 'lolea' thing only exists because some forumgoers need to insult something to salve their terrible self-esteem. Bullies to the core.


-edit Okay, I was WRONG! /SR can't softcap ANYTHING without IO's or it's tier 9, unless it skips the fitness pool.

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It comes close, but 43% is still shy of soft-cap, and it has much lower resistances at full health.

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First of all, who plays Electric Armor? I've yet to see one since they came along.

Second, all Stalker Secondaries have Hide, which gives very good defense to AOEs. Even without that, you can AS a controller with Hot Feet by Flying over them or hitting a purple or something.

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I do.

It's actually not all that bad with ma/. Very survivable, although you can't really get in a good placate/as while getting pounded on.

It seems a lot more survivable at low levels than the defense sets, though. I think people should give it a shot, and just remember it's a lot more scrappery of a style after the initial AS burst.

It's kind of odd... you count on the crit chances instead of on guaranteed crits, but when it comes right down to it, I am critting ALL the time regardless of the guaranteed crits being lacking. and against single targets like bosses and eb's, electric is in, actually, a BETTER position than most defense-based stalkers... Ballistas punch through defense like it's not even there, and electric armor almost totally nullifies them.

a weird thing about resistance-based stalkers too, getting caught by a wailer seems to have little to no effect on electric armor... I think because resistance debuffs resistance debuffs, and also because they are so overwhelmingly s/en damage, which is easy to slot for and which electric defends against highly effectively.

I have a habit of taking the underdog sets to the extremes they are capable of, and I will freely admit my initial impression of electric armor was wrong... it's not nearly as gimped as I had expected.

I think I finally realized part of the problem with EA.

it doesn't synergize with itself.

Basically it's like this. the stealth makes it perfect for single-target snipping. everything about the set is geared towards single target... from the stealth to the fact that it doesn't rely on hordes of mobs to increase it's survivability... I mean, it doesn't even have a taunt aura.


the problem comes from just one power.

Energy Drain.

Energy drain requires multiple mobs to be effective. And yet, frankly, the set is geared towards single target. being surrounded by multiple mobs just doesn't help it in any appreciable way.

Now, by itself, conserve power just is weak. It's great for an APP or to add something extra to a set, but in energy it is, frankly, worse than a self-res compared to energy drain.

So you have two powers, the tier 7 and tier 8, that should add considerably to the ability of the set and it's 'completeness', and should improve the 'feel' of the set, and all the do is detract from it. There are already two 'skippable' powers in the set, why should the tier 7 and 8 be just as skippable?


I know that Castle doesn't want to change the set in a fashion that would make it's 'feel' change, but I think that the tier 7 and 8 should be addressed, and quite possibly replaced. I like energy drain, but I would happily substitute something BETTER for the set as a whole.


My suggestions:

Tier 7- Energy affinity
Your body is capable of channeling and redirecting the energy running through it in a highly efficient manner, reducing the energy demands of all powers, and protecting your energy from the tampering of others.
toggle- provides 30% reduction on endurance use for all powers (like a much weaker form of conserve power) end cost .26/sec, grants 40% endurance modification resistance, and +26% energy resistance. Resistance modification enhancements slotted into this power will improve your endurance modification resistance (both to drains and to recovery debuffs) and endurance modification enhancements slotted into this power will increase the endurance savings. endurance reduction will lower the toggle cost.

Tier 8- Energy Doppelganger. This power creates an energy form to distract attention away from you, and many enemies will turn and face the wrong opponent.

Creates a pet with a taunt aura similar to rttc, that affects up to 5 opponents. It does NO damage, the pet looks like your shield special effects, kind of the way jack frost looks like an ice tanker's shields. The pet is not buffable, but is EXTREMELY tough (capped resistances and defense) similar to singularity. It takes 1 second to cast and lasts for 2 minutes, with a 4 minute recharge.

would you give up energy drain for a 12.5 psi defense toggle?

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Frostweaver, how do you rationalize Electric having Psy resistance when EA can't have Psy DEF? Basically, I'm trying to imply that if a set based on Electricity(read:Energy) can be rationalized to have Psy protection, certainly a set based on Energy can.


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I'm not Frost weaver.

For electric armor, the description for static armor says that "Static Shield can also help normalize your synaptic activity, granting you good resistance to Psionic Damage." You just have to cook up something to explain how entropy(most people suggest adding psionic defense to entropy shield) grants you psionic defense.

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I don't try to rationalize psi defense into electric. I think it has no place there, and I guess it was just added for balance reasons.

Although I can THINK of a rationalization... your brain and nervous system work by passing electrical impulses around, I suppose an electric user can strengthen those impulses so that they are less vulnerable to outside influences.

wow. that kinda makes sense donit?

EA as it SHOULD have been designed:

1: Kinetic Shield- 12.8% defense to smashing, lethal, and 15% resistance to energy damage, 12.5% resistance to endurance drain effects.
2: Dampening field- This ability produces a mild dampening field that reduces all incoming kinetic damage, as well as reducing the endurance cost of all powers used. 12.5% resistance to smashing, lethal, energy. 12.5% resistance to endurance drain effects, 22.5% end cost reduction. 12.5% resist defense debuff. +15% hp
3: Power Shield- 12.8% defense to fire, cold, energy, 9.8% defense to negative, 15% resistance to energy damage, 12.5% resistance to endurance modification effects.
4:entropy shield- protection from knockback, repulse, teleportation, hold, disorient, sleep. 12.5% resist defense debuff. 12.5 resist endurance modification effects.
5: energy protection: 12.5% resistance to energy and negative energy damage, 12.5% resistance to endurance drain effects. 12.5% resist defense debuff. 22.5% endurance cost reduction. +15% hp
6: energy cloak: 3.75% defense to all. 12.5% resistance to endurance modification effects. 12.5% energy damage resistance.
7: energy drain: self +25% end, foe -25% end. mag 4 taunt 13.5 seconds.
8: Alter Phase: phase shift duration 30 seconds, recharge 180 seconds, +300% endurance regeneration.
9: Overload: +12.5% defense to all except psionics, +200% health regeneration.+12.5% defense debuff protection, +25% resistance to endurance modification effects. +15% hp. Duration 180 seconds, recharge 540 seconds. No crash.

-edit
Note that this would be a lot 'friendlier' for tankers, especially if energy cloak were replaced with something akin to rttc (but with better taunt)... but if they give a version with rttc to both tankers and scrappers I will be majorly peeved.

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Don't get me wrong. I ran the ITF for the first time a while back on my EA brute and only recently found out from reading the forums that people consider it hard. My EA rocks. But when I come up against a mob with heavy defense debuffs and my already below par shields are gone, I would like to have something besides stealth and endurance. That's why I thought of enhanceable defense debuffs. But giving those to EA might be thought of by the devs as robbing SR of its glory of defense set par excellance. What are your thoughts?


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While I don't know if they should be enhanceable, I DO know that they should be much higher than they are now. /ea's shields are practically the definition of non-dodge-based deflection, and higher defense debuff resistance would be highly thematic. I don't think it would steal SR's glory because SR shouldn't have it... most creatures that debuff defense do it with the 'ablation' theme, and dodging has nothing to do with ablation. besides, SR gets damage resistance that scales as it takes damage, which no other set gets.

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Why no psi defense? Tons of sets have psi protection these days. Others have positional defense. Others have heals. Others have slows. EA has a cloak and endurance. What does this do for anything against psi? I agree no heal. So this kinds of leaves us with the option of just flat getting rid of the hole with some defense or something. Why would psi defense ruin the way EA plays? I agree a heal would. But why would getting rid of the psi hole make EA into something it is not? I am talking about giving it the same low defense numbers as smashing, or maybe even as low as negative. This would make EA play like EA does now against everything else.

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Once again, thematics. Force fields are the name of the game for /ea, kind of a 'melee force field' set. On the whole, that implies kinetic manipulation (ie. stopping incoming damage on an atomic scale) fire excites molecules, energy passes molecular vibration from one molecule to another, cold slows molecular motion, s/l moves molecules directly. What does psi do? it screws up your brain with some kind of 'mind force' that has pretty much nothing to do with molecular motion or fields at all. Dark is the same way... it's not something physics has an explanation for, and energy aura is all about the 'spurious physics'. Also, every set has a hole, and I'm much happier with a psi hole for a brute than I would be with...say... a fire hole. And the lack of confuse and fear protection kind of go hand in hand with the whole weakness to non-spurious-physics thing.


Truthfully, my biggest problem with the way /EA runs is in the lack of one, single power.

a 'phase style' end rejuvenator.

Honestly, I think sharing conserve power and energy drain with electric is just... well... stupid. Electric is supposed to be all about soaking up someone else's energy, and energy aura is all about your OWN energy.
While I don't think energy should get max energy resistance, I DO think that it should have electric's invulnerability to endurance modification effects.


Now, thinking about it as I write this post, here's an idea... Please guys, think carefully about it before condemning it out of hand.

One of the biggest problems with EA is it's inability to contribute to mob positioning.

Is it possible to make energy drain have two components? The first component is an 'energy sap' similar to what it has now, but with less endurance drain for you, and the second component would be... well... for lack of a better words, 'inverted knockback'. It would be a repulsion effect that, instead of pushing mobs away, pulls them towards you? increased radius on energy drain would, of course, be part of it (perhaps standard AOE radius)

I honestly don't know if it would be possible with the way that the powers are set up right now, and I know it is NOT a minor fix, but it would give energy aura a HUGE level of utility without altering the set too much as it stands or changing the feel.

No, ice doesn't get EA's perks. EA can roll without stamina easily, ice can't without self-weakening or expensive IO slotting.

It's not just the end cost of running the toggles that are the problem, it's ALSO the fact that /ea has more resistance to s/l than ice (ice has none), is able to put out almost the same defense as ice armor against more damage types (about 1.5% less, plus realistic fire defense) PLUS has the anti-aggro of energy cloak to compensate for lacking CE.

don't get me wrong, as my forum handle implies, I am an ice tanker first and foremost, and as my sig implies I am probably the strongest supporter of /ea out there (I find a LOT of similarities to the sets that suit my playstyle) but what I DON'T want to see is ruining the feel of /ea by giving it a recon or dp clone and massive defense bonuses to make it exceed ice TANKER defenses significantly... It's a brute set here, not a tanker set, and it doesn't NEED a heal to make it viable. and all the people agitating for a self-heal are basically agitating for something that will not happen and should not. You are muddying the waters when what we should be looking at is a way to IMPROVE the set without turning it into what it isn't and ruining the way it plays.

NO psi defense for /EA
NO heal for /EA

Changing that would change the entire focus of the set irrevocably. So let's see what we can do to make it better WITHOUT changing those two concrete facts around which the set is built.

+HP in the passives instead of the tier 9 is a good idea.
a taunt component in energy drain is a good idea.
Beyond those ideas, I have seen very few ideas that don't simply turn /ea into stone armor without granite.

And no matter how many snide comments you make about people's ability to read, so far you haven't added anything useful other than 'make /ea more like ____'.

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Ice also has no stamina requirement, and can keep their blue bar full. You see Ice has a little power called Energy Absorption, and it allows /ice to refill it's blue bar just as often as EA can. Then using the excuse of being able to use more pools, that also means ice can have conserve power as well as a pool power.


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Ice armor is very very difficult to run without stamina. It's useful shields net out to 1.56e/sec without adding in additional toggles for capping and survival (tough/weave) for someone who runs ice as a primary aggro magnet to tank effectively. with tough weave it caps at 2.21 end/sec. Very very expensive in endurance terms.

/ea can get away without being an aggro magnet and has less need for t/w, and thus can get away with about 1.04 end/sec use without the need for tough-weave. even with t/w it still caps at about 1.67 end/sec, which means that an /ea brute has a lot easier of a time running without stamina than an ice tanker. (of course this leaves out the fact that brutes attack a lot MORE, on average, than tankers do)

so basically what are you saying?
That both of /EA's passives should give a 30% modifiable hit point boost, take it out of the tier 9, and call it done?

sounds good to me

Carrion creepers, not Carrion Crawlers.

Carrion crawlers are those level 2 D&amp;D monsters that look like giant cthulhu caterpillars that like to eat newbies.

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I'll be making a guide as Pretty Strong gets up in level. Just don't take the Pretty Cloak. You want everyone to see you craking noeses

[serious] Frost has got a good guide for a Dark/EA out there. The mace powers are a bit different but taking them to taste should serve you well [/serious]

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I plan on making a new guide for wm/ea after I get black mallet to about 40. Hopefully without as much defensiveness.

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I thought Frost was running one on Liberty. That's where I'm running Pretty Strong, my favorite level 12 brute

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I was, but it's hard finding experienced players with those builds :P
right now it has THREE people! and one of them's me


I got Black Mallet up to 26 now... the really scary part is, he's actually quite solid. He's definitely not a team tanker, but hey... There's a heck of a lot of amusement value to be had watching that fire armor brute repeatedly faceplant while you just keep killing .

I think maceymace may have stumbled on a really good combination out of the two underperformers. Kinda like claws/sr used to be considered 'teh gimp' for scrappers.

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as a new wm/ea brute what powers do i take/not take?

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Just don't forget to take the 'I win' button and you should be fine.

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You ppl are haters, I will show yu that I am right and telling the truth.

You can't deny factrs.

Here is a screenshot of me being STRONG and pretty.

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OMG THAT'S THE FUNNIEST THING I HAVE EVER SEEN!!!!!!!!

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I really hope that's exaggeration, because, if not, you REALLY need to get out more.

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Actually base EA is weaker than Rest for all the damage types.

With brute modifiers, only Base Electric comes close to this, being weaker than rest for all but energy. Base SR has a handfull of environments where it's weaker, and Invul and Ice have one or two such environments.

Other sets outperform rest everywhere.

Is this the end all and be all of set comparisons?

Certainly not. It is however rather embarrasing to find yourself defending the virtue of a set that gives you less chance of surviving than kneeling before your foes yes?

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I like how you keep repeating this Argumentum Verbosium as if it's true. One thing you fail to take into account, and the basis of your lie, is that rest is better than /ea (and electric armor, and regen if it's ported to brutes, and SR, and stone armor outside of granite) is that it gives you -1000 resistance and -10000 defense.

But, by all means keep displaying your ignorance, it makes every other fact that you parrot without understanding suspect, and does more to help my case than yours.

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Does EA lend itsself more than some sets to enhancement with pools and IOs? yes more than some, less than others. This needs to have some small weight, but nothing like the weight of the simple fact that base EA is less durable than three slotted rest.


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since we are trading falsehoods, apparently.

But do keep lying. It's amusing.