Frosticus

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Yeah, no. The "800lbs gorilla" forums has tons of dev and community rep

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When you say that, do you mean that actual developers post and interact with the community, or that developer representatives post and interact with the community?

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I'm not familiar with that game's forums, but I'll just ask with regard to here.

If you get a response from say Niviene do you mentally categorize that as less meaningful and important than a response from Castle? Are you inclined to be skeptical of something Niviene tells you and seek confirmation from an actual dev? or do you take it as a red name post?

If you answered those questions the way I imagine you (generic you) did. Then I think it is clear why having actual dev's post isn't all that important.

In this very thread you can see how easily the actual devs can and will miss important things. Them posting is far more of an illusion that you can connect with them and affect their workload. The chances of it actually happening are verging on insignificant for most forum postings.

Them watching the forums looking for feedback is good I guess (though near the bottom of the barrel in efficiency and akin to finding a needle in a haystack). But having them actually post is generally a waste of time, just like it would be a waste of time if one of the community reps started screwing around with the power's code

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1) Damage. While many other ATs get access to some single target holds and immobilizes, they come equipped with rather perfunctory damage at best. Every Dom/Controller hold/immob comes delivers modest but still substantial damage. This damage can and should be slotted for additional damage, for reason 2.

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While this may be true, the dpa and dpe on holds and immobs are considerably worse than assault powers. I highly doubt the majority of doms either recognize they should slot a 9 second dot for damage, or that ticks of 7 damage would be worth slotting for damage. This is the case for all of the immobs anyway.

If they did upfront damage like mesmerize or lift then ya it would be a more visibly intended damage power.

Some of the holds are front-loaded, but the st hold tends to be the lifeblood of control, even less people will consider putting damage in there.

As you mention, IO'ing can open up possibilities, but your analysis seems to be approaching things from a base line standpoint, of which IO's don't apply.

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3) Area of effect. Control ATs are the only ones with access to AOE immobilize, one of the most underrated controls in the game, and their spammable soft controls can render enemy groups helpless, in many cases without exposing the controlling character to an alpha strike. Defenders have some access to AOE controls, but at a lower magnitude, and blasters have some others, with smaller radii. But at the day's end, control ATs are the kings of AOE control.

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The problem with aoe controls right now for dominators is that outside of domination mode they will never last as long as it takes you to kill off the group. From a solo'ing standpoint they offer ok mitigation, but really just buy you a window to layer your st control and failing that, just delay the inevitable. Having played many blasters and doms, for solo I'd take the aoe damage of a blaster over the aoe controls of a dom.

They are very helpful in teams if you have others to kill them before the controls fail, or at least pick up the agro. But even then a bunch of them can't actually be used as a sufficient alpha and require someone else to initialize. For those aoe controls I'd much prefer the aoe damage of a blaster if you are stuck waiting for someone else to start the fight anyway.
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4) Pets. While they're a late blooming effect of control primaries, (for most sets), pets are a game changer, especially for gravity control. In addition to a big source of damage, pets come equipped with both active and implicit controls that must be respected.

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Pets are awesome. The only issue with them is they come late enough in the game where if you need them to survive yourself or do respectable damage you are pretty much in the same boat that old /psi was in with PSW.

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At low levels, yes, Dominators play an awful lot like blasters, but once you're in your 20s and 30s, the playstyles really begin to diverge. Where the blaster begins to leverage more and better AOE, the Dom stacks more and more options to turn the enemies into pinatas.

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Definitely, however a blasters AOE powers are up very fast. No matter how fast the team is moving a blaster will have their aoe's up. A dom's aoe controls (other than the aoe immob) leave much to be desired and leave a dominator unable to initiate combat, which means they are part of the second wave, but then they do almost entirely st damage.

What has always and continues to make doms good is how receptive they are to +rech, they benefit tremendously from it. None of the recent changes even put a tiny dent is how important +rech is to them.

Overall I think you did a good job describing the AT. I believe they are intended to fill a similar team role as blasters, but rather than aoe control through defeat they bring aoe control through control to the team.

When GR hits it will be interesting to see how popular doms remain. I think they will actually go down once you can fill the spot with blasters, who will work (and already do) exceedingly well with brutes because they allow the brute to use his inherent and together they produce astounding damage to the point that the lower survivability of said brute (relative to tankers) doesn't matter.

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depends on what got modded...the way these forums work, there's a cascading effect, kinda like w/ defense and romans in game

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I remember being told if the Mods delete one post, all the replies to that post are then deleted. I believe it was said to be a limitation of the software/website.

So there's a logical explanation but I doubt any of the tin foil hat uber high-end dom players will accept it and would rather hold on to this conspiracy.

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Past posts that I've made that have disappeared for no apparent reason have seemingly done so when I've quoted the post that causes the action, but I don't recall any posts where I've just replied to an actionable post. I've certainly replied to my share of those too.

It could have happened, but I generally watch my recently replies for a week or two to see if the convo goes anywhere.

If it is a limitation of the forum software then I know one work around is for the mod to just delete the content of a posting rather than the posting itself. (ie. post deleted by mod08), which I know he has done a fair amount, not sure why it would stop if it has.

Using bonfire for damage is like using caltrops/thorntrops for damage. In fact it is almost exactly like it except BF has a bigger area, way longer cast and needs constant attention with layering firecages so no one gets blown out of it.

But in terms of damage they are the same.

Now if bonefire did knockdown+afraid it would be a lot more like the bonfire's I've seen in my younger days at bush parties, assuming of course it also had the power to make all the mobs venturing near it drunk.

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Just wanted to be sure. I'm not going to try and change who you are, people have to want to change.

Regardless of your years of experience I'm willing to bet thousands of years of experience trumps it.

Interesting stuff, I like learning more about the regulars in this game.

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Well, seeing as you're going back to the "people have to want to change" well, I don't mind asking how many times did I have to explain to you that the Elusivity implementation differed from my openly published original suggestion? By my count it was three. It has nothing but the math I would expect a junior high school student to be able to do in two minutes as a homework assignment. So I think you are not a good judge of what is easy or hard.

And when you find the person with thousands of years of experience explaining things to the City of Heroes playerbase on these forums, tell him happy birthday for me and I'll be more than happy to defer to his collected wisdom. Until then mine still trumps yours, takes the trick, makes the contract, and completes the grand slam.

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If you mods are gonna do your job then do it the right with without favoratism.

No post deleted today was abusive or untoward. No post deleted to day violated the EULA. All posts deleted today were from Old Dominator players expressing their experiences with the changes. Politely, consicely.... not in an arguementative fashion. But we get "POOF!!! Your opinion and playing experience is invalid because WE decided it to be so." Ya know?I thought people were exaggerrating with the number of threads and posts deleted with the lvl pact DEVELOPER [censored] UP. I am now inclined to believe those people. No wonder mosrt canceled accounts even after being emailed a letter of apology and receiving 30 days gratis playtime.


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I wouldn't worry about Arcana, she's like the old dog that occasionally bites out of senility, but you still love it enough to never correct it. You kind of grimace when it comes around because it is rarely pleasant, but you remember the good times and try to look past what it has become.

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Just wanted to be sure. I'm not going to try and change who you are, people have to want to change.

Regardless of your years of experience I'm willing to bet thousands of years of experience trumps it.

Interesting stuff, I like learning more about the regulars in this game.

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Well, seeing as you're going back to the "people have to want to change" well, I don't mind asking how many times did I have to explain to you that the Elusivity implementation differed from my openly published original suggestion? By my count it was three. It has nothing but the math I would expect a junior high school student to be able to do in two minutes as a homework assignment. So I think you are not a good judge of what is easy or hard.

And when you find the person with thousands of years of experience explaining things to the City of Heroes playerbase on these forums, tell him happy birthday for me and I'll be more than happy to defer to his collected wisdom. Until then mine still trumps yours, takes the trick, makes the contract, and completes the grand slam.

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nah I was just PO'd about how crappy the pvp changes turned out and was lashing out at a visible person responsible for some of them. I understood your elusivity proposal as soon s it was posted. I've said much worse about Castle than you. I was also watching my engagement fall apart around me and was definitely bringing baggage into the forums.

It was a situation where I felt you knew nothing about pvp, but decided you knew more than everyone else and were listened to. I still think you know nothing about actual pvp and I still don't think elusivity as you proposed it would have worked in pvp even if they hadn't introduced DR on top of it.

I was also sort of holding your responsible for DR, it just seemed like something you'd come up with.

I look forward to the next "amateur hour" design session for the game and hope it is as successful.

meh, water under the bridge. If you want to talk about failure to understand things I recall a thread where you had no idea how to create a good short arc and figured you could just do w/e you did in a long arc. The number of plays you had at the time and your avg rating (no idea what it is now, don't care. this was months ago just like what you are bringing up) said otherwise. But you sunk your teeth in, I'll give you that.

They said the oldest profession is prostitution. It isn't, it is PR. You want to meet the thousand year old person? it is called society, stick your head in the sand all you like. Your experience is laughable, a mere speck of dust, but your ego seems to span the ages.

Just wanted to be sure. I'm not going to try and change who you are, people have to want to change.

Regardless of your years of experience I'm willing to bet thousands of years of experience trumps it.

Interesting stuff, I like learning more about the regulars in this game.

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This isn't directed at you BaB's, but you guys gotta get your house in order.

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It's pretty tempting to echo the "Did you guys know there's a chat bug?" Or the long-standing issue of channels not keeping their color settings during zoning, etc.

Hard not to get pretty jaded and cynical when we see a post like that.

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Yes, it is. But let's leave it as a mis-statement by ONE employee. I really don't know how the entire organization really did not know about this bug besides Austin.

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It was more the part about using ingame features to report bugs being ineffectual that made me raise an eyebrow.

I think it explains so much when you factor in how few people use the forums and the chances of said postings being missed.

It's not that they missed one bug, but rather the explanation of why numerous bugs have gone unnoticed.

My mouth was literally hanging open when I read that statement. It's not something you expect to hear from a 5 year success. It really makes me wonder how much of the success of this game was by chance rather than by design.

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LOL, I can't imagine no one bugged that STF bug.

Methinks BaBs may have been out of the loop on it.

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After a quick chat with Castle, no...it appears we weren't aware of this particular issue. He's chalking it up to some recent changes with AI and we're going to evaluate what might have changed and how it affects the task force.

I've done a bit of poking around on the forums and there appears to be conflicting reports on how much of an impact this is having. Some are saying it's now impossible, others have said that it's noticeable, but still manageable. Bottom line is, we're aware of it now and we're looking into whether or not anything needs to be changed.

For things like this, that have a very dramatic impact on game play, cause crashing, affect a lot of people, can be used as major exploits, etc...it'd be really helpful if you could bring those issues to the forums where they have a chance of being immediately and directly seen by us.

In game '/bug' reports go directly to QA in Austin, who shuffle through them, verify them, and add them into our bug tracking database before sending them our way where they get doled out to individuals to fix. That process can take a long time.

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This isn't directed at you BaB's, but you guys gotta get your house in order.

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Um.... did anyone really think this practice was going to be allowed to stay?

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Personally I knew it would end, but I didn't think they would nerf it into the ground like this.

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New around here?

Think of it as diminished returns and a fresh batch of suppression being added to pvp IO's. Everyone liked DR and suppression right? I mean those were like the two best changes they made to pvp, just look at all the peoople flocking to it.

I hate when there are only two possibilities
1/ they are trying to screw up pvp
2/ they have no clue what they are doing

Let's see:
99% of game changes involve nothing higher than elementary school math ---- check
Communicated to a group that ilicits predictable, consistent, and rudimentary social trends ---- check.

Yep way beyond what a competent PR person could handle.

Or, more like what one could handle while simultaneously typing up a public address for something that actually matters while talking to their wife on the bluetooth during their morning commute to the office.

You can't be seriously thinking this game is somehow overly complex or that the group of users are somehow incredibly unique. But maybe you do, CoX forums are srs bsns.

Please tell me your last post was actually an attempt at humor. If so kudos, it is funny, but you needed a smiley or smirk to make sure we know it is intended as humor.

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I was certainly off topic,

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Yes, you were.

I will just have to accept that I got you back on topic, at least temporarily!

I won't help you derail this thread more though.

TTFN

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And you continue with your derailment. It's ironic because you were actually effective with your original reprimand, but you couldn't let it be and you've now contributed to a continued off topic series of postings.

See I have NO problem being off topic. I've demonstrated that. However YOU came in and decided to be a wannabe forum moderator.You took the position of superiority and a holier than thou attitude. But have instead just been a hypocrite at every stage.

It's hilarious watching you continue to do it too. You are a classic example of "do what I say, not what I do"
aka hypocrite. You haven't been on topic YET wannabe forum moderator.

You phail. Post off topic again and be a hypocrite again.

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Not sure about others but lowbie doms are GREAT! I basically just save my domination for full endurance bar for more killing = less down time.


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Just to play devil's advocate; do we all believe the changes were intended to make domination primarily and endurance management power?

Looking at domination's effects being +mag/+duration on outgoing mez, +mez protection, and endurance refill I can't help but think that endurance refill is intended to be the tertiary effect in terms of purpose and usefulness. Basically, just to ensure that you have ample endurance to take advantage of the main purpose of domination - being more powerful.

From what I've read and experienced now, the end bar refill is the MAIN purpose of domination now. I'd honestly be surprised if it is he intended design for such a dynamic and powerful inherent to be nothing more than a supped up version of vigilance.

Don't get me wrong +mag and mez protection are still awesome, but I find myself primarily using domination as an endurance tool. I would imagine it was originally designed (and still carries this intention) that it is supposed to be a "power up" for tougher encounters, when you need more kapow!

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Well, during lowbie levels, we don't face that many bosses and even the lowbie bosses aren't that tough. I still use domination all the time because of the nonstop action, which means I am still getting the mez protection and better controls.

I am one of those that uses Domination as soon as it's up unless I am like right before the main boss fight and I may save it for one minute longer.

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No but we do face grossly underslotted control durations and a lack of damage to dispatch foes before controls imminently fail.

I would think that in low levels the extra duration that domination offers is practically vital. My old domes always used it for +dam and +duration (+mag is nice, but like you said, fewer bosses early on). My doms now seem compelled to use it for recovery.

That said, you - like I - are just one tiny data point. I wonder how most doms are using it now

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The thing that keeps me from running a "cold" or a "fire" is how much I HATE the way the buffs look. Giant blocks of ice on the whole team just looks stupid, I really wish it was more like Ice Man's little icey sheen that you surrounded you allies in. Then...I may give it a shot.

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I agree. Though it hasn't stopped me from running 3 high lvl cold corrs/defs now. The best looking buff from the set is frostworks, which is also the least useful buffs and quickly gets buried by the ice shield graphics.

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lol that last qoute is sig worthy i think i will lol, but anyway now your with us, with DR and the already nerfed damage AS took, your not really going to kill full hp solo targets, your forced to live like jackal and eat other ppl's work.

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Ya I'm certainly more convinced that stalkers aren't so hot any more... offensively at least. Which overall means they probably kind of suck. Still easy to play, but who cares if it sucks.

I had no idea DR was cutting off 60%, or more, of +damage buffs. which is appears to do for anything over 95% +dam.

Like if you have aim going and hit buildup it only gives you +36% damage instead of +100. Crazy.

It sounds like you have your mind made up about everything gravity. gl and enjoy the toon. I can promise grav plays like no other out there.

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Dear Frosticus:


Like it matters.

Let me put cool on cruise control for you:

IT'S GREAT THAT YOU CONTRIBUTED, BUT YOUR DISCUSSION WAS STILL OFF TOPIC.

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Thank you for policing the thread. You have not posted on topic yet. Just fyi.

Feel free to reprimand the 10 or so other people posting off topic too.

Keep up the good work.

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Frosticus:

I only responded because you adressed me directly.
Nothing you have posted since invalidates my note that your flares whining was off topic in this thread.

TTFN

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Like I said, feel free to chastise everyone else being off topic too. Otherwise you are just singling me out and further steering the thread off course through these subsequent postings... hmm

"I only responded because you adressed me directly."
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Isn't this off topic?

This thread is about psi assault.

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Funny how we rewrite the history of events in our own minds. I addressed you because you addressed me first and called out my contribution to the thread.

Of which you still haven't addressed the OP or the thread topic in general. I was certainly off topic, but actually got around to doing both. At this point you have thread jacked nearly as much as I did AND you haven't contributed anything.

But that's what happens when you try to be a forum moderator when it isn't your job.

Hopefully, TTYN

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You probably want a corr that can maximize rain of fire. It does 3x damage when is scourges and checks for scourge with each tick.

Fire/dark and Fire/storm jump out as the builds that can do it earliest and best. Fire/cold can do it as well, with snowstorm, but sleet is a loooong ways off.

If you are patient though I'd personally recommend fire/cold. If you are looking for more instant gratification - fire/dark. If you are somewhat patient, but still want results fairly early - fire/storm.

Fire/traps is a very good toon, just in a different way.

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I love my Fire/Cold but the wait till 35 was a looooooooong one. At 36 with slotted Sleet, it was a beast. A BEAST I SAY! And shockingly, its never been meaningfully nerfed. Still just as good today as it was 2 years ago.

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Ya my fire/cold stalled in the mid 20's for about 6 months. Then I picked it up and pushed to sleet and the good times started to roll. It ended up being my favorite corr and easily a top three build for me in the whole game.

/cold is one set I'd have no issue with a power reordering being done. Push arc fog down to lvl 16, but sleet in where it was. Move frostworks to 28 and benumb to 35.

As it stands I don't think I'll do another /cold corr without significant pl'ing.

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Communication is a powerful tool when used. Word selection is an actual art and a science. Given the polarization of responses the dev's elicit I think it would be asinine to suggest they couldn't use some help in that department.

Then again, I've made it clear that dev's shouldn't be posting, they should have community reps that specialize in doing that. There is a reason our CFO doesn't address the public. Speaking to the public is as much a skill as programming code or ensuring the financial viability of a company.

I don't feel right even bringing up such obvious things, but when you don't have the skills to address the public you end up with 748+369 pages of forum fallout, and a handful of outside sites picking up the story.

A specialized person making that address would have had us thanking them.

*Thankfully Sunstorm did actually explain the issue with dom's pvp damage, but then a bunch of people misunderstood the explanation and created more confusion. Clarity and communication, it's what's for dinner.

Silly conversation to even get involved with. Definitely a case of "old dog, new tricks".

Take care. I'm off to find a dom combo that I feel "buffed" on because my /fire isn't it.

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Actually I think it's the players who really need the "course" in communication. The last thing this world needs is more mouthpieces and useless "word selection."


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I don't see the majority changing when the minority could much more easily. By that logic doms probably would have remained unchanged because the majority were the ones whining for changes.

If we took the position that something needed to change do you think it would be more successful asking a by-in-large casual subscription base to learn new language (developers speak differently and when they make posts in dev speak it invariably leads to confusion)? or do you think it would be easier and more efficient for the 5 people doing it to just make a slight adjustment?

Someone should go back through the history of the forums and figure out how many times Arcanaville (and others) have immediately had to follow up a dev post stating the same thing with more reasonable language. I bet the number is very high for their actual information posts (ie not when one of them tries to be funny).

I find it interesting that they already employ my exact suggestion, but elect to get the service for free through the very helpful form goers. I don't know if that is particularly fair to those people, though they don't seem to be complaining, so w/e.

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DR. It eats into the damage bonus from IO sets and Build Up, as well as the actual enhancements slotted in your powers. In reality unless you pop a bunch of reds beforehand you probably won't be seeing more than 1000 damage with crit TF + AS.

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K was figuring it was DR and even said I had no idea how much it was taking off.

Anyone have the numbers for how much DR is hitting +dam? Is it the same across all the AT's?

Ok, I just found Arcana's DR calculator. If I'm using it right
95% dam enhance = 38% (So basically 3 dam turns into 1 dam IO)
195% dam (used earlier) = 79%

A blaster with slotting, aim+bu 257.5% = 99%

So why do lots of people build for +dam under the new rules?

Anyway, using these DR numbers I get:
bu>TF>placate>AS = 869 damage.

Wow I remember most people saying DR didn't hit +dam very much. It guts it ridiculously hard. To the point where hitting aim on top of build up only adds 20% damage.

Supermax and his SO builds are the way to go, other than proc's IO's add almost nothing.

That's a heck of a lot lower than I thought and it makes working in tandem with another stalker pretty key to kill any decent target. But it took two stalkers to do that in i12 too cause a decent player would rarely get AS'd or mezzed, so it took dual impale spam and crap like that. Now they just set up for the dual AS, but AS'ing is way easier albeit slower than a stalker duo could usually kill, but no harder.

Anyway, I'm so glad I've pretty much entirely stopped pvp'ing in this game. Just looking at how DR hits stuff has made me want to speedbag Castle's nuts all over again.

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Short of a fraps of it, I'll never believe you got 1400+ dmg in two shots on anybody with a stalker, specially if they have 40% res running.

You need to roll a stalker or just go get AS'd and TF'd by one to see how much lower the dmg is.

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I don't have my stalker anymore. I'm just using the in game numbers and applying 40% res to all the damage except the unresistable portion of AS.

I just used slotting 1.95+ bu .8+ IO's .2 = 2.95 buff.

Are the ingame numbers inaccurate? Honestly, it wouldn't be the first time.

I'm just seeing an expected numerical value based on the numbers, but then hearing a different experience from stalker players. There are people in this thread that I have no reason to doubt based on.. well years of talking to them. So I'm just asking where the discrepancy is arising from.

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Thunderstrike uses the exact SAME animation and does a lot less damage. Only 58% as much damage Yes that means TS is not a very good attack anymore for anyone wondering.

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Um, isn't Thunderstrike an AoE?

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IMO you pay a heck of a lot to get 18 splash damage. Isn't that about how much brawl does?

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So yes, playing a Stalker is harder than it used to be, and even when relative to other AT's. A Stalker requires full on teamwork to actually get kills now, just like any AT.


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This sounds like you are actually saying stalkers are harder than other AT's, is that accurate?

I just might have to roll one up and see this for myself. I'm skeptical they used to be playable by rolling your face around on the keyboard and you'd still walk out successful. If they are that much harder now I would imagine you'd see almost no stalkers and the forums would be full of the nerf outrage (beyond just normal i13 rage).

I mean stalkers have always died almost instantly when caught off guard and they've never gotten kills when not optimally attacking.

I dunno, couple dam/mez hami's in TF means you'll easily be setting up your own placate+AS as squshies generally don't have much in the way of stun duration reduction.

Sure AS was reduced, but it is still 140 resistible damage + 250 unresistible damage.

vs 40% res
Bu>TF>placate>AS = 1432 damage.

That stun isn't going to wear off until they are half way through the AS animation. That is a small window to choke down some greens.

Ime 1400 hp squishies aren't your avg squishy running around, but one of the fast ranged attacks will easily get you another 150 damage.

That's only a 20% IO and/or assault damage buff stalker. A single red says good night.

An elec stalker doesn't get the guaranteed stun (50%), but if/when it his they could do anywhere from 1498 to 1668 depending on how the TS crit goes.

edit: doh how hard is +dam hit by DR, I forgot that.

I know not everyone plays EM or Elec, but lets pretend they do. The numbers just aren't agreeing with the claims that they can't get solo kills anymore. But I've heard people say bu>AS>placate>TF, which leaves a massive window for them to counter/survive your onslaught.

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Don't forget +damage buffs do more for you now than they did before.

I subdued something for over 300 damage today with no debuffs.

Downside is I forget to control sometimes and then die horribly.

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True enough, but for clarity, they don't do anything more to PSW that before, it has the same base damage it always had.

Psyscream is a LOT better now though.

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You may not notice it but there are two subtleties to it all:

1) 1.5 to 0.83 is a world of difference.
2) Energy is mostly ranged attacks that do 10.5% less damage than melee attacks.

As for Total Focus, it's 3.3 second cast time! That is snipe slow!

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Last time I checked (which was today) havoc punch and bonesmasher are now identical damage for doms and both 1.5 sec just that /eng gets it at level 2 and /elec gets it at lvl 10.

Not sure why you are comparing charged brawl to bonesmasher other than that they open up at the same level.

Of these 4 attacks: bolts, charged brawl, blast, havoc the /eng pairings would be: bolts, powerpush, blast, bonesmasher

So the correct comparison is actually charged brawl to powerpush.

Powerpush does more damage, is ranged and has way better mitigation factor. 1.056 sec vs 1.32 sec is pretty insignificant. That ~0.3 seconds is easy offset by not having to ever move to use the power.

Yes total focus is 3.3 seconds. Which really makes me wonder have you ever played /elec? Thunderstrike uses the exact SAME animation and does a lot less damage. Only 58% as much damage Yes that means TS is not a very good attack anymore for anyone wondering.

10.5% less damage than what melee attacks?
powerpush does more damage than charged brawl
powerburst does the SAME damage as thunderstrike, recharges faster, faster cast, cost less end...hmm. You REALLy gotta love that 18 splash damage that TS does cause it is a really crappy attack now.