Frosticus

Benumb is very good for AV's, but on a build with no IO's it is pretty meh, very long rech, short duration. Still worth it, but... ya.

Frostworks is an ok buff depending on who you play with. Put in on a fire, elec, sr, or dark brute and they'll really like it. I put it in my cold builds early and then spec out of it, and then put it back in in the late 40's.

I think it is a very good buff when you first get it. No one has much in the way of +hp (accolades, IO's) and powers like dullpain are no where near perma. It loses its luster in the late 30's and 40's where everyone's' builds start to fill out.

I find it gains value again as a lvl 49 pick because it works so well with minimal slots (1 heal, 1rech). Very few squishies have more than 1,200 hp (cap at 1606) and fewer brutes still are running around at perma hp cap.
(brute with accolades+dullpain = approx 2400hp. They cap at 3200.

1 heal in FW makes it just shy of +600hp. 1 rech lets you have it almost perma on 3 people.

A few extra hundred hp in conjunction with the def shields and your active mitigation can pretty much eliminate the need for any other support.

Some people will say to pick up aidother instead of FW, that is fine if you don't mind wasting over 4 seconds during a fight and being locked into a powerpool. FW is a proactive buff that layers with your other buff/debuff resulting in very impressive mitigation. As a fire/cold I'm sure you can think of about seven hundred better things to do during a fight than cast aidother

So ya, I'd take both, but you should also think about getting some IO's. The build is good with just SO's, but with set recipes fire/cold is astounding.

[ QUOTE ]
Instead of this "Controllers vs Doms" thing, why not just invite both?

[/ QUOTE ]

And kick the aura rocking empath defender? please.

I'm curious why you don't use ring of fire. It is not a particularly endurance efficient attack, but it has very good dpa and in a discussion of AV's having an immob is very valuable as nothing kills dps like when they run around.

For dpa ring is just a shade lower than haymaker.

In the chain of Knockout Blow -> Haymaker -> Fire Blast -> Punch -> Haymaker -> Fire Blast
Sub it in for punch/boxing.
Thinking 5 piece decimation (including bu proc)+ 1 dam/end.

Should increase dps a bit, but would tax the end bar more too. Deci's boost max end tho, might help a bit.

Mostly I'm just thinking that when that bugger wants to start cruising on you if you are already just a smidgen over the threshold and actually denting it, then the drop in dps could really hurt.

[ QUOTE ]
I drew this particular comparison because the primaries are functionally the same.

It seemed that prior to the changes; Controllers had better control and a more consistent higher damage output from their primaries.

What I am trying to jive is what secondary type people are more enticed by.

Right now, I'm trying a Plant/ on both /Kin Troller and a /Fire Dom.

My Dom is great, her primary chain is well supplemented by her secondary chain and mobs are getting slaughtered even without fancy slotting. But the vibe is that solo is her strong point... teaming may require her to tone down her game plan and let others take on the bigger spawns (at least until Domination comes up)

My Troller is great; she gets well rewarded for locking things down and she does it well and I don't find myself stressing my survivability as much. I don't mind playing her solo but she seems geared to being a solid anchor for any team. I don't feel like I'm taking a backseat on teams when I play her.

With the new Dom damage mods, I'm liking them more than their Controllers brethren; especially solo... and only consider Trollers when using /Kin or /Rad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Controllers mature late, but are still by far the most powerful AT in the game.

Once you have fulcrum + app aoe blast you'll kill groups as fast as a plant/fire (depending on how creepers work now and if you slot roots, potentially much faster), be more durable, be more useful against AV's, and buff entire teams into the stratosphere.

The sad thing is that because dom assault sets follow a very late loaded design (akin to tankers, rather then defenders) they don't get all that powerful until late in the game too. They get powerful sooner, but end up far less powerful than trollers.

A plant/x/fire troller feels more like a fire wielder than a plant/fire to me because fireball is such a key power that just screams "fire!!!" to me. You also get to light yourself on fire, which unfortunately a dom can't do (major conceptual knock against fire/fire doms compared to fire/thermal/fire as they lack a fire ppp)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
... due to the fact that people are now doing Boss Farms, which require atleast some type of heal.

[/ QUOTE ]
True. Still, 54 boss farm teams are intricately minmaxed chimeras. It's a little misleading to single out just one head of the beast (hp buffing) without mentioning the seven other equally required pieces.

Also 54 boss farm teams give me pre-purple patch flashbacks. Remember in the not-so-good old days how debuffs were regarded as worthless because they scaled down to insignificance against deep purples? Yeah, it's kind of like that. Lolissue14darkmiasma = Lolissue1darkmiasma. Look for "all debuffs (and mezzes) underperforming all buffs (and heals) against the game's most rewarding content" to rear its ugly head again in the defender issues thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

This.

[ QUOTE ]
Honestly, any MMO with loot is going to end up having a few stupidly rare items. At least in CoX anyone, even casual players, can eventually get any item in the game. Play a 50 long enough and you will end up with enough inf to buy even the PvP 3% defense IO. It may take a long time, but it's possible. Compare that to many other MMOs where it's literally impossible for a non-hardcore player to ever get the top loot because doing so requires a lot of raiding for non-transferable items. Like in FFXI, where there is a boss that requires dozens of people on a 24 hour raid to defeat it. You can probably count the number of times it's been beaten on one hand. Or WoW's "grind raid dungeon A for months to get gear so you can grind dungeon B for months so you can get gear to grind dungeon C for months..." format. The worst I've seen was Earth and Beyond, where there were items that gave crafters a huge advantage by boosting item quality... and the items were hyper-rare random drops that had a drop rate of around one per year per server. Needless to say, they could not be bought at any price... the only one I ever heard of being sold went for a large chunk of real-world cash.

Compared to that nonsense, a billion inf for the game's rarest IO isn't that bad...

[/ QUOTE ]

CoX has never marketed itself with an uber raid mentality. The game has ALWAYS been focused on all levels of game player rather than lvl 50 end game content.

Just because other games choose to utilize that design is not really a logical reason for CoX to, especially given how the game was launched and has grown. Even if we agree that ultra rares (like beyond purple rare) is acceptable, it should never be the pvp class of rewards.

Every single thing in this game that is inherently un-casual friendly has pretty much fallen on its face. That isn't to say they shouldn't continue offering things for more hardcore players, but the pvp revamp was specifically designed to make it MORE friendly to casuals (ie anti hardcore initiative). Making PO's exceedingly difficult to attain is a move in the exact OPPOSITE direction.

No worries though, the dev's seem to have a harder time grasping that concept that anyone else.

I'm not even kidding when I say that if they actually want pvp rewards to entice players they need to practically rain down on them while pvp'ing. I'm not saying the current PO's need to fall from the sky (more attainable than now tho), but some sort of meaningful reward does.
-maybe that's normal IO recipes
-or more common set recipes
-or salvage dependent upon the origin of your opponent
-cashing in rep for merits, or recipe rolls

If I pve for a couple hours pretty much all my loot tables are full (enhances, recipes, salv) there is no reason that something similar shouldn't happen when I pvp provided I'm actively engaged (yes that means even earning rewards when you get killed because we want to encourage participation, not necessarily winning). A short cooldown period will take care of arena farms, but if someone wants to farm they will. Most loot farms have near zero risk, I'm not convinced a pvp farm is significantly different.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's not a brute, it's not a MM, but they want it to be. You'll never be able to correct even a tiny percentage of them. Not enough to prevent them from getting Castle's attention if it is even a small issue for them.

[/ QUOTE ]

It always makes me smile to see bitter, hateful people pat each other on the back for sticking it to the man.

[/ QUOTE ]

meh, I go out of my way to help a LOT of people in this game. Anyone that has ever sent me a PM, or asked questions on these boards will likely attest to that. I also help a LOT of people in game. If they ask how something works I show them how to drag things into the chat bar so it pulls up the detailed power info. That feature will take care of 99% of newb questions. I'm not interesting in helping n00bs. If they progress beyond being a casual player and need more complicated questions answered they will come to these boards. In game info is more than enough for a casual player, show them how to use it.

I know a girl that recently bought a new car, her first car in fact. She kept asking me question after question about some of the simplest things and I kept responding, "have you looked in the owner's manual?"

You can spoonfeed all the information you want to people, but if they aren't even willing to read the basic power description (I know some are awful) then what you are telling them either isn't going to stick, or you are just being an enabler.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not meaning optimal play preferences (which will vary in opinion), I mean...basics. This discussion came up in the I15 tests about the fact that people who are interested in the AT have no clue what the Inherant is. Every other Inherant is either so passive that you'll never really need to know what it is or so blatant that you have no way not knowing. Domination has to be consciously activated and there's nowhere in the game that tells people that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I disagree. If you had this concern in issue 15 beta then why didn't you voice it then when something "might" have been done about the scenario. Fact is that activating domination is no longer a necessity for extra damage and mitigation. Lowbie doms really don't have to worry about "domination" except as an end bar filler. Dominator's have essentially been dumbed down just like pvp was dumbed down. If you are running across players that can't play the AT in your opinion then just hope they are having fun and be glad the AT popularity might be boosted.( I srs want to barf right now).

On the other hand who are any of us to tell any player whether new or old how to play? If the players irritating you are having a fun time it is really poor form for you to be Mr?Ms KnowitAll with a playing lesson.

Reality check? Maybe they like how they are playing and having a fun time. Maybe they could give a rats [censored] if they are doing it " right" or "wrong".

Just a few thoughts.
No offense.

Who are any of us to tell any player how to play their dominator? In addition, doms now are a walk in the park compaired to dominator's at Cov's release.
Anyhow? Happy Hunting!

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Let people figure it out on their own. If they can't take a few sec to read the inherent description then all well. Not to mention if they miss the glowing button that starts out in the one of the first few power slots...

If doms haven't been dumbed down enough yet then they will all whine like before and Castle can further lower the AT by making domination automatically click, or do a pop up window the first time it is charged (actually the latter isn't a bad idea). But ya.

It's not a brute, it's not a MM, but they want it to be. You'll never be able to correct even a tiny percentage of them. Not enough to prevent them from getting Castle's attention if it is even a small issue for them.

No real surprises for me.

-Ice has always been an end pig, when they changed iceblast to be 1.67 they gutted the damage too.

-shout is the worst attack ever. Sonic for blasters has never been that amazing with the lower -res values. It does however, work very well with a fast blap set like /elec or /em.

-Blaze is awesome.

-Psi is a much better st set that most realize, it was not gutted when ported over from defs. Just overall the set is lacking for both AT's

-To be more accurate you should list elec twice in your final ratings. Once like you did and once w/ VS cast included. If people could agree on a fair use of VS you could just avg it. I wouldn't say avg it over 60 sec as that won't represent actual play as you are rarely attacking things non-stop for 60 seconds. But maybe it might be fair to avg (amortize more accurately) the full end cost and cast time over 30 seconds?

edit: meant as a qr.

We asked for pvp rewards and they gave them to us. Unfortunately we forgot to ask that a person has more than a chance in hell of ever getting one, but surely that is our fault

What most people are failing to realize is that PO availability on the market is far down the list of priorities compared to actually getting the odd drop while actively pvp'ing. Of course they are connected, but the latter is what the entire focus should be.

If there is no meaningful (tangible) chance of receiving a pvp reward while pvp'ing then the pvp reward doesn't exist for most users.

PvP IO's weren't put in the game to cater toward the ultra rich, the super hardcore pvp'er, or arena farmers, they were put in the game to reward pvp activity. They have failed at that since inception and these changes only serve to make the issue worse.

There are numerous ways to solve this issue, each one better than what the devs have chosen to go with, but this is coming from the studio that brought us i13 pvp changes. So really, what can you expect?

qr

Healing is pretty valuable if you are fighting all boss spawns, especially 54's. That isn't to say it is more valuable than other buff/debuff, but it tends to be the most tangible effect, so people gravitate toward it.

As for people talking about the "speed" others are going and judging them, well that's just ridiculous. Are lvl 54 boss spawns an exploit? Are they some of the hardest mobs in the game? Do they give rewards in proportion to the mob type? High risk, High reward. WAI.

Whatever brainless idiot sold Positron the idea of "reckless driving" that he so readily latched on to has done a lot of damage to the game. Every Joe and his dog now think they have the authority to determine player and developer intent and that they have been deputized to act upon it.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'll would be on the extermination side, if they allowed it.

[/ QUOTE ]


PVP in the PVE zones? Hero on Hero and Villain on Villain action? Count me in!

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd deal with the horrid lag just for the opportunity to play under close to i12 zone pvp rules again!

As it is, I'm glad it is only a weekend and not an entire week.

[ QUOTE ]
Oh lord not this again. Doms and Controllers don't play similarly at all. I'd draw a Dom and Blaster comparison (even before the AT revamp) over a Dom Controller one any day.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly.

Though interestingly enough Castle was the one with the goal of increasing dominator viability relative to controllers , but then he went and turned them into blapper 2.0's

Not to knock the set(s), but with all the grav/eng's leveling up right now I wonder how long before they hit the same wall that stalkers used to where everyone says they are useless cause all they can do in teams is single target stuff.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So basically this change to PvP IO drops will eliminate any chance my three friends and I have of getting them unless we basically take a 5 minute break from playing every time we kill each other?

That is idiotic.

Usually the 4 of us are the only ones in the zone PvPing in the first place.

I am guessing the Devs just want to kill what little PvP action is left in the game all together now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well the previous rules for pvp IO's weren't really rewarding people for actually pvp'ing either. If you wanted them you had to farm for them.



[/ QUOTE ]

Odd, my friends and I only play in PVP matches 2-3 hours a week ( a total of maybe 12 hours total over the past month) and I have seen personally 11 PVP recipes drop for my PVP character and my friends have all seen similar drops as well.



[/ QUOTE ]

I agree the changes are poor, but you are either underestimated the hours you put in, exceptionally lucky, or you guys die like flies when you play.

11 drops =~1100 kills/12hrs = 92 kills an hour = 1.5 kills per minute.

Most 4 person, 20 minute matches don't have 120 kills.

If you are actively pvp'ing and scoring kills that fast you are far outside the norm.

The old rate was far too low for actual pvp, the new rate generally works out to be lower still.

[ QUOTE ]
So basically this change to PvP IO drops will eliminate any chance my three friends and I have of getting them unless we basically take a 5 minute break from playing every time we kill each other?

That is idiotic.

Usually the 4 of us are the only ones in the zone PvPing in the first place.

I am guessing the Devs just want to kill what little PvP action is left in the game all together now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well the previous rules for pvp IO's weren't really rewarding people for actually pvp'ing either. If you wanted them you had to farm for them.

This change doesn't help anyone get them and I highly doubt any casual pvp would ever get more than one by just jumping in and pvp'ing for a half hour a night.

Without a drop rate increase PO's may as well not exist for the vast majority of users.

Hey pvp'ers asked for rewards and we technically got them. We made the mistake of not specifying we actually wanted a meaningful chance of receiving them.

PvP IO's were not WAI and needed to be hit with pvp diminished returns and pvp suppression.

Organized rep farms will now be the best way to get them and a casual zone or arena pvp'er actually engaging in pvp may never see one.

[ QUOTE ]
Being that both may be available options to the player, regardless of 'side'; how do you believe the new Dom will stack up against the Controller?

Which will be your preference when the opportunity arises?

[/ QUOTE ]

I imagine trollers will propagate much of the rogue isles just as they have over on the blue side.

I imagine blasters will as well.


I don't think doms really compete with trollers for team spots. I have rarely heard "looking for earth controller/dom", but I have heard "looking for rad, or lf kin".

Dom's are much more likely to vie for the spot against blasters.
I would say that "controlling" mobs has never been considered as much "fun" for teams as outright killing them. Dom's lead to safer xp, blasters lead to faster xp. Achieving enough safety for a team to progress through the game is trivial, so people will prefer the faster xp.

I'll take anyone that isn't an idiot be they dom, troller, blaster,or w/e. In the event I saw a broadcast of three toons lft, but if my team already had enough buff/debuff and/or a good agro sponge to survive everything then I'll take a troller for further buff/debuff or a blaster for damage over a dom.

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd appreciate you demonstrating you are doing more damage now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fire Blast does more damage now, doesn't it? Incinerate does more damage now, doesn't it? Blaze does more damage now, doesn't it? Your own table, DPA for Blast went from 99.62 to 141.69. Incinerate went from 110.19 to 130.47. And Blaze went from 248.18 to 250.19. That's DPA, not DPS, but you're talking about END COSTS. You're not saying damage went down, you're saying the End cost for the same amount of damage went up.

And damage was not SUPPOSED to go up relative to Domination, due to the base damage change. That was the result of the changes to recharge time. So whether I'm spending more End for it or not, I'm still doing at least the same damage as before.

I have way more burst damage, if I choose to take advantage of it. In fact, though, I don't, I have more than enough damage just because I essentially have Domination going all the time. I've even taken to waiting until attacks like Incinerate finish doing all their damage, since I know now it will actually kill them without needing to use a second attack. Usually just using Dominate to keep them still while they burn is enough to make sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree burst damage has gone up, that's good for 2-3 minions and then what? Burst st damage is verging on meaningless in pve. Burst aoe fits very well with the design of the game, but if you are st damage dealer you need much more sustained damage.

You still haven't demonstrated it though. In terms of actually playing this game; if I gave you a power with 300 dpa that recharged in 60 seconds would that be better or worse than a power with 30 dpa that recharges in 6 seconds?

I would like you to actually tell me your slotting and how you attack that is giving you noticeably higher damage (and I assume faster mission completes).

I agree that /fire has a smidge higher peak potential now, but the slotting requirements necessary to unlock that relative to old /fire are daunting.

I'd have much preferred that old /fire had just been left alone like ice and just got the modifier increase. The old workhorses - fireblast+blaze are better than the new workhorses - flares+fireblast.

Damage would be about as high as the new fire, but slotting requirements would be way lower.

If the dot of new fire gets fixed and flares gets unsuckified then I'll sing I different tune.

Thank you for the dev interpretation. Handy as always.


In another thread Moonlighter said:
[ QUOTE ]
Things that really should be banned (temporarily):
~ If your response makes assumptions on what the devs are thinking instead of the changes they implemented you need a break.
~ If your response is more about the devs and less about the change you need a break.
~ If your response is driven by self righteous indignation you need a break.
~ If your response word smiths or twists the devs words when my 8 year old nephew understands exactly what they mean you need a break.
~ If you waste time actually fabricating a fictional exchange in the Paragon office then you *really* need a break.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you want to talk about failure to understand things I recall a thread where you had no idea how to create a good short arc and figured you could just do w/e you did in a long arc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Memory like a steel sieve. The question was specifically whether writing a short arc used a completely different set of skills than writing a long arc. My position then and now is that while short arcs and long arcs prioritize different things sometimes, there exists no skill that you can use in a short arc that you cannot use to similar effect in a long arc, which means the total skill set you can bring to bear on a long arc is a superset of the one you can use to author a short arc. Which is just another way of saying short arcs don't use any unique skills.

That's not a debatable opinion. Its logically impossible to be false, since its always possible to write a long arc that is an anthological sum of multiple short arcs. I can always take the product of any short arc writer and include it in a longer arc. This should be another one of those trivially simple concepts to understand, given that all it requires is a fundamental understanding of what a "superset" is.


This is why your particular judgements aren't especially troubling to me. The effort it would take to be sufficiently wrong to be in agreement with you is never going to be worth the cost of being that wrong. Its just an unavoidable writeoff.

[/ QUOTE ]

sure, that's what it was about.

I said it took different skills to write a GOOD short arc compared to a GOOD long arc. You said you technically could apply the same things to both kinds. No one disagreed with you, even when you keep repeating it over and over again I never disagreed with you. I just said your had no idea what I was talking about, still don't (obviously) and thinking that way would make your arcs suck. And they probably do.

Correction: I just played through 9172. I stand by what I said.

End of that discussion.

Oh and you didn't have to tell me three times about elusivity being affected by DR, you told me once and then I started asking why you didn't follow through and make sure it was implemented how you wanted it. Big difference. I mean you brag about how close you are with the devs all the time I figured you'd ensure something you came up with for an area of the game you have no idea about would be done right.. Or not, considering it was easier to basically remove it the following issue.

I've noticed you lash out more and more lately. Is it because you have become an antiquated relic around here? You used to have a special niche before anyone could just pull up city of data and/or in-game numbers and calculate anything. Now that you've been relegated to a dev interpreter more and more of your posts have nothing to do with helping people, but rather, verbally berating them.

I feel bad for you because I believe it was really important to you.

qr

I like KO blow, it's cheesy sure, but it is a fairly unique animation (can't think of any other powers that use it, but there might be some). When at times it feels like every second melee power is using the haymaker animation (it isn't really that common, but always pops up on sets I play) KO blow is a nice breath of fresh air.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can't say that no one knows about the bug, just that I personally hadn't heard about it and Castle hadn't heard about it either. It may be sitting in programmer land right now or our QA department might be verifying it. *shrugs*

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe you should find out? I'm sure you're very busy, but "I dunno" is a pretty lame answer.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it were Castle's or Back Alley Brawler's job to fix it, then I agree that it should be high priority for them. However, it isn't. The folks who do QA and writing for the missions are not required to check in with the Powers folks (Castle and team) or the Animation folks (BAB and his assistants, if he has any) before they work on fixing a bugged mission.

Ask the right people, and you might get a more satisfactory answer.


[/ QUOTE ]

I would agree with this if BaB's hadn't spoken up about the specific issue from a position of authority.

An email internally to the right people to find out if it is actually known would be far better than replying with "meh"

I like BaBs quite a bit, but his first post in this thread asked for more information on the issue. That is effectively saying "how can I help you?"

His second post was questionable at best and seemed to undermine an established process. The confusion that has resulted was predictable and expected because it practically read: "don't bother with that department, send it right to me if you want the job done right"

His third post tried to correct what he'd already set in motion. But sort of like a famous Lighthouse post, once it is out of the bag it is pretty hard to put back in.

His newest "meh" post is what it is. He is trying to shrug off responsibility to help out, but he has already said "how can I help you?"

All well, I posted my thoughts on things just like this in another thread and got a response from Castle. It may be entirely unproductive, but at least it is entertaining.

[ QUOTE ]
range def, then recov and recharge

[/ QUOTE ]

I order these in the exact opposite direction, but yes these are the main things to focus on.

[ QUOTE ]

Both are used, when appropriate. Given that only those with moderator or admin permissions are able to see what has been removed, it is rather non productive to speculate on this matter as you cannot view the material which caused the issue. If you are interested in discussing this point, please pm me rather than post about this matter on the open forums as this is a violation of the Message Forum Rules and Guidelines. -Mod08

[/ QUOTE ]

I see everything.

thx man!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do a /search and see that none of them are teamed. Big surprise. Ask them if they want to team and get laughed at. I actually had one Stalker tell me that my Thermal Corr would just slow him down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll agree, one of the Red-Side's most foolish problems is the TOTAL and OBVIOUS lack of even SIMPLE TEAMING. I mean, it's REALLY quite annoying sometimes. This is why the mere "second" a bunch of Heroes decide to form up even a half decent team, Villains get completely squashed...and then REPEATEDLY get squashed over and over and over again until it finally gets through their thick skulls that their ONLY chance is to form a team....that or until the Heroes get bored of base camping a bunch of idiots and log


Unfortunately, this is sorta how CoV has "nurtured" it's players...with "solo" oriented minds. CoV AT's are, in many ways, ALOT more solo friendly than CoH AT's, and this encourages villain players who enter PvP zones to choose the "solo" route there as well, and rely ONLY upon themselves...unfortunately, they miss out on the true power of a solid team.


But, it's definately something that doesn't "have" to be this way, villains just need to get smarter in general...

[/ QUOTE ]

Total agreement. I'll just add that i13 only compounded the "solo" mentality for most players by eliminating buffing, elimnating mez effects, and by giving everyone higher effective hp through free res and/or free debuff protection.

Just like in pve where some crappy defender complained they couldn't solo and changes were made the same treatment was done to pvp.

Pvp used to be entirely focused on teaming, now it is just a mess. Ya teaming is still better than solo, but not for the reasons it should be.

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure why you automatically assume a post deletion conspiracy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am?

I'm assuming that if it is a known limitation of the software then the mods have typically circumvented it by deleting the contents of actionable posts rather than wiping their existence completely.

If it is an unknown limitation of the forum software then they now know and should go back to the practice of deleting the contents of a post so as to not inadvertently destroy valid postings.

I'm more inclined to believe that it is faster to hit "delete post" than it is for a mod to open it up and hand edit it, or better yet hand edit out specific content of the post like mod08 used to do.

If an explanation falls under the path of least resistance it will almost always be the reason.

I was actually just kidding around with my comment about rewriting history...it seemed like an appropriate comment in light of the discussion.

Both are used, when appropriate. Given that only those with moderator or admin permissions are able to see what has been removed, it is rather non productive to speculate on this matter as you cannot view the material which caused the issue. If you are interested in discussing this point, please pm me rather than post about this matter on the open forums as this is a violation of the Message Forum Rules and Guidelines. -Mod08