Frosticus

Have you seen any whine threads about Darth Ronin lately?

Turns out the easiest way to fix the ragdoll glitch was just to remove the repel aspect from TK while pvp'ing.

-Grant "Temporary_Powers.Temporary_Powers.KillTk" (-) If on a PvP map [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]

Cottage rule my [censored], oh wait pvp doesn't count.

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Either power can allow a team member to take probably another hit or two before dropping. Aid Other, however, can be spammed multiple times within the same fight to mitigate additional incoming damage. But, if you are spamming Aid Other just to keep the team alive, then there is probably something wrong with the team's strategy or toon builds that is making the fight difficult; Frostwork won't necessarily improve survivability for such a team either, unless it had some /WP brutes in it.

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except you don't have to spam it at all to be more numerically useful than Frostworks, only 2 to 3 times within 190 seconds, which is basically in between fights which makes the cast time and interrupt time irrelevant anyway or the need for either power.

No one is going to take a burst hit above their base hp with Cold's Def shields in normal missions anyway unless they are deliberately trying to get themselves killed. For STF and RSF the only person getting hit like that is the tanker or brute and they will HP capped or already close to it by that point anyway. What very little benefit it brings is negated by common IOs, armor powersets, and accolades at the only place it's even remotely needed, at the end game.

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I can keep FW on 4 people easily. It takes at least 3 uses of aidother to match the mitigation that FW offers.
3x4=12 uses of aidother in 190 seconds (as you say)
12x4.1=49.2 seconds
26% of my IN COMBAT time spent spamming aidother

no thx. I barely spend that much time healing on my thermal on bad teams. Molly Medic is not a good role for /cold.

It is quite possibly one of the worst ways to play a fire/cold. That much time spent focusing on healing people would be an ok fire/thermal I guess.

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It was not balanced. ET was hella broken, get over it.

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It wasn't before, but now it is.

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As the only attack in the game that could actually kill the user who's to say what is and what isn't correct for it.

The only other power I can think of that hurts the user is oppressive gloom, which is a ridiculously powerful aura that costs next to no endurance.

At any rate, I'll I can say is that I deleted my two EM toons after ET was gutted. Both of them were sets that required the ability to quickly change gears from attacking to defense (EM/fire brute, EM/regen stalker) by clicking self heals.

It was one thing to joust with TF, but it is another thing to joust with TF AND ET

I can state with absolute certainty that getting locked out of other powers/insp for 2.9 and 3.56 seconds can be a death sentence for some armor sets. And no, just because you would have died but healed doesn't NOT mean you would still die a few seconds later. Not on a set like fire armor where it survives by overwhelming offense and your hp yo yo's the whole time (I do have a 50 fire/ss so I know how tough fire is for tanks).

Anyway, the changes sucked all the "fun" out of EM for me. I won't touch it. You can get similar st performance out of other sets without sacrificing aoe output or having to wait until super late game to feel powerful.

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WP was always ridiculouly overpowered in terms of regen for PVP.

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Sho 'nuff. The long standing saying in pvp has always been... can't bet willgin...oh wait.

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CoX has never marketed itself with an uber raid mentality. The game has ALWAYS been focused on all levels of game player rather than lvl 50 end game content.

Just because other games choose to utilize that design is not really a logical reason for CoX to, especially given how the game was launched and has grown. Even if we agree that ultra rares (like beyond purple rare) is acceptable, it should never be the pvp class of rewards.

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A person without ultra, uber rare items in CoX isn't restricted from any actual game content. Unlike WoW, where you need raid gear from a lower level raid just to survive a higher level raid, CoX is balanced around SOs. Unlike FFXI, there are no content practically restricted to the uber guilds, requiring a huge application just to get in (after a "trial" period). CoX is far, far removed from hardcore MMOs.

This really isn't about casual-friendly anymore. It's about people always wanting what they don't have, the "credit card" mentality. People can still be casual and experience everything in the game. Person A having better gear doesn't negatively impact Person B, other than the latter's inherent jealousy. That's a human flaw, rather than game design flaw.

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You're right CoX is far far removed from hardcore MMO's

When this game has x million users I might agree it needs or at least could use some clear cut ways to segregate users. For now, with just over 100k or so it really doesn't need anything that drives people apart.

I'm not sure if you were disagreeing or agreeing with what I said.

I will agree that the condition is a human flaw, but once it is diagnosed and then deliberately introduced into the game design it becomes a design flaw.

Anyway, I've yet to see any convincing reason from Dev's or players that indicates pvp IO's should be exceedingly difficult to acquire through pvp activity. The market will take care of itself it you take care of the root issue.

qr

For recharge and +dam you get about 40% of whatever you have enhanced it by. That seems to be a good number to go by for most rough estimates.

So for the ill toon listed earlier he said he has 190% rech in pve, in pvp he would have about 75% in pvp. That fits well with his estimation of 80%.

In other words, DR doesn't just cut you off at the knees, it cuts you off just under your ribs

Just like how reactive heals are easier/better in a high def, high mitigation situation so is higher base hp. I showed you how that 400 hp we added to a corruptor acts more like ~600hp once you add the defense.

That extra hp can be stretched very far once you factor in your active mitigation.

It's why the principle of layered mitigation works so well, it isn't just a linear gain.

if cold had a heal other power I'd recommend it, but cold doesn't and cold itself isn't a high def set so once you rip off sleet, rof, and fireball you need to be prepared to have aidother interrupted. A lot. Otherwise 6 slotted to maximize heal and interrupt reduction. Compared to a 1-2 slotted FW that you use before fights. I'll put those extra slots into fireball thx.

Like I said before maybe an ice/cold is different, I could see how many people would build it for st damage only. It is a lot easier to move around the battle field and play medic when you don't have massive hate generation and cessation of your attacks barely slows the team down. Not so much for fire/cold.

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I wanted to see how much difference the animation time change to confuse made. So I put a level 52 Positron in an AE mission, used the MK III Power Analyzer, and started stacking confuse. The mag hovered in the high 60s, low 70s. Anyhow what boggled me is that the instant I attacked, even with him clearly confused, he would attack back (and kill me very quickly). Is this a new thing? Is it AE related? Any thoughts?

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Positron may be confused about a lot of things in this game, but he knows a villain when he sees one

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lol wierd, on my screen it says it was posted in like 2007

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07/12/09

month/day/year

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Shocking. In my experience they'd ask "which do I want" or "what do these do". I've even had them take the power and simply not turn it on when we were together.

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You mean kids around you listen when you speak from a position of authority? That's unpossible.

I thought free-range child rearing was all the rage...

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They should put a counter on your playing screen that you can opt to activate that will tell you how many players are in a pvp zone, this would allow players to know when they can go do some pvp instead of making one sweep of RV and then going to do something else.

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It was suggested years ago that some sort of display board showing the numbers of each faction (including ones in hide) for each zone would be a tremendous boon.

Some sort of warning message when the numbers get lopsided such as "Heroes are being overrun in Siren's Call and the forces of Arachnos are about to infiltrate Steel canyon. Help us NOW!"

Tied into:
an actual zone event where some arachnos DO appear in steel canyon if the message goes unheeded. (event would also spawn some destructable objects and the arachnos would basically go mayhem mission style on Steel Canyon)

Add in some things where responding during a "warning period" grants extra rewards and you would entice more people to pvp in one day than everything Castle has ever done in this game.

Or just make pvp a completely different game and then wonder why no one wants to do it... /e baffle.

But that's half the fun when you have people in charge and listening to people that have absolutely no idea how to attempt balance, let alone integrate it in a meaningful way into the game.

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How is Burn with Footstomp? Does the kd actually help and allows you to use Burn as a combo?

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Burn works quite well with footstomp, be sure to have blazing aura as well.

Burn+footstomp will usually kill things before it can stand back up. Burn+footstomp+fireball kills tougher things.

Blazing aura makes sure that anything that does survive and starts to flee turns around almost immediately.

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I am going with the Earth Mastery set because I have found on my other Fire tanks that Quicksand tends to lock the mobs in place long enough for Burn to run to full effect (or nearly so) which makes it better for burning Lts and Bosses.

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Sounds good. I just kill everything with rage+FE boosted fire attacks.

I like fireball cause it hits 16 targets, has long range and is fast, so it is like a good version of taunt .

I'd have a hard time giving up the 1-2 punch of footstomp + fireball, but ymmv.

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How is Burn with Footstomp? Does the kd actually help and allows you to use Burn as a combo?

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Burn works quite well with footstomp, be sure to have blazing aura as well.

Burn+footstomp will usually kill things before it can stand back up. Burn+footstomp+fireball kills tougher things.

Blazing aura makes sure that anything that does survive and starts to flee turns around almost immediately.

buff for fulcrum is 45 seconds long, debuff is 30 seconds.
buff for siphon is 30 seconds long, debuff is 30 seconds

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Well I guess I may have to use Frostwork myself and see how I like it.

Still, I would very much like to see a top of the line IO build!

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Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Level 50 Corruptor Fire/Cold

I've built this toon quite a few ways from pvp dueler, high recharge aoe damage dealer w/ little team support powers, AV soloer, and I finally settled on this build for a mix of extreme damage, great team buffing (I make most allies over twice as strong before adding in my active mitigation debuffs/damage), and very high personal survivability.

No idea how I would even fit medicine into the build and if I did, where I would find the 4-5 extra slots it requires.

If I had that kind of build flexibility I'd take Firebreath so I could do:
sleet>aim>rainoffire>fireball>firebrea th>blaze(boss)>fireball ---move to next spawn.

But I don't really like firebreath and it doesn't mesh with the ranged aoe damage I do as standing for that long at short range opens you up to enemy aoe's/cones which I'm not that strong against.

edit: I consider pvp IO's basically non-existent in this game, so didn't include any.

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Frosticus isn't taking into account HP caps which is the primary reason Frostworks sucks. Consider that 1 Heal SO in frostworks HP caps half the ATs in the game (6 out of 12) and only for a +HP of 401.59 or 589.00 and this value can not be reapplied like a heal ever. Aid Other on the other hand, heals for 450.1 and can be reapplied every 9.06 seconds. Also Aid Other doesn't have it's effectiveness reduced by +HP buffs from IOs, Accolades, and powers on the target, which are overly common.

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I am taking into account Hit Point caps when I say Frostworks is an amazing buff. Additional Hit Points let's people take more hits in a fight. Taking more hits allows you to have more of a chance to eat that green inspiration, execute that key power, finish off that enemy, or do the other amazing thing you need.

I prefer Frostworks over any heal because Frostworks is preemptive. You use it before combat starts. A heal means you have to stop what you are doing and push something else. Frostworks is already working and you can shoot the bad guys or do other things without having to push a heal button.

Frostworks is one of those subtle powers that is hard to notice how game changing it is on a player. There aren't any green nor orange #s. Nothing goes flying anywhere. It doesn't say missed nor avoided. But people just live longer.

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A reactive heal is superior to it both numerically and in function especially since the rest of Cold set is based around -Recharge and +Def.

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I've tried an aidother build when I had my fire/cold spec'd for pvp with aid self. It fricken sucked for me. If I wanted to play combat nurse with debuffs I'd be on my thermal or roll a pain.

Cold is a proactive buffing set and a reactive debuffing set. Substituting in aidother is going to come at the cost of either dealing damage or debuffing.

Considering how great cold is at debuffing, I'll just say no thx.
Considering how great fire is at damage, I'll just say no thx.

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Flashfire lasting more than what, twenty seconds is a waste. By that point, the group is a pile of ash and I'm moving onto the next one.

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Why would you use flashfire on 4 minions? I keed, I keed.

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Frosticus isn't taking into account HP caps which is the primary reason Frostworks sucks. Consider that 1 Heal SO in frostworks HP caps half the ATs in the game (6 out of 12) and only for a +HP of 401.59 or 589.00 and this value can not be reapplied like a heal ever.

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Actually I did take hp caps into account, that is the shiny 1606 used for the corr and 3212 for the brute. That's exactly why I said it does so well with only 1 heal slot and 1 recharge. I'm not saying it is as good as this power, but speed boost requires no slots to be awesome. I personally think it is a good thing when you have some powers that don't need to be 5-6 slotted to do well. YMMV.

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Aid Other on the other hand, heals for 450.1 and can be reapplied every 9.06 seconds. Also Aid Other doesn't have it's effectiveness reduced by +HP buffs from IOs, Accolades, and powers on the target, which are overly common.

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Don't forget the 4.1 second interuptable cast time . Actually heals are reduced in effectiveness when +hp is added, but it is subjective rather than objective. A FW's /shield brute is at about 2540hp, so a 5-6 slotted aidother will only move their hp bar about 1/6th. On the other hand if you hadn't buffed him FW that same brute would gain 1/4 of their hp back. The higher the hp the less effective your weak heal feels. I know this after playing years of stormies with o2 boost. It feels effective on low hp toons, but is like a drop in the sea on high hp toons.

If a high hp toon gets to the point they require heavy healing aidother fails anyway. It is only sufficient for light healing duties.
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Also don't let anyone BS you on that +HP significantly increases regeneration. The ATs that cap out at 1 Heal SO FW only get a 36.7% base regen increase which is only 1.639 hp/sec which is less than unslotted health (40%). Brutes only get a 53.3% base regen increase out of it which is equal to 1 heal SO Health. Assuming you hit Aid Other ever time it recharges you would get a 49.68 hp/sec increase, 22.505 hp/sec if you do it every 20 seconds instead of 9 seconds. You would have to wait 190 seconds between Aid Others for it to be less hp/sec than 3 Heal SO slotted Frostworks on a brute which is 2.38 hp/sec.



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You have to fully slot aidother for it not to suck, and even then it still sucks Thx but no thanks, I have 23 other powers that I'd rather put slots into than aid other, especially on a fire/cold.

I'm surprised you continue to hang onto he notion that everyone is running around with their +hp accolades, often have +hp buffs that bring them up to hp cap and a heap of +hp IO's. Reality (well in-game reality) does not match this. At all.
- Probably less than 2% of players have the unbreakable badge, and thus no Born in Battle (5%hp)
-You need all the mayhem's (so 45+ unless you leech off of a friend) to get Invader badge (5%hp)
-You need to be 30+ (or again leech), work off 1.2 million debt, and farm the crap out of rare marcone bosses to get HPT (10%)

I can guarantee you the number of people running around with meaningful +hp from accolades and IO's is insignificant. The number of people running around with them and perma dullpain probably doesn't even register.

Anyway, the comment, had you read it, was that +hp increases regen and that when combined with the layered defense makes the large survivability boost even larger. I won't go into specifics because I have no idea how fast the person plays or what enemies they are facing to determine the rate of incoming damage.

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It's not just bad, it's a buff that is significantly worse than general heals bad.

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I've yet to say FW is better defensively than healing, but in an overall package it is definitely better than aidother. Maybe an ice/cold has the time and lack of things to do where they can afford to be hovering over their teammates. A fire/cold does not and the mass agro you should be generating means you need looking after more than anyone else. If you are being left alone to cast aidother without being interrupted numerous times you are probably not playing a fire/cold very aggressively (but that is up to the player) or well (but that is subjective)

To OP:
Anyway, you've got more than enough info to go try the power and see if you like it yourself.

Better yet I'd get a cold to cast it on you and then go play and see how much tougher it makes you feel.

The biggest difference? FW will eliminate timid players. Aidother turns you into a wannabe empathy

gl/hf.

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I don't think it's underperforming for anyone, some people just don't like playing straight Defense sets. It's not Supposed to be for everyone. All three ATs that get SR can get Dark Melee. All 3 can IO for soft capped Def. All 3 get Elude. You don't need Parry to get good results out of SR.

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It's not that it underperforms on any specific AT. It's that it underperforms:

1) Without IOs
2) At lower levels

Playing a low level SR was one of the most frustrating things I've ever done. It was basically like playing a Brute with no secondary, but still using up endurance anyway. Every enemy was still capable of reducing me to negative defense, and I had no RES, regen, or HP to fall back on. I just simply died to everything. Eventually, somewhere around 35+, SR starts to do better, and can eventually soft-cap fairly easily with IOs, However, the ride and the non-IO path isn't very fun.

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I agree with your "number 2", but "number 1" I disagree with. I have an MA/SR who doesn't have anything beyond basic IOs slotted in his powers and he doesn't underperform. 33ish% Defense isn't exactly bad defenses. There's too much emphasis on minimizing your chances to be hit that any numbers that don't reach that point are seen as underperforming.

Of course, that's not to say I'm not going to eventually soft-cap him, because I plan to, but he doesn't underperform at all.

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I found my fire/sr scrapper was lame until I got SOs. Then it was just blazing through missions. IO's just make it go kablooey with powerfulness.

I think SR is fine, it's just that since IO's people have internally raised their baseline of performance. An IO'd SR is worlds apart from a SO'd version, but a SO'd version makes a fine scrapper (haven't played it on a brute or stalker, so I can't speak to them).

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I consider Frostworks one of the best buffs in the game because it is unique. I slot +HP on virtually every build I use. The results are amazing and incredibly beneficial. Every little bit helps a significant amount.

Applying this buff to other players can drastically help them, regardless of archetype.

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This is accurate. Very few toons you will run into won't benefit. Some will benefit tremendously. For such a low slot requirement power and the ease of use it gives pretty solid returns.

Remember, support players aren't that common redside. You have the ability to make that a non-issue in most scenarios.

I wouldn't go around skipping others to buff my willpower stalker friend, but I've yet to see a brute that wasn't stronger to unbelievably stronger with FW on them.

I've gotten it at lvl 16 on the three cold corrs I've leveled now and it has tremendous value at that stage of the game. I usually drop it for more offense in the mid 30's, but it always finds a way back into my final build.

Good power, nice looking too.

*like anything though you can play without it and still do well usually.

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I would like to get a better idea, but mostly I am interested in what IO sets you would recommend, or what I types of bonuses I should try to achieve.

Also, is combat jumping with an IO for knockback protection sufficient, or will it be worth it to add some hold protection via acrobatics? I seem to be stunned much more then held, so I don't know.

Thanks!

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Cold is very receptive to +recharge. That tends to be the main focus of every cold I've played. More recharge takes care of survivability (sleet+benumb+infrig up more often) and takes care of recovery (HL up more often).

After +rech, I start boosting +ranged def. Your fire/cold will get heaps of agro, once you start to surpass 20% ranged def you will go from impressive to amazing. Pass 30% and wow, pass 40% and you'll feel unstoppable.

After that I go for +hp, just like your friends, more hp dramatically increases your survivability when layered with def and heaps of -recharge debuffing.

Sets I'd use that aren't for the uber rich: thunderstrikes in ranged damage. Each full set give 3.75 ranged def. The two cheap pieces of Blessing of Zephr in travel powers for 3.13% ranged def each.

If you did two of each of those sets + base arc fog you are at 17.5% ranged def. Well worth the investment.

+recharge bonuses tend to be more expensive. The cheap ones will require possible build comprimises like taking the snipe.

As for kb protection I'd just find the cheapest one you can whether it is karma, steadfast, or blessing of zephr. One is all you really need.

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Frosticus: It seems like these other posts don't agree with your options of Frostwork.

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Try it and see if you like it. The principle of layered defense isn't just powerful it is very powerful.

Look at it this way. If your corr friend has 1,200 hp (respectable end game build (that's ~+15% hp). If you put your shields and arc fog (21.4% def) on him he can now take:
1713 pts of incoming damage before dying
Put 1 slotted FW and he can now take:
2292 pts of incoming damage before dying

We only buffed him by ~400hp, but he is effectively 580hp stronger. That's 1.34x more survivable (and that ignores any natural regen, which makes the number even bigger).

Shield brutes are fotm right now lets look at what a single slotted FW does for them:
Avg shield build for brutes has approx
28% def (positional)
16% res to all (but psy)
125% max hp (true grit+a few IO bonuses, no accolades until very late game)
He could take 3298 pts of damage (ignoring regen) before dying.

Obviously our def shields are going to make the largest difference. We'll even assume we stand near them for arc fog, but really that isn't how a fire/cold plays best, but w/e.

w/ shield+arc fog he could take: 4023 pts of damage
w/ shield+arc fog + 1slot FW: 5464 pts of damage or approx 1.34x stronger.

Just for clarity the def shields are base 11.3% def, slotted they are 17.6%. That makes a toon 1.35x stronger than base. Funny how that worked hey?

I don't know about you, but I don't want to cast aid other 3 times during a fight (12.3 seconds) when I could just hit him with a 1.32 second buff before the fight starts.

Now imagine if you put it on TWO brutes... when you gonna find time to fire off rain of fire, sleet, fireball, blaze etc if you are spending so much of the fight casting POS aid other?

*remember +hp boosts the effect of regen, so the difference is actually even larger than I said.

If your target is like MOST players you run into he'll have practically NO +hp in his build at which point FW is massive.

If you were to fully slot FW some brutes would be made over 1.5x as survivable from just using your shields+fog




You may like aidother better, that is your playstyle choice. Aidother is a POS though, make no mistake, it takes 4.1 seconds of IN COMBAT time to use, has virtually no range and is interuptable. On of the best things about fire/cold is that you can unleash astounding far ranged aoe damage. If you want to stand right up by the brutes, that is fine, your choice.

Comparing aidother and FW is pretty ridiculous, you don't even use them the same way. You may as well just take the aoe taunt and taunt off whoever is beating on your friend.

My fire/cold is geared toward offense. I apply my team buffs before the fight and then do some of the highest damage in the game. If I wanted to sacrifice the latter I wouldn't be playing a fire/cold

Just remember, most corruptors like to attack and most MM's suck, so you WILL be using aidother plenty if you go that route. Be sure you like it

Me I prefer to do what /cold does well outside of battle and then do what fire/cold does extremely well inside of battle. Others don't. I'd much rather watch the enemies hp bars while playing my fire/cold than my teammates. Could just be me though.

Yes, It was reduced to 10%, basically yanked.
Yes, many attributes do not display correctly. it is part of the fun
Yes, starts when hold expires, all mez is on same supression except kb, maybe confuse cant' recall this moment
Diminished returns increased the "fun" by lowering whatever effort you put in your build. It's fun. IO's help, but are also reduced heavily. Procs are good.
The old pvp faq is no longer applicable to anything.

if and when it comes to buffing/fixing crappy powers as long as it remains a POWER I'm satisfied it meets the cottage rule

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I'm curious why you don't use ring of fire. It is not a particularly endurance efficient attack, but it has very good dpa and in a discussion of AV's having an immob is very valuable as nothing kills dps like when they run around.

For dpa ring is just a shade lower than haymaker.

In the chain of Knockout Blow -> Haymaker -> Fire Blast -> Punch -> Haymaker -> Fire Blast
Sub it in for punch/boxing.
Thinking 5 piece decimation (including bu proc)+ 1 dam/end.

Should increase dps a bit, but would tax the end bar more too. Deci's boost max end tho, might help a bit.

Mostly I'm just thinking that when that bugger wants to start cruising on you if you are already just a smidgen over the threshold and actually denting it, then the drop in dps could really hurt.

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Well, unless Mids' is wrong, Ring of Fire doesn't actually have good DPA (damage per Arcanatime). It has five ticks of 9.79 damage each. According to the formula we worked out earlier, that's an average of 9.79 * 4 * (1-0.8^5) = 26.33 damage. It takes (roundup(1.17/0.132)+1)*0.132 = 1.32 seconds. That's a DPA of only 19.94, which is less than HALF of Haymaker, and below Punch, Jab, and pretty much any other alternative.

Now, if all five ticks hit, it would do 48.95 damage, which would be 37.08 DPA, which would indeed be competitive. But that's why I was asking how the fire DoTs worked earlier in the thread. Is Ring of Fire an exception to the rule? If so, yes, it would be a better attack.

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As mentioned ring is guaranteed dot.
it's dpa is 37.05, which like I said is a bit below haymaker (42.5), but way above boxing/punch (25.6/30.69).
It's also fire damage.

Av's run on me all the time when they start to die on my fire/ss even when I DON'T use burn. Must be the taunt aura difference. But in the case of fire, dark, stone, and maybe ice they likely wouldn't be running their taunt aura in a solo situation vs an AV.

Anywho, it was just a thought as you were asking about max damage chains. I like ring on my fire/ss (i also get FE benefiting too), but invinc is a different beast.


FYI
Fire attacks with cancel on miss:
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>Ranged Melee PBAOE
Blast scorch FSC
Ball FS
Blaze BoF
B Bolt Cremate
GFS

</pre><hr />

Guaranteed dot
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre> Ranged Melee PBAOE
Flares Incin Combustion
Fbreath Consume
Rain Hot feet
Ring Burn
Char B aura
Cages

</pre><hr />

Other:
nuke, iirc it has like a 99% chance of fire dot, but then it also procs chances for extra damage (like other nukes) at like 75%, 50%