Frosticus
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Posts
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Joined
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I switched the epic choice up to mace. A few things happen.
-Solid s/l def (24%)
-Less aoe damage due to loosing dark obli and the damage buff of soul drain
-Got another dam proc for Incinerate
-considerably more Single Target damage with the addition of Poison Ray.
-Spider is fully slotted for damage and I imagine it does more damage than the seer (I've only ever actually used the Mu pet in game), so I gave it credit for 40dps (before tohit chance). If he just used claw pierce and venom bolt each time they are up he'd pull ~44 dps, so I think 40 is a safe number to use.
-Like the last build it should run more or less indefinitely. Basically you would run out of end every ~72 seconds, but domination pops every 69 sec.
383 dps
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Code:I'm searching, but there are no other combos that even approach this kind of damage from what I can see. Basically a fire/fire dom does really good damage, like good enough to compete with other top contenders. Then you add in imps and an epic pet and it isn't close anymore. Then you add in some forcemulitplication like poison ray and things just get crazy.| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1414;695;1390;HEX;| |78DAA594594F135114C7EF74B1B49D32146CD904A42D5DA8B4F44D40450298A054C| |18A1A35928A139C58A74D6734E2936F1AE39326E2125FD4E80730A8D1AFA1C64FE0| |B34BDC977A965B90F8E8A4FDFF7AFFF7DC73CECDBDD3FCF90955888BA342D1C64B4| |5CB9A9F289F31CCA25DAEBAF3C5456341788410DDABE6FC78D9B4ABE552669751D5| |EB839EB5E931CB2A9E2DD930AD5797EAA3E094794AAFEAA69DA9FF5067CA94C3367| |5CBF2D1A050D1F593EC4FEBC58A612E066930659E332CE3845132ECA5CEC98AB190| |59AB962F2EE820960DC5DAA0CF147CA34E219F9A4BBC7408D12562AF18AF0989378| |4D42420273E39FE0A5F062444F426E316E336217687F019C2150E772B69CAE04830| |9284DE14A39F903D2D105F60E094459C8FC972AD309E10BA9F127A9F116210EB96E| |1EE594AB4613FA340E83EC09823C421DCA3704F9E21B21A861923848E6D844DDB19| |17A8C8571878E54EBC399AF1F1FE7DBCFF66DE7F98F7DFC1FB4F402DBF6CCDBF875| |6A9D38C3CA1712F631FF70BB727C0AD894092EA7E83098D3338B434594DEBE08135| |415EA3040F2A6835EF56B07803CCB4F08CB365990A6CBCC6B841085F277C070DC9A| |D857E90D5FF93F18BF19B305063E0D9E44404B2B77276472BB7D2B60E610868979B| |690F516301B03AB992E8644BF3E0ED62AB8BAD7EC8DFC396B3E71DD5DCFC9EF181F| |1911085A511B934E2250BFBED935BE9E3E389F3F1C4F978E27C3C09793CF7A8D34B| |5030290B26EF93957AC07848C83E225C86B8B4BC3969EE758B8FE1670408032A21A| |B11DEC21F4646B699E1555720D1A02C38384A9DE77632C6183BF8EEB956DF36F8C0| |23A6FF71665CABAF9850C889600CB7F95FCF73B59EC73BEB835F051031877208878| |7518EA01C45EF18CA71947994DA0BB5DEA9B6151B1A4219461941B98A411E7C37FC| |282A4A00A51145436942694109A374A0DC45A9FD016B3307BD| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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Quote:Do you run a non-stop chain of cbrawl, havoc, blaze, and shocking grasp? (I'm not calling you out, just wondering if I missed something when looking at the blaster build).Originally Posted by Dr_English
My fire/elec blaster doesn't have to use power sink every 30 seconds. Not even every minute or two unless I'm nuking/power surging.
The dom does look like a fun and effective build though.
I realize the typical fire/elec is actually pretty end friendly, but looking at a chain of the highest DPA attacks needed to get near that 300 mark it wouldn't be very end friendly at all. -
If I were a claws brute I'd take electric fences.
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It's a really fun, relatively rare combo. In the end it is one of the most powerful corr combos you can make in terms of survivability and offense.
It takes a bit to mature (nothing like /cold though, but nowhere near as fast as /rad or /dark), but not because it doesn't have good powers fairly early, but rather because they need a decent amount of recharge slotting.
Synergy - drop PT followed by rain of fire+fireball, jump back and use firebreath (if you like) = dead spawn. Firebreath is a really good aoe, but I still go back on forth on whether I like it.
Building for ranged def is a good choice, but for me it was secondary to s/l def. So I went scorp for the shield and the aoe immob (makes rain of fire better vs high cons cause they get out of PGT/trops too quickly for my tastes). I'm usually up very close dropping PGT and acid mortar (I find it works much better snug to the spawn than set far back) so people take melee swings at me.
There is no reason later in your build to avoid capping s/l and ranged if you like. If you really like you should be able to push your psy def pretty high too if you like fighting mind control enemies.
Things to avoid: malta gunslingers, fortunate mistress bosses, raluruu, and w/e you come across that has insanely high tohit bonuses. Also, auto hit -def debuffs like quicksand, but I personally haven't had much issue with def debuffs that require hitting. -
Hey, I know this has been tossed around before and the general consensus is a fire/elec blaster due to such extreme DPA attacks, but I offer a challenger that blows that guy out of the water.
fire/fire/soul dom
after factoring in a 95% hit rate and subtracting out the time spent casting FE, Seer, Domination, Soul Drain, and hasten it produces and astounding:
334 dps*
*I haven't used the seer, but figured she was good for 30 dps, (before hitchance) with the slotting I gave her*
*I used soul drain vs 3 targets for my calcs, it would probably be safe to assume 5? doesn't make that much of a difference though*
Here's the build. You just chain fireblast>incinerate>blaze>repeat. It should never run out of endurance.
It also does pretty extreme aoe damage too and being perma dom has pretty decent survivability if you choose to use it. It can stack mag 84 in holds too so...ya.
It ain't cheap heh. If anyone wants to give me the billions upon billions needed I'll make this toon and post vids
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Code:Once you subtract out the 5% miss rate and the time spent casting aim, bu, and using powersink every ~30 seconds to fuel a fire/elec blaster it doesn't come close to 300 dps (though the burst damage is mind boggling).| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1413;696;1392;HEX;| |78DAA594594F135114C7EF74B1B4B494525B36A1D296AE52695C010D12C0046D15A| |CA8516353718293D429E90C467CF203F8A098884B8C281FC1B844BF861A3F828F2E| |715FEA596E41E2A393F6FF9B7BEEB967E99969FED2985B882BC342F18E964B86511| |CAB5CD0F49259A9DAF3A5596D46388410DDABC6E2684537AB957266BF5655EB8BD0| |DAF6886194E6CB266CABD585FACA37A19F57ABAA6E66EA37EEC90AC53075D5305CB| |428CCA9EA39B6E7D4D29CA6CFFA6831A15FD40CEDAC56D6CC85CEF1396D26B396AD| |50992F17F325C384646D506712BE11AB9057CD265E5A84E812D1578CD784F81B427| |21C90159F2C7FB92F01E222728B719B718710BD4BF80CEE8A7457D214C112672408| |3D49468AF005D42ADDAD8F049A6C8F194F08DD4F093DCF0851F0B54B77FB1445D87| |0845120741F654C1362E0EEA06A6A76C700991A061943848E3D844D7B199729C957| |58383989DD99A51D1737EEE2C65BB8F12037DEC18DC72157A32CADF1209D72E7187| |942D321C661AE171E1B0F97263C35B8C437B07B3980C59BA64A9AD7C101477C7C44| |F11D53D0D47240C1DC0DB0E3E71DAB7F89E26F5C64DC24046F10BE83066467811F6| |44AFD64FC62FC26F4D518389AAC0843F4568E6E69E552DAD621080EEDB297F60015| |E601532767129D6CF23AF0A96253179B52103FC4266BE81DE5DCFC9EF181F191108| |1A3617934EC2413D6DB2B5BE9E5E9C4783A319E4E8CA71397D359A64AAF41C2846C| |2591A21A9219461FE13A38A4E514D3DB28D396ED8C1D8C9DFCD3EC22BC85BF868C7| |4CF3C24D3D6FB8C65C603427685B008D1FBE588FB8779671F63849F40DBEACB061F| |7C2A72FF58266DAB6F9850C812461FEEEABFAEE7EE7A1CE7940BEE0A20621AE5382| |E4FA09C443985B6D32867508A28B517EE7AA5DEDD58D000CA20CA10CA557472E01B| |D288E246F1A034A178519A51FC2841940E947B28B53F522E0CC4| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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Looks accurate enough prior to sticking procs in the chains.
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Quote:You need to clarify what you are trying to do here.Originally Posted by DarkInvado
Oh I slotted one Damage Proc into Efence. Would dropping say a Dam/End/Rech and slotting in a second Damage Proc make a substantial difference - enough to offset the fact I would be slotting in a Purple damage proc and its associated costs?
what attack chain are you planning on using?
if shriek>scream>shriek>efence then your purple damage proc will go in shriek.
Slot efence like an attack.
ie.
ranged def
3 piece thunder
acc/dam, dam/end, acc/dam/end, deva dam/end, trap hunter proc
do w/e you like with the 6th slot. I recommend a pvp IO dam proc if you can. -
Quote:Be that as it may.Originally Posted by Garent
The mez resistance cap was -massively- increased with the issue 13 pvp changes. It's now impossible to reach the cap under normal circumstances.
AM grants = 36.63% duration
Add Acro = 31.11% duration
On a pvp map
AM grants = 44% duration
Add Acro = 36.7% duration
You aren't taking Acro in addition to AM for the hold resistance, but rather the hold protection so your toggles don't drop as easily. And maybe for the kb protection if you don't want to use IO's in pve and to help you get in excess of 35kb protection in pvp.
You are right that AM no longer hits the applicaple mez resistance cap, but for powers you can come by yourself it is all you need as you would be very hard pressed to tell the difference between AM and AM+acro in game when it comes to mez durations. -
I bind Rage to V, same as I bind buildup/aim. It is easy to hit there.
As an SR with PB on auto it's not like you have a lot of armor set management where pushing rage everytime it is up is really difficult to do...
Personally I'd be more interested in being able to bind a click mez and hasten both as autos, but ymmv. -
Quote:Assuming you had the insane recharge necessary to repeat this chain, which would be even more difficult on a storm:Originally Posted by Diellan_
Garent and I did a lot of work on this when he was trying (and succeeding) to solo AVs with his Storm/Sonic Defender a year or two ago. This was before the discovery of ArcanaTime so they're a bit suspect, but the basic gist of it was that, with a perma-Hasten build, the strongest attack chain was Screech > Shout > Scream > Shriek, mostly because your stacked -Res debuffs would hit 5 applications and with momentary spikes of 6. -120% Res is nothing to sneeze at.
+240% in screech
It would produce: (95% dam buff, only sonic's -res)
no proc / with apoc in scream
57 dps / 63.6 dps (first chain)
85.7 dps / 95.95 dps (second chain, peak -res)
That doesn't even come close to the 118 dps that both
Shriek>Scream>Shriek>Efence
and
Shriek>Scream>Shriek>Shout
produce.
Both of them do it with a heck of a lot less necessary recharge too. Not to be rude, but a chain of screech>shout>scream>shriek is one of the lowest damage ones I've personally ran the numbers on.
*What you guys were experiencing (I'm guessing based on my own storm/sonic) is that attaining high -res with LS and nado is actually more important than a high dps sonic chain. That is a whole different case that presents itself for storms damage powers because that is more akin to forcemultiplying outside damage sources than a high sonic dps chain.
However, since the nerf to LS it is no longer the primary source of damage in an AV encounter (assuming you specced LS to be awesome back then), so I'm confident once again that the sonic chain producing high dps is the main concern even for a storm/sonic now.
Edit: for the table you produced it is also missing the fact that scream self buffs 8 of its 10 ticks giving it a much more attractive DPA. Most people overlook it when talking about sonic, but it really does make quite a difference. -
Quote:And yet the chain Silverado listed produces identical dps to shriek>scream>shriek>shout except offers more range, it less subject to dps loss due to missing, reaches peak dps sooner and inflicts a valuable status effect. Also it doesn't root/lock you out of your powerset for 2.904 seconds on a single power meaning if you need to heal/move/whatever, you can.Originally Posted by Garent
Electric fence is equivalent to a tier 1 blast in terms of damage and recharge, except with a longer animation time, higher endurance cost, and its damage is dealt over time. That means power bolt is better than electric fence. In fact, it barely has a higher DPA than shriek and doesn't have a resistance debuff. Shout is clearly better.
You are wrong on this. Debuff duration over cast time gives no indication of how powers in the sonic set change relative to the amount of recharge you have. Debuff duration over cycle time tells you exactly how many times a powers -res will stack in a chain and how useful it will be at layering -res for you.Quote:I used debuff duration over animation time. Cycle time at higher levels only affects how often a power can be used in an attack chain, not how useful it is in the chain.
Sonic at 0, 100, and 200% recharge is different in each case, but your way would never indicate that. -
Quote:I don't recall any pve changes to the fury mechanic, but then again brutes aren't that interesting of a class to me so I could have missed it.Originally Posted by Clouded
Back in the day, Fury mechanic worked differently. IIRC, Ice Melee was the real culprit that was preventing efficient Fury generation. Ice Armor certainly didn't help when paired with Ice Melee.
Now that Fury doesn't degrade quite so fast, I expect Ice Armor and possibly Ice Melee to be proliferated eventually. -
Discussed? it isn't intended to boost them. PBU is useful in conjunction with benumb to cap it at -90% debuff, but whether that is useful enough to you is dependent upon how you play.
The epics don't do much for a cold/arch, but I'd still go power on a cold def though just for FON. Saturate HL before it crashes and you'll recovery end right through the crash.
Or dark for souldrain, but I'd go power personally. I'd even consider a staminaless build that uses HL, Conserve Power, and FON if you have high recharge of course. -
+1/8 on my fire/traps. Once I finish the build it should easily do +2, maybe even +3 depending on enemy type.
Was doing 0/5 on my fire/cold last night and it was a bit hairy at times if mezzers are present. If no mezzers then sleet+rainoffire+fireball just ruins spawns.
I haven't tried out my ice/rad, I don't play that toon anymore, but I'd imagine it would be similar to the fire/cold. Stray mezzes ruin rad. -
Quote:This.Originally Posted by Mirage_Mage
While not as good as HE by any stretch of the imagination, if you keep telsa cage (slotted for end mod) on someone all the time it will put a big hurt on recovery, then of course you could also use short circuit. It feels like the actual end drain from transference has been hit a fair bit by DR, still workable though. Wouldnt bother about the buffs myself as things stand.
If you dont care what side youre playing on, go corr.
Telsa slotted for end mod is -3.23 end/sec
HE is -4.58 end/sec
You keep telsa on someone (it only lasts 8 seconds) and keep hitting them with transference and you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that doesn't have end issues. Not anyone that would be able to take that, but still have trouble with HE at any rate.
It's the plan I have for my elec/kin. Adding soul for Powerboost and it should drain people a lot faster than /therm, though /kin is a lot more challenging to play.
OP: you still want leaping, acro for hold resistance and the kb protection. Speedboost is still a useful +recovery buff because everyone plays a /therm now...so it can help.
Slot soulstorm as an attack and use it in place of the heavy hitter elec lacks. A bit unconventional, but don't be afraid of taking and using fulcrum shift. Don't worry about actually hitting with it or being close. It is auto 40% dam buff from 60ft away. So it's like running around with perma aim +dam going. -
I for one wish they'd change all knock down powers to be knockback, or at the very least, change all the ones that were originally kb and were lowered back into kb.
KB is superior to KD in every way and if you can't do higher damage with KB and be safer then you need to lrn2ply.
Is that about the jist of what you guys are saying? -
Quote:Either lowering or raising the magnitude of knock a power possesses is not changing the "SECONDARY EFFECT" of the power. It is merely adjusting the magnitude of the existing secondary effect.Originally Posted by Clouded
Which not the same as changing the SECONDARY EFFECT of the power, is it?
Changing it from knock to stun would constitute a secondary effect change. -
I think you should slot Efence for damage and get a proc or two in it and use it in your damage chain of shriek>scream>shriek>efence.
But that might just be me
regarding acro: AM should be capping your mez resistance, but I'd have to actually check to be sure. Really easy to confirm with combat attributes though. Acro is still of value as it will prevent toggle drop from one hold. When RI and EF drop that is bad news, but also bad is that when mezzed all non-IO defense is suppressed making you more or less a sitting duck. Sorry, I'd forgotten about the minor hold protection as I've mostly been playing toons with mez protection lately.
For calculating damage this is a great program:
http://www.snakebytes.net-a.googlepages.com/test2.html
but for sonic I just do it manually to ensure I line up all the -res durations accurately. I used to have pretty much every sonic chain/combination possible in excel, but I purged it all for one reason or another. I have a bunch of it back though so it is usually just a minor adjustment of subbing in your specific damage bonuses and procs into what I already have. -
Quote:Na, I don't mean that it was given as a reason to mislead, just that it was BSOriginally Posted by Wavicle
a quibble:
It wasn't exactly BS. The Devs and many testers did in fact think that slows were a problem for fury generation.
They were Wrong, but that doesn't mean that it was intentionally misleading, which seemed to be what you were suggesting.
There was and is a valid reason preventing ice armor. Though the hibernate "exploit" is a lot less of an issue since nophase was introduced. -
Quote:nah I'm reading it, but the only people that care enough to analyze at this level are probably playing the game beyond SO's...Originally Posted by PHlRE
If you did look at the type of Attack Chains, it IS stated whether its pure Single Target or Howl integrated for Team Debuff. I feel you breezed through w/o actually reading it.
Debuff per second is not the metric you want to use. You want debuff duration per cycle time, that will indicate how well the power can layer the -res. Which of course brings us full circle to needing to dig a lot deeper than is being done. Recharge affects sonic heavily.Quote:Garent is providing very good discussion and different pov here, which is needed.
Because of that, probably the true objective is uncovered - "Debuff" per second should be the priority over Damage per second. Though DPS itself presents a flat and general average benchmark, itself is misleading in true application. Yet again, number crunching/calculations doesnt fully translate through actual gameplay.
Your "loadups" won't kill a +1 Lut so I'm not sure what the purpose of them is really. It is valid to build little burst chains designed to create kill speed efficiency through minimal overkill or slivering, but that again is a whole level or two higher than is being discussed.Quote:Maybe, the calculated averaged DPS might hold itself true through an hour's worth of play. Most likely it wont. It will hold itself true vs an EB, AV, or GM on a seamless attack string. Other than that, attacks will always be broken, interrupted by either you being attacked back, or you using support powers, or the mob itself defeated.
The best application is through experience, pick the attack string suitable for the situation and mob. My attack chains are designed to load up w/ one big burst attack at the end , to maximize the debuff per second on one powerful strike, so take that into consideration when applying it.
I think you are missing your target audience as already stated. You are discussing a min/max property and trying to make it accessible to a casual audience. There is no reason for that.Quote:Referring to another question, i want all gathered information based off of an SO slotted Sonic Attack Defender. The reason behind this is to have all the information tangible to the average player. Its no fun coming across all this stuff but not able to do it right off the bat or spending a fortune to do something..... all whats needed is Hasten and a recharge enhancement or two in your power.....
Additionally from what I've seen you guys aren't using accurate numbers. Arcanaville put a lot of work into discovering Arcanatime. It makes a large difference in calculations. I've seen several different people perpetuating the inaccurate info in this thread. I'm not picking on Freem for implementing 0.5 sec gaps between each attack, but the system allows for attack queing so it is entirely unnecessary. -
Quote:I'm clocking you in at 89 dps cold up to 121 dps once you have layed all your -res (3rd chain).Originally Posted by DarkInvado
And here is a full build:
edit: with EF+achilies in RI 110.5 to 143.3 (3rd chain)
Once you subtract time spent casting things like AM, LR, hasten, and the occasional heal (say every 20 seconds) your peak will be closer to 114.6 dps.
That will give you about a 5 min defeat on most AV's if everything goes smoothly.
You are looking at a long time to kill a GM, as they have 88.36 hp/sec regen even after LR.
edit: forgot to factor in EF+achiles, so I corrected a few numbers. -
I'd ask, what you have EMpulse, acrobatics, and shout for? Or if you are going with shout then what you have Efence for?
You could lose acro and shout for Superspeed (2 slots blessing of zephr), howl (for teams).
I'm guessing you have EMpulse for the basilisk?
Just so we can clear everything up here. A chain of:
shriek>scream>shriek>shout>repeat w/ apoc proc in shriek and 95% dam buffing
80.5 dps on chain 1
105 dps on chain 2
112.7 dps on chain 3
The chain takes 6.99 seconds to execute
requires +144% rech in shout
Shriek>scream>shriek>efence>repeat w/ apoc proc in shriek and trap proc in efence plus 95% dam buffing
86 dps on chain 1
112 dps on chain 2
112 dps on chain 3
The chain takes 5.406 seconds to execute
requires +62% rech in shriek
has more range and inflicts immobilize on target
Is less prone to dps drops in the event of a miss
Unenhanced the pure sonic chain uses 3.93 eps
Unenhanced the chain w/ efence uses 4.69 eps
Worth noting is that the efence chain requires much less recharge in its most costly attack so can be reduced much more effectively for about the same end cost in the end.
Personally, I prefer the chain that heats up faster, is less affected by missing, and makes the enemy fight on my terms, but ymmv.
Additionally a chain that can do shriek>scream>shriek>dominate w/ apoc in shriek and unbreakable in dominate
=119 dps
You can increase all these chains with more +dam, or more -res from the primary, but bare in mind that these are seamless chains so when you take time to cast something else you not only spend time doing 0 damage, but you also risk breaking the flow of your -res stacking. That said decent sonic chains on something like a rad/son usually end up close to 160 dps (before accounting for lost dps due to non attack power castings).
*I have/ accounted for the 95% hit rate. -
A few important considerations if this thread is to go forward.
1. You should probably start accounting for Arcanatime. It makes a difference for normal sets, and a pretty big difference for sonic.
2. Scream self buffs 8 of its 10 ticks making scream a very good attack.
3. State the intention, burst, dps, solo, team
4. Clarify the build level and possibly why. As mentioned a lot changes with sonic when you look at procs and the specific purpose of the attacks. It's probably the most dynamic blast set available. -
Quote:Gotcha, I guess that is the crux of the matter, you really only need 24+ dps to kill an AV with a rad and getting the necessary survival for most of them isn't very challenging either.Originally Posted by Garent
The advice I'm offering is based off of my friend's rad/sonic, who can solo AVs. He uses the power epic pool.
So accomplishing the task isn't that difficult, but that isn't to say that there aren't varying degrees of how well you perform within the task.
Some people are happy to be able to complete a 5k run, some people are happy to place in the top 10, and other people still are only happy if they win it. -
Is this thread specifically restricted to only sonic attacks and/or SO's. I ask because a lot can and will change with IO's, in particular procs.
It also looks like it is only regarding "burst" chains rather than dps chains? that's fine, you just don't find many things that die in 4-5 hits in late game.