Frosticus
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Posts
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Waterspout I'm assuming is a clone of Tornado (haven't actually used it on my dom, so not 100% sure). That being the case it is a very small aoe and you would DEFINITELY need firecages to prevent it knocking the mobs from Kansas to Oz.
If you are the type that jumps in after flashfire has nullified the whole group then soul is a great choice. If you sometimes jump in before everything is locked down then the defense shield is better imo. -
I'd probably do something like this myself: Yes your single target attack chain is a bit fragmented, but unless this toon is being built to AV/pylon hunt then you will generally be too busy spamming AOE powers and just using blaze>fireblast to mop up the few survivors.
Endurance is of course the hurdle that fire/dark faces. But with softcapped def and another 45% + tohit debuff always on the enemy you are free to use the rain of inspirations that the aoe's generate to make blues as needed.
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Quote:I usually jump ahead to the next spawn while the last few are being mopped up on my fire/traps. Target seekers into the middle of them and in I go. I usually don't have any issue getting the traps I want out (acid, poison).Originally Posted by Zmoosh
IMO
Do anything but traps, especially running with two brutes. To keep fury high the brutes need to run from mob to mob attacking and being attacked as much as possible.
Brutes love buffs, especially end recovery. I have yet to see any brute not love pairing with a kin.
I have a 50 fire/traps corr I'm in the process of striping. He's being stripped because no team wants to wait every mob to let you put down @4 traps and then pull the mobs to them.
The fact that traps has an alpha absorbing power that is second only to Phantom Army (and may be better in some ways due to the much faster recharge) is something that needs to be used and abused. Pulling mobs into traps is IMO the wrong way to play the set.
That said, for the OP, keeping up with two fire/shield brutes will be a challenge. And if you ask them to stand around and pull into your setup then you are asking them to play in a manner that will cause them to have fury generation issues.
And if you do keep up with them or even ahead of them then seekers and poison trap are very anti-fury. Seekers steals the alpha from them and PT is like a controller/dom using their aoe hold on every single spawn.
The more I think about it, you guys will be a very uncomplimentary combo.
It will work of course, but it won't be as synergistic as say a rad or kin, both of which can add recovery and recharge, which shields loves. Rad makes them safe so they don't need to uber stress on def IO'ing. And kin, well brutes with fulcrum are just unbelievable. But don't think it will be all about them overshadowing you, kin corrs are among the highest damage blast toons in the game and /rad corrs are downright awesome too. -
If you use LBE every 10 seconds it works out to be 4% -res. If you use LBE every 10 seconds it means you are using a 1.85 second attack that does paltry damage. I really don't see it adding in the long run.
Even with the apoc proc in LBE it is still going to have considerably worse DPA than any of the fire attacks. It is about 20 DPA worse than a non-proc'd scorch with just 95% damage enhancement. It will only get worse with more +dam cause the proc is carrying it so much in that figure.
Same thing goes for FSC, as a single target attack its DPA isn't as good as the other fire attacks. So again spamming it every 10 seconds (aside from being an huge end sink) for a 4% increase in total damage isn't going to net you anything other than less damage and an empty blue bar.
Melt armor, which is a pretty weak power for scrappers, is a much better choice than what you are considering for boosting damage. -
Looked awesome to me, heck I immediately jumped into mids and toyed around with dark armor tanks and brutes.
People that are hating on you probably told others that dark sucks and the crow doesn't taste very good.
I'm sure if you were a dark/ss or some attack set with mitigation they would just claim it was the knockdown at work.
Way to make an underplayed (and under appreciated) set shine, by showing the complete build potential. -
For me it amounts to this:
(with a good head of fury)
stone fist > slash
stone mallet > hack
heavy mallet ~ headsplitter
That leaves seismic smash vs disembowel, which is more like double disembowel with a mag 4 hold.
Stone animates faster and has no redraw. So for me because I've never found scrapper crits to be very good (hello massive overkill on a minion) I greatly prefer brutes in a comparison of the "heavy hitting" sets. When it comes to identical sets between the AT's I give the nod to scrappers.
A large part of it is that brutes still have access to a couple sets with inflated damage scale attacks (KO blow, Seismic, ET, TF). When it comes to IO'ing a build these really make a difference imo.
Where people see the inconsistency of a brute's damage I see a mechanic I can control to create consistent performance. I can't control scrapper crits and as a result have always found them to be the inconsistent performers (granted they range from really good to amazing).
Remembering the old BI index just to highlight it, KO blow is a 9.9? BI attack, ET was 12.x compared to headsplitter being a 7.2. Now if scrappers ever get any of the "tank" sets then it will be a happy day for them. But really a stone melee scrapper would kill every other scrapper for dps, burst, and mitigation. So.... I have stone melee ported to scrappers in my mids. It is amazingly broken. -
Generally a single brute pulling most of the aggro will have full fury (or at least what is reasonable attainable being equivalent to full) by the time the first mob is defeated.
Two brutes can cannibalize each others fury though, but then you just turn the difficulty slider to produce larger spawns.
There is little reason that by the time the second mob falls both shouldn't have very high fury. Then it is up to you to keep up! -
Quote:Sappers fall to a stiff breeze. AS the meat, which will fear the sapper, then one shot it with your tier 8 or 9 attack.Originally Posted by trendee
I understand what you're saying, but that seems to be a rather strange design decision. It forces me as the player to choose between:
a.) AS a high priority target like a Sapper or Surgeon
or
b.) AS a target that will survive so I can demoralize a spawn
I would think that it would be better to encourage players to play tactically than to attack the tankiest target =/
Or just let something as puny as freezeray eliminate the sapper. -
I wouldn't put Basiliks in Seismic, earth is frankly carried by seismic smash. 5 crushing impact minus the dam/end and a lockdown end/rech/hold.
Proly skip firecages, as mentioned a big part of earth (and we can only guess it was part of the rationale behind the lower numbers the set produces) is the knockdown abilities the set carries.
That said, fissure and mudpots are so small it could be worth corner herding and then making sure they stay in the tiny area of effect with firecages. -
Quote:Makes sense, and then run it with lowest setting mobs until you ding 50, then probably set it for lvl 50 mobs. Could net a few purples on the way to 50. Once at 50 you'll probably want to run it vs evens so that lvl 50 recipes drop. Things like lvl 50 thunderstrikes sell for a few million very quickly at lvl 50, but probably won't sell at all at lvl 49...Originally Posted by chriz2ferx
42 SS/Fire brute and quite unwealthy, looking to pre-plan a good farm
Purple recipes theoretically drop from level 47+ mobs. Based off this, I am tempted to intentionally take the TV farm @ level 48, so I can use the -1 fateweaver setting so I can easily grind the mission against 47 mobs. Then at such later time (level 50, decent sets, etc), I can up the difficuly to +4 which should essentially be equal to the +2 setting, had I taken the mission at 50
Guess I just want to ask if anyone has done this, or if I am doing myself a dis-service by not waiting until level 50 to take the TV farm
Thanks in advance -
Quote:Pain can end up being pretty passive, basically rock the aura's... if you are looking for a bit less active (probably only FF is less active) then it is great. And very powerful.Originally Posted by chriz2ferx
I have been playing a Necro/Thermal for a bit, mostly to try out the secondary on melee-based henchmen. Like FF, I find it to be a bit tedious to regularly refresh shields on everyone. Thermal sounds even more buff-busy than FF because of healing thrown into the mix
From initial findings, I think I would like PainD more overall because there is less obligation to regularly refresh single target buffs, and also gives me more tankerminding capability, at least from what I have read, if someone could confirm
More feedback welcome please
Thermal is far more active as a result you can create a higher output from your pets.
MM's aren't generally challenged by anything short of AV's and thermal is superior to pain there. So my vote is thermal, from a pure power perspective.
To answer your last question, yes pain is a better tankermind, WoP and Suppress Pain both affect you, whereas a thermal only has the heal aura (which pain has as well). -
Quote:Being better at using seismic smash then everyone else in the game except a fury crazed stone/fire brute using bu+FE is indeed nothing to sneeze atOriginally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Ah, didn't realize Mid's accounted for Containment. Still though, 600+ damage for a ST attack on a troller that is also a mag 4 hold is nothing to sneeze at.
The fact that every single time the troller uses Seismic it produces that much damage is just game changing.
It makes me not hate the remaining tough single targets on my plant/kin, so on a fire/kin that can already produce strong st damage it has got to be astounding.
I found it weird that they nerfed troller app's damage not that long ago and then turned around and gave them back the ability to produce ludicrous damage much more recently.
The old blasts let them produce blaster like damage which was obviously too strong. But the new seismic lets them produce high fury brute numbers, which can't be all that much better.
All well, I love it and I'm not complaining about it, that's for sure. -
Quote:Think it might be closer to 80-90k, but as long as they have enough to remain solvent and there is about 1k logged in at the same time as me (I generally find this number resulting in nicely populated areas and plenty of selection for the full gambit of activities) then I'm happy enough. It is the latter requirement that never comes true these days (rarely blue, and never red).Originally Posted by PracticallyGod
you mean 100k - 110k people playing the game. I bet the devs wish there were 300 to 400 thousand people playing this game.
They still seem to take damage even though you can't target them. Fire off FSC and they should be hurting and ready for targeting by the time it is done. That of course is assuming they aren't rezzing at staggered times, but that depends on if you mowed them all down with the same aoe or not.Quote:Originally Posted by Hazygreys
Agreed. I was running the Westin Phipps arc with the teacher and freaks on my 44 fire/fire brute and it was very annoying to kill a group then wait while they rez to even target them. What's even more annoying is their ranged attacks would go off while I'm unable to target them at all.
It is a pretty annoying "fix" though, especially because they are definitely targeting us during their rez and fully able to do damage. -
While DP is on the low end of the totem pole it can produce in excess of 23 dps (though just barely depending on who you ask!!! lol). So yes.
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you are more or less a small purple from softcap. Which means you are ready to take on pretty much anything.
Unless you are specifically build for a no insp challenge (RWZ, Pylon, AV's) then insp fall like rain, use them to crush everything. Your numbers look high enough that even if you aren't supplementing you will still breeze through most encounters even without your shield friend nearby. -
Agree, drop fallout, soul drain, and soul transfer.
Replace with EF, hasten and combat jumping. Move slots around a bit so they are adequately enhanced.
Pull that slow set out of lingering rad, it is horrible. Far better ways to get the ranged def than by gimping that power.
You mention already having numi regen IO? put it in rad aura and 6 slot that set for ranged def if you are that desperate. Before gimping LR at any rate.
The other option is to embrace veng>fallout>mutation, but you need to actually build for it!
This build is like your first one, very affordable (as you already have the numi), but should do just about everything better. It makes the changes mentioned above and a bit more, so if that is non-negotiable then ymmv.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.621
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
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Quote:But is countered by the ever-pressing desire to get in and use drain psyche and psy shockwave.Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Devices has a lot of nice tricks and gets two powers to help keep enemies at range in the low levels.
I am surprised no has mentioned Mental.
At level one you get a ranged immob (80', which is way longer than any other secondary's immob) to keep an enemy at range.
At level 4 you can take a melee KB power to send an enemy back to range.
At level ten, you get a 60' ranged cone with good damage and decent mitigation in the form of -recharge.
Take Concentration (Build Up clone) at level 16.
At level 35 you get a ranged control power.
It certainly has the ability to stay ranged well enough, but means sacrificing considerable advantage.
/nrg on the other hand has no real need or even desire to go into melee. TF is slow enough to get you killed and no longer one shot mezzes bosses. Bonesmasher is nice, but st and not amazing enough to pull you into melee provided you have a full ranged chain.
I have to agree that the lack of boost range to be found anywhere except /nrg is disappointing. I thought they would toss it in some of the epics/ppp's just like they seem to throw powerboost around like it is going out of style. Imo boost range is great fun, whereas powerboost just tends to break the game. -
Quote:I'm concerned you will be disappointed with the survivability then if you are hoping it will be nearly as hardy as one of your def toons. The res sets can perform very well with a bit of room to breath, but without it their heals are quickly overwhelmed.Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon
I'm only considering scrappers, and only with the "elemental" primaries and secondaries (dark, earth, fire). Also, I've done a Katana/SR and I like her but once was enough for Katana.
Thanks tho!
Lewis
My new recommendation is elec/fire. Yes it will die A LOT, but have you seen how much damage RoTP does? About the same as a saturated+bu shield charge.
I'm slowly leveling one (mid 20's now). I won't say it is fun, but I think it will eventually be a blast to play. -
I've never had issue tanking things on my fire/ss and most of the time it feels like a super-scrapper in that it is very stable and can put out a ton of damage.
rage>burn>footstomp>fireball with blazing aura ticking away means everything that happened to be near me is dead.
Fireblast fills in nicely for the st chain of haymaker>blast>KO>haymaker>blast and does about 150 dps including blazing aura.
When you really want things dead you can always double stack rage and use FE too. Self capping your damage is fun.
Build for 20-30% def, pick up winters gift and temp protection and you can tank most anything. You can't afk tank like a granite or IO'd invuln, but you also do twice as much or more damage than them.
edit: fireball hits 16 targets add in footstomp and blazing aura and aggro holding has never been an issue for the toon. I do have taunt at 49, with just an acc (thought I recalled it not being auto hit vs AV's). But I rarely use it. -
neato
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Quote:Actually everything I said was right.Originally Posted by je_saist
um. right and wrong.
While Brutes cap at 90% resist, they get the same exact base values as Scrappers. That means that when capped into Enhancement Diversification, their resists are not going to get close to cap.
For example, an Invuln brute with all of the Smash / Lethal resist native powers and Tough will only be pushing 67.5% resistance... a far sight short of the cap. A stone brute in granite with tough will only have 73.125 resist, again, short of cap... and the ED capped stone skin will only be touching around 84% resist...
The difference can't exactly be made up in IO's either. The devs are aware of the disparity of resist buffs versus defense buffs in the various IO sets, and comments from the developers indicate most future sets will have resist values.
The solo(ing) advantage to brutes is that they do get a higher native HP cap, around 3200, and a higher base HP amount, around 1500.
Really then, if you are going to make the argument, play a different archtype, when it comes to resists, the argument is for tanks, and not brutes, stalkers, or scrappers.
a. He didn't ask about invuln.
b. He certainly didn't ask about stone armor
c He asked almost entirely about Ela and Fire
both of which CAN cap their respective strength on a brute. Both of which are much tougher in teams (and solo) than the scrapper version because of their higher caps, increased hp, and larger self heal.
He also didn't mention a single set with a hp increasing power, so I'm not sure if you are just reading the differences off of the wiki or what, but ya it is probably worth noting that the brute version of ela, fire, or dark will all benefit from frostworks more than the scrappers (accoladed scrapper won't get full use of a controller FW, while a brute has enough of a hp ceiling to benefit from a full defender version and still have room to go).
While I appreciate your position, brutes can and do play very similar to scrappers if you are looking for a stable toon with a ton of damage. Tanks and stalkers--- not so much. So the recommendation of a brute is probably consistent with his desire.
And if you want to enjoy a resistance set and still crank up the difficulty scrapper primaries (other than kat and BS) just don't have the mitigation of a set like Stone or even Superstrength. And having played a high lvl kat/fire the redraw is considerable; if that bothers the user.
My main point is that with GR coming and his desire to play a resistance set it may be worth thinking outside of the limited hero side options. Similar to how shield is generally considered superior on scrappers do to +dam and stronger shield charge, the pure resistance sets are superior on brutes.
Of course that might just be reserved for people that like the idea of ~scrapper damage, with tank survivability while teaming. While being tougher than a scrapper solo. Not everyone does.
edit:
Fair enough. I know I felt very similar, but the difficulty slider eliminated that almost entirely. Set to 4 people solo, the fury bar is a non-issue as it will always be high. So no more rushing like a maniac from spawn to spawn just to maintain high damage. Now you just do it because it is more funQuote:Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon
Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't enjoy brutes very much. Chasing the fury bar drives me bonkers. Otherwise, I'd consider it.
Thanks!
Lewis
If scrappers are all you are considering I'd probably play a kat/ela or kat/dark. Very survivable, good damage. but ymmv
2nd Edit: one other thing to consider is that if you enjoy burn, why wait for a controller to use it? be the controller. Fault>burn>tremor = everything near you is dead. Actually a MA/fire with dragon's tail can do it pretty well too. -
Quote:dark/stone is among the toughest tanks you can make and can out control some trollers too. Endurance though...Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Bah, no. I don't need more healing and I've got my endurance well under control. I do wish I'd have taken something with more mitigation though, instead of fire's straight damage. But fire fit the theme.
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Quote:this.Originally Posted by macskull
...What's that menu you're using to activate your toggles?
And I didn't see dark armor I saw orange armor. No one as far as I know ever doubted orange armor. -
If you want to play a resist set I'd recommend a brute. Not only because they are tougher and cap at 90%, but because you can pair it up with a superior mitigation primary compared to what scrappers can access.
Case in point, I'm currently leveling a stone/ela brute. Fault alone is as good as an armor set. The other attacks have as much knock down as any scrapper and Seismic smash is "i win" vs bosses.
Stone is also notoriously endurance unfriendly, which /ela solves. You also access darkest night, which can more or less resolve your desire not to build for defense and still give you those results.
At 36, I can honestly say that without using fault (and tremor to a lesser extent) the toon gets ripped apart solo'ing 0/5/bosses. I don't see it being different for any scrapper. With fault I breeze through most mobs.
edit: if you are wondering about damage vs a scrapper. My paper dps should easily top 250 on the final build. Tremor is a 15ft aoe and fault can take two damage procs (not to mention the FF +rech proc!). So it is very "scrapperesque" -
fireball has a little bit of smash. Or at least the player version does.