Frosticus

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  1. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hejtmane View Post
    Chimera is buggy period I have defeated him more than once where he had his sword out the entire time I have also beat him while even in melee range and I mean right next to him and he never put the bow away he is just flat out broken
    Chimera was just an example of an AV that is pretty deadly in melee and a kitten from range. I only used him as most of us are familiar with fighting the AV. Whether he uses one mode or the other in the correct situation is irrelevant to the point I was making and is a separate problem all together. I also cited freak tanks as their melee proficiency is much higher than their ranged.

    But you can look at pretty much every NPC in the game as most of them tend to be more dangerous in melee than when using their ranged attacks.

    The big three melee AT's all have access to immobs in their epic powers. Ring of fire is probably the best one available to scraps/tanks as it is the fastest and still boasts decent damage. The brute ones are all aoe on longer timers so can't be used as well to exploit this tactic vs tougher enemies.

    I'm not claiming this is a major issue that needs to be resolved immediately, but it is a bug in the programming that will likely be fixed at some point.
  2. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Talen_Lee View Post
    Almost as if the game is not, in fact, all about speed and efficiency.

    A lot of people are making statements that make assumptions about the game, and drawing from those assumptions, indicate that leaving Energy as it has been left for a year, and indeed, the change in the first place, is the result of feverish imagination, and to change it back or buff it otherwise would be a simple and obvious conclusion. I wish to suggest to all of you that perhaps the developers don't agree with your assumptions.
    In fairness to what Mac said EM does appear to be an aberration when compared to other sets (and I don't just mean melee).

    If they hadn't gone through and recently reworked weapons to have faster and smoother executions I'd be more inclined to agree with your position.

    Is there a set that is better at corpse blasting (or punching) and feels more like swimming in molasses? Well I suppose some set has to take the crown.

    *actually to answer my own question, dual pistols may give it a run for its money in corpse blasting, but at lest it is offset by "feeling" quick due to fluid animations.
  3. I really enjoy my plant/kin/stone. It starts off faster than fire due to seeds.

    (imo of course)
    Plant is the superior team controller and by a large margin vs fire
    Fire does more damage, but the difference at times isn't huge because the aoe immob does double damage and Carrion creeepers is pretty good too.

    Perma creepers is not a difficult goal to attain, but the problem is that the patch moves pretty slowly. When you zip off at max speed to the next spawn it can take awhile for the patch to catch up. So you are often not benefiting from it even though it is perma. So a map with close spawn points is definitely better than when they are spread far apart for creepers.

    I'll just through out some arbitrary numbers.

    If you want 30% more control go with plant
    If you want 30% more damage go with fire
  4. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
    I have an idea of what might be happening, but I'll need to do some extra investigation to be sure. I'll let you know when I find out for certain.
    That would be great. You can borrow "crack whip" from my demon MM if it helps you get any fixes implemented.
  5. Do you have a source citing it was a pvp change that affected pve, or are you just speculating?

    It probably hasn't been reverted back because it was a pve nerf that affected pve.
  6. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
    Which traps powers specifically seem to take longer to execute than their cast times would suggest?
    *This is going from memory as I no longer have the footage.

    Specifically which powers? I'm pretty sure it was Poison trap and acid mortar that were sticking out like sore thumbs and prompted me to test.

    The sequence I was testing at the time was:
    FFgen>Acid Mortar>Posion Trap> Caltrops>Seeker Drones

    Fraps and loaded into video editing software that advances at 0.01 second intervals

    As a control I also recorded a chain of flares>fireblast>blaze>flares>fireball> rain of fire

    and loaded it into the same video software and it resulted in total time within 0.05 seconds of expected Arcanatime, or something like that. Less than 1% off as I remember. Close enough where the software was reasonably accurate for my purposes.

    I never proceeded with a power by power analysis of the videos because I sent the initial findings to BaB's and then he asked a question I had already answered in my OP, so I rephrased and answered again, and that was the end of the conversation.

    However, I'm reasonably confident that seekers, caltrops, and FFgen were all fine and it was PT and Acid mortar that were the problem. They took closer to 3.25 seconds (again that is just from memory) where they should take 2.376.

    I did not have triage beacon to test at the time, but it shares that same animation so I'm guessing it would also have the same after cast pause before you can't do anything.

    For clarification it isn't really the "animation time" as they seem accurate, but rather a period where you just stand there unable to activate the next power. At the time I likened it to old broadsword.

    *I just jumped on live, but unfortunately I no longer have Fraps at my disposal. But acid mortar and pt are definitely locking me up a lot longer than rain of fire and while RoF should be a tiny bit faster the difference should not be so obviously discernible.
  7. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Werner View Post
    All Infernal has to do is close. Nothing is stopping him except how stupid the AI is, and hopefully that will eventually get fixed. If the situations were reversed (me with 5' range, him with 7' range), it wouldn't cause me a serious problem, because I'm not a stupid computer AI. I KNOW my melee attacks are better than my ranged attacks, so I'll close to melee. Infernal seems to be lacking that knowledge. Bummer for him.
    What's stopping him from closing is his preference for ranged (which is fine) and his summoned demons (also fine).

    What's preventing him from using his melee attacks while being melee'd himself is the range disparity of player powers and npc powers introduced not too long ago. If used to maximum effect the only attacks he'd be using with his axe are whirling and cleave. He doesn't have cleave so limiting him to just whirling is a huge decline to how potent he is designed to be against melee using characters.*

    * He is supposed to use beheader, chop, gash, pendulum, and whirling during a melee encounter.

    The limitation of the AI (no argument from me about it being retarded) makes this problem standout, but it is the range disparity that is the actual problem.

    In fact a resourceful scrapper using weapons mastery- webnade can trivialize many AV encounters simply because for a well built scrapper surviving their ranged output isn't a challenge at all and they won't be able to use melee while you can. So you gain all the advantages of being a melee toon such as mez protection, survivability, and very high damage, but none of the risks designed to accompany it.

    In this case it was using an npc to axe-block him (hehe) and I suppose it is easy enough to pin on the lack of AI. But what about a webnading scrapper vs the many AV's that have an immob hole? I don't think you can really blame the AI in that situation and yet the result is exactly the same. You are using melee attacks and the NPC can not due to the range disparity. You would literally be standing there punching him in the face and he can't punch you back.

    An excellent example would be Chimera. His katana is pretty deadly for many melee range characters due to the -def, inherent acc, and high damage. Whereas his bow attacks render him one of the least threatening AV's in the game when taken from range.

    *edit: this isn't just AV's either you can do it to pretty much any NPC with just webnade. Like freak tanks for instance - dangerous in melee, kittens from range.
  8. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hejtmane View Post
    He did not abandoned all attacks he was still hitting me and he still used his axe attacks just much less then he would if I was 5' vs 7' he tend to rely on his ranged attacks more often which still do damage and still carried risk I had a couple close calls in the battle.

    This was not hey the guy is not fighting back look here free attack on the idiot NPC. This was not one of those bugs like Hellions leaning against the wall and they never attack and just stand there like a punching bag (I have actually bugged than more than once).

    I never expected this to turn into this but it is pretty funny
    I understand what you are saying, but lets flip the scenario.

    Imagine if Infernal summoned his demons and they prevented you from using your melee attacks for much of the encounter by blocking your access to him. Occasionally they might shift around and allow you to get a shot it, but the rest of the time you are stuck using your ranged options. Which are much less powerful.

    Also Imagine Infernals attacks where all like cleave and had extra range build into them. Enough range where he could use his axe attacks, but you were unable to fight back with anything other than ranged attacks.

    You might say. Well I'd just kill the demons and that would make it a cool encounter. Ya it kinda would . But now imagine if the demons could not be injured and all they did was block you the entire time.

    I think most people would cry foul on the encounter.
  9. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Werner View Post
    I do agree that the devs should fix this glitch. I don't WANT the computer to play like a retard. I'm just not going to follow its example.

    I do think I understand the alternate point of view, and I agree that it's valid. Yeah, it's pretty obviously a hole in the AI that should be fixed. Yeah, I can see comparing it to beating on an NPC that somehow wasn't coded to fight back. Mind you, I'll do that too. I'm not going to go "Oh, he's not fighting back. I'd better stop hitting him before I get some undeserved XP." But anyway, can YOU at least see how it's also comparable to pulling? The difference, I suppose, is that the devs probably intended us to be able to pull. I just don't see that as significant. I've never cared what the devs INTENDED. Stupid NPCs are stupid NPCs in my book. I don't see the difference between a stupid NPC that runs over, alone, leaving his group, and a stupid NPC that prefers ranged attacks at anything over five feet, even though they have much more powerful melee attacks. I'm sure you don't agree, but can you at least see that point of view? It's all I ask.
    I personally can totally see your viewpoint. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it as long as you are aware of what is occurring.

    while the 7ft to 5ft disparity may be intended by the devs it just seems out of place when you consider they have always (well not always always, but you know what I mean) been able to out-range US.

    It seems weird that they would ensure out ranging npcs on a ranged attacker is extremely rare and then turn around and make it that way for every melee attack.

    Just to clarify, my issue in this case isn't that Infernal prefers his ranged attacks, that is his prerogative, but rather that you can technically melee him without him being able to use melee back. Because this could happen to many npcs this isn't just an issue with infernal imo.

    Now if he was detecting that the highest threat (ie his target) was using melee attacks and then prioritized his response to attempt a similar response this would be less of an issue. Then he would go nuts trying to reach you and to maintain that 2ft reach advantage would be extremely difficult (thus not fixing the technical problem, but a solid bandaid).

    This particular example of Infernal was a demonstration of limited AI in conjunction with a technical gap in the programming. Limited AI is fair game imo as it is what it is, but a bug in the power coding (7ft vs 5ft) is definitely degrading this accomplishment. At least as I see it.

    When a fire scrapper does defeat Infernal while facing his full wrath I don't think this particular technique will hold as much prestige.

    tl;dr version: you shouldn't be able to use a melee attack on something without it being able to use a melee attack on you. Given the historical changes that have been made to ensure npc retaliation I think it is fair to say this is likely a bug. It may be low priority as it rarely occurs in practice, but it is technically there on every encounter.
  10. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cyber_naut View Post
    Hey I could live with em being the single target king instead of buffing it's aoe. The problem is, there are several sets that are on par with em in terms of single target that absolutely obliterate it in terms of aoe. So imo, it needs a buff either way. I'd prefer an aoe buff, since that benefits more of the gameplay, but I'd be fine with a single target buff too.
    No argument from me. EM isn't the best at anything and while being average is fine it should come with being average at most things then.

    The way I see it, the st damage either needs to go back up, or the aoe needs to be boosted. I'd prefer a st increase to restore its niche as I'm very fond of specialties. Leaving it alone is just disappointing.

    *I especially like carving out niches for melee sets as they are otherwise so similar in terms of DS and recycled animations. It is far less of an issue for the buff/debuff sets as they were built from the ground up with focus specialization.
  11. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Silverado View Post
    Infernal can't be immobilized, though there's usually no need to, since his fighting preference is set to ranged rather than melee, as I said before
    My comment regarding immobilization was not specific to infernal. Based on the comments you have put up in this thread and mine I'd say we are saying the same thing.

    Relying on a glitch in the AI to defeat something is synonymous with saying you can't defeat it without the glitch.

    Like the npc's that used to do /em walllean and not fight back at all. I think if you encountered an AV (infernal for the purposes of this conversation) doing that and beat him down everyone would agree that was not working as intended.

    In this case we have 5ft vs 7ft and he isn't even trying to use melee despite being melee'd himself. To me it is as obvious as a wallleaning npc.

    In this case I'm not seeing a huge difference between using this hole in the programming and putting him in an AE mission and setting yourself to invincible.
  12. I think getting Castle to admit that i13 was a mistake probably isn't going to happen. The best you can hope for is an admission that it isn't working as well as they had hoped (which I'm pretty sure he has said).

    Getting them to roll back or reverse changes to a pre i13 state is a pipe dream. Unfortunately for us, while i12 was a lot more fun, it also didn't attract many players (albeit, more than now).

    They won't go from one unsuccessful state back to another.

    I also don't see them doing another massive overhaul akin to pvp3.0, which is probably required to make the system successful. I believe the best that can be hoped for (note I didn't say expected) is specific bug fixes within the i13 ruleset.

    When I talked about filling out the customer feedback form upon cancellation every month I didn't mean fill it with "roll teh game back to i12 pvp". I mean list the specific bugs within the system that are present. I know the last one I filled out was something like:
    -many pvp powers are bugged within the current system and make the game unenjoyable and even unplayable in some cases.
    then I list off 10 of so things like the purple placate bug, various powers that (were) rooting that shouldn't and such.

    When you send a PM to Castle their is no accountablility. You can get a read reciept and an "ill look into it" and the issue will disappear completely.

    When customer service says "we lost 150 accounts this month because people are unhappy about fortunata hypnosis in pvp". And then next month "we just lost another 150 accounts because of fortunata hypnosis".
    *150 is just used as a demonstrative number

    This is how you create accountability within an organization. The more departments and people that know about an issue and may inquire about an issue raises the priority of an issue. When only a few people know about the problem it isn't really a problem.

    I encourage people to continue posting articulate pvp improvement threads and sending them off to paragon staff. Unfortunately the only thing they have accomplished was getting Lighthouse canned because he was honest with us.

    I believe if change is to occur (again only bug fixes within the current ruleset are likely) then you need to get some other departments involved. Approaching Castle directly has gotten us where?

    I dunno, it's just a thought I had a while ago and I've been doing it for some time. I've watched quite a few people dump everything they have into seeking improvements via the forums and direct with Castle only to be ignored entirely. I can spend 5 min a month a likely have a larger voice than a 50 page thread when it comes to pvp. And the more people that used that voice the louder it would be.
  13. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zmoosh View Post
    No apology necessary, the problem with text communication is that it can be very hard to convey tone and nuance without going on for pages.

    I haven't stripped my fire/traps corr yet, so I went back and played him. I tried diff approaches and played solo and team. I have come to the conclusion that what i really don't like about traps is not the powers themselves (they are good), it's the whole place them at my feet thing.
    If I could place Triage Beacon, Acid Mortar, and Poison Trap at range it would improve the set immeasurably.
    I can't definitely understand that. The requirement to play in melee is not synonymous with the ranged AT that traps is available (obvious exceptions to this generalization are some of the MM pairings).

    When you read the description of corrs you certainly don't expect to have to melee range every single encounter, which for better or worse you do with traps unless played in the very slow pull strategy method.

    I have a sneaking suspicion the devs original vision for the set was a "pull strategy", but unfortunately that doesn't mesh with how the game tends to be played.

    I think a decent comprimise between that original vision and ingame reality would be to give the traps castings about a 20ft range. I don't think that would really change the functionality of the set, but it would make it a bit more flexible. More would of course be awesome, but I'm not sure being able to easily drop them around corners and from stealth (without suppression) is a good idea if given more range than that.

    The main thing I'd personally like to see is the cast times set to what they are supposed to be. Many of them have little pauses at the end that extend their actual time about 30% longer than they should be even when adjusted for Arcanatime. It was playing havok with my paper calculations vs ingame experience for expected damage output. It wasn't till I fraps the set in action that it became clear.

    Once that is fixed (been about a year since I sent the info to BaB's) I'd like the cast times sped up a bit ala Trick Arrow style. Get them down in the 1.5 range rather than the 2.2 sec range.
  14. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma View Post
    I guess you feel it's cheating to get an enemy to pull out their melee weapon, then constantly back-peddle to avoid being hit by it too?
    While directed to Siverado, I'll give my opinion if anyone would like to hear it.

    This is indeed glitching the AI. It is a limitation of the game that once most npc's pull out a drawn weapon they will no longer utilize ranged attacks. Enemies with non-drawn melee don't suffer from this and some models that have specifically been hand-tweaked by the devs (like ninja's) are capable of using their ranged attacks while having their sword out because of this exact reason you cite. Players were getting upset that our powers were glitching out all the time.

    The only difference is that the players were able to voice their concern over the problem while npcs can't.
  15. I think we've all played games where you encounter the boss that is super difficult and it suddenly gets stuck against a wall or something and you beat it down with impunity.

    Glitching the AI. In the end you've reduced the difficulty of the encounter not through your own power selection (like immobing and picking away at them from range), but through a loophole in the system.

    You can assign whatever moral designation to that you want, but I don't think it is working as intended.

    That said, if the enemy was making an active attempt to use his melee on you and you kept blocking said use by constant repositioning so that obstacles were between you (even enemies in this case) then it would clearly be tactics.
    edit: vs the ones with drawn weapons I know I am exploiting a weakness in the system and don't claim otherwise. Vs the ones that will still use ranged attacks, but are set to melee preference this is a great method.

    I can think of a few times I've reduced the melee efficiency of certain AV's on my fire/traps by having my tangible traps between myself and the enemy and applying -jump to the AV. It will constantly attempt to reach me, but struggle to work past the obstacles buying me safety while I kill it.

    *yes I know it is easier to just immob them with webgrenade, but not all of them immob easily and I'm generally pushing for speed kills rather than just kills itself.
    *edit: that said a no insp kill on infernal with a fire scrapper is pretty good demonstration of damage though.
  16. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Xanatos View Post
    As you can tell from the latest patch notes; the developers are making PVP changes.
    They aren't in the process of squashing pvp bugs. Sorry to disappoint, but they were just a couple quick corrections to the new set that weren't following the established i13 ruleset.

    They have the bug reports and complied lists that have been done and they have prioritized them to the order of taking no action at this current juncture.

    This isn't meant to dissuade anyone from trying to improve pvp, but rather just a reminder to keep your expectations and even your hopes set extremely low.

    I encourage everyone to cancel their subscriptions monthly (and resub at some point prior to losing access) and take the time to fill out the customer evaluation form. Voice your concerns about pvp there (in addition to what you are doing now). If Paragon is like most businesses then exiting customer feedback is given very high value. Likely much higher value than our tiny voice can generate on the forums.

    They may at some point flag your account feedback as spam, but I doubt it will happen very quickly. If at all.

    *I'm aware the dual pistol corrections are technically bug fixes, but hopefully everyone understands what I'm saying.
  17. A long time ago I sent Castle a PM explaining my own view on "uniqueness withint cox". Basically, if something is going to occupy a niche is needs to dominate that niche. I used examples like ice armor resisting slows and cold damage, fire armor doing damage and resisting fire (this was of course long before shields came out and stole the damage crown). The post was directed at super reflexes even though I wasn't playing it at the time. I said, if super reflexes' specialty is defense and pretty much only defense then it needs to be able to maintain that defense at all times even when being debuffed. About 4 months later SR was sitting pretty at 95% DDR with just normal slotting of the powers.

    I'm certainly not trying to take credit for that change in the game as I'm sure many other people were making similar suggestions, but rather highlighting a point.

    Personally, I don't want an AoE boost to EM (I have nothing against those that do and wish them well). I'd much rather the design principle that states:
    If EM is going to only be good at single target damage and single target mitigation then it needs to be the best at that.

    What about fire melee? fire can do damage near it, but fire also does a lot of aoe, so the point stands.

    So that means no more stone melee out controlling an entire group better than EM can control a single target. And no that doesn't have to come at the expense of Stone.

    *It of course mandates that the statement about EM's damage be true, which in my view it should be, but the dev's could very well differ and likely do.
  18. Quote:
    Originally Posted by macskull View Post
    Footstomp's radius is larger than Frozen Aura's (15 feet vs 10 feet).
    You know I always just assumed it was 15ft because of the animation it shares with FS, fault and fissure (non doms as that was gimped ala Castle just for doms heh). And the large aoe gfx.

    It would appear footstomp is safe both IO'd and non then. Still one of the better aoe's available to tankers though and a far cry from
    "Frozen Aura is the single worst power in game, it needs changing to a long recharge hold or something not a sleep to make the set worthwhile."

    Unless again, he was speaking of the blaster version, which even still isn't near the "worst" power in the game
  19. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zmoosh View Post
    If I haven't made it abundantly clear, everything I've said in this post has been my opinion. As for being countered I didn't realize we were playing forum wars, and I fail to see how a differing opinion counters mine.

    Perhaps I need to add one of those signatures that say something along the lines of my post may include biased opinion. Looking back at my posts I thought I made it clear that I was expressing my opinion of traps for a Corr.
    That's what I thought at first from reading the first two sentences
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zmoosh View Post
    Like I said maybe it just didn't click with me. I'm not saying traps can't be useful or contribute.
    but then you pull a 180 and cut it down.
    Quote:
    I'm saying that other Corr secondaries will provide equal if not more benefit with less effort and risk. YMMV.
    Forgive me if you were actually expressing your opinion, but it sounded like a statement of declaration about traps.

    I apologize if I read too much into your words, I have a soft spot for traps as it is so often slandered as being a poor teaming set, when in fact if played right it is perhaps one of the best.
  20. Frozen aura is a footstomp clone except rather than knockdown it does sleep. Given that few tanker aoes extend to that same 15ft range I'd actually lean toward frozen aura being a better power than footstomp (until IO's enter and you slot the +rech FF proc).

    I'm beginning to wonder though, I mean you didn't know that rage's -def can be negated with just SO's and you didn't know that frozen aura was buffed quite some time ago to do the same damage as footstomp. I'm starting to worry that you might not know what you are talking about at all.

    Unless you were talking about blaster frozen aura? in which case this conversation is all over the map.
  21. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zmoosh View Post
    Like I said maybe it just didn't click with me. I'm not saying traps can't be useful or contribute. I'm saying that other Corr secondaries will provide equal if not more benefit with less effort and risk.
    Stick with the first sentence as the last one just begs to be countered...yet again.
  22. Quote:
    Originally Posted by macskull View Post
    PvP was "fine" for 9 issues. EM was "fine" for 10 (changed between I9 and I10) issues. Psychic Shockwave was "fine" for 9 issues. No AoE caps, taunt caps, or aggro limits was "fine" for 5 and 6 issues respectively. The ability to slot more than 100% worth of a particular enhancement value was "fine" for 6 issues. The BotZ set bonuses were "fine" for 4 issues. Being able to buff pet recharge time was "fine" for 14 issues.

    See what I'm getting at here?
    That even once the amount of time has passed where the slowest adopter would consider something to be a feature of the game the devs don't really care.

    I once posed a question that asked at what point does a deviation from their vision become a feature that they accept. There is of course no consistent application of it and somethings you would have expected them to change when the opportunity presents itself they dubbed "feature" and other things you would have expected them to leave alone after years of it being common practice/knowledge have been drastically altered.

    I've heard rumors of a dartboard being utilized more than once.

    Quote:
    (EDIT, on topic: you can completely negate the -def from the Rage crash by stacking Rage just before it wears off. In other words, the -def is only a worry before you get enhancements into the power.)
    Ya that's what I was trying to hint at when I stressed easily. I know the devs mentioned not being through with rage after the last round of changes. I like to keep stuff off of Castle's radar as I usually don't like the changes he does.
  23. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Predatoric View Post
    I did role one ages ago but the reason you dont see it is because of the rage debuff, -defence really kills shields a lot.

    It is manageable but its easier to just pick a different set
    The debuff is easily manageable, not just manageable and if picking another set gives you tools as powerful as AAO and SC then I say go for it. I see quite a few shield/ss running around though. Well at least relative to the number of shield tanks you see, and the number of tanks you see period.
  24. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jharber View Post
    I am trying /thermal right now and I actually like it with demons. It always seemed that everything that kicked the crap out of my pets was an AoE "FIRE" attack. So having high fire resist will be very welcome indeed. The only thing though is that I will be playing blue side and I am not sure if I will need high fire resist on blue compared to red. On red we have longbow and scrapyarders and CoT. I can only think of CoT on blue side? What does anyone else think about this?

    I also think I might skip Cauterize since the buffer demon can help heal also and I will still have my aoe heal + two shields, but that is still undecided and a lot will depend on how much powers I have left and still want etc. I will probably also skip thaw and power of the phoenix.

    What do you guys think would be more useful? Nemesis staff or Black wand? I am trying black wand for the first time on test, but I am honestly really missing the KD from Nemesis staff and I thought it might mix well with whips KD? I dunno yet. I do plan to be magic origin, so I don't know how much I would miss the extra damage from nemesis staff yet.
    If you are planning to mostly solo with the toon then your plans sound fine.
    You should pick the vet power that goes with your origin. Magic gets bonus damage on the black wand. So I'd go with that.
  25. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Fire_Minded View Post
    Oddly enough, I rarely see any new Tankers or high level Tankers for that matter using Super Strength these days.Is it because Sheilds are that popular that people shy away from the Rage?

    Im on Freedum, and I recall not having seen a SS Tanker for the last 2 months anywhere.
    I have little doubt SS is still leaps and bounds more popular than the other secondaries. What are you typically seeing paired with shields? I find shields/SS to be a very common toon on my travels. For good reason too, if you want to make a very offensive tank it is near the top for sure and very easy to softcap.