Frosticus

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I hit 41 last night on my brute and grabbed web enzelopment and hit RV. It halts jump and fly perfectly and hit quite often with only one acc in it. Also with hasten, the power was back up almost before the effect wore off on my target. I had fun webbin people then that were chasin me then jumpin up on a roof...lol

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Loving how good this sounds, both offensively and defensively (ie gain the higher ground and recover a bit).

Frosticus

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Considering 4 Hero ATs can kill any AT that's not a brute within 3 shots in RV, it would make sense if they nerf it.

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hehe fixed it for you.

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I would also like to point out that Scrappers already have access to web grenade and caltrops (both -jump) in the weapon mastery EPP, but you almost never see this since every scrapper took body mastery to get FA and ignore defense based sets.

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Webnade alone isn't really that harsh, my superspeed barely feels the effects and I only really notice it if I need to get over some obstacles (I use sj and ss).

I feel where the biggest complaint will come from is when a corruptor nails you with -jump and a massive slow power that a number of the sets have access to. This will effectively turn the target(s) into sitting ducks. FA or not, a scapper will have a hard time interrupting 2 or 3 stalker AS's in that situation. If I was a stalker I would love to team with a corruptor that could do this to every hero in the game and buff me (sr and /ice tanks would have resistance, but would still feel it).

Like I said my prediction is -travel power suppression and yes it will be applied globally (even though I do not want it).

Frosticus

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My fear is that it does have AoE -jump. And someone will complain too much and the devs will change it. Leaving us with a crap patron and no way to respec out of it...

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Yep, between the aoe and the st hold, both with -jump I see no reason why I wouldn't be able to permenantly disable someone's travel powers while hasten + AM are going.

So what do I expect to happen.......

-travel power suppression. After that first bout wears off they have 10seconds of immunity just like mezzes.

Considering how potentially effective black scorp could be in pvp I foresee virtually every pvp build taking it. That over-popularity could result in a change/nerf if and when the whines start filling up every page of the forums.

We'll see though,

Frosticus

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Frosticus, the 1/sec thing for the shields isn't true. In fact, it was stated by someone in another thread that _Castle_ said (from a PM) it was more like 0.3/second.

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That is good to hear and realistic too. Once I got a few vam-ies (villain hamis) in some attacks, thus lessening the endurance burden I could make use of a shield throughout a fight.

A lot of people seem really concerned about villains. I feel it is because stalkers have become less of a force (still strong, but not pwn you every time strong). But it is important to consider what other villains can contribute.

MM's seem quite a bit stronger because of bodyguard and the faster charging upper tier upgrade.

Dom's seem to be stronger now too and I've actually witnessed some using domination (which was really rare previously)

Brutes will be a force if and when fury is fixed in pvp. Their big hitters pack a major punch when they get rolling.

I'm fairly happy with where I see corr's going and consider them to be the deciding factor in fights.

The ultimate outcome goes to the heroes though because even once all is said and done they have better support through 2 buffing ATs and support is what wins the big fights.

I'm not spearheading the initiative to nerf FA or anything (but you might see my signature on the petition ) I wouldn't mind if a scrapper occasionally missed once they have been debuffed, but it is more of a concern to stalkers and brutes I think. The power does not need to be gutted, but an overall reduction in effectiveness (compensated by a reduced endurance cost so even DA scrappers can use it) might be expected down the line.

I'm not sure how I feel about trollers becoming high damage AT's at this point in time. I still can't figure out why containment does triple damage in pvp as opposed to double (like pve). If a troller manages to mez you then prepare for them to drop the hammer. 0.55 damage modifier or not you will feel their wrath if they lock you up for a second. Look at it this way: my corr is listed as a high damage AT and does good respectable damage, trollers aren’t described as that. However, primal, fire and ice can all kill me faster than I can possibly kill them (from a pure damage standpoint, and probably even if I scourged every attack from 50% down). Psionic and stone don’t seem to have the same damage output, but have other benefits like mez protection and hp boost.

I look at it this way: seeing as how trollers inherent helps them output more damage and dom's inherent primarily helps them increase control then..... What if doms got a triple contol bonus for damaging you? They sort of did get a control bonus before for their damage because they had tog drops but that aspect is virtually gone for them now. That to me, kind of highlights how I see containment working in pvp right now.

Certainly there are some imbalances, but DOOOOOM is not upon us. Another 10 levels will only help us out on the villain side.

Frosticus

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One thing to remember Frosticus -

soon you will have the ability to take your PP armor. This will add about 30% resist/defense to those BS and Katana attacks. Sure the crits will ignore it - but throughout the course of a prolonged fight with say, that Katana - how much would that have changed things?

I know that with my Corr I will be less afraid of getting insta-mauled by a Scrapper once I can effectively slot up some more defense against their mainly s/l damaging attacks.

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Quite true PorkChopXpress

However, to gain access to the -jump powers of Black Scorp, which will help me in virtually every foreseeable battle, means I will only have access to a +def shield. Sadly I feel that even at 30% defense (which would be very high and I expect more in the range of 20%) FA will blow through that very easily.

One of the resistance based shields would be sweet against scrappers, but personally the -jump is more important to my playstyle.

That being said at the stated 1end/sec burn rate of the shields I don't know what toon other than a regin scrapper with stamina could actually run them (cause they don't have any problem running FA through a 5min fight as their end bar doesn't even move). I hope the 1end/sec is just a typo and that the endurance use is more in line with the hero APP shields (around a third of the cost).

-jump alone is not necessarily a killer because so many people have superspeed too, but with one of the powerful slows that a corruptor has it is devastating. Your team can ravage an opponent(s) that is doing the baywatch run and stalkers can easily land an AS on that target despite being seen.

What corr's need is a super special PPP (like force or body) that has the -jump, an endurance recovery/conservation, a shield and finally, the token pet (though instead of the pet a ST hold would be better).

RV is good times (and I don't mean that new Robin Williams movie, not that I've seen it).

Frosticus

Further Impressions on RV:

The day of the scrapper has truly arrived.
Blasters are always a threat, but they mostly just hit up pff and run away when a couple people show up. But, my god scrappers are insane at this stage. Incredible damage (nearly blaster level) and so much survivability it is scary. Especially teh regin.

One of the members from the Freaks SG was kind enough to engage me for some testing with his BS/regin. By the way, he is definitely one of the best scrappers I have seen in action and used fear very well. FA is what truly makes them click, he simply did not miss me nor did I miss him because I used rad infection to 'paint' him.

I used all my best kiting techniques, but ultimately even the almighty ice/ roots you for a second and that is all a BS scrapper needs to put you in a world of hurt. Just to clarify, he basically owned me in RV no matter what I did (but this may change once I get my ppp’s and another 18slots so it is all good). In the arena set at level 40 the match was much more even and we split 1to1 (jerk two shotted me right off the bat lol). In siren’s call the match swung in my favor mostly because of the early blooming nature of /rad which makes my lvl 32-38 powers unnecessary.

In the arena I used webnade + Lingering rad and he stated that it would be a killer combo, as even his superspeed was at a crawl. So I am looking forward to Black Scorp as my ppp.

I also had a 5min match against a kat/regin in one of the corners. I used hasten + AM 3 times over the duration of the fight. Again they simply do not miss with FA, it gives them as much or more accuracy then my 3defdebuff slotted Rad infect does, but with out the 4 second animation and the consequences of trying to run a tog debuff in zone pvp (i.e. mass npc aggro and it only working around the one target).

The kat/regin was much more manageable as I could heal up his damage much easier than the BS scrapper, but I eventually lost when a longbow warden wandered by and decided to put the hurt on me.

In case anyone is interested it takes 4 stacked freezerays (or non dom/troller holds) to overcome their mez in RV as opposed to 3 in sirens and warburg (not 100% sure on WB though). As a result one of my strategies that involves mezzing the scrapper has disappeared, though it may come back depending on how well the holds from the ppp's perform.

Overall I feel that my corruptor stacks up fairly well in the zone. Using /rad (cold or kin too) which I feel is the designed counter to regin seems to potentially perform well (depending how the ppp's turn out for corrs). The matches between an optimum corruptor and regin scrapper will be very interesting. I feel that the favor may actually be for the corruptor if the –jump from Black Scorp works as well as the webnades available in the arena. Of course this is under optimal circumstances, more often than not the scrapper will just 2-3 shot pretty much any squishy. But in teams the counter that a corruptor can bring against the scrapper seems to be well thought out.

Had some wicked fun fights and look forward to leveling up and showing people just how nasty a corruptor that doesn't let you move can be.

Also I am now leveling up a scrapper (currently lvl 16) because I was amazed at their power in RV. In previous zones they are strong, but blasters always shone brighter. NOT ANYMORE lol.

Frosticus

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Can someone clear up how scrappers critical in pvp? I played as my scrapper and destroyed an entire villain team and seemed like I had a 25% chance to critical instead of a 5%. This seems true as well from being criticalled, over and over again on my villains.


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I would also like to be reassured on this one. I have raised this concern before, but with no response. I have a very strong feeling it is more in the range of 15% rather than 5%, which is fine I guess though I would like confirmation. I rarely go a fight with a scrapper when I don't get hit by at least one critical. It sure doesn't take a scrapper an average of 20 attacks to kill me either. More often they only hit me about 3times whether they win or lose. With no lag they lose, with lag they will beat my corruptor senseless because I can't kite.

My general impressions of RV:
-I can’t speak for any other villain AT’s but;

-awesome, loving the whole zone

- my corruptor still absolutely destroys in most 1on1's and even
some 1on2's (outside of lag that is)

-can't wait to get my -jump powers, I will make lives so miserable for heroes they will all change over to TP

-lag was horrendous, but there was about 100 heroes and a good 50 villains.

-FA doesn't seem to affect my corruptor's performance as I stopped using Rad infect for the tohitdebuff awhile ago, now I use it primarily for the defdebuff (though if people miss I don't mind). Like I say with -jump, lingeringrad, and other ice attacks they won't be closing on me and their powers don't recharge.

-controllers have definitely become a major threat, rather than my corr's main annoyance. Not being able to mez them certainly has its downsides.

-blasters are even better melee masters with FON going and pff to retreat to when things hit the fan.

-tanks never were or are now a threat (except if an /em gets you by surprise) and unless you have half an hour, or another player with me, I just ignore them (keep on hibernating tanks it makes me smile every time)

Overall: the APP's that heroes have don't really affect my corruptor’s abilities. Some targets got harder to kill, but some will get sooooo much easier to destroy with the –jump + LR. All I can suggest is that you don’t stray far from you precious hero huddle, or be prepared to spam the HELP! Key a whole bunch

Assuming the zone has the playable level of lag that the other pvp zones do once it goes live I am very much looking forward to it.

Frosticus

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However, I've done too many missions where the first thing that happens is 3 Freakshow Smashers or Longbow Spec Ops or Circle of Thorns Earth Thorn Casters hop around the corner. AM will reduce the duration of Handclaps and Stalagmites and resist the endurance drain of EMP grenades so you can stay in the fight if you just happen to not have a Break Free on you (as is often the case in PvE).

The problem with mezzers isn't when you run into one; it's having to fight a mission full of them (Tsoo, for instance). Even the fastest charging Freeze Ray won't nullify a group of 3 minion mezzers before they get a chance to drop your toggles, and the -recovery and recharge time of EM Pulse make it only so helpful in these missions.

Again, this is where RI comes in. Lay it down first, and you're usually flooring minion accuracy. People may complain about the casting time, but being locked down for 2 seconds (since you can move in the last second of the casting time) is not a significant time loss. Especially for the huge increase in survivability.

Remember: as a Corruptor, you need to spend time debuffing. Otherwise, you're just a weak Blaster who heals.

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I guess my rad infection is just teh gimp then cause +3's and higher (and maybe +2's with the tohitdebuff changes idk) hit through it quite consistently.

We must play a different style, which is awesome because it shows the versitility of the potent ice/rad corruptor.

I run into trouble if I play a defensive game and end up faceplanting more often, but that is just me. I never lead with RI while solo (if I need to debuff then I lead with freeze ray then RI+freezeray then EF+LR = held useless boss) against lts. it is always freezeray first. I don't even bother with RI on most lts. and simply use EF, but I have pretty good accuracy so results may differ for others depending on slotting.

In team play I will lead with RI or LR or even EF depending on circumstance, but I rarely get mezzed because I won't take the alpha for any team larger than 3/4 people if the enemies are +2 or higher. I've found there is nothing more frustrating and counterproductive than using your tog debuffs then getting mezzed 1second later, so I do what I can to avoid that.

Melee mezzers have never given me a problem. I am a ranged attacker so I just move around when they try to close. Most people like to stand in one spot in PvE which is fine, but once you PvP alot you see the benefit of movement and staying away from enemy melee.

Ranged mezzers are really the only threat to my playstyle because they will hit through RI quite easily at high difficulty settings. So I mezz/kill them first, if there is more of then I can handle without getting mezzed myself then I eat a bf.

There is no reason to do pve without inspires on hand so starting a mission without at least a few bfs (or other inspires) is kind of silly IMO. In cov we have contacts in every zone so I don't see the reason to go inspireless (unless for additonal challenge). A strikeforce would be the only situation, but you can still get inspires at the arena or pocket d.

idk, mezzing is the bane of most squishies in CoX but I feel corruptors have the most to lose (on the cov side) when they do get mezzed because of our multipurpose role in teams. If you lose one damage dealer you may not notice, or if you lose one debuffer/buffer you may not notice that much either, but if you lose one of each (which many corr's are) your team just got significantly weaker.

Again a corruptor that is mezzed is not contributing to the team success. Considering the importance of the role, being mezzed for anything over 1-2 seconds at a time can be a tremendous detriment.

This is just my play experience though and I am very happy that other people have found success in other playstyles. Kudos to those that effectively use a build in various ways.

Frosticus

32 second recharge single target hold ftw. I was hoping for a relatively fast hold to stack with freezeray so I could perma mezz two bosses or get a tank in pvp.

Could someone confirm whether they are infact -jump? As it is pretty much the deciding factor for me with this set. I need something to balance the redraw of the mace and the fact that it really doesn't suit my toon.

Also web envelope says it has -recharge, but does it have -speed aswell?

Concerned,

Frosticus

Sadly I am inclined to agree with the dissapointment that others are stressing.

My main interest is in the single target hold (from all the sets). I really want something to stack with freezeray. But at 32 seconds for the recharge that is almost insulting. Unless I am mistaken (my blaster has force mastery) the blaster epic holds are on a 16second recharge as is the defender hold from psychic. What up with that?

Powersink has twice the recharge that my blaster's does, but it would still be useful as it is such a sweet power.

Frosticus

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As for staggering, I find it can depend on whether I'm solo or teamed. Starting off with AM when everyone is clustered at the door is a lot easier than telling them to gather a minute later.

If your endy bar is draining fast, you will get more benefit out of casting AM second. But then Hasten provides a greater recharge buff, so it can bring AM back faster if you fire IT second.

Tricky, ain't that?

Another thing to consider is whether or not you're going into a mission filled with mezzers. Activating AM as soon as you enter the mission can be quite helpful when you get ambushed at the door by a bunch of Freakshow who want to chain-mez you.

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No it really isn't very tricky it is whatever works best for each user. Personally I've never had any problem hitting every person in my team with AM once the fight has started. The only people that generally stand far back are mm's, but their pets are usually close to the fight and getting the pets is more important then the mm himself. Using AM at the door is great in some teams, or once everyone has given the ready signal, but even a slight delay makes that cast time become less valuable.

I can't honestly recommend relying on AM for mez protection, certainly not with good conscience. It is a great buff (+dam, +rech, +speed, +recovery) and cuts mezz duration by ~50%, but when fighting on the hardest difficulty (which many higher level teams do and a solo ice/rad corr is more than capable of) getting mezzed even for a few seconds will put you into a world of hurt. Even if you are not in peril, standing around for 5 seconds instead of 10 still means you are not contributing during that period (your togs aren't debuffing, you aren't healing and you aren't damaging). I just pop bfs if heavy mezzing is occuring, an ice/rad certainly doesn't need any other inspires (ok maybe a couple greens for emergency use and a blue or two).

With my prefered slotting of freezeray (2acc,2rech,2hold) it is ready in less than 4seconds. This means I can greatly reduce the number of mezzers in the situation, thus making it easier for the team to pick them apart. But again this is just my experience and play style, you or others may find success in a different technique.

I actually don't recommend slotting for only 1 acc in attacks. Unless you run tactics or heavily slot rad infect with defdebuff. Wiffing is not fun against anything let alone +2 or higher (where it becomes dangerous to miss with key attacks). The problem with relying on rad infect so much for acc is that if and when you solo you really don't need it other than for bosses and the occasional lt. So casting on every mob just so you can hit them will slow you down a great deal (while solo). Also in teamplay there will more than likely be enemies outside of the infected area, with only 1 acc in attacks you will miss more often than most will like against +2's.

But again it is whatever works for the user and you have certainly given some in-depth insight into the powerset that is very valuable at all levels of play.

Frosticus

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Firing AM and Hasten at the same time isn't a bad habit for PvP, but I find staggering works better in the ongoing battles of PvE. Oh, and staggering doesn't mean use one then wait to use the other when it's worn off. Nah, just wait 30 seconds or something between casts to spread them out.

I found Freeze Ray recharges more than quickly enough with Hasten + AM and 1 Recharge Reduction, but YMMV. Again, that's a situation where staggering means you won't have to wait as long when you finally do want to fire them both off at the same time (aka, there's an Inv/SS Warden around the corner ).

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That kind of staggering makes sense and works well as I've used it. I still prefer to use both at once but that is just me.

Do you fire hasten first or AM? I found when staggering hasten is better to use first because as you start running out of endurance it is time to fire off AM, which will help you recover. Plus the end drop at the end of hasten is then compensated by AM.

I agree that freezeray recharges plenty fast with hasten+AM and 1 recharge, that was how I had it slotted for a long time.
Your newest build posted doesn't have a recharge in it though, which is why I commented. But I think we are in agreement there

Good job and have fun bringing your enemies to their knees

Frosticus

I'm posting my planned I7 respec build (once I get the free respec cause I ran out of available ones).

It is primarily a PvP build, but still functions very well in PvE, with focus on solo play. Team play is fine with this build but skipping icestorm and em pulse will reduce your team contribution a sizeable amount.

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Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
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Name: Frosticus
Level: 40
Archetype: Corruptor
Primary: Ice Blast
Secondary: Radiation Emission
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01) --> Ice Bolt==> Acc(1) Acc(3) Dmg(5) Dmg(7) Dmg(17) Rechg(40)
01) --> Radiant Aura==> Heal(1) Heal(17) Heal(19) EndRdx(21) Rechg(34)
02) --> Ice Blast==> Acc(2) Acc(3) Dmg(5) Dmg(7) Dmg(15) Rechg(27)
04) --> Radiation Infection==> TH_DeBuf(4) TH_DeBuf(9) TH_DeBuf(11) DefDeBuf(27) DefDeBuf(29) DefDeBuf(29)
06) --> Hasten==> Rechg(6) Rechg(13) Rechg(13)
08) --> Freeze Ray==> Acc(8) Acc(9) Rechg(19) Rechg(31) Hold(31) Hold(34)
10) --> Accelerate Metabolism==> Rechg(10) Rechg(11) Rechg(15) EndMod(36) EndMod(36) EndMod(39)
12) --> Combat Jumping==> Jump(12)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14)
16) --> Hurdle==> Jump(16) Jump(39)
18) --> Bitter Ice Blast==> Acc(18) Acc(21) Dmg(23) Dmg(23) Dmg(25) EndRdx(25)
20) --> Swift==> Run(20)
22) --> Stamina==> EndMod(22) EndMod(31) EndMod(33)
24) --> Lingering Radiation==> Rechg(24) Rechg(34) Slow(37) Rechg(37) Slow(40)
26) --> Acrobatics==> EndRdx(26)
28) --> Teleport Foe==> Acc(28) Acc(33)
30) --> Aim==> Rechg(30) Rechg(33) Rechg(36) TH_Buf(40)
32) --> Enervating Field==> EndRdx(32) EndRdx(37)
35) --> Teleport==> Range(35) Range(39)
38) --> Super Speed==> Run(38)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Jump(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
01) --> Scourge==> Empty(1)
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I don't use acc in lingering rad because aim recharges at the same rate. Thus aim+LR is great for me considering how little it actually buffs our damage.

As more spare slots become available they will go into hurdle and combat jump (both jump enh) for even more unsurpressable combat movement. Then I will be a kiting machine. Also aim will receive additional tohit enhances.

I am probably planning to pick up black scorp PPP's for the web nades. The -jump will be a destroyer when combined with LR.

Again this is a PvP focus so a PvE build could very well be quite different.

Frosticus

Pretty solid guide War.

Personally I don't like frostbreath because it doesn't fit with the rest of the attacks style-wise and it has a long animation.

I also religiously use AM+hasten at the same time. The ~40-50seconds that it is down for sucks but you can still kill effectively enough.
I've tried alternating them, but found I had major endurance issues without AM buffing my end recovery, while still having the major recharge bonus of hasten.
Also I found that with just AM up I had way more endurance than I needed while only attacking a little bit faster.
I only have bib slotted with 1end reduc though, whereas my other two attacks both have a recharge
All attacks have 2acc, 3dam for me. I also might switch over to 3acc's soon, but mine is a pvp build so it is different in that regard.

Regarding the fitness pool: I respecced out of health and picked up swift. The healing regen bonus is unobservable with rad aura and the sleep resistance is also pretty much covered by AM (which shortens the duration of all mezzes I think by nearly half). Against tough enemies, or in pvp, if I am put to sleep I just use a bf because I can't risk the time it takes for health to let me out of it.
Plus AM and swift stack nicely and make you run at a respectable pace.

I also put acrobatics pretty early in my build because getting knocked down really sucks.

I really like freezeray slotted: 2acc,2hold,2recharge but have also used it with 3hold and 1rech. Either way lets me perma hold +3bosses with a bit of overlap. This is important to me because a +3 boss will hit through rad infect with ease. The best case I can make for this is when fighting a council warwolve. Their ranged attacks will take off half your life and stun you. Also their melee will take of nearly 80% of your life, also they don't slow . So perma mezzing is the only way to go for me.
This could change with the PPP holds available as stacking holds will be much easier.

I also slot rad infect: 3tohitdebuff, 3defdebuff as I hate missing against higher level enemies. I could easily see changing one of the defdebuffs to an end reduc though if that was an issue for someone.

I also slot rad aura: 3heal, 1rech, 1end. That brings it up every ~3.5seconds (with am+hasten) and heals me for ~20%.

Rad aura and AM are what actually sold me on this set because everything else a /cold can accomplish to an equal or greater degree. I love my self heal and AM!!!

Very good guide, you nailed pretty much everything. All my differences stem from a pvp perspective mainly.

Frosticus

Fair enough TiredTanker, but when I7 comes /em will probably have a hard time stunning melee toons anyway unless they are sonic/em's that take screech and stun. Which I think is fine because way too many /em blasters use the borked toggle drops to trump melee toons.

My experience with /elec's havoc punch and charged brawl tell me that bonesmasher and energy punch don't actually need to stun at all to be effective, but just to be clear I never said to drop the stuns from the set (just adjust them on powers that can be abused and frequently are such as bonesmasher)

Regarding the one shot boss mez of Total focus, I still think it is unnecessary. My /elec got along just fine fighting on invincible even before shocking grasp, which combined with freeze ray lets me lock a boss. I can certainly tell you that I don't lead with thunderstrike (which is our similar power to TF), during that 3.3second animation I am way too vulnerable. To maximize the buff period of build up and/or aim TS and TF are best used as finishers imo.

If an /em blaster is leading off with TF to mez the boss (such as powerboost+TF) and can survive that animation time then they could conceivably survive using the stun power prior to TF (especially if stun received a reworked animation of around 1second to compensate the adjustment). Additionally, said blaster is not very bright if they are fighting a mezzing boss and they don't use some kind of mez protection proactively such as a bf, clear mind, clarity etc. and is just asking for debt if they rely on mezzing the boss before they get mezzed (especially with a 3.3 second power necessary to do it).

I agree that many blasters are attracted to /em because of the stun potential. If stuns were the absolute attraction though, we would see more sonic/em's because they can stun like there is no tomorrow. Many are also attracted because everybody talks it up so much and has made it FOTM (or even FOTyear).

Imo powerboost is the set defining power of /em, but that is just what I think

Overall though I think STUNS are what people have a problem with when facing an /em and rightly so, they are really powerful. The whining won't stop until /em gets nerfed, some people start salivating when they think about how they would nerf /em to get back at some blasters who have owned them repeatedly.

I'm just trying to think of a constructive way to appease the masses without gimping a nice set. Devs prefer to nerf rather than buff.

Finally, if blasters started dropping /em en masse because of a percentage change to bonesmasher, energy punch and a slight mag reduction on TF then those same people will drop the set come I7 when they can't 1-2shot mez melee AT's because of the new tog drop system.

Frosticus

/em for blasters is with out a doubt a very good set. Every power is potentially useful (even stun, though who needs it with so many other powers that stun lol).

I personally think /em is balanced by the fact that you have to run around with pink fists all the time, just like spines is balanced around having off-white spikes all over your body (why can't spines look like thorny assault?).

Seriously though /em is so popular for blasters because it is strong, but more importantly because people hear it is the bomb and clamor to it like flies on a dead body.

I can't comment on any blaster secondaries other than /em and /elec, but /elec is 95% as effective in pvp and just as powerful in pve imo (if combined with a primary that compliments it with a hold). If the devs want to make /elec=/em then drop lightning field (ya blasters really need a taunt aura lol) and put in charge up (charge up=power boost).

I see no reason to nerf the damage portion of any AT that has /em, but the multiple stuns could be looked at in some of the constantly used powers like bonesmasher (my squishy says it is more than 50% ) and energy punch. TF should keep its mag3 stun, but maybe reduce its potential of landing a mag4 because it is almost a guaranteed mag 4 right now and one shot mezzing a boss shouldn't be in a blasters arsenal. This would also make the power "stun" more attractive instead of just a skippable power.

If the stuns on /em were adjusted across all AT's a bit, then I think non-/em's would be satisfied, while not really negatively impacting the performace of the /em user in pvp or pve. This in conjuction with some general improvements to the blaster secondaries that warrant it could create a more diverse blaster population, especially in pvp.

Just my feelings about an acceptable consession on the matter.

Frosticus

When the toggle drop adjustment comes into play (not really a nerf because it is a relic from when the game was quite different) blaster /em will lose a great deal of its performance. When I observe /em blasters in action they definately seem to rely heavily on stunning all opponents (even melee) in 2 hits. Bonesmasher +energy punch= many dropped toggles and a pretty solid chance to stun.

While /em's damage output will stay more or less the same, the fact that AT's with mez protection will usually be able to react and move instead of just standing there and taking the quick death beating should make people feel better about /em's. Rather than fumbling for a bf and a green just to get away, more melee AT's will be able to eat a green and actually fight back, which will be a marked change for many /em blappers.

Of course I still standby the advice of moving around whenever any toon comes at you with aim and/or buildup.

Good /em blappers won't need the toggle drops to kill though and their performance should remain impressive. However, with sooooo many /em blappers out there right now I find it hard to believe they are all good pvp'ers (especially after fighting many of them with my ice/elec and my ice/rad corr), but that is the nature of a FOTM: everybody and their dog has one.

I personally see no problems with the /em set that require any negative adjustments. Is it the best blaster secondary? Right now it is, partly because the stuns work very well with the current toggle drop system and partly because so many pvp'ing blasters are using it that it is bound to have success stories.

In its current form /elec can actually abuse the toggle drop system too: shocking grasp+havoc punch+charged brawl= more than likely held melee toon. But that combo is only available in Warburg and higher and you don't see many elec's (at least on freedum).

I personally try to avoid exploiting the current system (though even the most devout have occasional slip-ups ) and as such I welcome the toggle drop changes because it should help to create a more entertaining battlefield.

Hopefully, the new TD system won't make /em feel so un-uber that the next FOTM becomes /elec. . I really enjoy being one of the rare /elec's out there fighting the good fight. Though I don't see it happening because the stuns still make it a squishy destroyer.

As always this is just my opinion, take it as you will
Frosticus

[ QUOTE ]
Blaster AT damage mod vs. Scrapper AT damage mod means nothing. The base damage of the actual attacks is what matters. How about we compare a non-crit Tier 9 Scrapper attack to a Blapper's Total Focus? The Scrapper will not come out on top by 12.5% on that test, I assure you.

[/ QUOTE ]

No they really won't, but compare it in relative terms where we assume they are fighting one another. Seeing as how you picked the single top melee attack that blasters have approx 9.9Bi (next best being thunderstrike at 8.26Bi) we should compare it to the best tier 9 scrapper attack, headsplitter approx 7.2Bi (normalized at 7.2x1.125= 8.1) or basically equal to thunderstrike from /elec manip

who's health bar is going to be impacted more from the other person's attack? The scrapper with 1600+ hp's (with dullpain cause aren't all scrapper /regin , or the blaster with 1050hps?

Also headsplitter recharges in about 70%of the time it takes Tf or thunderstrike to recharge.

Time is always an advantage of the scrapper in comparison to the blaster. The blaster MUST kill quickly or become greatly dissadvantaged against virtually every other AT in the game. Thus any AT that can prolong a fight with a blaster gains more and more of the upper hand (at least until aim and bu recharge ) because of their non-damage powers becoming more useful over time.

You want to be more successful against blappers? Back off the second they attack you regardless of whether you saw them hit aim+buildup. Every AT in the game (except mm currently) can survive a fair number of attacks from any blaster that is not buffed by aim and/or build up. Just create some distance, for a few seconds while they waste their buff time, you often (but not always) will gain the upper hand once they are no longer buffed.

That's what my experience tells me anyway.

I would also be interested in seeing the stats on /energy manip vs /elec manip. /elec is much rarer, but they are very comparable in terms of damage, with /elec potentially coming out ahead. If /em is significantly ahead of /elec then the stuns need to be looked at and possibly addressed, but that would go for all AT's that have access to one form of /em or another.

Frosticus

Experience tells me that scrappers crit more in the range of 15% in pvp, cause it happens to me quite often. But, that is purely subjective so feel free to dismiss it.

Blaster that rely on toggle drops to be effective will take a servere hit in pvp. Good, they deserve it as do stalkers that love using the broken aoe nature of placate. Neither change will hurt a good player in the least.

How do I feel about nerfing /em. I guess I would accept a decrease in their ability to stack stuns. Like 20%on bonesmasher, 10%on energy punch kinda deal. Keep TF and the stun power as is though. This would have to be for all AT's that have access to /em though to be fair.

Really though, I don't have a problem with /em as is right now.

Give /em blasters energy transfer and then there would be cries of doooooom. And why not? they have more hp's than stalkers so would potentially be better candidates for the power. Plus ET would help blasters activate and utilize their dev given inherent lol . (please don't respond to this paragraph, it is purely in jest).

Tog dropping is already being adjusted in I7, but sadly unless it is completely removed (which it isn't) there will still be people that whine about it happening to them. Think about it, when TD's get adjusted melee AT's will think they have to bring bf's along even less against a blapper. So then when they eventually get mezzed during the match they will cry doooom again.

Lastly, a well played spine/regin should really never lose to even a well played ice/em blaster. They hop around just as much as the blaster, do dot damage thus making aid self harder to use, crit occasionally, have massive hp's, a non-inturruptable heal, use pre-emptive bf's, and have high damage (though not neccessarily as high as the blaster).
Nerf teh spine/regin? No thank you, it is just a powerful offensive pvp combo that makes the battle field more fun.

Just like /em stalkers, /blappers, ice/em tanks, angry(bit of fury) /em or /SS brutes, broadsword scraps etc. etc.

High damage AT's are here to stay in pvp. Good players will always make them look incredible, just like bad players will make them look silly. Adjust, learn, adapt. Look at your play style/build and see what changes you can make to ensure that you have a better chance against your toughest opponents, rather than maximize your potential against toons that you already pummel. Difersify yourself instead of developing your nerfing skills. In all fairness, somethings are broken and need to be fixed, but pages and pages of nerf this nerf that gets old quickly.

Just my opinion
Frosticus

Sounds like most are complaining about the mez potential of /em for blasters. /elec, which would be the second biggest culprit has some >1second sleeps and powerful knockback, but hardly anything to write home about.

/em in all forms that AT's have access to causes problems for many people it is a very strong set.

The biggest problem that I have when fighting melee toons with my ice/elec is their stuborn attitude that they can just stand there and take my full alpha attack chain. Just move around for even a few seconds (doesn't even have to be the full 9seconds) suddenly our damage potential decreases dramatically for every second that we are not attacking while under the buff of aim and bu.

Any toon in the game hits aim or bu and I move around for a few seconds to minimize their effectiveness. It is really not complicated, or even hard to execute.

To address toggle dropping in the blaster secondaries: I don't play to rely on it. Meaning I don't fire off freeze ray then havoc punch them so they are held (I've done it to one scrapper and it was stupidly easy). /em blasters get more effect out of it because of the stuns and will thus be impacted the most by the changes.

I will be the first to admit that toggle dropping for blasters is overpowered right now (having both received and handed out beatings from the mechanic). That being said, even when they adjust TD's /em and /elec blasters are still gonna be killing like wild animals.

Whether your togs drop or not the damage output that some blaster builds can pull off while under the buff of aim+bu is scary. I'm not saying you have to move around like you do to avoid stalkers, simply move a bit when a blaster lines you up. If he has bright pink fists, chow a bf and take a few evasive steps for a few seconds.

The only time my blaster or corruptor get killed by blappers is if they blind side me while i'm stuck in a long animation or attacking someone else. If they get two good melee hits off they can usually finish me with range. That is with a squishy and a squishy+a few hp's, if I had meat shield hps like a brute, tank, or dull pained scrapper I don't really see any reason to die from a blapper alpha unless you stand there like a fool, or think that you are somehow above eating bf's. Even when they reduce TD's melee AT's will still get stunned or mezzed from blasters.

Adapt to the overpowered mechanic now and you will be even stronger once it is adjusted in your favor.

That is what my experience tells me on the matter anyway, take it as you will

@Sufferance: Crying? maybe a strong term, but the thread title is, "Placate nerf" and the affects that it will have. It isn't a nerf though that is the thing. It is a bug fix to prevent the exploitation of an unintended power effect. Besides, a good stalker would not have needed to rely upon this glitch anyway. My comment about tohit debuffs getting nerfed was to show what an actual nerf looks like (in this patch at least).


That being said, the Grant Invis nerf is kind of interesting and is what I am paying attention to. Though it is a global AT nerf, it will affect pvp stalkers the most I think

It must be reapplied to gain the stealth benefit from it after a stalker (or anyone I assume with GI on them) attacks. Think about the work necessary to keep a stalker at the stealth cap now.

So previously placate was rehiding a stalker against many people within a certain range( ie. AOE PLACATE), I noticed this once when a non-hidden stalker was testing with a few of us. When he placated the scrapper my blaster lost sight of him too.

Sounds like they fixed a bug that was making a power work in a manner that was not intended.

If you want to cry about something, cry about how they just nerfed my ice/rad corr and how everybody will be able to hit through rad infection now (maybe).