FourSpeed

[ QUOTE ]
Selling (insert your item here) to the vendor removes that item from the game, an item that someone may have actually wanted. This isn't always the case, especially with slow sets and immob sets, but there is at least one Arbitrage guide that tells you to go after common IO's, which there is obvious demand for. Selling something to the vendor also creates influence in the world that wasn't there before.

Therefore, you are removing commodities from the game world, and devaluing the currency of the game world by basically printing money that didn't exist instead of getting money that already existed from another character for your commodity.

[/ QUOTE ]

With all due respect, this mode of thinking is completely wrong.

While it is technically correct that vendoring an item removes it from the game, it is
also correct that normal play creates new, cost-free ones as well.... Kill a mob, poof,
an item frequently, magically, appears from thin air.

Second, with respect to a common IO recipe, it is actually physically impossible within
the game mechanic to eliminate the supply. If every single player decided to buy every
common EndMod recipe from the market, and I want one 5 minutes after that happens,
I can *buy* one (or a dozen) immediately from a crafting table at a fixed price the devs
already consider reasonable. Same with SO's, DO's and TO's, created for my convenience
out of thin air by the store whenever I need...

Third, vendoring creates "money that didn't exist". Yep, that's true... So does playing
the game in normal fashion. On the other side of the coin, buying from a vendor removes
money that did exist. Market fees also remove money that already exists, as do tailors.

These raise the value of influence. I'm not seeing a problem here except, possibly in
terms of fine-tuning and balance - something I'd expect the devs to evaluate periodically.

Arbitrage tends to be an equalizing factor, not a destabilizing one imho.


Regards,
4

[ QUOTE ]
Now the last thing I really need to know before I make my first billion is what IO's
are the desirable ones and which aren't.

[/ QUOTE ]

One rule of thumb: If it's an IO you'd like to slot on more than one of your own characters,
odds are pretty good that others will too...

Other rule of thumb: Most folks want more endurance, hitpoints, and faster recharge on
nearly all of their toons... Guess which IO's sell well...


Cheers,
4

[ QUOTE ]
Now also, so far every time I try to tesla cage a boss it fails, even with BU/aim...
Am I missing something here? How does this mechanic work?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bosses require more than a single hold to lock them down. Hence the need to double
stack Cage or use it with another hold as others suggest.

Also, Short Circuit along with Ball Lighting and a couple extra shots can drain a boss
down so it can't fire as often, which helps a lot - even before getting power sink.

Finally, an important thought (in my mind) for all blasters is aggro management - especially
when coming from an AT like a Tanker which often doesn't even think about that.

Plan your battles a bit and be selective about when and who you attack, so you don't
aggro more than you can handle and things will go noticeably better, I think...

Unlike your tank, remember that thou art squishy and taste good with ketchup


Regards,
4

#9

Well Done!

Regards,
4

[ QUOTE ]
The first 'scheme' I ever worked on the market was vendoring recipes. I'd put in bids
on ten stacks of level 50 IO recipes then run them to the Mutant store in Steel Canyon.

Nothing wrong with it at all, but for me the profits didn't justify the labor.

[/ QUOTE ]

My "active" toons still do that at the start and end of each session.

I could have sworn I saw that technique in a guide somewhere....


Cheers,
4


PS> The rate calculated from the guide charts was ~1.6M-3.6M / game hour
on a toon with less than 10 mkt slots. Easily double that rate for a higher level
character...

[ QUOTE ]
Firstly, when I started a Peacebringer I found the plethora of choices far too complex.
So I simply focused on a human build. I had the expectation that once I was more familiar I'd
use my build 2 to create a triform.

[/ QUOTE ]

No offense intended, but I stopped reading here.

Personally, for me, the defining part of being a Kheld is the forms. The human powers
are weaker (early) and contribute, I think, to a basic sense of "Kheld's ... meh" when
compared to other AT's a player probably experienced on the road to L50.

So, my advice would be:
<ul type="square">[*] Read some guides to get a sense of the AT[*] Determine from those guides which build(s) tend to play similarily to AT's you liked[*] Dive in[*] Ask questions on the forum if things seem unclear[/list]That's how I approached it, and it's also the approach I'd recommend to others.

That said, I'm a big fan of having fun and playing whichever way works, so if this helps
somebody with their Kheld - that's all the better.


Regards,
4

[ QUOTE ]
I tossed Kismet Accuracy proc in to Maneuvers and if I toggle on Maneuvers
and stand there, I never see it proc on the logs.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is just off the top of my head, so feel free to take it with as much "salt" as appropriate.

I don't think Kismet puts out log notes and I'm not even sure it procs like the others.

My understanding is that once it's slotted, you've got the Acc across the board at all times.

To verify this (were I at my game computer), I'd open up the powers and check the
"attributes" (or /toggleCombatNumbers ???). I believe you'll see the 6% from Kismet
listed as part of the accuracy attribute.


Regards,
4

[ QUOTE ]
I think your experimental data winds up omitting the effect of the occasional
more valuable recipes, which shows up much more strongly once you go beyond 20 recipes.
I've produced in excess of 160 million influence this way over less than a week as the result
of playing arcs with some characters in the 40s

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure it does. The Big Sellers can only improve the picture (read skew the data) significantly.
However, they do that across any level range where you can get them, and you'd want to
calculate the probabilities within those ranges to see if some are more optimal for those rolls
or not, if maximum profit is the goal. That was well beyond of the scope of what I wanted
to learn in this exercise.

The point of my data (for me at least) was to document that even "average" recipes
can still turn a tidy sum, and depending on the rationale in my prior post, may be well
worth doing for certain playstyles and characters. I also wanted to get a sense of the
effort/time needed to achieve that profit without crossing my fingers and hoping for a
Big Hitter.

As for you exceeding ticket cap even with Silver rolls, I'd submit that it probably doesn't
matter which level range you're rolling in at that point - with that many recipes going
through the "production line" it's bound to be profitable unless the sales end is mishandled.

As a second point for you regarding ranges, it sounds like you're churning through a lot
more rolls than me. Perhaps you could document your P/L results in those level ranges
and answer your own question about which range s more profitable on average.

I for one would be interested in hearing your results.


Regards,
4

[ QUOTE ]
Actually I didn't create that phrase but it might have been created to describe my attitude. I make my money with patience, ruthless efficiency, statistics and mathematical analysis. I spend my money spontaneously, recklessly and with no regard for its value.

*EDIT* Actually now that I think about it I think I did make that phrase

[/ QUOTE ]


lol - thanks for the chuckle of the day...

[ QUOTE ]
Since I do play a bit more, I'm capable of finding that my characters are running low
on enhancement slots using bronze rolls, leaving me with tickets to sink.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an interesting issue, and one I've not answered for myself, but I'll happily speculate now.

Given the results from this particular (unexciting) batch, and not using any probability math,
I'd guess that most level ranges will probably be profitable to some degree or other
if these ones are.

There is no doubt in my mind that you can easily generate enough tickets in a single
play session currently to create several market cycles of: roll, craft, sell (a dozen recipes
only cost 780 tickets in the Bronze category). Even if half of them are junk (only 1/3rd of
mine were, in this case), a few thousand tickets will set you to batch crafting for days...

Excluding any Big Seller rolls, I'd speculate that 7 average Bronze recipes will earn more
than 1 average Silver (iirc it costs roughly 7X more tickets to roll on the Silver table),
so Bronze is probably more profitable in the long term for a given number of tickets.

However, this leads to some issues, which make it better suited for casual, limited-time,
players than it does for more active players (unless they have SG's and lots of
storage, etc).

First problem: You can easily hit the ticket cap before you can finish all the craft/sell
cycles from the first AE session, if you run AE missions even a few times a week. With
limited ticket holdings, and even more limited transaction slots, you're in the position
where you need some combination of: base storage, fewer tickets or fewer recipes or
faster sales. How do you juggle that easily?

2nd problem: You're getting 7X the recipes from Bronze, but are they 7X more profitable
than the Silvers? My guess is no... So, is 7X the work worth 2X or even 3X the profit by
rolling Silver?

3rd problem: Big Hitters. I've not analyzed this at all, but Catwhoorg rightly points out
(earlier) that these items skew the results big-time. If I spend 3500 tickets to roll gold and
get something that sells for 85M, does that beat the profit from 50+ Bronze recipes I didn't
get? Probably. If my 10M is representative for the 20 recipes I rolled, then those 50 net
me around 25M or so - nice, but well under the Big Seller.

Of course, if I roll gold and get a Perfect Zinger instead, that 25M looks pretty darned
good by comparison...

I think, on volume, you're likelier to find a sellable recipe in a batch of 50 than you are in a
batch of one, but if you hit the right one, it may be more valuable than *all* of the 50.

In the end, I think it comes down to a few points:<ul type="square">[*]How much do you play? ... ie. how likely are you to cap tickets or need market slots?
If you're only on once or twice a week, the Bronze "production line" may be ideal. If you're
on every day and/or run a lot of AE or do a lot of Marketing, the Bronze line may be *too*
productive to easily manage in terms of profit/crafting and sales effort.[*]What are tickets to you? Are you trying to supply your toons with IO's using them?
If so, stay Bronze or Silver - you're pretty much bound to get stuff you can slot.[*] What's your risk tolerance? How pissy would you be if the 3500 tix gets you vendor trash?
If you can cap tickets every day, maybe it doesn't bother you at all, but if you only make a
couple thousand, maybe you'd be more insistent about making *some* profit from it.[*]How rich are you? If you've got a billion or two, is that 10M a week worth the trouble?
Do you rely on tickets for inf, or are they simply a by-product of amusing yourself in the AE?
If the latter, why not take a shot at gold every couple days and not worry if it hits or not?[/list]
For me personally, the Bronze is an oversupply - I play nearly every day and I can make
more influence with other market methods in that same timeframe.

That said, I think I have some rarely used alts that may spin a few AE missions - it'll put
their slots to good use while I'm playing other toons...

I'm sure other folks will approach it differently depending on their particular circumstances.


Regards,
4


PS&gt; Wow - I type too much... Sorry for the (extremely) long-winded post (had no idea it
was this long till I started proof-reading it).

[ QUOTE ]
Now here's a question. Is it worth the money to get the crafter badge so I can
summon a crafting table?

[/ QUOTE ]

It might be, but like most things, it depends (imho). I will point out that you don't actually
*need* the summoned table for anything. You can craft (using base or university or lab),
and you can memorize recipes without it also. Here are some considerations that might
make it worthwhile to you however.
<ul type="square">[*] There are a lot of crafting badges, so getting those may be "worth it" to you, and the
table is one of them, and a logical culmination to several of the others as well.[*] Several of the badges increase the number of recipes and salvage your toon can hold[*] Memorizing certain recipes is a requirement for the table, but whether you get the table
or not, you save recipe and crafting costs for *any* recipes you do memorize (you can only
memorize common IO's btw)[*] You can often make a profit on many of the IO's you're crafting while memorizing, although
some are just throw-aways (which you can skip altogether if you don't want the table)[*] If you're part of an SG or VG, having all those IO's memorized is pretty cost effective
if you start making IO's for your other toons and SG members.[*] Not every market zone has a Lab or University, so it can be handy having the table
in that case.[/list]I have a single villain and a single hero that each have the table, and some of those uses
are convenient, but more often than not, I usually just end up using the base for crafting.

That said, the villain has made hundreds of millions just crafting memorized common IO's
whether the table was summoned to do it, or not...


Regards,
4

[ QUOTE ]
how many tickets did it cost per roll?

[/ QUOTE ]
For the particular range I used (Bronze L25-29) the recipes are 65 tickets each, and,
if I recall, they bump up to 70 tickets each at the next range (L30-34).

[ QUOTE ]
So thank you!

[/ QUOTE ]
You're quite welcome.
I undertook this to satisfy my own curiosity about tickets, but if it can help someone
else, so much the better.


Regards,
4

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
eh might be the quietist but at least help is always there from experienced stalkers...

*runs back into the shadows*

[/ QUOTE ]

You actually needed to come out of the shadows to talk? Newbie Stalker!

[/ QUOTE ]

Real stalkers learn to converse normally while still being completely invisible. It freaks out the target a lot more that way.

[/ QUOTE ]

I used to do that to people in SC all the time. Say hi, ask them how they're doing. It was hilarious how twitchy they'd get after that.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's Big Fun in Bloody Bay too


4

Ok, it's been a week since I made the Bronze rolls, and enough results are in to post.

To recap, I rolled up 20 recipes in the Bronze L25-29 range. I vendored 7 of them, and
crafted and listed the other 13. As of yesterday evening, 8 of those 13 have sold for a
net profit a little north of 9.1 Million. The highest priced shiny went for 3.33M and the
lowest sold for 200K. The remaining 5 are listed between 100K and 1M and will probably
add another 1-2M to the bottom line.

So, even with fairly average stuff, it's pretty profitable, albeit slow. The perk is that it's
easy to get enough tickets in a single play session to roll a few dozen recipes, and it's
hands off once the recipes are crafted, so, the process can be easily run in batches.

For that mythical casual gamer who doesn't play much, rolling some Bronze recipes
can make them a nice little nest egg while their character is idle using this approach.

As always, YMMV.


Regards,
4


Revenue:

..... 22,000 (Vendored recipes)
11,833,333 (Marketed recipes)
--------------
11,855,333 Total

Costs

1,183,333 (10% Sales Fees)
.. 809,258 (Salvage - 1 rare item was 411,111 of that total)
.. 692,400 (Crafting - all but 2 were 48,200 to craft)
--------------
2,684,991 Total

Profit

9,170,342 (so far)

-QR-

I haven't looked at this issue in a long time, but in I4 I wrote a PB guide that was form-centric.

The build worked fine then, and with sets and IO's, easier voids, level smoothing, and team
buffs which actually apply to your forms (they didn't back then), I can't imagine it would
be anything but even easier these days...

Basically, it played as a pretty strong blaster (nova), a pretty effective pocket tank (in Dwarf)
with a handful of clickie Defender-ish buffs from the med pool.

So, yeah - have at it. I found it a very playable build.


Regards,
4

[ QUOTE ]
Are you getting tired of the game nerfs? If so, plaese speak your mind here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's see... I went through Burn Tanker nerf (in Beta), Purple Patch, ED and GDN...

This??? This is nothing... Heck, I've barely even run any AE missions at all...

My most MArc active toon has amassed... ~4000 tickets - total...

This isn't even on my radar yet...


Regards,
4

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...That's *not* stoked about Going Rogue? For me, I see less pros and more cons. Like, if defenders make their way to villains, corruptors will most likely be ignored. People will prefer Tankers to Brutes. Am I just being overly-negative?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not stoked until I know more. If side switching involves sacrificing badges/levels/whatever then I won't care for it. Also we have no idea what content beyond side switching this will hold. So waiting and seeing.

Also brutes are what scrappers should have been, not evil tanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Put me in this camp too.

Until there is actual information about it, it's on par with my gf telling me she went shopping
and got a new blouse.

My Response? "That's nice, dear" (as I turn my attention back to the Forum)

Same for Going Rogue. "That's nice, Devs" (call me when you're sharing actual information)


Cheers,
4

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Guys post this kinda of stuff, and now I know why the methods I used when this market first came out just aren't profitable. Nice job moron. This is one of those things that once a more then a handful try to utilize it, it just isn't as effective.

[/ QUOTE ]lol, you do realize this guide was posted almost seven months ago, right? And it's not the only one of its kind? In fact, there are other guides with more information contained in them? And that getting big profits off the market is not rocket science, and many people figured it out without a guide? This just makes it more accessible to those less inclined toward marketeering (*raises hand*).

[/ QUOTE ]

@EarthDragon.

Not only what Aggelakis said, but as the author of said guide, I keep a pretty close eye on
the subject of it...

It *still* works just as well as the day I wrote it - either side, any level.

If you read some of the early dissenting posts that claimed the same DOOM, you'd find that
my responses outline exactly *why* it doesn't happen...

I won't say it can't ever occur - goodness knows what the Devs might change, but even with
I13 merits, which effectively killed all but L50 IO supply and I14 AE tickets which tanked
salvage (prior to the most recent changes), this method has been chugging along very
nicely, thank you very much...


Regards,
4

[ QUOTE ]
after 3 /petition's for a GM to get us into an ITF door and getting canned replys I gave up.
Besides if I did it each and every time it locked someone on the team outside ti would be about
a 100 tickets by now.

[/ QUOTE ]

While that may be seriously frustrating on your end, 100 tickets on a recurring issue
might fuel the fire enough to get an actual human being to look at it on theirs...

Additionally, /bug provides quite a bit of additional game information (as I understand
it), so perhaps, those reports could potentially help identify a pattern to the problem.


Regards,
4

[ QUOTE ]
Don't take that comment as a dismissal, if there is one thing we like here is well presented data.

I for one would examine intently.

[/ QUOTE ]

np. I didn't take it negatively at all.

If there's actual interest, I'll happily present the data once I have it. I'd have been tracking
it (this time) for my own curiosity anyway, and in fact, to Santorican's point, it may well
give me thoughts on whether to continue with Bronze rolls or change level ranges etc.

TopDoc, for instance, had a thread about Silver rolls are for suckers (implying it's not an
optimal return?), and others have chimed in that Bronze rolls might actually produce
too many recipes to be conveniently managed, so they roll Silver, or even Gold.

Basically, I'm wondering myself how it's going to turn out (for my playstyle).


Regards,
4

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, its the 'gems' that affect the data the most.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, that makes perfect sense. Outliers of that magnitude definitely (and substantially)
skew the averages.

Mostly, as my first foray into ticket rolls, I'm just satisfying my own curiosity as to what
(ballpark) returns I'd get on, what looks to be a fairly average sample, and I thought
I'd share the results.

Outlier rolls would only serve as a boost to average results compared to what I'll get here.

That said, if there's no interest (or more importantly, value) in sharing the results of what
these sell for, I'm ok with letting this post fade away into oblivion and simply track it
personally (and quietly).


Regards,
4

[ QUOTE ]
Why 25-29? Does not 30-34 have better enhancements then that level range?

[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly? I have no idea.

I poked around in a few threads on the topic and the gist I got (wrongly perhaps?)
said Bronze &lt; L30 seemed to be a pretty decent spot. Pre-craft / sell, I'm inclined
to agree.

That said, I'll track this batch and determine actual profit made as a simple data point.

So far, the P/L looks (loosely) like this:

Revenue:

22K (Vendored the trash - 7 Recipes)
??? (Sold the crafted shinies)
---------------------

Costs:

626K (Expected Crafting Cost ... 48.2K * 13)
??? (Salvage Costs - all salvage will be bought from mkt and tracked)
??? (10% Sales Fees from sold shinies)
-----------------------

As those numbers become clear, I'll fill in the ???.

This isn't trying to min/max anything. It's a simple case of "Take 20 rolls, craft and sell, and
find out how much this returns".

This looks like a fairly average batch, so I'd expect to get a fairly average ballpark idea on
the value of doing it.


Regards,
4



Sales: 22K (vendored), ??? (Sold)
Minus: ~625K (expected crating

Well, I finally got around to jumping on the AE Ticket Roll bandwagon...

So, if anyone is compiling statistical roll data, here are the 20 (L25-L29 Bronze) rolls I made
on an L31 Widow. Nothing fantabulous, but at first glance, it looks like a decent enough haul
given the effort put forth.


1. Calibrated Accuracy (A/D/R) ............ 11. Harmonized Healing H/E/R
2. Dampened Spirits (R/E) ................... 12. Kinetic Crash (R/E)
3. Dampened Spirits (ToHDB) ............... 13. Maelstrom's Fury (A/D)
4. Dampened Spirits (ToHDB/E/R) ......... 14. Maelstrom's Fury (D/R)
5. Detonation (D/R) ............................ 15. Mocking Beratement (Taunt)
6. Far Strike (D/Rng) .......................... 16. Perplex (A/R)
7. Focused Smite (A/D) ....................... 17. Paralytic (A/Hold/R)
8. Focused Smite (D/R) ....................... 18. Reactive Armor (E/Res)
9. Gaussian's (Chance for Build-Up) ....... 19. Titanium Coating (E/R/Res)
10. Gift of the Ancients (Def/E) ............ 20. Undermined Defense (R/E)


Cheers,
4

[ QUOTE ]
So the Pingus turn 4 years old this month, and I like the number 4, so I think we should have us a nice, big party.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am FourSpeed and I approve this message!


Cheers,
4

-QR-

A couple more thoughts I'll toss out there for OP at this level range...

Maneuvers &gt; CT: Offensive -- Just take Maneuvers
Another Attack &gt; CT: Offensive

I'm in the Follow-Up over Build Up crowd as well. Treat it like an Attack (it's actually
pretty good). It has decent DPS, helps the entire chain, and often times it can be stacked.

One thing I notice is that you have a lot of slots taken up by Maneuvers, Stamina, CJ, IW.
Personally, I wouldn't have any of them more than 2-slotted at this point (and a couple of
them with just the base slot).

So, I'd reduce those and put them in attacks... (of which you need 1 more for sure,
and better still, two, in addition to Follow-Up).

Later, you'll want to add slots to those things, but early, just having the power is enough
initial boost. On the flip side, no buff is better than simply defeating mobs quickly and efficiently.

Lastly, and this may depend on your bankroll and marketing, consider Frankenslotting
with set IO's - with 4 slots in an attack, using L25 set IO's (say, A/D, A/D, D/RR + common D)
you'll get somewhere in the neighbourhood of 45% Acc, 90% Dmg, and 20% Recharge, which
isn't too shabby for only 4 slots, along with at least one set bonus (Regen or Recovery
isn't a bad little perk).

Basically, you can maximize the core effectiveness of your attacks early - which goes a
long ways to getting rid of enemies quickly. Of course, any more slots you can put there
is even better, but I'd consider 4 minimum in each attack immediately as a high priority
in my builds.

Hope that helps.


Regards,
4