FourSpeed

I still spin my toons on here.

Now that they're at the level caps I intended for them, I don't play them as
often, but when I do, I play with with the mindset of getting merits and AE tickets
for generating craftable/sellable drops.

Also, I'm in AZ (MST) and on late even there, so there's rarely anyone on
during my typical on-time for these toons. I also naturally tend towards
solo play anyway, but these are two exceptions assuming there's anything
going on in-group during my normal play times.


Regards,
4

I disagree on the idea of PvP Merits on two grounds.

1> The Merit system was the beginning of the Market woes we are seeing now.
There are other factors, of course, like AE, but merits started the downhill snowball imho.

The three big factors merits introduced were: Merits *instead* of tf drops -- ie. Posi's
Bait and Switch move away from the original "in addition to" statement.

That was a BIG hit to supply.

Merits being non-tradeable and non-sellable lead directly to hoarding behaviour,
and again, a distinctly reduced supply of items to market.

Finally, the way merit rolls were implemented led directly to a skew towards
higher level players being the largest group of rollers, getting drops at the
top level of the io ranges which is a notable factor in the lack of mid-range
supply.

2> The devs will make the same problematic system with PvP merits.

Typically, you wont get enough of them until high level - a disincentive to
PvP at anything other than L50. PvP is already skewed towards L50 now,
but a PvP merit system would push it even further in that direction.

It will be a dead certainty that PvP merits won't be tradeable either and you'll
get the exact same behaviours that we see in the existing merit system
with the corresponding issues.

No Thanks.

The real problem is (and has been) that the last several major game changes
have directly lead to a> Supply Shortage b> Correspondingly more inf
chasing fewer goods, which is compounded by the L50 inf bug fix, and AE
producing many L50's (that generally spend less inf in the mid levels during
their run to 50).

A PvP Merit system is not going to correct, or even address those core problems
and, imho would just add yet another similar core problem...


Regards,
4

Some interesting replies - Thanks.

The point about filling your role is a good one. My PvP toons are damage
dealers typically, so, my #1 point on kill/ratio really can be interpreted as
"is my toon performing it's role effectively" - I don't play support toons, so
the kill ratio *is* the role for me... A good point though. I agree with it.

I'm also especially pleased to see Supermax's response as a player with just
SO's. You demonstrate the point I was trying to make in the original market
thread. Clearly a toon can be effective with just SO's - for certain AT's,
and certain situations - I agree entirely.

In other scenarios, for some toons, SO's aren't enough. As an analogy, I'm
pretty sure that nobody has won an Olympic cycling event or a Tour de
France with a bike purchased off the shelf at WalMart. But LOTS of people
get from A to B quite regularly with such bikes. That's to say they can
still be used effectively within certain limits and expectations.

Arena matches tend towards more upper tier PvPer's (on average), so I'd
also expect the builds need to be more upper tier as well... Zone, not so
much...

Your experience appears to me to validate the way I was thinking about
the issue.

@Barrier: lol - why am I not surprised?

@Empire Forgotten: You contradict yourself from your stance in the Mkt thread.

To further clarify:

If you build a toon (any toon), and you PvP with it, what criteria would
you consider before you would call it successful at PvP?

A thread in the market forum (of all places) is prompting this query, mostly
because (as I read it) their position appears to be that you need a L50
with IO's (typically sets, if not procs and purples) to be competitive at all...

Personally, I disagree with that position, having several toons that meet
the "success criteria" listed below. Toons count as successful at PvP for
me if they meet the following criteria:

1> Kill Ratio > 1:1 (I kill more than I get killed)

2> The toon is able to gain 400 rep honestly (ie. killing 400+ guys that were
trying not to die)

3> I have more fun than ire when I PvP with it (which is usually true by
default if points 1 and 2 work out).

That might be fairly naive criteria, and you might note that Level and
Enhancements aren't even factors in the equation, so I'm curious to hear
other viewpoints.


Thanks in Advance,
4

Having read that thread and this one, I once again find myself shaking my
head at the utter lack of understanding and simple logic from many of the
posters.

A gedanken experiment - What if:

A> The devs made a change that upped drop rates on everything by a
factor of 1000? Every day, you get 1000X the amount of salvage, recipes,
T/D/SO's and inspirations... Literally clog the system full of goodies...

What would the market prices do?

B> Flip side - The devs cut the drop rate by that factor of 1000... Now you
have to kill 1000X as much just to get 1 insp or 1 salvage, or 1 recipe...

What would prices be in this case?

------------------------------------------------------------------

Did anyone fail that experiment? Is there anybody who cannot actually
see that in Case A, prices would plummet, and everybody would be literally
deleting stuff non-stop just to make room?

Is there anybody who can't actually see that in Case B, prices would go
astronomical? Everything would be rare - anything you get you'd hoard for
simple fear of not being able to get it again. Anybody who has anything
desirable at all would get top dollar for it (probably Off-Market) if they
chose to sell. The market would be literally devoid of items for sale (of
anything not universally considered pure junk).

These are (intentionally) opposite extremes. The nice thing about them is
that there is little doubt what would happen if they were in place.

So, changing one simple thing (drop rates) can span the entire gamut of
results. Not surprising, given it's one of two key drivers in all economics -
supply.

Obviously, the game situation lies between those two points, but given
that PvPIOs are being sold off-market currently, and certain salvage
(Clockwork Winders most recently) are unavailable at times, it seems
we're getting closer to B than A as a result of the past few releases.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with flippers, casual players, inf cap,
inflation, hyper-inflation, RMT, or whatever the latest ebil marketeering
scheme is thought to be happening this week. There is *nothing* we are
currently seeing in the market that is NOT adequately explained by
identifiable game changes and their corresponding effects on economics -
most notably, supply.

It is amusing (in a head-scratching sort of way) to read posts from people
saying that they don't need/want to understand economics, while at the
same time being confident that their "tweaks" to the economics of the
game will solve all the problems.

Unsurprisingly, the proposals from those folks who fail to understand simple
economic factors are typically woefully shortsighted, if not completely
ludicrous.

In other words - a typical day on the forums...


Regards,
4

Color me in the "not necessary" camp.

Roughly, I'd guess that 1/3rd to 1/2 of my toons don't have it. In my opinion,
they're no worse for it's lack.

That said, Stamina will be helpful for just about every AT, and a few
(my Rad/Elec defender for instance) would be darned near unplayable
without it.

Generally speaking, Frankenslotting can go a long ways towards reducing
or possibly eliminating Endurance issues.

Some AT's, like my Stalkers have very deliberate playstyles and don't need
it at all, because they pick and choose their fights under optimal situations...

Several (like my E3 Blaster, my Fire/Ice Tank, my PB's) have End recovery powers
to replenish endurance without any need for Stamina.

A Few (like that Defender, and my Widow) pretty much require it to be effective.

It really comes down to the specific AT/Build and your playstyle. Both of
these greatly affect the perceptional need (and perhaps actual need) for
Stamina.

tl:dr version: It Depends...


Regards,
4

As a player that has a couple NB stalkers, I'm inclined to agree...

I'm not sure I'd say "trash" per se, but I definitely wouldn't say "great" either.

You can make it work, but it has the drawbacks of resisted damage type
and a complete lack of anything ranged. Due to the first drawback (you
won't do as much dmg as you like), you'd want/need ranged to finish the guy
off if/when he runs, but then you get bitten by the 2nd drawback - no range.

Defensively, Divine Avalance does help in extended melee fights (vs
certain Scrappers, Tanks etc.), but you won't get that far in battles
where burst damage rules (ie. vs Blasters and the like), and it is
nowhere near as helpful in PvP as it is in PvE in any case.

If you're not already vested in an NB build, I wouldn't start one for PvP.
That said, I wouldn't shy away from playing it if you have levelled one though.


Regards,
4

Two words: Dual Builds

Play the first build human only til your heart's content.

Play the other build as a triform (or whatever).

You'll get a great basis for direct comparison that way all in the same toon...


GL & Have Fun!


Regards,
4

I've got one in the mid L20's that I built purely for concept/story.

I solo virtually all of my AT's, and this one is no exception. I agree with the
ST attacks/holds for a solo player though. The AT plays like a weak blaster
to me in some ways.

Still, sensible difficulty setting and reasonable aggro management make it a "fair"
solo toon. It's neither as fast or as durable as many, but it's not the worst, or
even especially problematic if you're reasonably careful and deliberate in your
playstyle.

I've had a pretty good experience with mine (so far). If you like the toon,
I wouldn't worry to much about levelling speed...

That said, you might also want to build something else that you can switch
to periodically if its deliberate pace does begin to bother you...


Regards,
4

To clarify a little bit:

If you slot: Bruising Blow: Acc/Dmg and Bruising Blow: Dmg/Rch into a
power, you will get the bonus (1% recovery, I think).

You CAN also slot another pair of Bruising Blow: Acc/Dmg, Dmg/Rch in a
*different* power and get another 1% recovery bonus as well...

You can get the same bonus up to a maximum of 5 times.

You CANNOT slot Bruising Blow: Acc/Dmg twice in the *same* power.

If you slot: Bruising Blow: Acc/Dmg in one power and Bruising Blow: Dmg/Rch
in a different power you don't get any bonus at all... bonuses apply for
multiple IO's of a set in the same power. You just can't repeat IO's within
that power.


Regards,
4

Gah! Double Post...

MLC - Redside Update

In the absence of any direction on my prior post, and confronted with full
salvage racks, I made a proactive/executive/flunky decision to keep no
more than 5 of any specific salvage item.

After re-sorting, the following "excess" items were liquidated (listed for 11
on BM and sold ... vendored if they didn't sell after 5-10 mins).

1 Boresight, 1 Brass, 1 Circuit Board, 1 Clockwork Winder, 3 Human Blood
Samples, and 3 Improvised Cybernetics.

Net Proceeds (after fees) were: 13,332

This is "group" influence that:

A> Could be converted to Prestige
B> Kept in escrow for players that need some cash (I'm more than willing
to track this amount going forward as it grows)
C> ??? Whatever the group wants to do with it.

With that in mind, I'd advocate the following ideas.

A> If you're adding salvage to the racks, keep/sell it if we already have 5
of that particular item. If you'd rather not deal with it, chuck it in the racks
and I'll take care of it at the next sorting trip, and tally it here.

B> If it's rare (orange) keep it in your Vault. I'd prefer to avoid the "responsibility"
of managing million inf salvage (other than my own)

C> If you need some salvage to craft - grab it... That's the point of having it.

D> We could use a few more salvage racks - I'd volunteer to manage
them, if you like, but currently, I don't have the "power" to add any.


Finally, I'm only doing this is on red-side currently - If folks want the salvage
kept organized on blue-side, let me know...

The reason I'm doing this in the first place is my OCD pings red when I
have to look in *every* rack to find 1 piece of specific salvage to craft
something - so, for me, organizing it is easier than obsessing over it.


Regards,
4

That's a painful one. Have some sympathy.

That's an honest sentiment btw (no /sarcasm) - Few, if any, of us marketeers,
got our inf without having at least one monumental mistake - my worst (so far)
cost me 73 Million, and I'm one of the fortunate ones...

The worst I can recall was 600 Million about a year ago...

The good news is -- your kid OWES you now, and once they hit an appropriate
age, you should remind them about it -- daily...


Cheers,
4

"Manuel Labor" <--- Isn't he "El Presidente for Life" of Mexico (that's what I heard)???

btw - thanks for getting the storage permissions fixed Redside (you know
who you are).

I went and organized all the salvage alphabetically (from L 2 R facing the racks),
so it'll be easier to see what we've got while crafting your particular shinies.
I'm willing to volunteer to keep those organized (I'm already doing that with
inspies) if nobody else is so-inclined, or feels strongly about it.

We may (or not) want to set some consensus for how many pieces of any
particular item to keep - In some cases we have 5 or 6 of an item...

In my own VG (with a friend) we keep no more than 3 of anything, and try to
have at least 1 of everything (we use our own Vaults for rares), and that
seems to work well for the two of us, but I'm not sure if that works as well
here or how much crafting is likely to be done or how "excess" should be
handled... Anyway, just something to think about if deemed useful...


Regards,
4

Welcome to the Game, OP.

I'm going to toss out a few thoughts on bootstrapping a character with 0 influence.
I do this with every new character I make and it's quick and reliable.


1> Do the tutorial - it's insipid after the first couple times, but worth it.
1a> Get the two large inspirations and the 2 training enhancements.


2> Sell the training enhancements to a Trainer or Quartermaster. Inf now > 0.
2a> At the Black Market (Mercy Island or Port Oakes) or WentWorth's
(Atlas Park or King's Row), sell your two inspirations... List them for 1 each.
This, by itself, probably gets you your 10K (maybe more, maybe less).

3> At the market, open up Crafted Enhancements -> Normal (TO's, DO's and
SO's). Look at SO's at L35+ (Enhancements listing only a Single Origin). If
you see any for sale, with 0 bidding, bid 100-500 for it. If you don't buy it
immediately, cancel the bid and move on...

Odds are very good you can get a full enhancement tray of 10 of them on
the cheap in just a few minutes. Sell these to the Trainer or Quartermaster...
One pass of this should get you to the 100K range, and you're off to the races.

Steps 1-3 can be done at Level 1-2 (You're at Level 2 if you finish the
tutorial normally), and should take about 1/2 hour in total...

From then, on, I rotate into the standard Recipe Vendoring (see my sig for
a guide) approach, along with playing normal content, to get to 10-20M.

This is enough to keep your toon in fresh DO's, SO's and common IO's for
their entire career... Sets, cost a bit more, but the Recipe Vendoring method
scales well to 100M or so, which is plenty... Beyond that, you'll want to
look at additional techniques if you want the inf to buy the super shinies.

Hope that helps, and again, welcome aboard...


Regards,
4

Sadly, I'll still be at work during the Katie...

In the meantime, would somebody with some clout Redside fix the
permissions on the salvage racks please - there are two of them
that can't be used by us "working grunts"

Thanks,
4

Or, you could, of course, read the definitive guide on recipe vendoring
(published in Oct 2008) that covers the topic in extensive detail...

It all still works as good today as it did then... See the link in my sig...

Regards,
4