Forbin_Project
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Quote:That's why I flat out stopped going to movie theatres. The only place I go when I do go out to see a movie is the local Drive-In where I can still see a double feature for $5 bucks April thru September.Originally Posted by Lothic
That's just pure capitalism at work. The theaters realized that their investment in the latest crop of 3D movies went bust (just like 3D fizzles out every time they trot it out) so instead of lowering the price to encourage people to keep watching 3D they'll just have all movies "meet in the middle" price-wise so that all movies will now cost more regardless. This "hides" the fact that there's any difference between any movie and will probably trick most people into thinking the theaters have "stopped" charging extra for 3D. It sucks for movie watchers but you have to admire the unmitigated gall the theaters had for foisting that upon us.
I have a movie budget I save up for during the winter. -
Quote:I'll admit if I could do all that I'd be a lot more willing to run open teams/leagues. The question is do the devs think it's worth the effort. Far too often (for reasons we don't understand) they seem to prefer to take the easy route.Originally Posted by Molehill
This. In 7 years I haven't posted in the forums more than 50 times. But I have a thing or two to say about this topic.
If, as Forbin says, control of team formation goes beyond level and build, then having the game implement a large number of filters on an ever changing set of data becomes burdensome. Basing automatic invites without enough refinement would leave a number (large or small I can't say) of people abandoning an LFG tool.
So I'll turn my suggestion around a bit ...
1. Have the players that are LFT join the queue for multiple, specific events. Leave a space for a short note to be included. (e.g. Have Clarion for UG). Have a list of events that are in progress and are open to them joining (minus those being led by people on the player's ignore list).
2. Have the players that are starting teams or LFM see a list of players LFT for the event they are leading minus everyone on their ignore list.
3. That list should include character information sortable by: toon name, global name, level, AT, primary set, secondary set, notes that the leader may have on the character, LFT note, and status (more on status below). A button to invite is next to every name that shows up.
4. A person who gets an invite will have a pop up message show up "<leader> has invited you to <event> running at level <difficulty setting>. You are <x> of <max number of players>. Do you accept?." There is a <15> second window to reply yes or no.
5. The status column on the LFM screen would show "considering other offer, refused, accepted, no response yet, timed out." If a person refuses then the name is greyed off the list and can't be sent another invite from this tool for that particular event to prevent people getting spammed with invites. If it was refused accidentally, then an invitation can be sent using /invite. A refresh button to update the list might be needed.
6. After the requirement for the minimum number of people is met, A button can become active to start the event. Options to leave the remaining slots, if any, open for people who want to join in progress events are available.
As I write this, it sounds like a modified version of the "Find Member" feature under the Team tab with a bit more focus and refinement. Instead of getting a blind invite wondering what the heck it's for, all that information should be given on the opening pop up for an event that was signed up for. If someone joins the queue for a particular even they should be open to receiving a pop up for an invitation to that event.
Basically the tools for easier filtering beyond ignore lists and sending invites is given to the team leader. So for example, Silver Gale wanting to start a UG would see all the people wanting to join a UG whom she hasn't ignored and who hasn't ignored her. She can randomly click invite for 23 people, or sort to her heart's desire and meticulously select who she wants out of that list to invite.
Look at the market interface for example. Instead of making something that fit perfectly with our game they bought a pre-made system from a third party and patched it onto our game. -
Quote:Part of the spam your describing is peoples aversion to having the star. Far too many people prefer letting someone else lead.Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
For quite a large number of players, the "method they prefer to use now" is spamming /local in AP, /broadcast if they have it, and /help until someone invites them to a team... making a better system shouldn't be incredibly hard... the hard part, though, is to get the initial critical mass off the channel spamming method, otherwise players will try it, not get on a team, and then never use it again (i.e. what happened with LFG, just like the "Looking for *" statuses), resulting in a vicious cycle.
For 8 years I've frequently watched a dozen people stand around the Statue in Atlas park spamming LFT for the same mission but not one of them will take the initiative and form a team.
I've even gone so far as to form the team for them, set the mission up before giving one of them the star and moving on to the next group and before 30 seconds pass they are again spamming LFT messages because none of them wanted to be the leader.
Forgive me if I don't believe the LFG queue is going to stop that from happening in randomly formed groups.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Winterminal
Ugh, really?! I mean, I get that conceptually: maybe he wants to create a Marvel-esque mutant, a one-trick pony. But then turn off your xp at 10 or 12 and be a perma-healer on DFBs! People will love you!
In a sick and twisted way though, that is exactly what I am talking about i.e. taking a concept to an extreme to the point where most players would consider your decisions foolish. However, there is a smart, unobtrusive way to go about something like that. What you're describing, F_B, is NOT it.
I thought about asking him if he knew he could use his second build so he could actually run his own missions solo while still keeping his primary build for healing/buffing teammates, but I've seen far too many people get offended when their concepts get questioned so I kept my trap shut. -
Quote:I didn't say everyone. I just said players, plural. As in some not all.Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
Some people came to the forum. Some people demanded the option to form closed leagues/teams.
If the devs decide to change the LFG system the biggest hurdle the devs have to overcome is creating something the players will want to use instead of the methods they prefer to use now. -
Just saw a player in the help channel tonight trying to get PL'd because he can't complete any missions on his own because his character is designed to be non combat. He said he just follows other players around casting heals/buffs.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Molehill
In trials like DD I've often seen a qualifier that only +2's or +3's are wanted. And most likely with good reason. People may have other requirements for other trials. My suggestion's goal (whether or not it got there is debatable) is to sort of expand on your statement I quoted.
For example, it would be nice if there was...
A simple way to just say "accept the next 23 people (who are +2 and +3 and) who show interest in the (DD) iTrial" would have helped me immensely.
Or not ... use of qualifiers (filters) should be optional. Obviously more filters reduces your chances of finding people to fill the slots.
In the case of trying to start a TF one might want to: "accept the next 7 people interested in STF who are level 50. One of them needs to be a tank and another needs to be a healer."
It's sort of a bastardization between completely open and pre-formed closed teams.
You're going to need a lot more than that to get players to use it. (just a few examples to follow)
You'll need a filter to block anyone in the queue that is on someones ignore list.
You'll need a filter to screen the players Notes so they can choose to block people they've blacklisted from joining.
You'll need a filter that will check AT's for players that want to hold events that are open to anyone running a specific AT. (see Tanker Tuesdays) -
Quote:No that isn't accurate. If you were here when the LFG queue was first implemented you'll remember that players chose to start pre-forming leagues because they didn't want to use the queue, and they came to the forums demanding the option to form closed leagues/teams. The reasons they gave for this was quite simple. They didn't like having random people thrust upon them, and they didn't like being forced to form full leagues/teams to prevent the queue from adding unwanted players to their teams. And it was in response to the player demands that the devs added the closed teaming option.Originally Posted by Silver Gale
My interpretation was that nobody uses the queue to randomly team up because nobody *else* ever uses the queue, so it's easier to randomly team up by Broadcasting "LF any Trial" in the proper zone.
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I know this topic was brought up in the initial thread announcing Freedom. I know because I was one of the ones asking about it, and we were told by Zwil if I recall correctly that they would look into it. Ah here's the thread. the posts are spread out a bit. Mousedroid and couple of others also mention SG transfers.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...=263587&page=2 -
Quote:Blue, You may not be aware of this but as far as the devs are concerned there isn't a huge problem with the storage system anymore because they feel they fixed it.Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
There is a huge problem with the storage system.
You see we used to be able to store 2,500 pieces of salvage in the Base Salvage Bins. The devs decided that our having access to that much storage was a problem that needed to be corrected because we weren't using the bins the way the devs intended for them to be used. So back in issue 13 the devs reduced the amount of salvage we could store in the bins from 2,500 to 30.
We've voiced our displeasure ever since and been ignored because they apparently have no intention of changing it.
Now it's possible that they may one day decide to add some sort of global personal storage, but if they do it won't be for a very large amount. Being cynical after seeing what was done to the Base salvage bins the most I can imagine them allowing is 25-50 slots. If they allowed more then I picture the base amount being lower with them selling global storage expansions on the market for several hundred points.
Hell they might even sell the whole kit and kaboodle on the market. -
Quote:I've fought tens of thousands of Hellions in AP and never once got an inspiration I could sell for 100k to 500k on the market. So while I despise the tutorial I will go thru it every time for that green inspiration.Originally Posted by Doctor Roswell
But while you're fighting the shivan for no XP, you could be fighting Hellions. Which are worth XP.
Xp? Pfft who cares about xp at that level. -
Quote:That jerk has a lot of nerve accusing others of ripping him off. I remember reading a short story in one of my English textbooks about machines coming to life and killing off humans that was written long before he "wrote" Trucks and Maximum Overdrive.Originally Posted by Mental_Giant
Hell, Steven King reviewed The Hunger Games when it came out and basically pointed out how Collins was ripping off his The Long Walk and Running Man.
I like both Hunger Games and Battle Royale. -
Quote:You're right Texas, my bad. I double checked and I was confusing the new DA with Echo DA which you can't get into unless your level 21.Originally Posted by Texas Justice
DA is NOT level restricted. I've taken several non-50's into the new DA.
They can't get missions in DA but they can get in the zone. -
Quote:Actually the problem is that there's very few people willing to play redside, and most players prefer forming closed teams and pre-forming teams before joining the queue. So joining the queue and waiting is pretty much pointless.Originally Posted by Lucky666
PS: The LFG que is bunkem no one uses.
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Quote:I remember 1 starring one player that had taken all the powers in Concealment, Medicine, Teleport, and pre-inherent Fitness (he apparently refused to respec out of it). The end result was his Emp Defender was level 42 or 43 and still only had 1 attack (the first power in his secondary) and only Healing Aura, Heal Other, Absorb Pain, and Resurrect from his Primary.Originally Posted by Doc_Reverend
Like the guys who take all the Empathy powers AND the full Medicine pool?
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Welcome back Goat. Let us know what servers ya decide on cuz if ya need SG access I'm sure there'll be some of us either willing to throw an alt into one of your SG's to help you pay rent or invite you to one of ours.
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Uhm not saying I wouldn't like them to look more unique but in your examples the Arsonist has different powers as does the Medic which is probably why they were made to look distinctive.
There is no special tier 1 alpha wolf, thus all the wolves look the same. Just like how:
All the tier 1 Zombies look the same
All the tier 1 Battle Drones look the same
All the tier 1 Genin look the same
Again not saying it's right for the devs to do it that way, just pointing out that there's a pattern.
Maybe they could give the fur slightly different base colors. brown, white, silver/gray. -
Quote:Since you are specifically referring to Itrials I'll respond with the methods being used to control Itrial recruitment in your post.Originally Posted by Silver Gale
Well, from my observations, there are plenty of people on Broadcast in the RWZ and now in Dark Astoria saying "any Trials forming?" or "50+X [AT] LF any Trial".
Likewise, when a Trial does start forming, it is my observation that many leaders tend to announce it on Broadcast and Global channels, recruiting freely both those people who are Broadcasting for invites and those who send them tells. I have asked to join many Trials in forming and have only ever been refused for lack of room. During off-peak times, when playing on my level 50s, I have even gotten /tells asking me if I am interested in a trial.
Neither of those situations appears to speak of "wanting to control who they team with" - on the contrary, it seems to value getting into the Trial as soon as possible. They are both quite frequent and I do not often see the same character name twice.
So, based on my observations, I conclude that there is a significant amount of players in the game who want to experience the Trials with a minimum of fuss and waiting, not really caring who they are teamed with. I am assuming that the intended use of the random queue on the LFG tool is to help that particular class of people get into Trials faster. Please feel free to point out any errors you see in this line of thinking.
So, if the random queue is intended to help people who don't care about team composition and want to get into the Trial faster, and the random queue is *not* actually helping people get into the Trial faster, then the LFG tool is not working right for those people and could use an improvement.
If the majority of the players who run Trials care about proper team composition more than expediency, or if the LFG queue is intended only to let pre-made Leagues run the Trials, then of course everything is working correctly.
1. Incarnate Trials can only be run by VIP's (this one is out of the hands of players but still counts)
Incarnate Trials being restricted to VIP's controls who can join those trials by eliminating all F2P and Prem players from participating.
2. They are using Broadcast in zones that are known for gathering spots for Incarnate Content so they are most likely to get responses from VIP's interested in doing that content.
3. They use Global Channels. Global Channels are small communities of players that know each other at least casually and they only contain members that are either VIP's or Prem's that have earned enough reward tokens to unlock global channel access. So recruiting from them means you know the respondents are more likely to be interested in running the same content and that they have experience doing that content. Furthermore many of the global channels are dedicated to doing certain types content. for example: TankHQ is dedicated to people that like running tankers.
4. Requiring people to respond with tells effectively eliminates people that haven't unlocked the ability to send tells by acquiring at least 2 reward tokens. Another method of controlling who responds
5. The new DA is level restricted (like Eden still is) which also adds a level of control as to who can enter and join those teams. By recruiting in the restricted zone only qualified players can enter to be recruited.
6. I noticed that in your post you didn't say that you got on those trials by simply joining the queue. That indicates that the Itrials you saw recruiting, joined, or were simply invited to were either pre-formed or closed team/leagues which validates my point that players prefer controlling who they invite rather than letting the LFG feature assign random people from the queue. -
I have encountered people that actually do deliberately gimp their characters. When it happens it's nearly always been Emp characters where the player has specifically focused on the healing powers and made a point to take as few offensive powers as possible by taking as many non offensive power pool powers as possible. A good warning sign is someone who is rockin the aura for no reason outside of combat.
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Quote:Ah, asked this way, yes I do. I have a handful of characters whose concept was based on them performing in a specific zone. In those cases I turn off XP at a certain point so they never outlevel that particular zone.Originally Posted by Winterminal
I suppose another way to ask this is: Are you someone who commonly will stop their character's power level at a certain point (for whatever reason), even if it means you may miss out on a certain chunk of content, or be less powerful than your peers?
For example Daredevil protects Hell's Kitchen
Now I have a few other characters that will skip powers because they don't fit the concept I have in mind. For example I have a Rad/Rad that doesn't use the heals/buffs because he only emits harmful radiation. -
Quote:Who left it out? This thread is about the LFG feature. What do you think I'm talking about. Players control who gets invited to their trial teams by closing the teams and screening who they invite, rather than allowing the queue to assign random players that they don't want on the team and forcing the team leaders to kick said uninvited guests off of the trial. Which in turn will result in the person being kicked having a bad experience with the queue and quickly they stop using it.Originally Posted by Molehill
While using the LFG queue? Don't leave that part out.
You're suggesting something that is most likely to be seen by the devs as a waste of time and resources to develop because they can easily use datamining to determine how many players use closed teams in the queue vs open teams. When the former drastically outweighs the latter it's just not in their best interest to invest time and resources developing something that won't get used.Quote:I'm suggesting modifications to the LFG queue without touching what people are doing outside of it
Not sure what the point you're trying to make is. Are you implying you've been told not to make suggestions? If so where exactly did anyone tell you that you should keep your suggestions to yourself?Quote:This is the suggestions and ideas forum, right? Where someone might post ideas and opinions that may be contrary to what's been intended?
If you're just talking about suggesting changes to the game that differ from the devs intentions, then you should be aware that posting contrary ideas and opinions works both ways. When you post a suggestion you are going to get both positive and negative feedback from fellow players. People will both agree and disagree with you. What you do with that feedback is up to you.
You should also be aware that there are topics (not this one, but others) that have been suggested a plethora of times but are flat out refused and/or ignored by the devs because they don't want to allow it. Sometimes their explanations make sense to us and other times they don't make any sense at all. Arguing those are just an exercise in futility. -
Quote:Hmm. Yeah if you don't know him in Real Life or have an address for him that will be a problem. Have you considered putting money on a pay pal account for him? We are supposed to be able to use pay pal for purchases.Originally Posted by Thorgar
hmm have to look into that, as hes in Canada and im in Texas lol
Other than that I can't think of another alternative to help out your friend. -
Quote:No I think you understand what you've been told, but you don't like it so you're going to continue to dismiss it.Originally Posted by Molehill
I'm not seeing why they would have to give up that ability. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.
Players already have and exercise control over the creation of their teams.Quote:I'm simply suggesting giving players some control over the creation of those teams.
Yes. That's exactly what we want to do, and demanded the devs allow us to do after they first added the LFG queue.Quote:And make the rest of the team wait while the team lead socializes individually with every person who may or may not be interested in what's being run?
Screening teammates for an event is not "social interaction".Quote:I find that having social interaction in a team while the event is being run is worth more.
Which is working exactly as the devs intended.Quote:The help channel is the main carrier for teaming requests, several random conversations, and people actually looking for help.
Opinions of what is an improvement vary.Quote:I think there's room for improvement. -
You can pu money on a prepaid credit card and send it to your friend.
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Quote:The only thing is that the people that prefer simply joining the queue and waiting will still have the same issue as now because most people refuse to give up the ability to create pre-formed private teams.Originally Posted by Molehill
I don't think having a tool to help people form pug teams should preclude anyone from pre-forming a team the old way (also locking it so no one else can get in) and then joining the queue. The idea is to better control how those random (not pre-formed) teams would form so there's a better chance for success.