Forbin_Project
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:Please don't necropost 2 year old threads. If you are that bored just start a new thread.Originally Posted by Gespenst
I would like to see anime style faces. -
Quote:If you are talking costumes and sex of the henchmen that's a popular suggestion.Originally Posted by corpsegrindr
Just an idea, you could make pets for masterminds as you would characters in the AE.
Of course, features for preventing farming would also be prevented, but I just want to know if it is a good idea?
If you are talking powers then that will probably never happen because it would be so easy to make unbalanced powerset choices.
Of course I still would love to be able to do both. -
Quote:Old news. I've been lobbying the Iron Sky as proof the 5th column should be part of Golden_Ace's Moon Hazard Zone thread up in the suggestion forums for at least 2 years.Originally Posted by Gruntle
Well if a Nazi Moonbase isn't a part of hero and comic culture then I don't know what is.
go to this website http://www.ironsky.net/site/ for news on an independent (Finnish!) film that looks like it may be quite fun.
It's billed as a Sci Fi/Comedy, which given it has Nazi Space Zeppellins is pretty much a given.
anyhow perhaps they are tied into the 5th column?
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=114726
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn4DW1uvsAE -
Quote:I was speaking in general not specifics.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I can't speak for anyone else, but I've been saying the exact opposite.
Outside a few exceptions this topic almost always comes up when quarterly earnings are released and the number of subscribers are speculated as being too low.
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Quote:Sorry Slick but I never said that ANY CoH player suggesting an alternative is a freeloading cheapskate. What I actually said was that SOME people don't want to pay for anything and think they are entitled to handouts.Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
I wasn't talking about other games either. I was talking about the attitude that any City of Heroes player suggesting an alternative to subscriptions is a freeloading cheapskate who just wants to ride on the coattails of the people who are really paying for the game.
It's not as if you posted "The discussion first came up from a forum posting a year or two ago", Forbin. The extra added dose of judgment of the poster(s) was my point there.
This is all starting to sound personal so I'm going to step off of the subway train at this point. I've already ventured my opinion that the whole thread is mostly a waste of time, except as a thought exercise and that opinion hasn't changed.
You are also reading something that wasn't said into my post. Probably unintentionally because this has always been a hot topic.
Now as to the idea that what I said is a matter of personal judgement, that isn't true. We've had many examples over the years of people posting that they want stuff for free or at least charged far less than what is currently charged. and the justifications given have ranged from the reasonable to the outright idiotic. We even had one guy complaining that CoH should change it's fees because he wasn't willing to to change what he spent each month.
He listed his expenses among which were
Alcohol
Adult Entertainment
Restaurants
Gambling
Maid Service from a family member
Movie Theatres
Video Rentals
And about a dozen video games that required a sub fee.
Naturally when posters suggested that he'd be able to afford the game if he spent less on a few of the above expenses he listed he responded with
Quote:i'm surprised so many ppl were against this. you must be rich or are you brats that live off your parents. how easily do you give away your money.
well. i think its funny that i make a little suggestion about the game being old, maybe the graphics a little low quality, and old fashioned for me to be paying $14.99 for it, and you all freak out.
So I wasn't adding judgment into my post. It's a sad fact that those people do in fact exist. -
Hippies and tree huggers should be thrilled with ebooks because the more that people use them the fewer trees have to be used to make real books.
Save a tree buy a kindle.
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Quote:Wasn't talking about freemium in other games. My comment was in response to another poster asking about the origin of how going F2P got started in CoH and it wasn't started by the company. It was started here by players years ago.Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
How does it become less offensive if he was speaking about someone other than the reader?
You're not familiar with the old recreational drugs adage about how "the first hit is free", are you?
Freemium isn't about people wanting to freeload. It's about publishers getting players in the door with the free offering and then selling the hell out of them to get them to part with their money.
The attitude quoted above is one of the reasons I noted previously that a freemium version of the game is not targeted at people who already subscribe. Condemning your fellow players as cheapskate freeloaders for favoring a different monetization model is doing them a disservice, IMO.
In any case, it doesn't matter if 90% "freeload" and 10% pay if the company turns an overall profit on that 10%.
None of this matters here, though. I've seen this discussion on other game forums before and the same tired arguments, FUD and name calling by the anti-freemium crowd. In the end, the decision by a publisher/developer to use a freemium model is based on projected profitability, not based on the personal opinions of a few forumites, regardless of which side of the equation they land on. -
Quote:Where did I say your name in my post? Oh that's right I didn't. Unknown User wondered about the origin of the F2P movement in this game and guess what? You ain't it. Your just another person in a long line to beat a dead horse.Originally Posted by American_Knight
I take offense to your post. You may disagree with the topic I presented in this thread, but making a personal attack on me is uncalled for and rude.
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Quote:/this.Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Lord of the Rings: OK.
Starship Troopers: Too much. -
Quote:That's easy. It all goes back to the fact that some people don't want to pay for anything and think they are entitled to handouts. They assume that they will be able to enjoy the game while other people pick up the slack of paying for everything.Originally Posted by Unknown_User
Almost tempted to try and trace the origins of making CoH F2P. Just wondering what started it, and what the whole premise for the idea was.
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Quote:At least he knows enough to quit when he's losing an argument.Originally Posted by Dark One
I'm done arguing with you. Please, feel free to have the last word if that's important to you. I won't respond to you further in this thread.
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Quote:Why is the only reason to change to an F2P business plan you guys can think of is that the game is DOOMED if we don't.Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
Why must F2P always be equated with DOOM instead of change?
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Quote:Well with a reader I never have to buy another copy of the same book because I wore it out from rereading it.Originally Posted by Dark One
Well, with a paper book I never have to recharge it, never have to worry about someone taking it from me with no recourse on my part, and never have to worry about changing formats rendering it unreadable.
Besides, bookcases full along the walls looks a lot neater than a tablet.
I never have to worry about someone taking my book away from me because I can download a simple program that lets me read my books on any Kindle reader, Ipad, Iphone, Ipod, Android, Blackberry, PC, or Mac.
I never have to carry boxes of books when moving, or to place them in storage because I need more room for newer books.
I never have to worry about replacing my library because of unforseen disasters like a house fire, or flooding from busted pipes, new roof leak etc.
I don't have to buy large pieces of furniture that clutter up my home just to store books.
My entire library of Ebooks is always at my fingertips whenever I want to read something. I never have to be concerned that my mood may change about what I want to read and not be able to choose something else.
All that being said I still love real books and I'll continue to buy them as well as ebooks.
Edit: Oh yeah recharging. That's what my kindle does while I'm sleeping or driving. -
Ah crap. Even tho I have never been even a mild fan of Wrestling, The Macho Man Randy Savage has always been my favorite one of all. So much so that I actually have a blapper based off of his persona that I named "Off Constant Lee". One of the few tribute characters I have.
Wherever you are Macho Man you will be remembered fondly.
RIP -
Quote:Perhaps I'm having trouble putting the desire to want to have something that isn't necessary into the right words.Originally Posted by reiella
Then your idea of "feel they need" is different from mine.
I don't consider a candy bar that I buy in checkout something I felt I needed to have, I considered it something nice. On the contrast, a membership to Sams Club is something I feel I need to have if I want to shop at Sams. Similarly though, I also don't believe I need to "super size" my value meal.
I still believe if the item is something that is perceived necessary, then it is acting as a barrier to entry instead of an opportunity for profit. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Arcanaville
That's an interesting conjecture, as City of Heroes currently offers purchasable game enhancements that are permanent, yet not necessarily things F2P players will always feel they need to have to play. The upcoming Steampunk pack, for example, could have been released as a microtransaction item if CoH was F2P, and it would not match your requirements. And yet, evidence suggests its likely to generate a lot of interests and a signficant income, which are the actual only two properties MT items have to possess.
We've been looking at things like the Turbine model for guidance, but wouldn't NCSoft, if they decided to start thinking about an F2P conversion, look to what works *here* first, rather than what worked elsewhere and may or may not work here? Wouldn't they be asking: what do our players tell us - with their wallets - people will pay for? What is too much to ask, and what is too little to give? Where do we draw the line between the standard content and the ala carte content? Shouldn't we try to draw the line fairly close to where City of Heroes currently draws it?
Other MMOs can give us an idea of how an F2P system might be structured but as to the content decisions that go into it, I think you first start at home. We don't have to randomly guess at what the existing playerbase will accept, because the existing playerbase has been giving NCSoft data for years now on what they will accept and not accept, by virtue of the sales numbers and community feedback of every boxed expansion and booster pack City of Heroes has ever sold.
That's actually an advantage City of Heroes has that most F2P conversions did not have: a lot of data on what works and what doesn't work prior to the conversion. We've actually been living in a hybrid model for several years now, just not specifically a F2P one. The transition from a pure subscription model to an F2P model is actually two transitions in one: a transition from subscriber only to tiered access (from VIP subscription if it exists down to free to access), and a transition from buffet gaming to ala carte gaming. That's a big set of jumps. But we're already at least half way into the jump from buffet gaming to ala carte gaming: we wouldn't have to make both jumps completely blind.
That's what I feel forboding about. What do we have in this game that isn't necessary to play but can be switched over to be something sold over and over as a microtransaction that players might feel they want/need to play on a regular basis.
Inspirations?
Temp Powers?
Recipes? (soul bound to individual characters)
IO Enhancements? (again soul bound to individual characters)
Base items/decorations? -
Quote:Please go back and reread what I posted. I didn't say that MT's should be things that were needed to play the game. I said they should be things players will "feel" they need.Originally Posted by reiella
That's actually a bit of a failure imo. They have to be things that are nice to have while playing, but you can make do without.
I'm talking impulse purchases like the stuff you find at the Checkout line in a store. The "OOOH! I gotta get some more of those!" things.
The problem for F2P games is that if they have too many permanent items in their stores, then once bought they'll never get that player to buy it again because he won't need it, especially if the item is an account wide purchase.
That's why most F2P models restrict permanent items to things like costumes and some even go so far as to restrict them to individual characters. -
Quote:Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
You're correct that you phrased the question such that you would get the only answer that you wanted to hear, yes.
There's nothing special about the superhero genre in comparison to other genres. Suggesting that you can't apply the lessons or data points of other games because they are fantasy or space opera or golden age of piracy or cake baking is putting way too much emphasis on the genre at the expense of the one thing all of those activities have in common - that that they are multiplayer games. (Well, maybe not the cake baking, though it might be interesting to see just how you could gamify that as a MMO.) Honestly it was done in response to other posts by several people that used "fantasy" MMO's in their generalizations. Just a little fun with wordplay.
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The big problem people overlook with the F2P model is that the number of accounts made is no longer relavent. The accounts do not generate money for being created. The microtransactions make the money.
Most MT's will have to be of temporary use and they will have to be things F2P players will feel they need to have to play. -
Quote:I would argue no. It was the stunts they pulled after launch that killed them but that isn't for discussion here.Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
But they were failures at launch before they switched to F2P, weren't they?
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Quote:Sorry but saying NONE is not against the forum rules. I was very careful in my phrasing of the question.Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
Forum rules prevent me from mentioning the names of any other MMO.
The key word was "Successful" . And as we know just the opposite has been announced, all super hero MMO's in the industry that tried to go the F2P route have lost millions. -
Quote:Damn Bill this is much like what I PM'd someone.Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
The first point, as far as "committing to something being somewhat of a throttle on behavior" (not so much "lol, noobs") is one thing to consider. It's what sticks in mind with a lot of the "I don't want/would leave if the game became F2P, because it would go down the tubes."
F2P? They open a new server specifically for it. All F2P characters are isolated there. Paying customers can go there if they want, but it's isolated - like test, it has its own market, AE and the like. (Actually, I'm tempted *not* to let paying/trial customers go there - just because it opens up an RMT pathway.) Of course, that makes the transition between F2P and real subscriber difficult (in both directions.) Allow transfers (free if current, fee if not) from the live servers to the F2P one.
And then we hit the second point, too - what gets *charged for* on this F2P? Our current packs and such just don't do very much for a F2P model, and splitting the game... eh. I don't see it working very well, or doing anything more than slowing updates.
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Quote:Name one Super Hero MMO that has been successful making the F2P crossover.Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
Because That Fantasy Tabletop Based MMO That Converted To F2P did experience a huge influx of players?
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Quote:Nope not even close. We're saying just because the OP doesn't want to hear people say they wouldn't switch to F2P doesn't mean he gets to dictate that they can't voice their opinion in this thread.Originally Posted by Tormentoso
So if something shouldn't be done and/or should not happen, we can't play pretendy imagination world.
Got it.
He has every right to propose it and we have the same right to shoot it down. This is a public forum. Deal with it. -
Well the first thing I would do is not call them F2P accounts to avoid the stigmata that is associated with them. Instead I would call them Trial Accounts and they would have the following restrictions.
Trial Accounts would last 14 days
Trial Accounts cannot email other players
Trial Accounts may not level past 14
Trial Accounts can only have 50k inf
Trial Accounts may not join global channels
Trial Accounts can only speak in
/local
/hc (the Help channel)
/team
Trial Accounts cannot invite players to team
Trial Accounts may join teams, but not invite other players
Trial Accounts may not join SuperGroups.
Trial Accounts may not create Mission Architect arcs. They can not interface with the Architect Entertainment Stations. However, they can be invited onto a team that is running MA missions.