Folonius

*Smothers Healix with chocolate sauce*

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Stuns, Holds, Sleeps, and the other "traditional" mez effects can be compared to each other with relative ease. Mag determines what you can affect and duration is duration. Mag for KB is both and a higher KB doesn't actually guarantee a similarly large increase in mitigation of the target.


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That statement right there makes KB worse. KB is only a 4 second guarentee that something (if it's not resistant to KB) will be mitigated. Most AV's are vitually immune to KB, but I know of no AV's that can't be held.

I can rate all the different mez attacks based on usefulness, and other than maybe sleep, KB is one of the worst. Again, I'm not advocating for them to change KB, just to spice up the damage more, or drop force bolt to around tier 5 and move the other powers up.

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How are you even comparing Lightning Clap and OG? They're not even remotely close to being related to one another for comparison's sake.


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The are both stun effects.

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Tier has nothing to do with a power's importance or potency.


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It has to do with when you get the powers, and obviously, you don't want to get the good powers first. That's why fire imps are last on a fire controller. Saying there isn't a relation between when you get a power and how strong a power is is crazy.

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Why haven't we compared repulsion bomb to ball lightning yet? If tier 7 Power Push should be better than tier 3 Force Bolt, it follows that tier 7 repulsion bomb's damage should be better than tier 3 ball lightning.

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Ok, lets compare those two powers.

Repulsion Bomb:
Tier 8 power, 36.15 smashing damage, and KB of .67 (which equates to KD)
it's also a mag 2 stun for 12 seconds 40% of the time.

So it's moderate damage, KD, and stun.

Ball Lightning:
Tier 3 power, 10.84 energy damage with 26.04 more damage over the period of 4 seconds for a total of 36.88 damage.
It also drains .07 endurance

Repulsion Bomb is phenomenally better than Ball Lightning, hence the 4 tier seperation.

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Secondly, stuns and holds are only slightly less situational than knockbacks, but that's because they're completely different effects. You can't compare them side to side.


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Yes you can compare them, because KB falls into the mez catagory. Because KB is more of a situational power, it makes it worse than stun and hold. However, I'm not saying they should remove the KB from the power, but add more damage to it.

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Power Push recharges in 8 seconds. That's the fastest of the ranged "control" powers. Freeze ray and Tesla Cage are both 10 seconds. Stunning Shot, Beanbag, Screech, and Scramble Thoughts are all on 20 seconds timers.

Power Push has a .268 damage scalar. Stunning Shot is .25. Beanbag is .2. Tesla Cage is .15. Freeze Ray is .1. Scramble Thoughts is .25. Screech is .2.

Power push has a base accuracy of 1.4. Stunning Shot is 1.155. Beanbag is 1.05. Tesla Cage, Freeze Ray, Scramble Thoughts, and Screech are all 1.

Power Push activates in 1.32 seconds (Arcanatime). Stunning Shot (1.98), Tesla Cage (2.376), Scramble Thoughts (3.168), and Screech (1.716) have higher (sometime much higher) activation times. Beanbag (1.056) and Freeze Ray (1.188) are the only 2 that beat Power Push, but they pay for that by having worse damage.

Power Push has a range of 70'. Scramble Thoughts is the only power with better at 80', but that's part of Psychic Blast's schtick. All of the other are stuck with a range of 60'.


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While it is important to compare those in the same sets, it is also important to compare primaries and secondaries as I did in an above post. As I have stated, there are numerous of examples where primary and secondary powers are similar in sets, and they generally fall anywhere from 0 to 2 tiers away from each other.

A 4 tier spread IMO is to much for powers that do the same damage, and secondary effect between a primary and a secondary power pool. This is the only two powers when compared are that much of a spread in tiers between a primary and a secondary that I know of.

I can't log in either!
.
.
Oh wait, I'm at work .....

Once upon a Positron there was a bug. It's purple Mankey liked saving walruses deaths. Until a green shoe fell off a pretty cloud of root beer fluff cleaving off seven little toes while chewing Bubblegum. After seeing the drunk Pinnacle-ite puke chunky bits of magnets, it stumbled into a garbage carafe. Feeling pretty depressed, it died a Lonely death.

Elsewhere, there were some hungry hippos dancing on me for every time one slurps from the fountain of Wayne. In the early dawn, sirens wailed under a pale little moon made of nothing. People thought they saw Ghost Widow munching on Doritos with Valerie. But it wasn't Doritos, it was a magical corncob that sexy Jay designed with care.

This time, she wanted 12 umpa-loompas and 5 slimy Pterodactyls with Listerine. Suddenly the wizard Spanksalot grumbled with great big annoyance. Dirty scoundrels sacked small vermin left by evil midgets wearing pink Fedoras and speedos. However, Elvis wasn't having cheesecake; he stopped to adjust Stacy's corset that had melted rubber down its frog but sadly, he died. Cheney shot the lawyer in the buttocks with spitballs made of recycled garbage

Curse you!

Once upon a Positron there was a bug. It's purple Mankey liked saving walruses deaths. Until a green shoe fell off a pretty cloud of root beer fluff cleaving off seven little toes while chewing Bubblegum. After seeing the drunk Pinnacle-ite puke chunky bits of magnets, it stumbled into a garbage carafe. Feeling pretty depressed, it died a Lonely death.

Elsewhere, there were some hungry hippos dancing on me for every time one slurps from the fountain of Wayne. In the early dawn, sirens wailed under a pale little moon made of nothing. People thought they saw Ghost Widow munching on Doritos with Valerie. But it wasn't Doritos, it was a magical corncob that sexy Jay designed with care.

This time, she wanted 12 umpa-loompas and 5 slimy Pterodactyls with Listerine. Suddenly the wizard Spanksalot grumbled with great big annoyance. Dirty scoundrels sacked small vermin left by evil midgets wearing pink Fedoras and speedos. However, Elvis wasn't having cheesecake; he stopped to adjust Stacy's corset that had melted rubber down its frog but sadly, he died. Cheney shot the lawyer in the buttocks with spitballs

Once upon a Positron there was a bug. It's purple Mankey liked saving walruses deaths. Until a green shoe fell off a pretty cloud of root beer fluff cleaving off seven little toes while chewing Bubblegum. After seeing the drunk Pinnacle-ite puke chunky bits of magnets, it stumbled into a garbage carafe. Feeling pretty depressed, it died a Lonely death.

Elsewhere, there were some hungry hippos dancing on me for every time one slurps from the fountain of Wayne. In the early dawn, sirens wailed under a pale little moon made of nothing. People thought they saw Ghost Widow munching on Doritos with Valerie. But it wasn't Doritos, it was a magical corncob that sexy Jay designed with care.

This time, she wanted 12 umpa-loompas and 5 slimy Pterodactyls with Listerine. Suddenly the wizard Spanksalot grumbled with great big annoyance. Dirty scoundrels sacked small vermin left by evil midgets wearing pink Fedoras and speedos. However, Elvis wasn't having cheesecake; he stopped to adjust Stacy's corset that had melted rubber down its frog but sadly, he died. Cheney shot the lawyer in the buttocks

In before someone says "What a unique idea!"

Wait, what happened here?

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Yes, I think that in some cases a KB is as good as a stun.


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I knew that is what you would say .... So now let me ask you two more questions ....

1) for all situations, the effectiveness of Holds can be substitued for the effectiveness of knockbacks (true/false)

2) for all situations, the effectiveness of knockbacks can be substitued for the effectiveness of holds (true/false)

The reason I bring this up, is if Power Push were a hold or a stun, it would be enough to justify that it's a tier 7, and force bolt is a tier 3. Knockback IMO is a situational (yet fun) secondary effect to play with. Stuns and holds are an all the time power.

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Sonic has Screech which is minor damage +disorient
Archery has Stunning Shot which is minor damage +disorient
Psi has Scramble Thoughts which is minor damage +disorient
AR has Beanbag which is minor damage +disorient (see the pattern)
Elec has Tesla Cage which is minor damage +hold


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Do you believe that Knockback is as good as a hold or a stun?

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I suggest you check something a bit more accurate than Paragonwiki.


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I find paragon wiki accurate. I'm not in front of my home computer atm, but I'll check the description in game when I get home.

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You may want to actually get your information right next time


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Again, I'm talking about force bolt, and power push. Paragon Wiki may want to update their information then. Even if one offers a heal, the one that does deals no damage, and they are still comparable. I could care less about two powers that are balanced properly and have no issues; Energy Drain and Dark Consumption are.

Here are a few more powers that are nicely balanced between primary and seconday sets such as Energy Drain and Dark Consumption:

Brute:
Electrical Melee: Lightning Clap -> Dark Armor: Oppressive Gloom
Lightning Clap is tier 8, deals damage, and has a long recharge
Opressive Gloom is tier 8, a stun toggle, but deals damage to the user.
These are balanced.

Blaster:
Archery: Stunning Shot -> Energy Manipulation: Stun
Stunning Shot is a ranged, so it's tier 8, Stun is melee and forces a blaster in close, so it's tier 6. Both do the same thing, and it's balanced.

Many blaster primaries: Aim -> Devices: Targeting Drone
Aim is the same across most blaster primaries, either tier 4, 5, or 6 and does the same in each set. 37.5% to hit base and 62.5% damage bonus.
Targetting Drone is tier 4, and inceases To hit by 13.875%. It also increases perception and resistance to debuff and it's a toggle.
I have a fire/dev blaster, and the damage increase on Aim is a huge bonus, and because Targetting Drone offers less ACC and no damage buff and is a toggle, I feel it's balanced.

Controller
Earth: Quicksand -> Trick Arrow: Glue Arrow

These do the same thing, quicksand is tier 3 and glue arrow is tier 4. These, IMO, should be tweeked, but they are no where near how bad force bolt and power push are. I do understand the reason Quicksand is tier 4 (hold, immob, aoe immob are first three in the majority of hold sets), but I would cut 10-20 seconds from glue arrow's recharge, or swap glue arrow to tier 4 and make ice arrow tier 3.
Overall, they are only seperated by 1 tier so this example is close to balanced IMO.

Scrappers:
Dark Melee: Dark Consumption -> Fiery Aura: Consume
Dark Consumption is tier 7 and consume is tier 6. The recharge is the same, and consume deals damage. Again, These powers do the same thing, and they are only seperated by 1 tier. IMO, this is close to balanced.

Defender:
Storm Summoning: Thunder Clap -> Dark Blast: Dark Pit
Thunder clap is tier 7, and Dark Pit is tier 4, and both powers cause stun. Dark Pit has a recharge of 60 seconds, and stuns for 11.92 seconds, and Thunder clap has a recharge of 45 seconds and stuns for 14.9 seconds. Obviously, Thunder clap is the better of the two because of the shorter recharge, and longer stun duration, so it's balanced.

I could go on and on, but lets get to the point ....

Force Field: Force Bolt -> Energy Blast: Power Push
Force Bolt is tier 3, 18.694 knockback, and causes 7.23 damage with a recharge of 4 seconds.
Power Push is tier 7, 16.617 Knockback, and causes 7.23 damage with a recharge of 8 seconds.

If power push were in tier 4, or 5 and were only a 1 or 2 tier spread between the two I could probably let it slide, but it's a 4 tier spread! And Force Bolt is STILL better than Power Push. There is no reason that there should be a 4 tier spread between two powers that do exactly the same thing.

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Energy Drain is a +heal/+end with a substantial end drain to the mobs and a 60 second recharge


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I'm assuming you used Mids to get your info. I haven't tried the power in game since I'm talking about FB and PP, but according to Paragon Wiki Energy Drain is not a heal, it is an end buff only. I'm not sure if the recharge that is listed in mids is correct either, but paragon wiki does list the recharge as long, and the recharge for dark comsumption as very long, so I would assume the recharge displayed in mids is correct.

Mids also says you can slot heal enhancements in the power. Paragon Wiki states otherwise.

As to the function of the power, it attacks the targets endurance, and has a long recharge (Does no damage hench the shorter recharge). Against PvE creatures, endurance isn't that important to them anyways, so a recharge of long is reasonable.

Dark Consumption is also a +endurance power for the wielder, but instead of taking that endurance from the targets endurance, it takes it from their HP and does moderate damage, so is more useful as it's an attack, therfore the recharge is very long.

I stand by saying that these two powers are comparable, and would still use this example as why power push and force bolt should be adjusted to better reflect the tier that they lie in.

Give power push more damage, and it would be more in line with this example.

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*Thinks about making a new post about fixing power push*

*realizes he's posted about this in the past, does a search option and finds old post*

*posts on the old thread instead of creating a new one*



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Good job!

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Thanks!

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Why is everyone (well half of you ) against me for posting this. I posted to learn a little more about freaks and to see if this was ok to do or not cause I didn't want to get banned for doing these missions . I'm sorry for all the trouble that I have caused and I will try to not post stuff like this again

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lol ^^ It's okay don't even worry about it. Forum posters flock to threads like this. I'd worry more about programs that help make AE missions OUTSIDE of the City of Heroes program. If you get caught using them to make mission, you can get banned. And for good reason........ GOOD REASON.

I'd say go ahead and farm Freakshow, but avoid arcs that are obviously exploits. You'll know it when you see it.

http://i732.photobucket.com/albums/w...e/252mobs2.jpg Example

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I wouldn't call that an exploit ... I would call that insta death and a waste of time.

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The new meow is all sapper missions. Don't let out that I told you guys

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I'm immune to end drain ... I'll have to try that

Once upon a Positron there was a bug. It's purple Mankey liked saving walruses deaths. Until a green shoe fell off a pretty cloud of root beer fluff cleaving off seven little toes while chewing Bubblegum. After seeing the drunk Pinnacle-ite puke chunky bits of magnets, it stumbled into a garbage carafe. Feeling pretty depressed, it died a Lonely death.

Elsewhere, there were some hungry hippos dancing on me for every time one slurps from the fountain of Wayne. In the early dawn, sirens wailed under a pale little moon made of nothing. People thought they saw Ghost Widow munching on Doritos with Valerie. But it wasn't Doritos, it was a magical corncob that sexy Jay designed with care.

This time, she wanted 12 umpa-loompas and 5 slimy Pterodactyls with Listerine. Suddenly the wizard Spanksalot grumbled with great big annoyance. Dirty scoundrels sacked small vermin left by evil midgets wearing pink Fedoras and speedos. However, Elvis wasn't having cheesecake; he stopped to adjust Stacy's corset that had melted rubber down its frog but sadly, he died.

Before before,

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If it feels wrong it is. If what you are doing is questionable, dont do it.As in you thinking to yourself, should I do this? Is this wrong? Dont do it. It really isnt that hard

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When I need to ask myself these questions about a GAME, that is when I quit and find a new game.

Right now, I don't ask myself these, nor will I ever.

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Besides, people aren't leaving because of the closing of "exploits" (Meows? Not an exploit. Snake Eggs and the Vanguard Ouroboros flashback? Those are exploits.), they're leaving because of how badly the entire situation was handled.

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I just wanted to say QFT.

We can debate about whether or not we believe MEOW farms should or should not be counted as an exploit (personally I am on the fence on the issue, it may or may not be an "exploit" but it was certainly an abuse of the system), however the biggest issue is not what was done so much as how it was done. In my opinion it was handled very badly.

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You know, I never thought about this, but with the vanguard loophole, and the dev's not closing it up during that double xp weekend .... I actually went from lvl 1 to 50 in 8 hours on a toon. and made 3 other toons from 20ish to 46 ... Why not action back then?

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Second, how about you you proper english.


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Am I the only one who found this funny?

Once upon a Positron there was a bug. It's purple Mankey liked saving walruses deaths. Until a green shoe fell off a pretty cloud of root beer fluff cleaving off seven little toes while chewing Bubblegum. After seeing the drunk Pinnacle-ite puke chunky bits of magnets, it stumbled into a garbage carafe. Feeling pretty depressed, it died a Lonely death.

Elsewhere, there were some hungry hippos dancing on me for every time one slurps from the fountain of Wayne. In the early dawn, sirens wailed under a pale little moon made of nothing. People thought they saw Ghost Widow munching on Doritos with Valerie. But it wasn't Doritos, it was a magical corncob that sexy Jay designed with care.

This time, she wanted 12 umpa-loompas and 5 slimy Pterodactyls with Listerine. Suddenly the wizard Spanksalot grumbled with great big annoyance. Dirty scoundrels sacked small vermin left by evil midgets wearing pink Fedoras and speedos. However, Elvis wasn't having cheesecake; he stopped to adjust Stacy's corset that had melted rubber down its frog but sadly, he died.

Once upon a Positron there was a bug. It's purple Mankey liked saving walruses deaths. Until a green shoe fell off a pretty cloud of root beer fluff cleaving off seven little toes while chewing Bubblegum. After seeing the drunk Pinnacle-ite puke chunky bits of magnets, it stumbled into a garbage carafe. Feeling pretty depressed, it died a Lonely death.

Elsewhere, there were some hungry hippos dancing on me for every time one slurps from the fountain of Wayne. In the early dawn, sirens wailed under a pale little moon made of nothing. People thought they saw Ghost Widow munching on Doritos with Valerie. But it wasn't Doritos, it was a magical corncob that sexy Jay designed with care.

This time, she wanted 12 umpa-loompas and 5 slimy Pterodactyls with Listerine. Suddenly the wizard Spanksalot grumbled with great big annoyance. Dirty scoundrels sacked small vermin left by evil midgets wearing pink Fedoras and speedos. However, Elvis wasn't having cheesecake; he stopped to adjust Stacy's corset that had melted rubber down its frog but sadly,

Once upon a Positron there was a bug. It's purple Mankey liked saving walruses deaths. Until a green shoe fell off a pretty cloud of root beer fluff cleaving off seven little toes while chewing Bubblegum. After seeing the drunk Pinnacle-ite puke chunky bits of magnets, it stumbled into a garbage carafe. Feeling pretty depressed, it died a Lonely death.

Elsewhere, there were some hungry hippos dancing on me for every time one slurps from the fountain of Wayne. In the early dawn, sirens wailed under a pale little moon made of nothing. People thought they saw Ghost Widow munching on Doritos with Valerie. But it wasn't Doritos, it was a magical corncob that sexy Jay designed with care.

This time, she wanted 12 umpa-loompas and 5 slimy Pterodactyls with Listerine. Suddenly the wizard Spanksalot grumbled with great big annoyance. Dirty scoundrels sacked small vermin left by evil midgets wearing pink Fedoras and speedos. However, Elvis wasn't having cheesecake; he stopped to adjust Stacy's corset that had melted rubber down its frog