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  1. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus View Post
    Outside of maybe Captain Mako, I can't think off hand of any of the main Villains in game who would fit your definition of "revolting" - some examples here would be welcome.
    Well, like I mentioned before, there's always Doctor Vazhilok. Also, several of the Resistance Crusader contacts, even if they're not quite as "main." Hatchet's as bad as Westin Phipps.
  2. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
    I disagree, but it's very possible I didn't explain that well at all. When I divide villains between "glamorous" and "disgusting," I'm actually speaking more about the way in which they are written than specifically who and what they are. In a sense, it's more a regard for the story author than for the story characters. I've had the miserable misfortune to unwittingly read a few snuff comics in my youth, so I've developed a pretty keen sense for situations in which the author is simply using his story and characters to deliver shock and disgust to the audience, sometimes at the expense of the actual story itself. I don't know if that's because some authors get off on that (and considering the "genre" of most of the comics in question, I'd wager the answer is "yes") or if they're operating under the belief that true art is offensive, but I've seen that quite a few times.

    This, more or less, is where I draw the difference. Is this villain written to thrill and amaze me, or is he written to upset my stomach? And this can vary between writers writing for the SAME villain, mind you. In many ways, it comes down to a fundamental question to the writer in person: Do you actually LIKE your villains, or do you HATE them? Do you want to make your villains awesome and enviable, or do you want to destroy their image and make them hated and reviled? I ask, because I actually do like all of my villains, messed-up as they may be, but I don't get the same sense from everybody I come across.

    In some ways, it's like the old dichotomy of "horror vs. gore," and how one isn't necessarily synonymous with the other. There's a reason a new genre was coined recently, dubbed "torture porn," and why people will often complain that true horror no longer exists in movies today. I bring this up because building a decent, non-glorified villain is kind of like making a decent horror flick - you want something that's unnerving and scary, but at the same time exciting and interesting. Go too far in either direction and you end up with schlock.
    Ah, okay, I see what you mean then. In that case, I have fun with either side and actually most of my villains are more of the unglamorized side, even if a large percentage of them are (as I mentioned in my previous post) only there because of being literally inhuman instead of only figuratively. If I want to downplay the evil of a character but still have them be the Bad Guy, I usually make them into a rogue anyway.
  3. As a person who plays this game because it gives me enormous freedom to create interesting characters, I do both, because both ends of the villain spectrum can be equally interesting to me in a literary sense.

    I have made villains at the "disgusting" end: my most notable in my opinion is actually my Darkside KotOR II character, who is pretty much exactly what you described in your first post. There's only so many ways to play that character though, and it gets a little boring after a while, so while I wouldn't say I have many of the glamorous Bond- and Batman-villain types you put at the other end (I do have one or two though), I don't have many of the exact character you describe either.

    Actually, I don't think that the glamorous/disgusting continuum is a good way to describe it. The glamorous and disgusting categories you describe don't leave room for villains who have big, world-changing goals, powerful PR departments, the uncanny ability to keep coming back, and all the stuff you call glamorous but also have zero regard for human life, dignity, or beauty, and may be using all that power to shore up the empty, evil, depressing shell that you describe the "disgusting" villain as being. Characters like that are everywhere: Lord Voldemort, for instance, is a genocidal maniac and self-styled demigod with a cadre of minions and an obsession with grandeur, who tried to murder a baby because he'd heard that maybe the kid would grow up to be a threat, who thinks love, honor, remorse, and pretty much all concepts associated with good are delusions held by the weak, and who is driven by his own fear of death. I can't think which category to put a character like that in, but I'd lean towards the "disgusting" side. Others like this include the Jack Nicholson Joker (as opposed to Heath Ledger on the disgusting end and Mark Hamill/Bruce Timm on the glamorous end), Doctor Vazhilok (who's not far from what Voldemort would be if he were a mad scientist instead of a wizard), and Jabba the Hutt (you think he commits crime to help him sleep at night? Not unless it's smothering, or eating, a crying baby that's keeping him awake).

    But really, what I like to play when I go for "disgusting" is what you call the easy way out: villains that do disgusting, revolting, horrifying things because their minds are not human, so they simply think nothing of it. Ancient undead creatures, infectious sentient mind-control fungus, predatory beasts, and sea demons all do plenty of the despicable, dark, villainous stuff people ask for, and they feel wimpy if they don't. I do have some "glamorous" villains as well, because mad science is so much more fun that way.
  4. I want to know because I want to have a backup build in case my subscription lapses post-Freedom and my IOs stop working (yes, I know I have to pay to access the character while Premium, but it'd be a one-time fee and I'm okay with those). I'll use my Incarnate build and one of my normal builds for the IO'd Fort and NW builds I already have, and the other normal build for my oops-I'm-too-broke-to-pay-for-a-while SO build, so I can switch back to normal IO goodness when the money comes back. But since that leaves me with only one build to put SOs into, which progression should I go with? I'm leaning toward NW, but I'm never sure.
  5. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
    Actually, the Shivans borrowing the name of Shiva IS a coincidence.
    I meant the similarity between "Rularuu" and "Ularu," not the reference to Shiva.
  6. I am certain that the letters are from the Dream Doctor.

    The Coming Storm is clearly a Rularuu invasion (just read the lore on Shivans - "Shiva" is a world-devouring entity whose first warnings appeared in the shadow of Ularu [sic], and that can't be a coincidence). The Dream Doctor, though not exactly a "rogue" Midnighter, is sufficiently detached in his current state that he might as well be, and we know he's searching the Dreamspace* for a way to stop the Circle of Thorns from "ascending to ultimate power." The Circle is a major enemy group in not only in the Shadow Shard TFs but also THE enemy group in Twilight's Son's TF.

    Also, the Dream Doctor's writing "Why I Left and Why You Must Stay" is not only similar in writing style to the Letters but also mentions "something is coming and [he] must find it before it's too late" and that the Dream Doctor has "never been afraid to ask for help." I don't believe that his statement that it's "something [he] must do on [his] own" is sufficient evidence against his being the Letter Writer, either, since he follows it with advice to heroes (and villains!) to direct their own efforts to saving the world as well.

    Not to mention the Midnighters have a crystal.


    *Another notable bit of support considering Ayer's Rock (Uluru); just replace "space" with "time" to see the significance.

    Yeah, that's been my story for about a year now and I'm going to stick to it.


    EDIT: Ooh, ooh, and he even writes that he used a blade of some sort and shaved off a piece of himself! Fragmentary nature, and he calls Rularuu his counterpart - I bet Rularuu himself is an alternate-universe Dream Doctor who first drank from the Well, then continued to gain power all the way up to full godhood, which (as frequently happens with ex-mortals) resulted in madness. Everything is making more and more sense.
  7. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ironik View Post
    Well, he's not wearing anything. But he's also clearly not anatomically correct, so no biggie.
    Still doesn't make it any less stick-in-the-mind creepy. It'd actually be LESS creepy if he weren't wearing the shirt - the shirt only draws attention to it.
  8. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ironik View Post

    Uh... okay, I saw this screencap before, but didn't notice then... since his face uses the Metallic texture and thus implies the bright silver metal is his "skin," it looks like he's not wearing anything at all from the waist down and I can't unsee it.

    Meanwhile, I don't have any normal robot characters, but Silverwing Sentinel the ancient Oranbegan construct is as close to a robot as something that runs on magic can be - she's all clockwork and mechanical parts, the magic is just a power source:



    She was built to protect Oranbega, and "Oranbega" was defined in her programming mostly by the city's location. Today, Paragon City fits her definition (and old Oranbega doesn't - when she was built, Oranbega was ABOVE the ground), and she continues to use the name for the city that used to be for the city that is.
  9. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Soul_System View Post
    The only issue i see with this is that i dunno if they can separate the immob from knockback protection.
    You've never played Gravity Control, have you? I've got three with that set, and know from lots of experience that while most immob powers have a -KB effect, the two effects are not even slightly tied to each other.
  10. Quote:
    Originally Posted by NewScrapper View Post
    Sorry, it's settled. The new designs stay.

    Additionally, the villain group's name will be changed from "Circle of Thorns" to "Ow! Ow! Ow! Thorny!"
    I know, I still hate it.
  11. Not resetting the tray when you respec would probably be harder.

    I'm all for the save/load idea.
  12. Quote:
    Originally Posted by TrueGentleman View Post
    the new bosses are rendered in especially lurid color
    To be fair, some of them - neon-green Madness Mages, half-psychedelic Air and Fire Thorn Casters - were pretty lurid already.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Blue Rabbit View Post
    You didn't like the 1st design, ok. Devs opened it up for suggestions and altered it. Now, you still don't like it. Apparently, you haven't grasped that the CoT are going to be changed whether you like it or not. And no, they won't get their ugly, old, low detailed look again. It's a remake/revamped. It's not supposed to look the same. Get used to it. In about 6 months, no one will care or remember.
    Really? So if you drew up some concept art and made a lowish-rez 3D model of it designed for games many years ago, it becomes impossible to make a more modern, detailed, and high-tech rendition of the same image? I guess that Square/Enix updating this into this must have been a complete lie, then.
  13. For about a year, I've been playing a Grav/Kin controller called The Hour Thief. I will not be rerolling him - he's too much of a perpetual motion machine for me to want to do that, and he's also level 40 or so. I will, however, be making a second version of him that uses Time Manipulation, and if it proves fun enough I'll spend some Paragon Points on name changes so I can swap the primary name of "Hour Thief" to the new version and the secondary name of "Edmund Templeton" to the old one.

    Still wish Time had been default-colored gold...
  14. Quote:
    Originally Posted by T_Immortalus View Post
    I think a truly gold glow look would be awesome, but even the ouroboros portal looks more yellow.

    The teaser video and screenshot(the one I've seen) seem to imply a default green/white coloring for Time Manipulation powers.

    I'm not a fan of green, plus it doesn't scream "Time" to me, but white or purple are good looks in my opinion. I actually was expecting white and/or purple as the defaults considering the nature of time and the implications of those colors.

    Anyway, I just want plenty of color customization for this set, maybe a few alternate animations if they're feeling generous.


    Note:
    I'm definitely pretty happy with the powers and what they do so far. I've moved on to the visuals.
    I can't wait to play it.
    Bleaahh, the video AND the screenies? Hadn't seen the video. I was hoping they might have been displaying non-default colors, but it was a slim hope.

    There are a lot of preexisting temporally-themed characters who will be disappointed by this. "Time is gold!" seems to be a popular conclusion among players, myself included.
  15. The one question that remains: Is its uncustomized appearance, as the coloring of O-portals and the inventory icon of Temporal Sands salvage has been suggesting for long before the set existed, gold?
  16. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
    OK, so let me see if I'm keeping track: Purple is bad because it's pink and brown is bad because it's poo. I suppose we can add that greenish-yellow hue to the list because it looks like puke and... What other colours can we think of that always get made fun of?

    Slighly more seriously, it's a mage in a brown robe. How does that look like poo?
    I wouldn't say "poo," specifically, but I think that if they're going for brown and gold they need to a) incorporate some black to break up the merit-vendor-style color monotony (hands, upper arms, and legs would be good places; that would help emphasize the edges of the robe and make it look less like a cluttered mass), and b) pick a darker shade of brown and a duller shade of gold.

    Also, that doesn't look like the Madness Mage on page one... wtf? The green and purple one is much better.
  17. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Djeannie View Post
    I think all that really needs to be done is a few color changes to some of the CoT and the removal of a few of the spiky patterns here and there. Wouldn't need much at all really.
    Even just smoothing down some of the extra sticky-out bits on the robes' skirt portions would do wonders. If those points just didn't defy gravity quite so much, it would look a lot better IMO - make it look like elaborately-embroidered cloth, instead of an armored tasset. As a cosplayer, I can conclusively say that Cloth Does Not Behave That Way. Metal does, and leather can if you're skilled enough with it, but metal and leather aren't the kinds of things that Circle mages make entire outfits of, are they? At least, they weren't before.

    Also:
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TrueGentleman View Post
    The Circle of Thorns could give the Nemesis Army a run for its money in the "out of place" category the way things are going.
    Looking out-of-place is part of what makes Nemesis Nemesis. It reinforces how completely out-there he is, and how heavily brainwashed he's gotten his solders. I LIKE that the Nemesis Army looks as if it were designed by Phil Foglio. Like the Circle's extravagant robes, the Nemesis Army's bold and jarringly anachronistic costumes are what define their visual identity. As I see it, the Army is what Nemesis brings out when he absolutely does want to be seen (as opposed to the Automatons being sent out when he wants to go unnoticed) and over the past century or so, the distinct and unchanged Nemesis Army uniforms are what civilians and governments have grown to fear. That the uniform remains (presumably) exactly what it was when Nemesis first came onto the scene reinforces the idea that Nemesis is so invincible and so able to bend others to his will that he doesn't need to adapt.
  18. Well, they still look like WoW, but at least they look like the Circle again.

    Old designs are still better. Wish we could have just had the old designs with a little polish, but I didn't have my hopes up.
  19. Crosspost from a different thread, where I posted a counterpoint to someone's explaining that Valkyrie should not use any Valkyrie armor parts because they don't look techy enough:



    (Just pretend she has the correct chest detail and her spear, I didn't feel like shopping them in and I subsituted the Ring Strap).

    If both she and Battle Maiden could look more like this instead of like the ICON advertizement for the Valkyrie items that Battle Maiden is now, that'd be supercool. Also, removing the back-of-neck shield from Valkyrie's helmet as I put it together here would help it look sleek and techy. I just wanted to have the cheek guards represented, because they look good and Valkyrie has them now.
  20. Quote:
    Originally Posted by PhroX View Post
    I hope not...Valkyrie is supposed to be tech based (hence her current armour), not the fanatsy/historical look of the Valk pack. Not denying she needs redoing, but it should at least fit the character's backstory...
    Valkyrie armor and Tech-based are not mutually exclusive, used properly...



    Now just imagine she has her signature spear and chest strap instead of the Ring Strap, and there you have it.
  21. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Steelclaw View Post
    * The Spanish Inquisition: Any suprise appearance from a red-name in-game, because no one expects it.
    The best part of this is that not only does no one expect it, it retains its connection to the color red.
  22. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Djeannie View Post
    Here's what I'd do with Swan more or less.... Takes into account her current look, her magical/psionic origins and spruces her up a bit. The shoulder bits could stay or go...

    That looks fantastic! Fix Black Swan this way too!
  23. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Olantern View Post
    This bothers me, too. When I had Sheridan do a cameo in an AE arc, I resolved the problem by using a model that looked like neither of them. (Okay, I also did it that way to save memory ...)

    Another thing I find confusing is that both Aurora Borealis and Mother Mayhem have the body of Aurora Scott, yet they look different. The hair color could be explained as dye, but why the heck is Aurora's skin considerably darker than Mother Mayhem? Does standing outside in IP give that much of a tan?
    It's probably an optical illusion caused by Aurora Borealis wearing white (light contrast) while Mother Mayhem wears black and purple (dark contrast).
  24. You know who bugs me the most is Steven Sheridan.

    For years, he's looked like this: Probably about 60 years old judging by his lined face and steel-gray hair. This is what he looks like. This is the character they have established.

    Then, suddenly, the Going Rogue tries to tell me that this is the same person, despite obviously being twenty years younger. It's not even as if this is Praetorian Steven - when he introduces himself, he explains that he is from Primal Earth.

    And the original Steven Sheridan standing outside the hospital in Brickstown remains unchanged.

    WHAT.
  25. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Derangedpolygot View Post

    Ewwwwww...

    EW.

    Ew, ew, ew, EW.
    Sounds like you're in favor!