Firebomb

Not a reply to Circeus, per se, he was just last, and thus the most convenient. Heh.

I actually did hit test today, and checked out the 'new' traits of ice armor powers. I also tested the fire resist in permafrost and frozen armor - not bad for unslotted (I got the same numbers). So IF you chose to six-slot permafrost, you could actually get an appreciable fire resist overall; what, 40%? Not bad for an ice tank.

I didn't test out the toxic resist in permafrost though, 'cause I didn't actually have any handy toxic bad guys at level 50 to work with (though now that I think of it, I could've tried to find a nemesis sniper in my range... bah). Though again... I forgot if the extra toxic was actually added in. So eh.

One curiosity I'd like to bring to your attention is that, while frozen armor and wet ice have had the resistance enhancements removed from the list, glacial armor has not been similarly modified. I figure this was one of those simple errors-by-omission, but thought I'd bring that to your attentions.

Wow, a constructive post from me. Woot.

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Hibernate isn't really phased, the ice is there, CE and icicles are passive agressive. I agree that you shouldn't be able to do anything while asleep, but it's not our fault if everyone is cold and stabbing themselves.

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I like this idea.

I would also like it if you could at least teleport while hibernating. Every other phase power allows you to use travel abilities; sure, with Hibernate jumping and perhaps super speed would be... tricky. But if you can teleport in granite form, why not while hibernating?

At the very least, it would be nice to be able to juggle self-based powers like anybody else with a phase shift can. Running low in E? Turn off icicles and CE for a bit, until it's charged back up, then turn them BACK on before you emerge. Ta daa.

Power not so useless. And at least hibernate, a tier 9 PRIMARY power, would have more utility than a POOL POWER that anybody can get.

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In one case a group of +1 Family (5 minions and a lieut) brought me down to half health in a few seconds, but I think that was more just a few lucky shots, or could be their -Def.

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Another thing that I can't help but mention - are the 50 or so defense debuffs in the game being reduced or removed to reflect the similar reductions in every hero's +def values, or every non-fortitude +def buff? How it is fair for a defense-based character if just a few shots from some low-rent thugs reduce the entirety of their damage mitigation to zero or less?

How is this balanced? This is another thing I would like to be explained, but I don't think that anybody responsible for these changes can even do so. Why is it that there are 50 or so defense debuffs, but only, say, three resistance debuffs?

Please explain why a few hellions can eliminate completely a low level ice/stone tanker or SR scrapper's defenses, but almost any other defensive set is just fine against these foes.

I would appreciate an answer to this in addition to the arena quandry you have created.

It is. Though it's not the same game as it is on current.

On live, I could a) drain the tankers' endurance around me with EA, and then b) stand in their burn patch and mock them while they bounced on the ice patch, since my defense would be high enough that it wouldn't hit very often (at least, on a really big brawl, when a mob of burners swarmed me thinking i'd be an 'easy' target). And then I'd tag them again right after they get their toggles back on, etc...

I found that with four drain SOs you could cut a hero's end by about half (since its' effect is reduced in PvP, the drain). Much more efficient than those dumb detoggling effects, especially if your opponent is already low on E when fighting you.

With issue 5, you can detoggle them, but they can cook you alive (fire vs ice), since the +def is LAUGHABLE. As it is I think endurance drain is the only way to de-transform stone tanks or aliens. That may be an unpleasant surprise for a stone tanker... heh.

Of course, since my ice tanker's defense has been lowered to the point of true mediocrity thanks to this issue, there's no WAY I'm getting into the arena. Ever. Not unless they ALSO nerf every single hero's accuracy, not to mention every single +acc power like targeting drone, or focused accuracy. And accuracy SOs. Better nerf those too.

Because though EA is a nifty tool in PVP, the rest of ice armor isn't. And I don't know how that's supposed to be BALANCED, but ice tankers simply aren't going to be able to hack it in the i5 pvp thing. Much less when city of villains is interfaced with city of heroes.

Why ice tankers can't enjoy the SOLE content/gameplay that issue 4 provided, I don't know. Perhaps the developers can enlighten me on that one.

Quick question.

As much as EA was reduced in effectiveness, I have to say that the endurance boost it at least some compensation... sort of. But just going from the feel of it, why has the endurance COST of the power on test seemingly skyrocketed?

I do enjoy getting some endurance back to pay for the massively overblown cost of the toggles, but it seems that if I don't have about a quarter bar of end to start, I can't even power the thing to begin with.

Since this is seemingly the only way I can get SOME sort of defense against fire and toxic attack (and not a lot at that), why is it costing so much to run? Sure having one guy in it almost pays for the activation, but if I'm running real low and i"m out of blue inspirations, I can't fire it off anyway (real painful against, oh, every fire-wielding enemy in the 26+ game).

If this is meant to alleviate all of the endurance concerns of the ice armor set, I think it failed.

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It is in fact a wash from a "Damage mitigation per second" standpoint, provided the magnitude of the powers are identical. Either they're swinging at you X% less or you're taking X% less damage per hit.

However, it's ideal for a +DEF powerset because -DAM (Foe) is a lot like +RES (Self). Since Ice tankers have no Resistance defenses (i.e.: we take 100% of the damage that hits us), this means we can suddenly take more melee hits. That's one of the things we desperately needed to be able to do.

Also, the cool thing (pun intended) is that if you're debuffing a foe's damage capacity, it helps your whole team rather than just you. That's great from a Tanker role standpoint.

So, I for one welcome this lefthanded RES and think it's a wise shift.

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Personally, I'd prefer this effect were loaded into another like icicles. You know, getting chopped up while trying to reach the creamy filling makes it harder for you to actually hit, and the icicles deflect some of the force of incoming attacks blahblah.

Leave chilling embrace as the excellent tool it already is, and since icicles ALREADY costs a ridiculous amount of endurance to operate, a -dam (and perhaps -acc) effect could be completely justified without reducing from the power as it is already.

(edited because I broke the HTML somehow)

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a belated, polished talking head

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heh heh m heh heh

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But Invul doesn't get any Psionic Def either... so a debuff of Any% wouldn't make any difference at all.

How can you DeBuff 0%?

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Easy. You wind up with a negative defense value, making you even more likely to be hit.

Assuming I understand it right, when you are debuffed, it is applied as a negative sum, not a negative percentage of your existing defense. So say your Invulnerable guy (or mine) flicks on his or her unyielding, there's a 5% defense debuff. So against attacks you lack any defense to, you are at -5% defense. It's not like you lose 5% of your 0% defense.

This just means that the bad guy, instead of his base 50% change to hit you (assuming you're sticking to the even leveled minions like a good boy), has a 55% chance to hit. Which is sort of a double edged sword, as when you're fighting the psionic minions you REALLY want status protection.

Though if you have someone to give you that (stimulant, clear mind, that sonic clone of clear mind, or the big force field bubble) you can go without and get a 5% def 'bonus'.

(though again, if you've got an empath you can just have them give you fortitude for ridiculous psi def, and keep your unyielding on. Ah, tactics.)

Mind you, I may be incorrect on how the def debuff works, so if i am, feel free to mock me Meatman... heh.

(edited to clarify)

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I'm not sure if it even has a name. As far as I know, it's their group symbol.

Looks like a stylized anarchy symbol, if nothing else. (Very stylized.)

(For those who are wondering, there's a picture of it somewhere here.)

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The weird thing is that looks like one of the old planescape faction symbols for me - not exactly mind you, just in general style. I dunno if that's because I've been re-reading the stuff lately for use in a 'real life' game but eh.

Of course, The planescape references are all over the game anyway, even before Lord Recluse got his ... bits into it. heh.

Simple question.

Is there going to be a City of Villains comic also?

So all these ugly numbers beg the question.

Just what is the role of the ice tanker? Are they really just here to make the other tankers look good by comparison? Because they sure as hell aren't going to be tanking ANYTHING.

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can you really keep messing up powers so that people dont take them?

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Yep... look at ice armor.

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Because my tests would have shown had it been higher than 0.5, and I already had side confirmation (from a dev) that it was a miniscule amount. 1.36 would have registered in my tests especially since I was 5 slotted. 0.5 would not have registered, and since I didn't register anything for WI there you are.

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I know I'm supposed to only reply once here, but it just occurred to me - statesman keeps implying that defense/resist SOs are 33% (he seemed to in the sonic debuff thread, and then again here).

Is THAT the basis by which all defense/resist powers were reduced for issue 5? That they were supposedly getting a much larger boost from SOs? 33% versus 20% IS a big deal - a 120% boost versus a 200% boost for something six slotted.

A... 40% difference, in fact. Which seems to be what most defense powers were lowered by (save for ice armor, which got up to 90%, where wet ice is concerned). Hm... Call me paranoid...

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Wet Ice - six slotted with Defense SO's - provides about 3% defense.

Energy Absorption similarly slotted provides 3% per target (so a maximum of 42%).

*caveat - I'm doing this stuff from memory, so I'll doublecheck it and repost later if I'm wrong.*

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Since I only 'officially' have one post, I'm going to ask a lot of questions of you, for what it's worth.

First of all, this is the second place you've implied that defense SOs offer a 33% boost instead of just the 20% now. Is this or is this not the case? All the defense sets (force field, super reflex, ice armor) are doing a LOT worse than you seem to think if this is not, in fact, what is going on.

And nothing in the test server updates note a magical upgrade to defense SOs.

Secondly. How do you justify giving ice armor two additional weaknesses? With you reducing the defense boost of wet ice by NINETY PERCENT, you remove what little fire defense (not resist, but +def) that the ice armor set gets before EA.

This also wrecks the cold +def, but really, that's irrelevant.

AND, with EA smashed down to almost nothing (because we're not SUPPOSED to have 14 guys in melee now, right?) this also cuts the amount of fire defense ice armor gets - not to mention toxic defense.

Without a meaningful defense boost from energy absorption, ice tankers get no toxic defense to speak of. So since ice tankers are still stuck with an absolute vulnerability to psionic attack for absolutely no reason that isn't arbitrary or poorly thought out, they now ALSO get to deal with having little if any defense against fire and toxic attack. And an incredibly small amount of resistance to such, here and there, most of which they cannot enhance.

So tell me, how can you justify this sudden tripling of ice armor's already serious weaknesses? How is this balanced? Have you given fire tankers two more categories of damage they have minimal protection from? Or stone tankers? I hesitate to say invulnerable also got by without this, but their armors DID take a severe hit, when the mainstays of fire and stone are still alive and well.

And though I have many other questions, I'm going to leave you with this. Do you think, with all honesty, that you can play an ice tanker on an eight man task force, especially out in the shadow shard, and TANK for the team? And I'm talking random pick-up group here, not one that happens to include cookie-cutter rosters that include a bubbler and/or sonic guy?

And if you do think so, go for it, and let me know how it turned out.

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33% DEF Smash/Lethal
33% DEF Energy/Negative

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Note that this is six-slotted for defense. And also running wet ice, and possibly chilling embrace or icicles at any given time while tanking for a team, the endurance involved here is prohibitive - assuming you want to attack at all.

With the new change to EA being that it buffs your endurance INSTEAD of defense, as seems to be the case on test, I may now slot this for 6 defense buffs, instead of 5 defense buffs / 1 end reducer, but I haven't made up my mind yet.

Either way, I still have to six slot Stamina to avoid panting my way through jobs.

But the point is, for the massive endurance cost involved, The most +def ice armor provides is that you can get from a Good Luck inspiration. And it has holes, big holes. Why is it that any character can go fill up on enough purple pills at 50 influence a pop to complete any mission, and have the effective +def of an ice tanker?

I actually did this on a few missions on test with my ice tanker. Sure, +25% defense from lucks isn't as good as +33% defense from a good luck, but since it ALSO gives me defense to the THREE GLARING HOLES in my armors, the net result is more overall protection.

You know, +33% def to only four damage types versus +25% def to all seven (since it's non-specific +def, it avoids the 'we haven't bothered to code toxic defense since we introduced it in issue 2 or 3 or whatever' problem, and the psionic damage problem, and the fire damage problem).

By stocking up on purple pills as I go (burning off other inspirations as I found them) I could keep going quite a while before I had to hit a contact and stock up. At, coincidentally, about the same rate I would need to stop and sell enhancements.

This seemed to involve a lot more micro-management of my defenses, but it was just as viable. As such, in order to make ice tankers not massive end hogs that only have the benefit of a melee slow and extra hit points above what amounts to a luck inspiration, something needs to change from what you've got on test.

Solution 1: Fix Ice Tankers. You've got to give them enough defense to floor an even-leveled minion. At least. This will let them do their missions, on HEROIC, without getting hit 1/5 of the time for full damage. Unless it's a fire or psi or toxic attack, I suppose, at which point their getting hit 1/2 of the time, and then only have negligible or no resistance to the successful hit.

I was running missions on heroic on test, and was getting beat up MORE than I was on invincible on 'live'. And this just tanking for ONE person. Unless that one person is a defender or controller, there's no way an ice tank can do their job under these conditions. Well, I guess there is, but it depends on what the tanker's secondary is.

I was trying to leave ice patch out of this since it's an ice melee power, and not ice armor. Though I still believe this power should be in the ice armor primary, and that's a discussion for another day.

Solution 2: Build some +res inspirations. Let the ice tanker do the same thing any other character can do to duplicate their lousy +def (as it stands on test) with resistance. Worried about being one-shot by that AV? Pop a 'rugged' inspiration or whatever you want to call it. Problem? Problem solved.

Sure that AV will hit you for damage that can one-shot you about 1/2 of the time (75% acc - 33% def if you're lucky enough to get one that uses the four attacks you have +def for) - but you've got +res pills now!

Solution 3: NERF DEFENSE INSPIRATIONS. That's right, you heard me. Aside from fortitude (which I feel unfairly avoided being reduced in the name of this 'global' change, and where's the BALANCE in that?), defense inspirations completely avoided this round of 'global' defense reductions.

Minimally, lower them by the same rate that all the other +Def powers seem to have taken a hit. I don't honestly know exactly how far these have been lowered, as reports seem to vary, but make it so you have to take the really BIG purple pills to match the defenses of the +DEF TANKER.

You can only get those by fighting really tough enemies, or doing Kora fruit jobs, after all. And neither of those solutions are dependable -unless you farm the fruit farming jobs, I guess. But... why? You'd still have to use them to get through the job, especially with rulaaruarru having such huge accuracy (which is taking a hit somewhat, I s'pose).

Solution 4: I guess just leave Ice Armor as is, but you have to rename it. I've read elsewhere that as the lead designer, you want players to make informed decisions about their characters and subsequent power choices. So I propose you change ice armor's name as follows:

Make it "Status Protection and Extra Health Plus Good Luck Inspirations, -Fire, -Psi, -Toxic, With More Endurance Problems Than Any Other Tanker" If you change the name such, players will know that if they really want to defend their teammates as a TANKER, they'll pick something else.

This saves you a lot of work, after all! This way you only have to balance three tanker primaries instead of four. Though I guess it's not like anything has been done to improve ice tankers or their laundry list of problems since the game was released, save for the stacking armors.

Oh, and making EA a joke in issue 4. "Infininte Defense", indeed.

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It's my faith that Christianity is 100% true, and other faiths are 100% false.

But I haven't written several nasty posts declaring that.

Whatever faith any human follows, it is quite clear that your heart is filled with
hatred. Your writing isn't aimed at convincing people they are misguided; your
writing is hate speech trying to get others to agree with your hate.

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Heh. Am I the only one that finds this amusing? "You should take back your hateful speech, because your faith is FALSE!" Oy.

And as far as not making several posts about it, you made the one, and that's enough for me to show me the real you.

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Heh ... that's good stuff. I wish they had conferences here in Omaha so I could meet Jack ... unfortunately there's not much cool here besides me

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Oh noes, Havok lives in Omaha too?

You know, if they WANTED to phase such a system in, the easy way to do it would be to switch the prices between what a STORE charges and what your CONTACT charges. It's always nice that my contact sells ALL the SOs I need, but why bother with them when I can get them for what, 30 percent less at a regular store?

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Never mind the fact that Force Fielders actually have a straight-out direct damage attack in their Primary. That alone -no matter whether you like or dislike it- would lead any reasonable person to presume that they were not meant to just stand around and update their bubbles every few minutes, End allowing of course.

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Wow, you've never played a forcefielder have you

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ZOMG bubblers have force blast NERF THEM!

Now that, that is the funniest thing I've read all day. "straight out damage attack" indeed. Change it to work like Nemesis' force blast, sure. But ... oy.

Just a simple question, but if you're concerned about people not 'needing' defenders, why build villains that specifically neutralize the most useful portion of a defender's primary?

I've been playing any character BUT my force field defender lately, because he CANNOT GET A TEAM. People who know how force field work won't grab you for a job against either devouring earth OR circle of thorns from 35-39, because those villain groups make those bubbles WORTHLESS.

The only powers the quartz emanators or uber-quicksand don't immediately neutralize are the detention field and the bevy of knockback powers - one of which was specifically mentinoned to be intended as 'highly situational'.

The only way I can get my force fielder on a team is if some power leveler wants me to buff his herder, and we all know how exciting THAT is.

> Also, a self-rez.

Aha! I knew I forgot something.

I'd build it now but then someone would catch on... heh.

Oddly, I saw the potential to build a strangely accurate duplicate of that Star Brand guy with a peace bringer (other forms notwithstanding). For those of you (most of you i bet) who don't know him, he was a 'new universe' fellow that had a weapon that imbued him with a strange sort of 'energy body' within, that allowed him super strength (those melee thingies), flight, energy blasting, and of course he had a pretty nifty nova too.

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Am I the ONLY one that really LIKED the Blue King comic? To me, it was great because we could BE these guys. In a few occasions, thanks to contests, we WERE those guys!

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it's not just you. I truly enjoyed the first comic. i thought it got off to a rough start, but what comic doesn't these days? While it's flashier, the new one is just 'eh'. That and i'm biased against the new writer... heh.

So looking at this...

Put a cap on the max defense you can gain from Energy Absorption.
* There was no cap. Allowed you to have infinite defense.

I wonder if this mean the 'limited to 5 foes' isn't happening, or if that IS the limit? Stupid extended down time... inquiring minds want to know!

Of course, I thought the point initially was to NOT put a cap on EA's defense. Maybe that was easier/less bug-riddled.

Not necessarily a reply to anybody here, but I was just curious if we have any confirmation or not about EA's change coming about due to the ... poor ... testing ground that was used to investigate regen last week or so?