Filth_EU

A few things that jump out -

You've got no control power except for Char until level 22, and Char only has 4 slots. I would always 6 slot the ST hold. Getting Hot Feet that early with almost no control will get you killed constantly unless you are teaming with another dom, I would at least swop Flashfire and Hotfeet around in the build.

You might want to consider Hasten since your main control are those two slow-ish recharging AoE controls, flashfire and cinders; I think you will have problems with group control without Hasten.

Wouldn't those extra slots in Health be better in Char?

Plant/Anything would be a good starter, although a downside of Plant control is that it doesn't offer much beyond the two basic AoE controls - Seeds and Creepers.

I think you're better off with a different secondary if you want more of a fun ride - Thorns offers very little in the way of secondary effects which help you out and its the slowest to build domination, the upside is that the damage gets good (probably second best below fire) and it has impale which is a good pvp control power. Looking at the other sets, with Psi you get a heal and +recovery +regen power and a great late AoE attack plus tons of -Recharge, Ice is reasonable damage with huge -Recharge, Fire is huge damage. Energy and Ice both have Power Boost which will help the primary.

I like Thorns, but it's not very friendly to play.

Good point, although domination will break through a single tactics buff which means a group of dominators using confuse powers can bust through an equal number of tactics using heroes, given domination.

One of the things about confuse and fear powers I've noticed though, is that in PvP they are primarily defensive and not offensive control powers. Confuse is an especially bad opener Vs a hero since the sensible response for the target is to dis-engage, equally it is reasonably easy to escape from a fear control since you can usually super-move away from attack under the influence of Fear. Confuse *can* be very effective as a 'surprise' attack against a group of heroes in a huddled fight against villains since a couple of accidental hits from scrappers can take out one or two of their own side in seconds. [img]/uk/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

From the Prima guide Tactics only provides resistance against Fear not protection, so fear should have a decreased duration but targets may still be affected; whereas Tactics provides both protection and resistance against Confuse.

I don't know how sensible this is but I have Seeds slotted 3 Acc, 2 Conf, 1 Recharge. The base duration is 30 seconds, compared to 12 seconds for Spore Burst (according to Prima). It's certainly possible to keep a bunch of +3 mobs continually confused.

I'm sure you will take great offence to this but it sounds like you don't have much knowledge of Dominators, which isn't necessarily your fault since they have been fairly scarce. The most recent change to domination is live by the way, with the last patch.

I've been playing one for months in the zones and on the whole they are a successful AT to play. With the previous change to domination buildup in PvP and PvE I've seen more of them around, so I'm not the only one playing one. I'm honestly getting a bit bored of the "doms suck" routine and it's not my job to educate people about them.

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...or a blaster, defender, or a controller, or (most) corruptor, or (most) masterminds; in fact with the change to domination, the mez protection for Dominators is now pretty good.


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I apologize for the offtopic, but the problem is that
a.) you have to build domination up - see part c.
b.) you need to have it running
c.) then comes a scrapper and 3-shots you, bye bye domination, see part a.


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This is not correct, you can use Domination like a BF to break a mez condition if you choose. The mez protection is pretty good compared to other squishies since very few have mez protection (exceptions being some corrs and some MMs), it's also available at any level, not just as a high level Ancillary power, which it is as least as good as.

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I was in sirens once with my lvl 24 dom. I exited mission with full dom bar, but it lowered like 2% by the time I saw a scrapper. By the time I had fired 2 attacks to get dom up, activated domination, tried to stack 2 holds (one of em telekinesis) and before the second hold had fired I was dead. Way cool - not.


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I'm fully aware of the difficulties of fighting scrappers. Given the fact that it's possible for almost any scrapper to kill almost any squishy with a single attack chain I can't see how this is unique to doms.

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Its better imo to implement my suggestion and let domination bar progress persist thru death. Its not even wrong conceptually since nobody actually dies in this game.. Its not overpowered since it resets itself after you use it. This is merely a way to ensure that you CAN use domination every once in a while in PvP.


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Never going to happen. It's actually pretty unbalanced since fighting a dom for a short time and then defeating it leaves you open to a domination attack if it then gets a rez and fires off a few more attacks, in which case leaving mezzing/detention fielding a dom is preferable to defeating one; it would also raise other issues like Fury for Brutes, and pets for MMs for example.

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I feel I pretty much NEED acrobatics just to compete using a dominator. Its not as great as you have been led to believe though, and my dominator is often out controlled by "melee" AT's which is a very tough one to swallow.

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Its a lot easier for a tank to hold a dominator [snip]

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...or a blaster, defender, or a controller, or (most) corruptor, or (most) masterminds; in fact with the change to domination, the mez protection for Dominators is now pretty good. I've never relied on Acrobatics for hold resist, but its very useful for defence against knockback

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Hmm. I could have sworn it was AoE... at least it seems to cast them in a very quick succession. I'll keep an eye on it next time I play my Plant.

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uh, you're right, this is what comes from doing your tests in pvp ;P if the power hits you it's listed as "Entangle" but it's actually an AoE power. I originally thought it was AoE when I first used FlyTrap, tested it in the PvP and thought it's just a fast recharging ST immob, like entangle. I've tested it again with a MM, turns out it is an AoE version of Entangle, jeje, oops.

Bite is definitely the most damaging ST attack which does about 30% more damage than the ranged attacks, although Fling Thorns is a cone.

FIVE slots in Seeds of Confusion and SIX in Fly - what kind of a sick ....btw apparently Swift boosts fly speed now.

Psychic Scream has -40% recharge according to Prima 0_o, Poisonous Ray has -15% resistance...pretty good.

Yes, Flytrap does stop Knockdown when using entangle, but it is single target, given enough time though it will cast this at multiple targets, which can get annoying. That said the immob doesn't last long (as long as you don't slot it!!) and Flytrap *also* has Thorny Darts and Fling Thorns which is a decent attack and a Cone AoE, which is nice. It's best attack is the Bite though - damage is between Skewer and Ripper, which makes it decent enough to have. It will only use the Bite in melee so if you want it to use the Bite, resummoning next to your victim works well.

The reality is, it's the worst pet there is for both control and damage - which still doesn't mean it's "bad", the choice for me was either the FlyTrap or another control power. Maybe next respec FlyTrap stays in the greenhouse and Spirit Tree or Spore Burst or Vines come into play.

Don't have much to say about power choices, all seems pretty good, only comments would be about slotting. DefUser I know didn't take Psychic Scream in his Grav/Psi toon - I think he posted comments in my plant/thorn post if you want to read what he posted, seems like he knows Psi well. You will need to get into melee and stay there but flying should be ok.

Psionic Dart - I'd put at least 2 slots for ACC in here, maybe even 3 for PvP since it's critical that your assault powers hit the target to get the +8 for domination.

Other comments about slotting are more about what to put in there rather than number of slots so...doesn't matter :P

I pretty much agree with Under_Control about FlyTrap, I've considered dropping it, however, it's a great aggro taker when soloing and the damage shouldn't be underestimated. The way I view it is that it's at least one more pretty good attack at very low endurance cost, with my build I couldn't fit in another attack into my standard MO anyway.

I *might* consider getting medicine pool instead of leadership. Spirit Tree, Health and Drain Psyche work out to 640% regen which is 100% regen every 37.5 seconds...I think.

I'm interested! If we're doing a low level leveling up thing, I have a lowbie Ice/Psi, around level 12 I think. My server preference is Union.

Also...could we do a hand count of the *highest* level dominator everyone has and their powersets?

I have Bilharzia at 50, Plant/Thorn/Mu.
Main controls fully slotted are Strangler (ST Hold), Seeds of Confusion, Carrion Creepers (aggro magnet, slow and knockdown), also the ST Immob Entangle.
I don't (currently) have Spore Burst (sleep), Vines (AoE Hold), Spirit Tree (+Regen), nor Roots the AoE Immob.
I took the Mu Armour, Power Sink and Mu pet. Main attacks are Skewer, Impale, Ripper, Thorn Barrage, all 6 slotted, also have Aim.

I've got 2 respecs available to test stuff with so if there's a potent control combination that comes up I might change powers.

I'm not sure Power Push is worth slotting for damage, if I took it I would go for ACC plus Recharge and use it with Air Superiority for a knockdown chain (changing Hover for Air Sup). I also don't think it's worth 3 slotting Health.

Since you can get Bone Smasher at level 2 and it's your best attack for a long while I'd try to get it much earlier.

Are you sure it's a good idea to get Flashfire that late? Gives you very little control except for Char until level 28. Fire Cages will just get you killed used on its own. I'd try to get Aid Self in there as soon as you can, you're going to get hit a fair bit.

This is from my chat log from a /whoall so not everyone is listed about the time people started leaving -

Heroes
08-06-2006 20:52:02 Dwayne Pipe lvl 50 clvl 50 Science Warshade
08-06-2006 20:52:02 reborn phoenix lvl 50 clvl 50 Natural Peacebringer

08-06-2006 20:52:02 death shocker lvl 50 clvl 50 Mutation Blaster
08-06-2006 20:52:02 Electra Spark lvl 50 clvl 50 Science Blaster

08-06-2006 20:52:02 Ellie lvl 50 clvl 50 Natural Defender
08-06-2006 20:52:02 Enervator lvl 50 clvl 50 Technology Defender

08-06-2006 20:52:02 Major Hazard lvl 50 clvl 50 Technology Scrapper
08-06-2006 20:52:02 Paul Hewitt lvl 50 clvl 50 Mutation Scrapper
08-06-2006 20:52:02 Escalus lvl 48 clvl 50 Magic Scrapper
08-06-2006 20:52:02 Kharn lvl 50 clvl 50 Science Scrapper
08-06-2006 20:52:02 Doc Scrapper lvl 50 clvl 50 Natural Scrapper
08-06-2006 20:52:02 El Camino lvl 50 clvl 50 Natural Scrapper
08-06-2006 20:52:02 Smooth-Scrapper lvl 50 clvl 50 Magic Scrapper
08-06-2006 20:52:02 coston lvl 45 clvl 50 Magic Scrapper
08-06-2006 20:52:03 mr brawl lvl 42 clvl 50 Science Scrapper
08-06-2006 20:52:03 wonga wonga lvl 50 clvl 50 Magic Scrapper
08-06-2006 20:52:03 Wombat King lvl 50 clvl 50 Mutation Scrapper

08-06-2006 20:52:02 Elsa Prinsessa lvl 50 clvl 50 Natural Controller
08-06-2006 20:52:02 Nightstalker. lvl 50 clvl 50 Magic Controller
08-06-2006 20:52:02 Kaya lvl 50 clvl 50 Mutation Controller
08-06-2006 20:52:03 SCOBION lvl 50 clvl 50 Science Controller
08-06-2006 20:52:02 WhiteBunny lvl 50 clvl 50 Magic Controller

08-06-2006 20:52:02 Salacious lvl 50 clvl 50 Mutation Tanker
08-06-2006 20:52:02 Stone Avenger lvl 50 clvl 50 Natural Tanker
08-06-2006 20:52:02 amazing red lvl 50 clvl 50 Natural Tanker
08-06-2006 20:52:02 Amazing Boi lvl 50 clvl 50 Science Tanker
08-06-2006 20:52:02 Dynamo . lvl 50 clvl 50 Mutation Tanker
08-06-2006 20:52:02 Dark Hutch lvl 50 clvl 50 Mutation Tanker

Villains
08-06-2006 20:52:01 Gutts lvl 48 clvl 50 Technology Stalker
08-06-2006 20:52:02 Salome lvl 50 clvl 50 Mutation Stalker
08-06-2006 20:52:02 Blindfaith lvl 45 clvl 50 Magic Stalker
08-06-2006 20:52:02 Hellghast lvl 45 clvl 50 Technology Stalker
08-06-2006 20:52:02 Dark Assailant lvl 50 clvl 50 Magic Stalker
08-06-2006 20:52:02 Zuroth lvl 50 clvl 50 Mutation Stalker
08-06-2006 20:52:03 Icy Hidden Moon lvl 41 clvl 50 Natural Stalker

08-06-2006 20:52:02 Supa Dupa Troll lvl 43 clvl 50 Natural Brute
08-06-2006 20:52:02 Quarks lvl 50 clvl 50 Mutation Brute
08-06-2006 20:52:02 swilly lvl 42 clvl 50 Natural Brute
08-06-2006 20:52:02 999call lvl 44 clvl 50 Technology Brute
08-06-2006 20:52:02 Slitherien lvl 46 clvl 50 Mutation Brute
08-06-2006 20:52:02 BoBiNe lvl 50 clvl 50 Mutation Brute
08-06-2006 20:52:02 Truck lvl 50 clvl 50 Science Brute
08-06-2006 20:52:03 Dark Rigante lvl 45 clvl 50 Technology Brute
08-06-2006 20:52:03 Devils Henchman lvl 46 clvl 50 Mutation Brute

08-06-2006 20:52:02 Bilharzia lvl 50 clvl 50 Mutation Dominator
08-06-2006 20:52:03 Lord Violator lvl 50 clvl 50 Mutation Dominator
08-06-2006 20:52:03 Night Tricker lvl 49 clvl 50 Mutation Dominator

08-06-2006 20:52:02 Doc Devious lvl 50 clvl 50 Technology Corruptor
08-06-2006 20:52:02 sin-eater lvl 50 clvl 50 Mutation Corruptor
08-06-2006 20:52:02 Ice Blight lvl 43 clvl 50 Science Corruptor

08-06-2006 20:52:02 Chained Angel lvl 50 clvl 50 Mutation Mastermind
08-06-2006 20:52:02 Nitro v. IV lvl 50 clvl 50 Technology Mastermind
08-06-2006 20:52:03 Pesimist lvl 43 clvl 50 Science Mastermind

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I even managed to die in the hospital. [img]/uk/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

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That may have been my fault, Carrion Creepers is a bit buggy it continues to damage after you die. Sorry.
[img]/uk/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Thanks to a couple of villain gank squads turning up, the whole badger event was ruined [img]/uk/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
As it was it turned into a big messy pvp fight for control of the zone. [img]/uk/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

May I ask a question - if you're interested in PvP why not read the PvP section?
...and maybe post there with a more descriptive title, which you don't need to because...
Same thing posted a week ago.

I've tried Thugs up to 32, but no experience with dark miasma. The pistol attacks are pretty bad for the endurance cost with Empty Clips being the worst; if you absolutely must have a pistol attack I would get Dual Wield instead - I ended up respeccing out of the pistols completely, if you use them you almost certainly will want stamina.

The Thugs are best used ranged except the Bruiser who is best used with a Goto command to send him and keep him in melee, he gets very good post 32.

The answer to your question is - no one thinks like you do.

Do you want people to divine why you think like you do? Light Petting has already pointed out power sets are shared by Defenders and Corruptors, if anything Corruptors are more lethal since they have more aggressive debuff powers. There are many more Defender players who are experienced in PvP than there are Corruptor players with the same experience - that is pretty much your answer. Corruptors are very good in PvP if played well, same as any AT.

If I'm playing as a hero the last on my list as a threat is a Stalker, not because they aren't potentially a good AT but because there are hordes of rubbish Stalker players. Corruptors are as good as anything else.

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How many times in this thread does it have to be said, Aid Self is NOT overpowered. It's the use of power boost with it that's a problem.

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I don't think Psydock (the OP) is especially interested in what a "forum" is (a place for open discussion) since he has not responded at all to any of the arguments presented or the discussion and seems content in repeating what he originally said with longer sentences; pretty ironic but I think most people reading this would conclude if there's an issue it is with Power Boost and not Aid Self.

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to watch stacked holds fail to even slow some one down a little (slotted 2 acc's 3 hold durations 1 recharge) with domination is crazy.

I think there is a serious issue with domination, ok i face the fact that res to holds is in shielded builds and i dont have a problem but from what i have seen it has no effect at all unless its used on a blaster (if they dont have enough to content with).

I thought that domintion (when rdy) was hard to resist and stacked would work but to having seen ppl walk through it with no effect everytime surely means theres something wrong.

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The thing with trying out fighting in the zones is that you may have very little information about what is going on with the person you are fighting, or in fact what is going on with your own powers.

In my own experience Domination is working to provide a significant boost to Hold and other magnitude for control powers. My guess about what is happening to you is that your targets may have some buffs in addition to their shields - for example, they are using Break Frees or Strength of Will inspirations, they are being buffed by Clear Mind, Increase Density, Am, Clarity, or even the Stimulant power from the Medicine Pool (anyone can take this power) all of which will increase mez resistance which will help Vs. Domination boosted Holds.

Even with Domination you need two successful Holds to hold a scrapper, if you take an Inv Tank or a Stone Tank you need to overcome a mez resist of 30+ I think - if they are running either UY and Unstoppable or Rooted and Granite which takes 4 or 5 Holds (can't remember exactly offhand) which is possible for a Dominator to do - just; if either of those tanks has a mez buff, you won't be able to Hold them solo but this seems to me to be reasonable - a single dominator should struggle Vs 2 hero toons if one of them is buffing the other, or a hero toon has to use inspirations to beat domination. This seems reasonable 'balance' to me.

So without knowing what was going on with your targets, it's difficult to make judgements about what is happening to your control powers even with Domination. Don't forget that your assault powers get a significant damage boost during domination - you now should be doing blaster level damage this can allow you to take out a melee toon even without a hold working.

There are a few toons which are very very hard to fight solo at high level with my dominator, the stand out for me would be Spines/SR. I can hardly hit with my assault powers (so won't build up Domination) and they do enough damage to kill me pretty quickly unless I do nothing but run. Other Dom types might do better since plant/thorns isn't very forgiving in PvP.

Domination does work in PvP, playing a Dominator is hard though you have to know when to fight and when to disengage, some fights are just unwinnable, some fights you will win every time, some are more interesting and even - keep playing!

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But doesnt CE also stop working when you get the crash?

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CE definitely stops working during Rage crash - it might still be taunting though from the last tick, I've noticed the same thing as Unthing, a group around you will generally keep attacking then might lose interest near the end of crash-time.

I made a very simple correction to a list of debuffs you made about Granite. Why is it that the onus is on me to demonstrate that web guides (and Hero Builder) are wrong when there's no evidence in game of any -Acc?

I have tested Granite accuracy before, this issue has come up recently:
(under the sneaky title "Does granite have -Acc too??")
here
everyone who responded (including Bridger) suggested there is no -Acc. I've not experienced any -Acc like behaviour with Granite, never heard another Stone tank talk about it, never read about it, didn't reveal a problem when I tested it.

The last time I actually posted my test results about the phantom, guess what "-Acc in Brute attacks" the response I got was "oh actually, I expected the accuracy to be a lot higher than those figures suggest", when my figures showed no issue with accuracy. That person then suggested that maybe with a run of 100,000 attacks they'd be convinced. You know what? (I chortled), can't say I'm that bothered.

I'm no expert on stone armour and never claimed to be (if anyone is it's Dr.Rock), I've just been through these arguments a number of times. When I said "I'm the source" I might just have easily said "YOU are the source" - in other words, test it yourself and don't take my word for it. The point is Accuracy is not that difficult to test if you have the Herostats bean counter running away.

Hey, did you know Invincibility has a -Recharge debuff? Seriously, it does, prove me wrong....what's your source?

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Seems that taking the immob for PvP (for Plant Control) seems more critical.

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Doesn't matter, jumping up and down cancels the immob as well, I had stacked holds, immobs, boing boing boing, nothing. In fact I had strangler, entangle, impale all hit, nothing, boing boing boing.

That said I'd like to do more tests with the target taking some other action rather than just bouncing up and down.

"Rise of the Puk" helped me with testing this so thanks to him.

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Wouldn't you agree though, that Powerboost benefits Heroes a lot more than Villains? It would be a different story if Corruptors had access to Powerboost, which they don't. In Heroes, Blasters, Controllers and Defenders have access to it, so you can understand how it can give them a massive advantage.

And the discussion was never about if Powerboost is better than Domination. There is no question that Domination is infinitely better than Powerboost on a Dominator, but that's also because Dominators get a lot less benefit out of Powerboost compared to some of the Hero AT's.

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Yes I agree ...just edited my post above.

I would say that the villain inherents (Domination being a big one) are one of the tradeoffs for not having some of the specific Ancillary powers