Filth_EU

It's an interesting power combination; the defender for Team Redemption, the bantam team I was in for S4, was Dark/Dark (Zwerman, Luudo on these boards) and he was very effective. Dark does have some sneaky bonuses, like the resistance in Shadowfall does look pretty good vs Energy.

Defenders can be key in PvP, although I don't think Dark Miasma is the strongest say compared with Radiation or Storm. The fact that it has a Hold in Petrifying Gaze (which has nothing to do with fear, it's a standard Hold), the quasi-hold in Stare, and the fear resistance in Shadow Fall are probably the standout powers in PvP.

The problem with Dark is that it offers the least buffage and the de-buffs are a bit iffy, like you say the -Acc which I wouldn't say is weak but not awesome compared with the other sets; getting hit with Lingering Radiation and it's like being taken out of the game.

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The single hold is just the same in every troller set but with different secondary effects. You shouldn't be able to hold a boss in one try...'cept if it crits which doesn't happen very often. Why should accuracy have anything to do with this?

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Well I dont have any problem holding bosses +3 or +4 with my other trollers (actually that's what kept me alive often, tbh), and with my ice/emp I really can't hold -5s.
I thought the critics was just for scrappers, but if u say holds do crit, then I've learnt something new.
... And I'm not sure I understand the last sentence about accuracy not having anything to do with success in holding a boss at first try... I'm quite possitive that the higher ur acc is, the more chances to effectively hold

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This has to do with Magnitude - if you want to Hold a target you have to overcome their Mag resistance to Holds (or whatever mezz applies).

All single target controller Holds have a Mag of 3, Bosses have a Mag resistance of 3 - this means it usually takes two appplications of a Hold to successfully Hold bosses. Controllers have a small chance to critical their Hold which increases it to a Mag of 4 which allows you (rarely) to Hold a boss with one hit. In general Minions have a Mag strength of 1, Lts a Mag strength of 2. The Mag principle applies to other mezz effects such as Stuns, Immobs, Fear, Sleep and so on.

The Accuracy of a Hold attack just determines whether you hit the target or not, if you successfully hit then the Mag is calculated - if you miss it doesn't matter how strong the Hold power is, you've missed.

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you are free to disagree with me, each is free for his own opinion.

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Could we drop the 'your opinion' 'my opinion' nonsense? It's perfectly obvious things I state are my opinion.

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though:
topic title: Best Tank (good better best)
First line: what sort of tank should i start
so my question-stating is correct.


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I was responding to your 'Imho PvP should not be considered into the question 'whats a good tanker' - so you think I should simply not comment?
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i found pretty good ways to get around in PvP zones, specialy in the cap30(or was it 31?) zone where GA isnt even available.


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Pre-Granite you have Rooted as your mezz protection, which is as limited as GA for movement.

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Besides PvP is still a additional feature of the game, you dont have to play it and per definition not every player is going PvP.

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You don't have to do TFs, Trials, Cape mission, Aura mission, go into the Hollows, go into the Shard get any of the Accolades - or in fact take any missions at all - but those things are still there.

I made a very simple point - Stone's (and especially GA) lack of mobility is a disadvantage in PvP, and the fact that it can't be toggle-dropped is an advantage. Why you think I shouldn't comment on this is beyond me.

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Imho PvP should not be considered into the question 'whats a good tanker'

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That wasn't the question of the poster - and I disagree with you anyway - but moving on, the question was 'what sort of tank should i start..?'.

When I started with a Stone tank PvP didn't exist, now it is part of the game and the limitations (and benefits) of Stone in PvP are pretty clear. The movement limitations of GA are far less a problem in PvE than PvP and this is something a new player should know about.

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I should explain that HP tends to team with his SG mates, and as such there are always damage dealers in the team - subsequently I am leaving the attacks until later and will very likely be slotting them for Accuracy and Taunt only. I appreciate that at present soloing with this guy would be like watching paint dry


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I still think not slotting your main attacks as a tank is a mistake. Knockout Blow is an awesome attack, combined with Rage it makes you a very very potent attacker and you get it at level 20. Don't forget you'll be the one standing toe-to-toe and pummeling that Elite Boss/AV, do you really want to neglect such a massive attack?

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One question, is Earth's Embrace better slotted for heals and rchg or for Toxic resist?

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3/3 recharge/heal. The heals will increase the boost to your HP, so that with SOs your health increases by about half again (I think).

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Stone Advantages : In Granite, the best damage mitigation, non-granite a regen tank. Aura has slow effect.
Stone Disadvantages : Mobility, has -jump and -fly in powers as well as self slow. Non-granite suffers from higher levels and high ranks until I7.

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Granite also has -Recharge (add 70% to all your recharge times) and -Dmg (about 30% less damage).

Granite is the only tanker toggle that can't be toggle-dropped (it can be overcome by a high enough Hold Mag though).

In PvP you are limited by the lack of mobility and vunerable to knockback without GA+Rooted combination. And everybody knows what a great tactic standing still is in PvP.

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I still would take swift instead of hurlde, specialy when you got into rooted. Haymaker afaik does knockback on green/blue and some white minions, wich i felt pretty anoying.

But based on that list, he only got his rockarmor to go around.. painful

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Yup Hurdle is an error, should be Swift. I used Fault when I was leveling to mitigate damage, which is why I suggested Handclap which does pretty much the same thing but has big knockback which may be a problem.

Haymaker is a solid attack. You really shouldn't be fighting green/blue as a tank

With Brimstone, the big fire damage isn't going to come until post 32, Crystal might be a bit more useful around this level - against Freaks and Council maybe. I'm not saying don't take it - I'm saying this is what I'd take up to level 20. Stone has great Regen in Rooted, EE and Health, it's this that's probably more important than the armours at this level.

Do you still have the free respec?
If so, I'd go for something like this and get Stamina at 22. I think neglecting your attacks is a mistake. Brimstone is very marginal, crystal less so but you can probably avoid it, especially if you take Handclap as a stun, which does have drawbacks.

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name:
Level: 22
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Stone Armor
Secondary: Super Strength
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Rock Armor==> DefBuf(1) DefBuf(3) DefBuf(3) EndRdx(7)
01) --> Jab==> Acc(1)
02) --> Earth's Embrace==> Heal(2) Heal(5) Heal(11) Rechg(13) Rechg(13) Rechg(15)
04) --> Haymaker==> Acc(4) Acc(5) Dmg(11) Dmg(15) Dmg(17) EndRdx(17)
06) --> Mud Pots==> EndRdx(6) EndRdx(7) Dmg(19) Dmg(19)
08) --> Rooted==> Heal(8) Heal(9) Heal(9)
10) --> Recall Friend==> EndRdx(10)
12) --> Hurdle==> Jump(12)
14) --> Teleport==> EndRdx(14)
16) --> Health==> Heal(16)
18) --> Taunt==> Taunt(18)
20) --> Knockout Blow==> Acc(20) Acc(21) Dmg(21)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Gauntlet==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
---------------------------------------------

The timestamp is there in the quote - says about 4 1/2 minutes. Domination was flatlined at the start, once built up & triggered it was all over. I think we were about the same level, we just happened to be the only ones in Warburg so we went toe to toe. Certain builds are going to be more vunerable, he did have TP but even so my slows/knockdown/immobs were the reason I won (or avoid him for 4 minutes, KO him in 30 seconds).

1v1s like this are pretty silly, although some people seem to think it's like a boxing match and want to compete like this. Once you work out you're the rock to the paper, you shouldn't stick around. Most blasters could flatten Bil easily. This is why the "real" environments like BB and Siren's are more interesting.

I KO'd a SS/Inv Brute in Warburg. Do I get a badge?

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13:19:59 Brute has quit the team
13:20:32 Brute has defeated Giant Fly Trap
13:24:24 You have defeated Brute
13:24:26 [Local]Brute: well
13:24:31 [Local]Brute: toggle knocker
13:24:32 [Tell]-->Brute: :P
13:24:39 [Tell]-->Brute: hard fight !
13:24:41 [Local]Brute: what toggle knocks me?
13:24:49 [Local]Bilharzia: Skewer
13:24:55 [Local]Brute: if i was lvl 38
13:24:57 [Local]Brute: u had no chance
13:25:00 [Local]Brute: in hell
13:25:02 [Local]Bilharzia: LOL
13:25:07 [Local]Brute: unstoppable
13:25:11 [Local]Brute: u couldnt do anytrhing to me
13:25:23 [Local]Brute: cuz its a mezz+[censored] loads
13:25:26 [Local]Brute: resist
13:25:31 [Local]Brute: and aint a toggle :-


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I Held him with Domination as well as toggle dropping him infact.

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Mace is a bad set.

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Hammerfall - lvl 50 Invul/Mace tanker(defiant)

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AKA "The Rubber Mace".

It looks a bit silly and it's secondaries are (mostly) minor stun and knockback; a bit of a late developer as well - none of which endears it to the tanker crowd.

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You might want to swop Heavy Mallet with Stone Mallet there not sure how you're getting Heavy at level 4 o.O

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In one of the latest patch they swapped the tier 4 attack for Taunt, so you can pick the 3rd attack on the set(usually a good one: Bone Smasher, Haymaker, Heavy mallet and so forth)with Taunt, putting Taunt as available only at lvl 10

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Well what the heck is this world coming to? Next you'll be telling me they reduced endurance costs and halved xp debt. Luxury.

You might want to swop Heavy Mallet with Stone Mallet there not sure how you're getting Heavy at level 4 o.O

I would take both Mallets, I'd certainly take Stone Mallet over Hurl Boulder. If you want a -Fly ranged attack I would go with Stone Prison instead.

Salt Crystals is hard to use because of all your AoEs, and anyone else's which will break sleep. If you want to stick with Earth Mastery I'd switch with Stone Prison. Stalagmites is unfortunately not the same as the Controller power - the Disorient was lowered to something like 10-20% and the damage upped, it's more like a ranged Tremor attack, nothing like as effective as Fault. I ended up dumping Earth Mastery because of how useless Salt is and the low mezz of stalagmites; Fossilise and Stone Prison are both good though.

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If you want something less end hungry on the attack side.. try Energy/Dark.

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You might have meant Dark Melee/Energy Aura, this can solve your Endurance problems without having to take the Fitness Pool at all. EA is mostly DEF based though which right now isn't so great. The -Acc in DM is a good match for the +Def in EA though. EA has a great anti-mezz which also protects against Repel and TP in PvP.

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OK i caved and took this power for my Brute. Is there a recomended way to slot to make the most of it?

Acc and Damage i'm guessing.

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Slotting for Damage on Brutes is a waste of a slot, seeing as the base values are so low - Slot Acc, EndRed and Recharge before you slot Damage. At level 36, my EM/Fire Brute has precisely 0 Damage enhancements - he builds up Fury quickly and stays there until "Mission Complete!" sprays across the screen.

[/ QUOTE ]Fury gives you... I'm not sure, either 250% or 350% damage boost when maxed, and brute damage cap is around 800%, those 100% you get from 3 damage enhancers are still useful even with full fury.

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The point is, can you keep going and maintain high fury continuously without End reducers in your attacks? If slotting for damage means you're getting 200%+ boost most of the time instead of 300%+ boost almost all the time then I'd go for EndRed.

Most Brutes I've teamed with seem to think they can only keep going at high Fury for limited periods then need to stop, rest, and set off again. The reality is you can keep going continuously without a pause as I've seen Syn do on missions. Dark Melee also has an extremely effective +End power.

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I see, but usually i'm not in extended fights. Even the few times i can remember being in them i don't recall ever having my Domination build up sufficiently. I think it's because there's still so few Doms that regularly PvP, if there is one in a fight he's usually a primary target, or at least perceived as an easier target than a Brute or a Stalker which pretty much goes without saying.


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It's not easy but it's possible. MMs and corruptors are just as much targets I think probably because Doms are underestimated. The thing about Siren's is that most of the time the hotspots are ignored and the place is more like a freeform arena - which is fun in itself but there's nothing much there that gives you any sense of doing something other than dueling, especially since getting involved with the tug-of-war is an easy way to debt (that is, more than you usually get in Siren's, PvP = debt to me). I'm hoping that Issue 7 will develop the good stuff Cryptic have done already in BB,Warburg & Siren's.

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I'm sure travel powers affect this a lot if i think about it, but i'm happy with fly. I really could do with speccing Arctic Air out in favour of Stealth, and take it later instead for Warburg, hmm...

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I'm not so sure about Stealth. Stalkers have ruined it for villains since heroes are now aware of having to raise their Perception any villain using standard stealth is going to be spotted a mile away by anything that gives +Per. Artic Air looks like a great PvP power.

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I'm just an impatient person, and in a PvP zone where fights are usually fairly constant i don't find it in the least bit practical to spend time working up my Domination bar, particularly in Sirens.


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I'm in Siren's a lot, and when I'm there I'm constantly in fights. I still have a single target Hold (Mag3), I have a cone Confuse, an Immob, and AoE Knockdown/Slow, I use 2 ranged attacks and a melee; it's not as if I'm off to the side somewhere building Dom, my Holds are just as effective as a Controller (shorter duration). Anything that doesn't have Mezz resist I can hold in one shot - Blasters, Defenders, Controllers so I don't see how Dominators are so much less effective without Domination at using control powers, in fact duration is much less important in PvP than it is in PvE. If I'm in an extended fight I can hit Domination and then I can hold virtually anything.

As far as the Assault powers go I'd also like to see a boost with them in some way.

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Ah right, Domination, 'nuff said. My words in the previous post are all based around not having Domination built up, just FYI

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You could have read my original post further up the thread when I make this clear...everybody seems to just ignore Domination when talking about Dominators. If you keep talking your abilities down you'll start believing you're under-powered.

With Domination I've held a stone tank with Granite (so overcome his mezz resist) and various other builds including a Kheldian in tank form whatever that is - the one that makes a lot of noise. This means a Dominator can break pretty much anything in PvP. As far as I'm aware BFs are based on a mag as well (could be wrong) so it would take a number of BFs to break out of a high mag hold. You can put down a Mag18 hold with single target/aoe hold/singe target cycle. Why don't you try it yourself?

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I like domination when it's up, but It doesn't really compensate for the "down time"

And I find myself just controlling during a battle anyway and leaving the damage output to everyone else, as they are all better at it than I am. Don't know whether this is because I'm used to playing as a pure support class in CoH or not, but due to the shorter hold lengths with a dominator I find myself not really having time to deal damage either.

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I think it comes down to the play style you want & like, you may enjoy a Corrupter more. You do need to be very aggressive with a Dom to get the most out of it and constantly attack, I don't have too much of a problem doing this myself. At the moment I'm trying to fire off Domination as much as possible rather than leaving it in reserve so much, I tend to overestimate how long it takes to build up, the reality is it can be a pretty fast build up if you're prepared to go all out on the attack.

I've tried to match what you've done Idris. I'll just use the raw values and not worry about the BI; this is a level 35 Plant/Thorns against a level 35 CoT Guide (human).

Unfortunately there's a complication with Thorns. They do a random amount of poison damage - sometimes none at all, sometimes one hit of the poison, sometimes up to seven - it's usually around four.

I don't have the Thorn cone attack, or the PBAoE and I just picked up Ripper this level at 35.

Brawl 11.59 smashing
Thorny Darts 25.13 Lethal + 1.49*4 Poison = 31.09 (CF: Ice Bolt 29.86)
Skewer 52.86 Lethal + 3.321*4 Poison = 66.144 (CF: Ice Sword = 52.85)
Impale 39.5 Lethal + 2.98*4 Poison = 51.42 (CF: Ice Blast = 39.49)
Ripper 54.69 Lethal + 6.44*4 Poison = 80.45 (CF: Greater Ice Sword 63.17)

It does seem like Thorns is doing more damage. I have no idea about endurance use & comparisons, and of course this doesn't take into account DoT, though according to Character Builder the recharge times look very similar.

It looks to me where Ice scores is with the AoE which looks a lot better than Thorns. Ice gets a -Recharge and a -Speed Thorns gets a -Def. Thorns does also get Aim instead of Power Boost, this is giving me a +30% damage buff, 3 slotted with recharge it's on for 10 seconds, down for 40, I've also noticed Aim doesn't buff the poison damage.

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i only have three attacks, stone mallet, heavy mallet and stone fists im a brute i need to deal it aswell as take it.
any advice? Im lvl 16 BTW

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I wouldn't worry too much, at level 18 you get Seismic Smash which is a great attack. The mallets are very good themselves. Stone Fist is strong for a first tier attack, if you're concerned about building Fury (and stone is pretty slow) use Brawl and Air Sup from the Flight pool if you can, it's a great attack; boxing from Fighting pool and flurry from Speed pool you could also take.

I would also take Fault - it's a very good control power for sticky situations.

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as far as i am concerned there is no way to fix the dominator AT, but made it a controller.
i think the Dominator is very bad. well in fact all AT of CoV suffer from a rigidity in their pool combinaison but this one isthe worst case?

first its controle magnitude is not equal as the troller one. cool they gave us Domination yippi 1 minute of normal control magnitude for 1558522 hour of poor control capacity (in PvP some ice corruptor hold far better than me and i can't put more than 4 acc so in a power i'm sorry).


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you are wrong - the magnitude is the same, as well as that the Mag is doubled during Domination, duration is also greater with Domination. Without domination the duration is less than a controller that is the difference (and Controllers sometimes critical their holds).
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ton continue what kind of dominator have we? only one. control/damage we only have choice in the color of the emote (you know ice is white, fire is red..)

and the "amage" set is ridiculous. it does ligth and sound but no damage. so in fact a dominator have only one poll power.
why no FF?
why no buf/debuf?
instead of that "damage" pool that is useless?


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The secondary isn't useless - it isn't as good as a Corrupter but it's not bad at all, it could be improved a little.

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ifyou wantto fix Dominator then give them theopportunity to choose their secondary set in other AT (like trolleur) and give them some defense or life.

and stop doing such unplayable power like arctic air (i have it sloted with 4 -end reduc SO and 2 -confusion SO + the Endurance power sloted with 6 -end SO. if i turn it on i hold, i attack one time and then no endurance left. cool the better power of the set is unplayable and nullifiate the endurance power taht cost you 3 power to have : /)

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6 slotting Stamina is a bit silly. Slot some End Reducers in your attacks, be careful how often you use AoE attacks, don't run Artic Air all the time. Dominators aren't Controllers - but their control powers can be much more effective with Domination.

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I haven't got this power yet, but I'm toying about getting it for the occasional PVP game. I was wondering if it was a good pwer to stop Stalkers from running off after they fire off their AS. Anyone tryed this out?? is it good for this purpose?

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No, all Stalkers have a mezz resist power which includes Stun and Knockback res.