Filth_EU

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no with 3 recharge it only overlaps for about 10 seconds.

3 holds won't beat the mez protection tho nor will 4 or 5 thats the whole point to my test.


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3 holds will beat Rin, I just tried it. 4 times, twice in the arena, twice in Warburg.

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You just can't hold a clicky mez protected person for any length of time.
not sure what lvls you used in your test but in mine it never happend.

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You can, it's easy.

We are both level 40.

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Each successful attack from the Assaul secondary power sets adds a bonus of 8 points toward filling the Domination bar over the normal value

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So in PvP do the primary hold powers still only build domination at the standard 2 points instead of 8?

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Correct. Only the assault powers can give you +8 and only if they successfully hit another player.

Well this is bizarre, I've just tested it with a Ninjitsu stalker (thanks Deathstalker) and it takes 3 standard holds to get through Rin, it isn't any stronger at all.

Chelsea were you stacking Rin? or do you have any Items of Power in your SG that boost your mez resistance?

I'm amazed Kuji-in Rin is that strong, it does mean it increases the distance between Ninjitsu and SR, given the fact that it should be possible to stack Rin as well, you have a Stalker who can have a mez-resist strength of 28! Rin also has resistance to Confuse and Fear and only lacks knockback resistance which if needed Acrobatics can give you, whereas SR has no way of getting (or any of the other powersets)..

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no no you missunderstand i'm just trying to clear the air over toggles v clickys and the fact its alot harder to hold a player with clicky mez than toggle mez.


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Sure, I appreciate what you're doing with testing Ninjitsu Chelsea - it does seem Rin is *much* higher magnitude resistance than any other scrapper/stalker power, it seems double. To clear one thing up, this isn't something to do with click-mez powers - it's only Rin out of Ninjitsu that is this strong, Practiced Brawler for Stalkers is still only Mag 7 and it is a click power, I can hold an SR stalker just as easily as an Energy Aura or Integration Stalker.

If you're saying that Rin is harder to hold because it has a higher magnitude then you're absolutely right - it's as tough as Granite from your test.

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In my test with my ninjitsu stalker V the grav troller with a singularity its was impossible for me to be perma held even with 5-6 holds.

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The thing about this is that no one can be continuously held because of suppression. I think what is going on in your test is that it takes long enough for one controller to get out 6 holds, that by the time they have 6 holds out, the first one wears out and because Rin is still active - you come out of the hold - and this *is* because Rin is a click power not a toggle.

Click-powers for mez resistance definitely have *advantages* over toggle powers but they aren't "stronger" in that they have higher magnitude just because they are click powers - practiced brawler isn't any stronger than Entropy Shield, for example, which is a toggle.

If it's the case that you have found on the test server that Rin is weaker than on live, I have a feeling that this current mez strength of Rin is actually a bug, since this double the magnitude of other stalker powers and most Scrapper powers as well - and it's as high as Granite Armour for mez resistance!
I'd like to try it on test

Pros: being a Dominator.

Cons: being a Dominator.

I think although you and Stalko mean well, I think you're making a mistake in that you can't argue or discuss something with someone else who has no regard for what you think:

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I therefore go with what they say. If the dev's say mob TP'ing is ok, then I don't even need to think about it. Its ok.

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If you claim you yourself don't have to think, then you're certainly not going to have any regard what someone else thinks.

My impression is of these zones is that when they get busy - and when somewhere like RV gets busy the conduct of these players simply becomes irrelevant because there is so much other activity. It is only because they hang around some of the PvP zones when the population is low that they become noticeable.

The reality is, you and other PvP players like you vastly outnumber players with low ability and poor social skills, so I don't see them as a big problem.

Slotting sprint is faster.

*But why not just get super speed?

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Just posting about a previous thread about clicky or toggle mez protection .. i think its was filth who said its no harder to beat clicky mez protection than it is to beat toggle .. well i did afew test on live and on the test server with a lvl 38 grav controller (thanks mat) and clicky it seems it by far the better.
Take a look
Now as you can see theres 5 holds there and no held sign .. at some points the was 6 holds and i was held for afew seconds but it never beat the mez protection.

This wouldn't happen with a toggle as it would just drop and you would be perma held.

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I'm not sure if you've forgotten what I've written or not bothered to read it at all and are just using me for a general gripe. In fact as well as pointing out advantages of click-mez resistance I also recommended you test the Ninjitsu resistance yourself:
test it
One of the points I tried to make was just because a mez-resist power was a click rather than a toggle doesn't make it's magnitude resistance any higher by itself. I've tested Practiced Brawler (a click power):
Practiced Brawler
and it has the same mez resistance as a Scrapper toggle resist power. I also pointed out PB could be stacked, as Kuroshi told me, and we tested that as well which gives 2xPB a mag strength of 14 as you would expect.
I've also pointed out advantages and disadvantages of click powers:
click myth

From your screenshot it looks like you are resisting a mag of at least 14, this would put your mez resistance on a par with Granite armour, which is extremely high, this doesn't change the fact that Practiced Brawler still has a mez-strength of only 7! at least for scrappers. I'm assuming you didn't have Rin double-stacked in which case I would guess your resist strength *was* mag 14, which would make sense.

You say with 6 holds you were held but it "still didn't beat the mez protection", well, this is the definition of beating mez protection, certainly being held means all your defensive toggles drop and you're unable to take action. You can't be permanently held in PvP in any case because of suppression.

The point is, there isn't anything about click-mez-resistance powers themselves that gives them a higher mag resist than toggles just because they are click powers, despite the fact that they have obvious advantages, which I've said before.

The other thing to say is that you've only tested Ninjitsu, I don't know how you can claim that all click-mez powers are the same, I've tested Integration and Practiced Brawler for Scrappers, Unyielding, Unstoppable, Rooted and Granite for Tanks and there is nothing about the magnitude resists of these powers that makes toggles lower than click powers.

The result that you got is pretty amazing because it means the mez resist of Ninjitsu is way above most base mez-resist scrapper powers.

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hmm.. interesting.. im not saying ur wrong in anyway, but i had real situations that contredict thoose stats a bit...

no problems holding an invul tank with gravity distortion (which ofcourse is a bit stronger than most holds) whith 1 hit and domination. (slotted with 1 hold duration, incase that makes any diff)

same attack failed to hold alot of diff ATs (without domination) that used acrobatics and no break frees or other mez-res buffs.

im guessing Dispersion bubble has about the same res-strength as acrobatics (assumption) and it can withstand 1 regular hold like char or block of ice.

is there a post (or other) where all the Mag-stats can be read?

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The thing is, your 'real' situation was one in which you probably didn't know the exact status of your opponent, UY may not have been running at all, he may have already had some hold on him and you stacked another hold so breaking UY, and so on.

The best way to test these things is with someone you know without any fight going on around you that way you prevent unknown factors from influencing your attacks, otherwise you'll get misleading information. A stalker recently told me Issue 7 had nerfed Ninjitsu mez resist, because "on live I can take up to 14 holds" - that's a strength of 42, twice as strong as Granite, all of that came from his 'real' experience in Siren's - completely barmy.

All Controller and Dominator single target Holds have the same magnitude - 3. Sometimes a controller will critical their hold and get a mag of 4, running Domination a dominator's holds become mag 6. AoE holds also have a mag of 3.

One exception I can think of is Telekinesis which has a much higher mag than usual - not sure what this is.

Some of these things have been talked about here.

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Will Dom should hit Granite ok, but TK blast has a smashing component, granite will get def to the whole attack from that.

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It will, but TK blast is also *the only* attack in Psychic blast that isn't pure Psi damage.

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and since Domination is easier to build up in i7, this would also enable them to get Dom in PvP (i hope lol) and that means 1 hit to penetrate any mez-toggles

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You will still need at least 2 hits of a hold to break most mez resists. One ST hold with Domination = mag6 which will not hold any scrapper or tank, acrobatics adds +1 mag to your resist. You need at least mag8 to hold a scrapper, so 3 standard holds (9) or 2 with Domination (12).

Dominator holds (without domination) are the same magnitude as controller holds .

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I'd also take Jump Kick instead of Combat Jumping - CJ has minimal defence bonus on a brute and JK is another attack to help boost your Fury.

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Except with this build - no protection Vs. Immob... I would also go with Hurdle+CJ for combat mobility. Jump Kick is also one the slowest attacks you can get, not good for fury.

It does depend on how it is going to be played - it's also very, very hard to read in the long form, short form export from the builder is a billion times more readable. From what I can bear to read, I would put some ToHit modifiers in Rage, I would also consider the medicine pool, an Ice Tanker will get a lot out of Aid Self.

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Granite does give +def to all damage types I beleive and that's why you have more trouble hitting them

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Except Psi.

It's worth noting ToF has a -20% ToHit Debuff which can be enhanced by slotting, given that you can stack this on a single target you could be putting out a -60% debuff. I would say taking ToF and 6 slotting it is a must.

Attacks - because the base damage is so low on most Brute attacks it is almost always replacing damage slots with endurance reduction instead since Fury gives you much more of a damage boost than the damage enhancers so that your aim should be to keep your endurance up as much as possible.

What in heaven's name are you talking about?

Do you think anyone disagrees with you? Surely gloating isn't cricket, what? I missed the part when someone argued that swearing at other players is a good idea.

There is a code of conduct - send a petition:

/petition conduct

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The only thing I sort of frowned upon about being outnumbered this badly, was that 80% of the villains in the zone were stalkers. Stalkers are so overpowered they should be an Epic AT, and not something every new player can just pick off the shelf the second they've installed the game.


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Funny how at the same time, Stalkers are complaining that the PvP game is now un-playable for them.

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And when there is twice as many stalkers as there are heroes in the zone, this IS indeed a PROBLEM and should be looked upon by the devs promptly.

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You are or you aren't complaining about being outnumbered?

Try playing as a villain against scrappers or blasters or controllers when you're outnumbered.

If you're unhappy about the behaviour of players in the zone you should petition it. If you think the behaviour you witnessed is unique to stalker players you're kidding yourself.

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PB can however be double layered almost half the time

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Indeed it can
Not quite sure how this actually works out in play though, but definitely a plus.

You are complaining about two things here, one, being outnumbered and two, trash-talking in broadcast.

There is not much that can be done when you are grossly outnumbered in the zone it happens to both sides. Generally when I'm in Siren's I either leave or stick it out until the sides even up, very rarely is there a perfect balance and sometimes you can hit effectively even when you are outnumbered. I'm not sure what either side is supposed to do when numbers are skewed. I know people who have toons of both heroes and villains will switch sides when it becomes uneven, many players don't have that option.

As far as trash-talking goes all I can say is it's actually very easy to entertain yourself by playing some reverse psychology, or ignore it; some players like to boast when they defeat others, they are poor players, the end. I like to boast when I am defeated, drives people nuts, or they think it's funny, or they put me on /ignore; result either way.

There's nothing particular to the villains side and stalkers, don't kid yourself. Controllers, blasters and scrappers behave in exactly the same way. I've had relentless name-calling, personal tells and badgering playing as a Dominator from heroes simply because they think it's unfair I should even be in the zone, since of course everyone knows Dominators are a rubbish AT and shouldn't have the temerity to show their beastly face in PvP.

Is there much point in doing this - given the big PvP changes in Issue 7?

The click-mez-resist-is-stronger-than-toggle seems to be a new myth. There are definite advantages to click-mez resist, such as immunity to de-toggling and possible disadvantages such as being vunerable to -Recharge.

Certain powers are stronger - for example Unstoppable has a stronger mez resist than UY - it has a mez strength of about 16, and it's also a click-power making it very potent, for 3 minutes at least; Unstoppable is equivalent to Granite armour though, not say Rooted which is a toggle. For tankers Ice and Fire don't have any direct equivalents for their level 32 powers.

Things will get better with issue 7 for Brutes - less toggle dropping and faster Fury building in PvP.

Make sure you 6 slot Healing Flames and 3 slot Hasten.
At least 2 ACC in every attack.

Are you struggling with Stamina? If Dark Consumption and Consume are giving you enough I would dump the two powers from fitness you have. I think you should slot more into Soul Drain and possibly dump Siphon Life.

Dark Melee isn't awesome in PvP but has some nifty control ie. Touch of fear - mostly useful for keeping someone *out* of a fight.

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Blaster, Defender and Corruptor holds (and NPC holds) are mag 2, Doms and Controllers are Mag 3.
This is why Acrobatics will protect you against a Blaster hold (like freeze ray) but will not from any Dom or Controller hold.

[/ QUOTE ]So are they different mag in PvP than PvE? Because all ST holds hold minions and lt's in PvP, but not bosses (Unless you get critical hit with controller).

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I don't see any difference in PvE and PvP:

Player Villain or Hero base resist = -1
Minion base resist = 0
Lt. base resist = -1
Boss base resist = -3

So, Freeze Ray from a blaster will hold a minion or Lt. or player in one hit - eg.
Lt. -1 + 2 (freeze ray) = 1 -> Held
Player -1 + 2 (freeze ray) = 1 -> Held
Player (-1) with Acrobatics (-1) -2 + 2 (Freeze Ray) = 0 -> Not Held.

Controller hold:
Player (-1) with Acrobatics (-1) -2 + 3 (Fossilise) = 1 -> Held.

Bosses - base resist of -3
1 Freeze Ray Mag 2:
-3 + 2 = -1 -> not held.

2 Freeze Rays Mag2+Mag2 = Mag4:
-3 + 4 = 1 -> held.

1 Controller hold = Mag 3
-3 + 3 = 0 -> not held

2 Controller holds = Mag 6 (3+3)
-3 + 6 = 3 -> held

1 Controller hold *which criticals* = 4
-3 + 4 = 1 -> held

Holding a tank or scrapper:
3 Controller / Dominator holds will break Practiced Brawler
Player base (-1) Practiced Brawler (-6)
-7 + 9 (3+3+3) = 2 -> held.

...and so on.