Fiery-Enforcer
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Posts
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Joined
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Generally people build for at least 41 pts of KB protection, you'll need Acro to get it up there.
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I think you'll have some end problems, Earth is pretty end heavy and if you're running both Hot Feet and Mud Pots, even more so. I used to have a Mind/Earth that ate through end like crazy even with Permadom and Power Sink, then again I had most of the AoE's slotted with Obliterations.
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Quote:Overall I'd say the Corr would be better, it has good AoE damage and ST damage as well. The only thing I'd want from the Troller is Fire Cages for the immob, but a lot of players don't know how to use it well.Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
For top end building, team focused (TFs/SFs) play and non-farming, which would be the stronger choice?
Fire/Kin Corr
Fire/Kin Controller
I'm personally leaning towards the Corr (as my next build project), because I dislike pets and prefer ST damage, but I'm curious what people's opinions are.
I can't count the amount of Trollers and Doms I've encountered that open up with the AoE immob. It's annoying when I'm playing my Fire/SD or SS/Fire and trying to bunch mobs up to maximize AoE's for the whole team. -
Quote:This is how it has always been from my experience, except for when the proc was broken. I was always confused when people were talking about suppression as that wasn't happening to me in game.Originally Posted by HelinCarnate
The info there is not what is hapening in game. The only suppression is to prevent it from stacking more than once. I got lucky and got quick reflexes on a mutaiton and ended up with 176.25 global recharge. This would mean when the proc fires I would have 276.25 global recharge plus the 89.9 recharge on footstomp for 366.15%. Someone that knows how to figure that out can tell you how fast that gets footstomp to recharge. All I know is it is sligtly faster than 4.483 seconds.
I hopped in a ambush farm so I would be more likley to get the proc. Due to the high recharge, there was at most 1 second of down time on the proc when it fired 2 times in a row. I had my recharge on monitor and when it hit 2 times in a row I would see the time go from 276.25, drop to 176.25 then quckly back up to 276.25. I got up to 4 times in a row using footstomp.
Also even without watching the numbers, it was easy to tell when it did not proc. Just watching the footstomp icon recharge, there was a noticable difference in its speed when the proc missed.
Ok edit to add up to 5 in a row now a few times after more testing and once got 8 in a row. -
I haven't messed around with a Fort build in over a year, but I remember on mine I used Dart Burst instead of Psy Scream. All of the numbers are better except it has a shorter range, just another option if you want more AoE.
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If you're not going to build for S/L defense what would you do then? You already have the S/L shield so it's not that difficult to do, and if you have the inf you can get softcapped defense and Permadom without Hasten.
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Quote:What are you just trying to get an accurate representation of what the inf/min really is over time? The tests I did was with me only being in the mission, just for the purpose of measuring killing speed.Originally Posted by Chriffer
Don't stay in the same mission. Do your run, exit the mission, restart. Include the load times in the process.
Personally, I only use this type of farm for PL'ing, while I make most my inf from playing the market and farming for purples. -
Quote:I got all of the purples in my SS/Fire in i11 when they first came out, but yes with today's market it's really expensive. My Claws/Dark is built with defense in mind, but for the tests it had more AoE's to work with, so it's not like I was waiting so long for them to recharge. While Hasten is up, FU recharges in 4.6s, Spin in 4.5s, Eviscerate in 4.4s, and Fireball in 11.2s.Originally Posted by BellyButtonJelly
So are we to assume that your claws build is also sloted similar in inf amount to how you have your ss/fire toon? Your ss/fire guy costs what? This the same toon that you said gets footsomp up in 4 seconds?
I think we should also have video of you doing anything there Kev considering your well noted bias for ss/fire.
Yes, the tests I did with my SS/Fire was with fire damage enemies, when I used my Claws/Dark it was the same mission with S/L damage enemies. Since I wasn't using all of my attacks, I stayed in the mission long enough for at least 2 rage crashes to get a good representation of how it effects the speed.
However, I also did tests with a regular mission that I happened to make in AE for ease of use and so both of my toons could use the same mission on the same map. -
Quote:What kind of Defender was it? I've been interesting in trying Lusca with my Fire/Rad Corr.Originally Posted by Silverado
Lusca (who is technically 9 GMs) "only" took me around 90mins on my defender, and that was without using any temps or insps. Most other GMs either take around 15mins or just can't be done at all.
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Okay I went back to the ambush farm to test out the Claws/Dark with Fireball, this time without using inspirations. So, using FU/Spin/Eviscerate/Fireball/Death Shroud I got around 740k inf/minute. Now, with the SS/Fire using Rage/Foot Stomp/Fireball/Blazing Aura I got around 900k inf/minute. And no, I haven't been using Fiery Embrace in any of the tests.
With that, I think I'm done running these for now lol. -
Fiery Embrace no longer works that way, it use to for 30s give an 80% damage buff to all fire attacks and for the first 10s, all attacks. Now the duration has been reduced to 20s and it adds bonus fire damage to all attacks for the full duration. It's like a damage proc that goes off 100% of the time, and it's affected by damage buffs.
Edit: Ok I finished doing some runs in a regular AE mission on the demon farm map with Council Empire.
The settings I used were +3/x8 no bosses. I have since respec'd into Pyre mastery on my Claws/Dark to get some more accurate results. With the Claws/Dark, I was making about 460k inf/minute, using FU/Spin/Eviscerate/Fireball/Death Shroud. With the SS/Fire I was making about 500k inf/minute using Rage/Foot Stomp/Fireball/Blazing Aura. -
Quote:That's not what I'm reading at all. He's saying to compare Claws vs. his SS Brute and see if you can beat any of the numbers he posted.Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Ah, i missed the previous post. So, your position is Claws/any secondary/any epic/any I/O beats everything else in every non-AE situation. Interesting. I will give this thought.
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Yeah, I plan on running some more tests later. I'll setup a regular AE mission to compare the two so we have something else to work with rather than just an ambush farm.
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Alright, I did a few more tests including what you suggested. With Rage/Foot Stomp/Blazing Aura I got around 605k inf/minute, while with FU/Spin/Eviscerate/Death Shroud I got around 625k inf/minute, thus giving the edge to Claws in this case.
Now here's a test I decided to do which would be hard to duplicate, so I just did a few runs with each. I added the epic AoE into the equation, Dark Obliteration with Claws and Fireball with SS, I know Fireball has an edge in this situation. I also added inspiration usage, specifically I converted everything into reds and used them like crazy.
The results I got with the Claws/Dark worked out to around 1 mil inf/minute each run, while the SS/Fire worked out to around 1.35 mil inf/minute each run. I know this isn't the ideal comparison namely because of Dark Obliteration vs. Fireball, but that's all I can work with right now. -
I'd like to do a comparison utilizing all of my SS/Fire's attacks, but unfortunately I do not have a Claws/Fire to do a fair comparison.
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Interesting, I just did a test comparing Foot Stomp and Spin in an AE farm where you'll most likely always be at the aggro cap, so positioning doesn't matter much. This test was done with my SS/Fire and my Claws/Dark, I just stood in one area.
With the Claws/Dark I kept Death Shroud on for the taunt and only used FU and Spin whenever they were up, it was topping at around 500k inf/minute. Now with the SS/Fire I did the same thing and kept Blazing Aura on for the same reason, except I only used Foot Stomp, no Rage and was able to get about the same 500k inf/minute with it.
Spin is slotted with a full set of Obliterations while Foot Stomp is slotted with 5 Armageddon's (minus DMG) and a FF +rech proc. I can run some more tests, but I would say the radius in Foot Stomp indeed makes a difference. -
Like Dread said, it's really the support that matters the most. I know I've 'tanked' the LRSF and STF with my SS/Fire with good support behind me. Although, if you have to choose between the 2, I'd go with Invuln because Stone is gross.
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Quote:I was mostly counting inf/minute. Did a few AE farms and was getting anywhere from between 1.8 - 2.1 mil inf/minute. In a regular farm mission I usually get anywhere from 600k - 650k inf/minute when I'm maximizing inf.Originally Posted by Terror1
What kind of numbers are you after? inf per min or defeats as well?
Time limit?
That's not it at all because I do have a Claws/Dark Brute that I enjoy playing. From my experience, the larger radius does matter. Since I use other attacks such as Burn, enemies closer to me die quickly. That leaves the bigger radius' of Fireball and Foot Stomp to hit more foes that are farther away.Quote:Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Me, I think that it's a holdout perception from before Brutes got Claws. The larger radius definitely helps for ease of use (i.e., you don't need to make sure that everything is packed in tight around you before using it), but I'm thinking that people still aren't thinking of Claws when it comes to Brutes, even though they've had it for a bit. -
Fire/Rad and Fire/Traps Corrs.
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Quote:Except you can't reliably calculate AoE damage because not everything is always going to be in range of your attacks. I'm not disputing your math, you did calculations where the attacks hit the max targets, and in that sense, yes Claws will pull ahead of SS. However, that's not what happens in actual gameplay. Super Strengths main advantage is the range Foot Stomp has and from my experience with playing both Claws and SS, it does make a pretty big difference.Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Yes, when all the variables are accounted for, math describes perfectly what happens in game.
There are other things to factor in such as inspiration usage and the fact that you can choose not use Rage because of that, but I understand that's not realistic to calculate as it can only happen under certain circumstances. -
I'm not saying Bill's math is wrong, just that it doesn't factor everything in such as the radius of the attacks. You're certainly not going to hit the target cap with Spin and Eviscerate every time, while it's much more likely you will with Foot Stomp.
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Cause we know everything on paper works out exactly the same in game.
When I have time I'll do a few runs with my SS/Fire using herostats and post some real numbers. If anyone wants to do the same with a Claws/Fire and Elec/Fire, go ahead and we'll compare results. -
Quote:SS might not be the best for AoE while just looking at it alone. Which was never the case, we've been talking about SS/Fire with an epic AoE.Originally Posted by BellyButtonJelly
No its not just about farming potential its about who does the best AOE dmg and we learned that SS is not top of the heap for AOE dmg. That means that when thinking about farming you need to use your secondarys and epics to make it viable. And no RAGE does not keep going and going.. it wears off after awhile as Bill stated.
In my build, I have Foot Stomp's recharge down to 5.56 seconds, and with the FF +rech proc it's down to 4.35 seconds, which goes off very often, especially in AE farms. Now cycling between Foot Stomp, Fireball, and Burn, I'm putting out a significant amount of AoE damage. -
You don't use inspirations when farming? Well that answers enough right there. If you're so confident about Elec/Fire being the best, why don't you post some Herostats numbers and I'll do the same with my SS/Fire.
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This is most likely what I plan on doing with my Fire/SD, it's still a work in progress and I might tweak a few things.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.803
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Fire Shield: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Blaze Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Fire Sword -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg:40(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx:40(19), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg:40(21), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:40(21), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:40(31), T'Death-Dam%:40(37)
Level 1: Deflection -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(3), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(3), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx:50(17), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(17), Aegis-ResDam:50(34)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- LkGmblr-Def:50(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(7), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(7), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(13)
Level 4: True Grit -- Numna-Heal:50(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx:50(5), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(5), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg:50(13), Numna-Heal/Rchg:50(33), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:50(37)
Level 6: Cremate -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg:40(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx:40(9), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg:40(9), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:40(11), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(11), T'Death-Dam%:40(19)
Level 8: Boxing -- Acc-I:50(A)
Level 10: Active Defense -- HO:Membr(A)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(15), RechRdx-I:50(33)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 16: Tough -- GA-3defTpProc:50(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(40)
Level 18: Fire Sword Circle -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx:50(27), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(31), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg:50(34), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg:50(40)
Level 20: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(23), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(23)
Level 22: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 24: Build Up -- GSFC-ToHit:50(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg:50(25), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx:50(25), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx:50(33), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx:50(34), GSFC-Build%:50(36)
Level 26: Incinerate -- Mako-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx:50(27), Mako-Dmg/Rchg:50(29), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:50(29), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(31), Mako-Dam%:50(46)
Level 28: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A)
Level 30: Grant Cover -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 32: Super Jump -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 35: Shield Charge -- Oblit-%Dam:50(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(36), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg:50(37), Oblit-Acc/Rchg:50(39), Oblit-Dmg:50(50)
Level 38: Greater Fire Sword -- Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg:50(A), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(39), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg:50(39), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx:50(40), Hectmb-Dam%:50(43)
Level 41: Char -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold:30(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg:30(42), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold:30(43), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:30(43)
Level 44: Fire Blast -- Apoc-Dmg/Rchg:50(A), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(45), Apoc-Acc/Rchg:50(45), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx:50(45), Apoc-Dam%:50(46)
Level 47: Fire Ball -- Ragnrk-Knock%:50(A), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg:50(48), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(48), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg:50(48), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx:50(50)
Level 49: Phalanx Fighting -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I:50(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 0: Ninja Run
Level 1: Swift -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 1: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+:40(A)
Level 1: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod:50(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg:50(15), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg:50(42), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc:50(42), P'Shift-Acc/Rchg:50(46), P'Shift-End%:50(50)
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