Fahie

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Put simply, I'm betting that LL has a good deal more money than NCSoft. Thus, it's tougher to sue them, cuz they get bigger, more expensive lawyers.

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And LL already have a crack legal team wrt the various times they've been involved in lawsuits. Eg customer IP disputes, prim losses, land snatches and so forth.

I agree that SL and other derivatives would be a more obvious choice for "worlds" to go after though.

Fahie

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All the screaming just reminds me of the doom threads after ED and that was for the better IMO too.

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I think the difference is that ED actually meant putting more skill into your build. So, after the initial "noooo!! I've lost perma hasten" people were happy-ish with just putting some more effort in. Then of course IO's came along too.

The trouble with I13 PVP IMHO isn't that it's changed, it's that it's been massively dumbed down.

Change I can cope with. Making it boring I can't.

Fahie

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We need an IQ restriction and series of social tests for this game.

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/signed /signed /signed !!

Actually ... I would probably fail said tests, but hey

Fahie

I was going on pre-i13, but yes .. tanks are so not useless in I13.

Fahie

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He is not. I've been told by plenty that they enjoy the new PvP system. And even some who dislike PvP are thinking of giving it a go.

I haven't tried PvP in about 2 years so can't really comment much about the new system. But it seems to be drawing in new and old PvPers, and that can only be a good thing.

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Given that

a) Far far more posts complaining about i13 pvp than praising it and
b ) The zones and arena boards are massively quieter than they were.

I think that the overriding impression is that it's pretty pants.

Sure, some people may say "I'll give it a go with the changes" but I imagine that a fair few of those would say the same *regardless* of what those changes were.

There's lots of threads in the pvp section of the boards regarding I13 pvp for those that haven't read them, just to save running over all the same stuff again

Fahie

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PvP fails in MMO's because Tank classes have no true role and become ignored players.

Fix the Tank and PvP can grow from there imho.

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ice-energy/ss ??

One of the top tier pvp toons.

Agreed however that not many other tanks are that useful in pvp except for well co-ordinated team pvp.

Fahie

I have a storm/energy that is LOTS of fun.

Hardly an uber build, but you get to play pinball with hurricane and energy knockback

Fahie

Definate no from me.

Ignoring the PL'ing aspect, we sometimes as a SG like to run PI arcs. Should another SG member come online it's nice to have the option to SK them up, rather than force them to play a 50 if they want to join in.

PI is the only place we can do this.

If you want a zone with less PL requests, go to RWZ.

Besides, I quite like the "u got farm?" tells ... they're fun people to annoy

Fahie

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Personally, pressing alt+tab for targeting closest target while jumping and shooting is not a problem for me, so I wonder if the original breaking log suggestion would change much.

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It would certainly change;

1 : Running away from someone. Just before getting out of LOS, hit placate, then change course completely.
2 : Targetting the annoying dominator hiding in the large group of masterminds after they have broken lock.
3 : Given that you target nearest mob when hitting a power, you may find yourself hurling blaze at a nearby hellion all of a sudden.

i.e. ... all the annoying things stalkers do with placate.

So yes, I think it would alter things quite a bit.

Fahie

Simple answer :

How about putting placate in the presence pool instead of intimidate?

Fahie

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Being forced to grind your [censored] out in order to have a chance in PVP doesnt make sense to you? Ever heard of game called WoW?

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It's nothing like WOW, it doesn't take a whole week of raiding to get one purple.

And you don't need to grind for influence, play the markets instead.

And you have a good chance in PVP with a SO build providing you know how to play it. Whenever I pvp'd in SC I lose my set bonuses, and I still ( well, pre-i13 ) did pretty well.

Following your train of thought, what's next? Disable all enhancements in pvp as some people don't have enough influence to slot SO's ?

Balancing PVP to make it completely fair to everyone makes it boring, as evidenced somewhat by I13.

Fahie

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By not penalising those that spent the time to get them youre penalising everybody else. Its either or.

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I can *kind* of see your point. But, to me, penalising those who don't put in extra effort is better than penalising those who *do* put in extra effort.

It's more like no-one is penalised. Those who put the extra effort in are rewarded.

Time for another simile:
Someone on the dole complains that just because someone else works hard for 8 hours a day that they shouldn't have anything extra.
They demand that either they get the same amount of money as them, or that the money is taken away from the person that works.

It just doesn't make sense to me.

Fahie

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Well if no diminishing returns means that IO sets retain their effectiveness, I would still be unhappy.

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Why ?

I know you *hinted* about the subject before but I don't get this "I hate IO's" mindest that several people seem to have.

IO's are earned, be it through farming, playing the markets or simply ploughing through taskforces.

They're *in the game* ... why penalise those that spent the time to get them?

It's like telling a formula one driver "sorry, we're going to a wheel off now. You've gotten quite good at this driving malarky now and we want to level the playing field again"

Well .. it's certainly a step in the right direction!

Now, if we can just get the damage, resist and mez changes reverted I'll be happy

I'll be happy to try out this "half-way" house though.

Fahie

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How to win friends and influence people...let me give you a tip - it doesn't include insulting everyone who has a view that differs from your own.

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... Or has more 50's

/signed, because I like to PL concept alts

Fahie

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internal testing copy of the new forums and

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??

did I miss something ?

Fahie

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Silly question, but Union or Defiant if you are serious about going ahead with this plan, Fahie?

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Well, I wasn't being serious but I'm on union if anyone feels that this may be plannage.

Just need to level up a stalker with sharks now

Fahie

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This will never work. The I12 crowd will never accept a defeat under I13 rules.

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Which will of course prove that I12 rules were better

Fahie

I think that the whole pvp camp is divided into two (rough) sections.

Those who believe that things such as movement, speccing out a build and the "rock, paper scissors" of I12 pvp is best.

And then there are those that think diminishing returns, movement suppression and *I13 balancing* are best.

I have an answer as to how to decide this ..

A BIG GROUP PVP ARENA BATTLE!!!

Winners get to decide how pvp works from now on

Fahie

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I so shouldn't get involved, but...

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The "bunnyhopping" you are complaining about is called movement. It's what used to make pvp in CoX so much fun.

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Fun for who, exactly?


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Well .. for me

Joking aside, pvp in many other mmorpgs has no real movement to it I can see. You stand at set distances and fire your spells off at each other.

I like having movement being a key part, but then that is perhaps the part of me that enjoys fps's too.

The same has been said by supergroup members who like pvp too.

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1 ranged attack with a short range ( 40ft )
1 cone attack with a very short range (30ft)
1 pbaoe with an even shorter range ( 15ft, basically melee range )

No AOE's in that set that I can see

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Pedants rule, or to be more exact, protray some of the characteristics normally associated with royalty.


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I think you mean portray, not protray

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It's way easier to hit someone when you need to get within 30 ft than when you need to get within 5 (or even 7). Please don't say otherwise. Your attempt to make your opponent look stupid is just making you look like you don't have an argument, currently.


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I never said otherwise.

The point was made that spines was unique in that it had *lots* of ranged attacks.
I was pointing out ( as someone had briefly mentioned earlier ) that the epics allow for much better ranged attacks than anything spines has inherently.

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That's on the specific point, not on thegeneral argument. Do, please, continue.

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Shan't ... I'm in a bad mood now and shall sulk in another corner of the forum <stomp><stomp><stomp>

Fahie

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Forgot the p infront of aoe big deal :-)

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And the B

Completely different power-types though

Fahie

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2 ranged attacks in Spines + 1 med range aoe, maybe check the set before posting ?

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Check the set yourself

1 ranged attack with a short range ( 40ft )
1 cone attack with a very short range (30ft)
1 pbaoe with an even shorter range ( 15ft, basically melee range )

No AOE's in that set that I can see

In comparison, the epics have 2, 4 and 3 ranged attacks respectively, all of which eclipse the range of impale, up to 80ft in some cases.

Fahie

Sighs

The "bunnyhopping" you are complaining about is called movement. It's what used to make pvp in CoX so much fun.

Two answers.
Chase them down or bring them to you.

For option 1, just make sure you're movement speeds are high and that you know how to use them.
For option 2, either webnade, tpfoe or use the scenery to block LOS so they have to come back to you.

If you don't believe either is possible then you need to play some more. It's possible to chase 99% of people down with anything other than a granite tank.

It sounds like you fall into the "why don't people stand still when I want to hit them?" camp.

For reference, my spines/sr scrapper was my best zonal pvp character pre I13.

Fahie

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You can't - that abilitiy has been suppressed


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Lol

I thought it had just been set to a 2 second time limit, then you were off the list again

Fahie

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There wasn't I check every day every 2 hours or so, old habits die hard for me

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As per my above post.

That just means that there were no people unhidden in them

Fahie