Fahie

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I pose the question, if you never had pre i14 PvP would you still be unable to enjoy it?

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If I enjoy something, I'm not going to pretend that I don't in order to seem like something I'm not.

So, in answer to your question. no, I still wouldn't enjoy I13+ pvp, same as I didn't enjoy pvp in EQ 1/2 ( a system that "didn't" get an overhaul. If pvp isn't fun, I don't do it.

I13+ pvp is terrible, especially 1v1 ( roll an ice/ss ftw! ). Arena non-DR is just about bearable, but the fun with CoH was the zonal pvp.

I'm just annoyed that I finally found a MMORPG where i enjoyed pve AND pvp ... and they destroy the pvp aspect after I put in a year or three.

Given that it's only the SG keeping me here atm, I15 had better be good.

Fahie

I think the correct internet-speak term here is "lolzorz!"

I was kind of holding out ( in vain I know ) for something to happen to PVP that restored my faith, but the above just destroys all hope of that.
There wasn't even a "soon" (tm)

Think I may go and take a look at champions when it's out.

Fahie

There has been a general consensus or the past few months( about 80% at a rough guess ) that a rollback to I12 pvp would be beneficial.

We haven't had any responses of any kind regarding it from the dev team.

See http://uk.boards.cityofheroes.com/showfl...e=0#Post1289457

So don't hold your breath.

Fahie

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But narrowing the gap for newb pvp'rs answers the time old complaint of why non IO'd toons don't try Zonal PvP,. It's narrowing the gap for those select few that is needed, as they grow in experience and gain IO's and Rep they will loose the Elusivity bonus and become a part of the community,,, it's like an introduction scheme.

[/ QUOTE ]But then you have the issue that there is very little point in slotting up a power, because slotting it means you lose an elusivity bonus.

Ok .. let's turn this around. There perhaps needs to be something where the playing field is levelled, but for me to return to pvp full time I would want a no-holds-barred zone of some kind plus arena options. The adreneline buzz of said PVP was far more fun ( for me ) than anything in I13

[ QUOTE ]
1)Non pvp'ers are the ones that we want to encourage to try it, where else is this busy pvp community going to come from, getting IO's from PvP is an incentive for PvE'rs to try something new.
2) There is a similar thing in PVE, Merits. It's primarily where the PvP-Xp idea came from,. Reward for completing stuff the devs encourage, notice you don't get merits from farming,. Cause they don't encourage that. PvP-Xp is a way to encourage PvP.

[/ QUOTE ]If we say that said PVP-xp can be used to buy specific PVP IO's, then I will agree to that as a compromise

I suppose it's better to have pvp alive again with personally percieved flaws, rather than as dead as it is now ( dodo ).

Merits are different, they were introduced to *replace* an existing system which gave you IO's, it wasn't changing creating a whole new method for IO gathering.

Don't get me started on MA tickets

Fahie

Only going to quote a few points before we pyramid this thread

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Everything is open to abuse, only thing I can suggest here is that you can only gain reward from 1 player you have defeated with say 15 – 30 mins, or we could have reward suppression.

[/ QUOTE ]A time limit may assist on this. Still don't like the idea personally as it's very easy to abuse, rather than being difficult.

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No no no, this is not DR, it doesn’t nerf any toon, it simply means that a toon completely new to pvp would have a marginal advantage to aid in surviving long enough to enjoy it over a PvP veteran. I’m trying to cover all complaints to why people avoid PvP.

[/ QUOTE ]But it's having a similar effect to DR. It's exactly the same as nerfing those with earned sets as you are narrowing the gap between the non-slotted/purpled toons.
I for one don't think this is a good thing, and I only have one fully purpled toon.

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The only effect that this would have on the WW markets would be to drop the price of IO’s as they would also be available elsewhere… this cannot be a bad thing, it’s something that is needed badly with single IO’s now costing in excess of 100 Million Inf.

[/ QUOTE ]Disregarding whether or not prices are too high ( a different conversation ), this idea is changing the whole principle of IO's. A couple of major problems; 1) non-pvpers will complain that they have to buy IO's from other players whereas pvp'ers can buy them with earned XP leading to 2) PVE'rs ( the core of the game in all honesty ) will then demand a similar thing in PVE. I cannot see this happening.

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Actually since i12 I think it’s clear this is not a simple problem, if it were then im sure there would have been many simple answers… as it stands a complex answer that covers all avenues seems most likely to succeed

[/ QUOTE ]Given that the general consensus is "roll back to I12" .. it is a simple problem with a simple answer. Further improvements are more complicated I agree, but what I am saying is rather than fixing everything all in one go with 27 changes, lets perhaps suggest one thing at a time. Maybe the PVP community should agree on 3 basic recommendations to the PVP problems, rather than us all ( myself included ) arguing over all the semantics.

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this is a problem, for ages now PvP has been a huge game of Rock Paper Scissors… attempting to move forward here :/

[/ QUOTE ]But we want to move "backwards" first to I12

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It not a bad idea, for ages now people have craved PvP rewards, a reason to try it… and a zone where sets don’t count?? Dunno bout any purpled toons out there, but I would avoid it. Creating a faction in the PvP community, when the goal is to bring everyone together

[/ QUOTE ]Given that you can't purple out a toon till 50, are you saying you don't do ANY pvp till then? I for one will jump into SC as soon as I hit 22 and try out a potential pvp toon to see if it's going to be fun/useful/effective. I don't expect to win a lot of battles, but it gives me an overall idea. I will hit BB too for the Shivans. RV should certainly NOT nerf sets. I can't see why BB can't though, and I always felt that warburg was more of a *fun* pvp zone rather than serious.

Fahie

They weren't overpowered, they were just very good at taking down other squishies very quickly ( ala stalkers )

the only real overpowered toon in I12 was a perma-dominator, but those could easily fall to a cohesive team.

Fahie

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1) Roll back the Majority of PvP to i12 ( including Diminishing Returns, Telelport Foe's phasing effect, healing suppression and movement suppression)

[/ QUOTE ]Agreed

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2) Keep Toggle not dropping when mezzed change, only hostile toggles like Radiation Infectiona and HotFeet Etc.

[/ QUOTE ]Agreed

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3) Add i13 Elusivity values to softer/squishier type toons to blance it out and give them a fighting chance, if i13 Elusivity value was say "10" and "0" was value before it was introduced then Archetypes should have the folling values.


[/ QUOTE ]Not agreed. This is merely moving the problem about, rather than solving it. And even if it were to happen, giving MM's the same as Blasters ?? You *have* heard of BG mode right ?

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4) Keep new Hold Res instead of Prot system.

[/ QUOTE ] Unsure about this atm. Will withhold judgement for the moment.

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Soooooo....

This brings us to, what seems to me to be one of the biggest issues, IO's Set bonuses Proc's and Set Bonuses.

1) Hardcore PvP'rs obviously don't want to give up their IO's they have worked so hard to get.

2) New Toons are scared of being defeated by the myth that is the allmighty Purpled IO warriors that lurk in Zones waiting for fresh meat to chew on.

So my suggestion is to change the pvp scoring system and how it is worked out.

Each IO should have a value, and therefore IO'd toons will have a "IO" rating.

[/ QUOTE ]How are you going to set up this rating system? Merely on rarity, or tier level, or average market price? I can't see any of the above working as each IO is worth different amounts on different toons. LOTG recharges are *essential* on my ill/rad. They're merely a nice bonus on my scrapper

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The reward for killing an enemy will be based on their Rating, which will be their current Rep(1-400) + IO rating minus that of your own Rep + Rating.

SO.....
if you kill a Purple IO'd Brute with 400 PvP Rep with a non IO'd Blaster with PvP rep of 1 you would gain alot more "PvP-Xp" than if that brute killed the blaster.

[/ QUOTE ]So .. you can farm pvp XP by having 2 toons, each with dual builds. One build purpled, one with nothing slotted. They then just keep switching builds between them to gain silly amounts of PVP-XP. This is completely exploitable. If you say that you count IO's in both builds, then you are penalising those with a purpled PVE build too.

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Infact!!!, what if 2 players rating were so far apart their Elusivity bonus increased against that toon, to give the non IO'd toon a better chance.

[/ QUOTE ] Huh? What? <rubs eyes and stares again> You *do* realise that you have just re-introduced DR to your plan?! It's exactly this "levelling of the field" and nerfing of sets that I thought you were trying to avoid!

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"PvP-Xp" could be spendable at a PvP Store for IO's that are already valued.

Meaning that non IO'd toon would get the chance to become IO'd and already IO'd toons would have more of an insentive to attack other IO'd players over the newcomers.

[/ QUOTE ]Oh nononono! The ability to buy crafted IO's at anything other than WW will severely affect the WW market. Currently, you cannot buy set IO's ANYWHERE other than from WW ( i.e. drops ). Having any form of store will just overturn the whole IO system.

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Ofcourse i am open to critism and suggestions, but sureley this would give players the chance to get IO's in a more fun way than farming for hours.

And encourage people to try PvP.

[/ QUOTE ]I think the main problem with the above is that it is a complicated answer to a simple problem. Complicated answers generally have more flaws and more ways to break the system.

PVP Balance does not mean PVP equality. It doesn't matter that Toon A is typically better than Toon B as long as Toon C is better than A.
As long as there is nothing that is "ubertoon", pvp will be balanced to a greater or lesser degree.

Yes, some kind of training zone where sets don't count will help people get into pvp without being mashed, but a whole PVP-XP system ... a bad idea in my book.

Fahie

I've said it before, I'll say it again.

Put IO limits ( no set bonuses ) on BBay and Warburg.

Don't put them on SC and RV

That way, players can have a nice intro to zonal pvp at varying levels without having purple sets be an issue.

The hardcore PvP'ers, who tended to frequent RV and SC anyways pre I13 will be happy as well.

This way, you can introduce yourself to pvp, and once you are happy you have the hang of it, move onto the other zones.

I'm sure some kind of "radiation" plot-theme could account for the lack of bonuses in BB and Warburg.

Fahie

ps : obviously remove suppression, DR and so forth too

Definately hamis, with the odd frankenslot here and there IMHO.

No point going for sets for 150 Mill. The sets you can buy in that range won't be better than hamis.

Fahie

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Believe it or not, some people actually still play villains.

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He's telling lies! No-one plays Villains anymore, it's all a Nemesis plot!

Fahie

From when i *used* to pvp a lot, necro was always the most underrated set imho. No ideas post I13 though.

Having said that, up for a no-DR arena duel if you want to test something out

Will play with DR if you're nice

Fahie

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The glowie seems to be set to spawn in Any location - the first time it was right around the corner from the entrance. Out of curiosity I tested it a few more times and it spawned in the middle once and in the back once. Should be set to Back, because it instantly completes the mission. Anyway, it's an Arachnos computer (odd choice) with schematics for a trans-dimensional portal on it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just in case anyone else encounters this problem, just checked and the item *was* set to back.

Seems there may be a minor buggete!

Fahie

Woot! 4 stars!! Thanks Col

As to your points, taken on board and it's nice to have some feedback.
* Noted ref introductions ( didn't even cross my mind ).
* Noted ref self-induced-stupidity.
* Noted ref supersoaker
And the other points such as object placement etc

As for theme ( and random superpowers ), all of the Quorum *should* have dark somewhere in their powersets bar Sorrow ( necro instead ). I'll take a look and check.
And yes, the ninjitsu ones are a pain. We spotted that with a perma-faceplanted blaster when we team-tested it, but thought I would wait and make all the changes together.

Thanks for the up-front comments Colonel, I'll be taking a look at the arc this week.

Fahie

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AGREED, THERE SHOULD BE AN IO PRICE CAP, 30 ODD MILLION RATHER THAN 90 - 100 SOME PURPS ARE GOING FOR NOW.

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I disagree.

I don't farm much at all, but have earned enough to kit out my primary toon 100%, and some others to a 2/3rds point.

Price capping will only;

a) annoy everyone who *has* paid a lot for their IO's in the past
b) reduce their appearance on the market ( only 30 mill ... I'll keep it thanks )
c) shorten that curve *yet* again.

People will pay what something is worth. If you don't like the price, put the small bid in and wait. I didn't pay over ~35 mill for ANY of my LOTG 7.5% on the market. I just waited a few weeks till I got them.

I really hope that a cap is never put on WW prices.

Fahie

( p.s fully aware LOTG are not purples, just a nice benchmark )

I think kilop just described all the things I hate about I13+ pvp

Fahie

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Out of interest Col, are you rating on the MA stars theory?

Just that you say "Overall, the arc is decidedly average." yet give it 5 stars.

Certainly not having a go at you, just trying to judge where your ratings are falling.

Or are you simply stating what you rated it in game ?

Perhaps adding your own "X out of 10" gut feeling in a review?

I do feel an external review site in the making here, or is there already one ?

Fahie

[/ QUOTE ]Unless my eyesight is declining, the one you're referring to got 3 stars from me , which is what I consider "decidedly average". Old hero arcs and radio missions.

4 is good, worth playing, but has a few noticeable flaws that could use tweaking to make it even better.

5 is great, awesome, something I'd actively recommend, any flaws are unimportant.

On the low side, 2 is below average, needs heavy work to become good, but is salvageable.

1 is "I want the time I just wasted back", needs extreme reworking or a complete rewrite from the original concept.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are completely right ... serves me right for drinking vodka and scrolling back in a thread to see what rating you gave an arc

My apologies :S

Fahie

Out of interest Col, are you rating on the MA stars theory?

Just that you say "Overall, the arc is decidedly average." yet give it 5 stars.

Certainly not having a go at you, just trying to judge where your ratings are falling.

Or are you simply stating what you rated it in game ?

Perhaps adding your own "X out of 10" gut feeling in a review?

I do feel an external review site in the making here, or is there already one ?

Fahie

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Question for Col i mean. (sorry sorry blond moment here)

From reading your reviews you are using a pretty hard AT to do them. Might I suggest using a more appropriate one when you test low level arcs? I found that trying to survive with a lowbie gives another perspective to an arc. Especially when it is supposedly designed for lowbies.

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Devils advocate here;

Using an underpowered lowbie will take Col longer per mission. Given he's just jumped in at the deep end with a review-tastic thread then I think we should forgive him for playing a higher-powered toon, thus reviewing arcs quicker.

Additionally, col has been around long enough to be able to work out when his toon is ploughing through minions that it may be tougher at lower levels and factor that into a review. This also avoids him having to give up an arc due to a particularly tough boss/EB.

Fahie

Good Review Monsieur Blitzkrieger, and on that basis happy to put the first of my "Shadows" arcs up for review. ( I haven't written the other two yet )

ID (#53149) Whispers in the Shadows

One thing I will own-up to straight away is that I haven't put descriptions in for the mobs yet, it's on a todo list.

TIA

Fahie

Agreed, /unsigned

If you think the number of farm maps is bad now, imagine what it would be like if this was in place.
Plus, as above, it would undermine the legitimate holders of said badges. I'm only 60 or so off of the illusionist badge, which has taken AGES. To have that effort stripped away would be even worse than DR in I13 pvp

However, I agree that things like the mentoring badge should be applicable, as there shouldn't be any difference between mentoring someone in an artificial reality, and outside of it.

Heal/damage etc badges, not so sure about.

Fahie

I was going to step into this thread earlier, but I can see people are on the ball already and have hit the nail squarely on the head.

Fahie

ps : It will take some time for my split-sides to heel after so much mirthiness

pps : /signed btw

I'm a "me too"

Tried a couple of times last night, got the "there has been an error, please try again later NcSoft error page.
Checked this morning, 3 codes and 3 charges.

Have raised with support. I'll give them a day to get back to me :P

Fahie

Thanks Dave

What happens if you edit an existing published story?

Specifically:
Do you lose the ratings you currently have?
Does the ID change?

TIA

Fahie

Your PC will *normally* only shut down due to temperature issues, rather than OS or power problems.
Other issues may cause a reboot, but not a shutdown.

I would guess that you are overheating bigtime, and the automatic temp-monitor is taking over to protect your investment. If your PC speaker ( not your desktop speakers ) is connected it should shout at you with warning beeps prior to doing this.

Trying turning down "maximum particle count" in the advanced graphics options, as fire uses a fair amount of these. If that cures it, there's your answer!

Fahie