Extremus

Castle's already said that a homogenous bar won't work with Newfiance.

But I sure as hell want something other than blast icons, hell, give them a UNIQUE icon at least.

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Also, I don't like the Icons at all. Doesn't tell me anything. I want the defiance bar back. Or the Fury bar in this case.

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Actually yeah, I agree with this completely.

I don't want to be second guessing whether they're my attacks buffing me or enemy attacks hittin' me.

Ehh... as an aside.

Defiance really doesn't seem fitting name wise with what we've got now on Test. Determination is closer. :\

Shoot while mez'd is nice some of the time but hey, when fighting higher con mobs or mobs with res to your attacks meaning you do piddly damage really, there's not a huge amount you can do.

Also hard numbers on the stacking Fury style buff plz.

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I would say,
go. Test defiance.

Seems to be up on the testserver

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Has there been any buff at all?! Whatever it is it isnt big enough for me to notice it!

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Not at home so can't check ATM, but if your old Defiance bar isn't there on test then the changes are up.

Stacking ranged damage attacks should show you the most difference. It'll be equivilant to about a 40-50% +damage buff on live's numbers after you attack a few times (ranged damage buff of +25%ish plus "Fury").

Oh, and the fire-when-mezzed thingy...

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Sure as hell doesn't feel like it.

Yeah so I tested the new Defiance against some Fake Nem's and War Hulks.

Ehh... it's not that great, sadly.

Unless it's a monumental buff I don't think I'll be as impressed in a res heavy enviroment as I might 1v1 or in a smaller fight.

See I'd love to test all this stuff out, but the patch is too broken for us to be let near it so I guess I'll wait til next week.

Pretty much - but the point being put forward by people like Mes, TG and Hammer (and myself I guess) is that it will cause a reduction vs high Res buffs which is really something PvP does not need.

Especially when coming to easier resisted attack types.

Getting it closer to the numbers and vs a controller's APP, assuming pure s/l means that even with an APP shield Blasters get an overall buff in more casual affairs:

Current:
100 (30% unresistable) = 45% of 70 resisted (meaning 38.5 received) + 30 = 68.5 damage.

Proposed - assuming no unresistable portion:
140 (all resistable) = 45% of 140 resisted = 77 damage.

That seems fine and dandy and an overall increase in a Res buff free enviroment, but lets crank it up a bit.

Now:
100 (30% unresistable) = 75% of 70 resisted (meaning 17.5 received) + 30 = 47.5 damage.

Then:
140 (all resistable) = 75% of 140 resisted = 35 damage.

At least that's my understanding of the way the game currently handles the resistable/unresistable portion of blaster damage etc... but hey I've been up ill for over a day now so I may be off. Also it doesn't take in to account different damage types and res % to said damage types. Still, theorycraft is a laugh. Also I may have broken the math.

Unresistable damage isn't the same as a res debuff so 600 damage including an unresistable portion -vs- no res is the same as 600 completely resistable -vs- no res. This is fine.

If, with Newfiance and a reduction/removal of unresistable damage the 600 damage w/unresistable portion becomes 750 damage [u]compeltely[u] resistable I think there's a problem. It (as far as i can work out) means Blasters will do more damage against targets with no resistance and less damage against targets with resistance.

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Unfortunately the bleed-through effect of the PvE changes will possibly make Blasters WAY too overpowered compared with other damage dealing ATs in PvP (they were already arguably overpowered before the change, when teamed with toon(s) that can boost their survivability in PvP).

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I'll agree with this to a point - this is true for Zones (and in some cases Arena) until they come up against a comparable team either meaning Blaster+Others or another combination that works efficiently.

I have no huge problems with the new Defiance as I have yet to test it, I have some issue with the animation changes on Fire and Ice Blast - but I don't think lowering the unresistable damage proportion of Blasters in PvP is a viable way to tone it down if Blasters are overperforming in a team enviroment. It'll just hurt the less adept sets more than the high end ones IMO and that's a bad way to go and will possibly lead to even less diverse PvP teams.

Problem is even now a Blaster, solo, has trouble dropping a buffed Squishy even if they're only relying on a self heal from range.

If all the damage gets reduced via resistance, it makes it all the harder. This is bad for balanced team fights IMO as it'll lean even more to the single digit kill fights that can be seen. It's less about who can get the most kills and more about which team drops the ball first because Res is such a big safety net when you throw in the odd heal.

Xanthus managed a full IO build, and he had maybe 30/40 million tops and that was from scratch near I9 going live.

So it's not exactly rocket science

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as you say your self just now, its set/setup Funny, first you say its all about team play, now you take 1v1 examples. (take a granite/ice for example, 1 of the best pve, 1 of the weakest PvP).

Just admit, PvP always had a gimp-factor, first it was defence, then it was the new IO's, the TP, mez, toggledrop, now its resist.. Not to mention the 'elitism' of IO's making the 'gap' towards the casual players even worse.

I just wish they remove entire PvP from CoH, saves another possible powerfix is some PvE power gets way to powerfull in PvP and get nerfed due it.

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Here's the thing.

Name me a power that was nerfed in PvE because of PvP. And I want a good, solid PvP only nerf.

Regen was broken, no reason to take anything but so that's out. Besides, at the time SR was broken in the Arena and pretty much untouchable due to the way Def and Acc were calculated then. Infact, the IH change was a PvP buff at the time.

Controller changes to holds, nope, PvE change. A Controller could single handedly lock down pretty much every mob with ease and with Pets could easily walk through them.

GDN, well, Invul was broken in PvE, so that change is out.

ED - the game is arguably better now with ED in place.

APP Blasts... nope, that was a PvE nerf and a seperate PvP nerf so that's out.

Toggle Drops... oh wait, non-existant in PvE.

Mez Protection changes. Yeah, again, this was broken in PvE. You pretty much just weren't going to get held ever.

I think I covered the big ones.

You want PvP removed from the game? Sure, that's your decision to think that and I'm cool with it - I want [censored] combinations like AR/Ice to be buffed to the levels of something a bit meatier like Sonic/Elec or similar but some people seem content about nerf herding simply to moan, rather than ask for buffs constructively.

Infac,t if you don't care for PvP, why are you posting in this thread? This is about PvP changes, not PvE.

The reason I gave 1v1 examples is because you mentioned player/set up and also in relation to the fact that the game should be balanced for teams. In teams, unresistable damage is fine and IMO needed thanks to the prevalence of +Res buffs, especially ontop of APP/PPP shields at 44+. In the lower levels it can seem a bit overpowered, especially 1v1, but 1v1 a lot of the time Controllers will come out on top or something like a Tank or a Scrapper will simply because they have high survivability.

Finally, IO Elitism? What? OH NO SOME SETS ARE EXPENSIVE JESUS CHRIST!!! Well you know what, it's not hard to make money, even if you you just play casually at 50 chances are you'll pick something up that'll sell properly, hell Dmg recipes vendor for what, 110k? That's not bad. Anyone moaning about not having Influence Post-Inventions should have a think about what they're doing with their drops.

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However they can counter def way easier then other sets (except FA scrappers - although against elude even they also get a hard time) imho compensating their drop in damage versus high resist.

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What. Def is hilariously easy to negate now via IO's on any AT. My Scrapper without FA can get 37% Global Acc bonus and 13% Global ToHit Bonus quite easily. Throw in Build Up which when slotted is what, 30% ToHit ontop and oh hey look I'll just hit this guy at the soft Def cap a few times. Besides it's not just Buffs that counter Def easier, there's more -Def buffs ingame than -Res from my recollection.

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A 'good' tank is highly subjective, more related to set/setup then to player.

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[censored]. 1v1 I severely doubt I can kill a Fire, Invul or Willpower Tank especially if they have Aid Self. I sure as hell doubt I can kill an Ice or Stone Tank. This is assuming Tanks are /EM and actively fighting, but I figure that goes with the territory as we're talking high end Blasters.

Any large team fight is likely to include (and tactically should) +Res in my opinion simply because +Res is so stupidly usefull. It's not like Sonic or Thermal Rad are new sets and therefore in short supply, especially Therm's. I keep tripping over the buggers on CoV.

Res isn't as easy to counter as Def and having a Blasters damage halved or worse sucks, and that's with the unresistable damage portion we have now. Problem is with a reduction or removal of unresistables is that it's going to end up shafting sets like AR and Archery a hell of a lot more than sets like Ice, Fire and Sonic Blast. Fire probably being the least affected simply because of Blaze and Fire Blast being pure fire damage. Oh, and Flares, but that's still naff. It's a bit like the Controller APP change that was (we generally all assume) an attempt to curb Fire/Kin powerlevelling, especially stateside but left */Kin Controllers the least affected.

1v1 it can be a bit silly (as can controllers, scrappers bla bla bla) but PvP is and should be balanced towards Team fights, it's where this game's strength lies. I certainly can't kill a [u]good[u] tank on any of my Blasters, and if I actually do manage to get a kill, I'm probably going to drop at least one in the process - especially if I'm using my Ice Blaster as he's lacking a self heal. Besides, you can get what an extra 300-600 HP depending on AT with set bonus' and accolades now? That goes a long way to enhancing survivability.

Proceed directly to here to see my reply - Do not pass Go, do not collect £200, continue driving the Whaaambulance to the PvP Forum where it belongs.

Proceed directly to here to see my reply - Do not pass Go, do not collect £200, continue driving the Whaaambulance to the PvP Forum where it belongs.

I'm interested to see what the numbers are for December.

Castle regarding Newfiance in PvP:
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As I mentioned not too long ago, I'll be doing a big batch of datamine work soonish, and PvP is definitely one of the Red Flag items for the new Defiance. If it looks *too* good, then reducing or removing the Non-resistible damage and/or Toggle Drops would be the likely place for adjustment.

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Source


That'll suck RE: the unresistable damage in team fights when everyone has +Res buffs up the [censored]. As for Toggle Drops, hey, I don't think anyone's really counted on those since... ohh May '06.

(And no, I still don't like the animation changes to Fire and Ice).

Regen isn't about base regen rate - if you think it is you're sorely misinformed and I suggest you go and take a look at the powers. Since the IH change Regen is now all about the heals, and yes, a Regen can get those up very fast now (I know, I have one, it's dumb).

Scrappers aren't exactly damage kings, especially at 50 when squishies have APP shields. Infact, I'm pretty confident I can kill most regens with my controllers (Fire/Rad and Fire/Kin - don't comment on the sets, the whole O HAI FOTM comments are stupid and just betray a poor knowledge of the game imo).

Also, using -Regen to fight a Regen? AHAHAHA WHAT?! Are you serious? Slows. Slows, slows and more slows is probably the easiest and safest way to combat a Regen.

As for Blasters? Damage-vs-Survivability is where it should be at IMO for this AT, infact, it's a bit lower than where it should be, Newfiance is attempting to address that. While I agree that Aid Self combo'd with IO's and something like Powerboost seems daunting, and it can be to new PvP'ers, it's not impossible to counter especially with a Controller.

You seem to be coming from a Controller stand point, well last time I checked rocking 20 BF's in an Arena match leaves you short of ten minutes and - personally - I have no problem stacking over a Break Free (or two... or three maybe) as well as a Tanks Mez Protection. Hell, I've gone over Unyielding and Unstoppable on Test so you can't come crying to me that you have trouble holding a Scrapper unless they've got an entire tray of Strength of Wills which I highly doubt.

I really, honestly don't reply to these things like this, but your entire post screams "<X> BEAT ME SO <X> IS OVERPOWERED PLEASE NERF <X> SO IT WON'T BEAT ME AGAIN". Well you know what, maybe it's not overpowered, maybe you just don't know how to play against it.

In the high levels I have two Controllers, three Blasters, two Scrappers, a Tank, a Brute, a Stalker and a Defender and I can honestly say none of those AT's are an automatic "I win" button.

Go back to the drawing board and try again, and for the love of God can you please work on your sentence structure.


(Oh, and if you don't want to read the entire post - I am trying to be at least reasonably constructive in parts of it, I can summarise the entire thing up with learn2play).

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A team of stalkers with some proper builds can beat any balanced team on arena imo. As for duels, there are some builds a stalker will never beat, but they can always force a tie, no matter vs who, and that's something no other AT can do

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Ice Tank's can come pretty close, perma Dull Pain and a 33sec Recharge on Hibernate.

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Pah he's scared to go in to the Arena with us.

Just ignore the stupid kid.

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and kick him from your teamspeak!!

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Yeah, we did that. Good times...

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Not sure if this applied to anyone else, but seeing anything from you in broadcast would have been very hard after having /ignored you for being as abusive as you were.

Perhaps the helpful pointers were just thinly disguised under abusive and unhelpful outbursts.

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Talking about pancakes is abusive?

Seriously though - the US has Hami down quite often, no reason we can't if people don't mind a few failed attempts until we get the hang of it.

Pah he's scared to go in to the Arena with us.

Just ignore the stupid kid.