Ex_Libris

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Hasten needs to be on ALL the time, and it must do so with few enhancements. If you do not feel it's balanced as is, I have a thread going that lists possible compromises, but Hasten MUST be constantly active, regardless of the performance costs. The power is not useless, nbut it is simply not worth it as it is.

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Umm.. put down the crack pipe and seek professional help guy. Just because scrappers "are fast" like you said and attack fast, that DOES NOT mean that you should be able to constantly without any pause at all keep attacking that fast and with that much damage without any drawbacks at all.

It's absurd to say that Hasten must be available all the time.

So I was correct in saying the AM increase was a knee jerk reaction and unfairly lumped in with hasten. AM haste increase is about half of what Hasten and its not available to everyone like Hasten was.

That being said your post "glossed" over the reasons. Sure its a good buff, sure it has many + elements. But look at the Radiation line hard and tell me we dont need it. Maybe fix the stacking, or decrease the %'s or take out some of the useless + elements such as fly.

I say either correct it properly or leave it the way it was, increasing the recharge timer until you could figure out what to do with it was lousy.

ROFL... Geko's posts are truely a breeze of fresh humorous air in these our usual worlds of dev-spins. Only guy who dared to post fun stuff like this that I remember was Stormy in AC

I'm also sure that Geko knows that his great work would be made a TON easier if this level/class based game had a freaking RESPEC in...

Ok not that all the people here testing this are gonna see it but I just found out some interesting information through testing. When testing the recharge time of hasten DO NOT leave your mouse pointer over the icon to activate it. If you do it give a false reading of when it is ready to be reused. The icon will stay greyed out looking longer than it actually is. However it is not 10 minutes it is 9 minutes.

Wow what a cool post Geko! And people can see why we love the Lizard

base number then may actually be 9, thanks for the added info. the reason we have been bandying the 10 minutes about is because the calculations for recahrgers is off from geko's info.

it does fit a 10 minute recharge though. read geko's post, or rei_momo's or do a search for hasten recharge times. many of us are doing some pretty in depth tests (at our own expense of fun and influence) to hammer this stuff out.

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geko said:

this is what is bothering many of us. we were told hasten can be recast with a 14.1 second downtime with 6 SOs. this is also untrue, hasten has a base recharge of 10 minutes, not 9 minutes. now you are telling us a "few" recharge enhancers will allow a rad user to "keep this buff on the team permanently". well this is simply untrue. im not accusing you of lying, but its obvious you are wrong.


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I don't know where you are getting this 10 minute number but I just made 2 characters and powered them up to get hasten. I checked on both of them and got 9 minutes with no enhancers from the time I hit the button til the time I could hit it again. I activated the power 3 times on each character in 27 minutes. Where are you getting this 10 minute recharge time?

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What it comes down to is any FOTM will get mashed. Scrappers and radiation def/cont took it this round as their "need to have to be competative" powers got spanked.

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I don't understand this part of your post... Scrappers and Defenders definitely weren't a FOTM, ever. Almost every scrapper I've played with switched to Blaster instead, and aside from myself, one Kinetics guy (who frequently says he hates it because he spends all his time casting Speed Boost over and over and over, but doesn't want to reroll), and a couple Empaths, none of our Defenders are left either.

And that was before the nerfs to Hasten and AM. Talk about kicking people when they're down.

Now, scrappers are the class of choice for the bored L40s who are waiting for the rest of us, and want to play something that isn't like turning on God mode when they log in. Defenders, well... apparently no one is *that* bored yet.

these posts can and will go on and on....

What it comes down to is any FOTM will get mashed. Scrappers and radiation def/cont took it this round as their "need to have to be competative" powers got spanked. Blasters and tanks should be next since mid range (insert above classes here) had there functionality cut due to additional down time and lowered productivity. I'm sure when the blasters start getting there recharge times extended on their mid to high range attacks this will start all over again. I mean all these things were balanced in beta right? Well since scrappers were "balanced" allowing for hasten I'll enjoy the soon to be smack coming to all the blasters that can't figure out why having a power with 6 DO enhancements after patch is worse then the power was unenhanced pre patch.

Guess when they need help killing yellow non LTs they might just see the world without there rosey little glasses. The hasten/AM nerf was a kick to the teeth of all mid to low range charecters. The skills are worthless till high level yet there level 8 or lower skills.

I went from soloing lonely orange bosses to getting my *** handed to me by an orange LT. why? well my damage out put doesn't keep up with what i deal out and i only heal 1/2 as often. Since an orange boss is the end of a solo mission i would assume i should be able to actually i don' tknow solo him? There was something some where about this game being soloable wasn't there? And no i didn't have any End left after those orange bosses i ususally had to wait for end to recharge enough to heal. For END beign the end all "more immportant then HP" (Geko) Hasten helped you burn more of it I rarely finishe da fight with END and i'm a regen scrapper with 3 green Trainers as i cant seen to get a DO for that.

well thats my 3 am rant. I'm not overly enjoying my charecters lately but at least i get a good laugh out of the boardes......

I am very happy with Geko's posts of information and reasons. I'm not sure I agree with them all, but what was said was honest and far better than not hearing anything at all. I also cannot deny that some long thought has been lurking behind the hard decisions that the Devs have made.

That said and acknowledged, I also have to agree that the Radiation Metabolism buff needs adjusting, badly. Please consider reducing the strength of the buff overall in whatever format is acceptable, and drop the timer down to about 4 or 5 minutes.

A power that you can use for every serious fight, one right after another, is fun. It's a psychological thing. I don't know how to sum it up any better than that.

As for Hasten, it sounds like you did what you had to do in comparing what the older version of Hasten could do for a character against what careful slotting of recharge enhancements could do for a character. If Hasten was making recharge enhancements obsolete and inefficient, which I think it did, then a change had to happen.

As long as the math stacks up to Hasten being a usable alternative rather than a waste of a power, then the right thing was done.

Iduno also had a very good list of concerns and facts backing them. Thank you, Iduno and thank you Geko.

an addendum to my previous post.

AM with 6 green SO = 1m47s downtime.
AM with 6 green SO AND hasten = 1m10s downtime.

geko said:

"About AM. I hope it has not gone unnoticed that AM is a good buff. It buffs your attack speed AND your run speed AND your fly speed AND your damage output AND protects you from sleep, hold and immobilize. 2 rad defenders could keep this buff on the team permanently. Even 1 could do the same thing wiht a few recharge enhancements. That really is too much buff time for an AoE buff that is this powerful. Again, I negelcted to account for the fact that AM hasted itself, so that added to the problem. We will probably reduce the RT time on it a bit. I am not happy with how long it is now, but it was too fast before."

a few recharge enhancers? 6 green SOs doesnt qualify as a few then i guess. because you CANNOT keep this power on non stop. with 6 green SOs you have 1 minute 47 seconds after effect ends and recast is available.

this is what is bothering many of us. we were told hasten can be recast with a 14.1 second downtime with 6 SOs. this is also untrue, hasten has a base recharge of 10 minutes, not 9 minutes. now you are telling us a "few" recharge enhancers will allow a rad user to "keep this buff on the team permanently". well this is simply untrue. im not accusing you of lying, but its obvious you are wrong.

now the real crux of the issue. most of us that were "nerfed" or "balanced" dont really mind the power changes. we mind that we are STUCK with these powers we would NOT have taken if during picking them they acted as they do now. i for one am out 6 slots and 2 powers that i could really use elsewhere but cant now.

I love the game and have no issues with the changes from the last patch,
But this caught my eye

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*I will not make a change to the game simply because it is popular.

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This statement is rubbing me wrong, Ive been sitting here for about a half hour trying to state my feelings on this one, yet cant find the right words to not offend anyone.

It just feels like your saying, I will listen to what the mass's want, but just because most of the player base "most of the people paying to play' wants something, i wont give it to them. No compromises, Just a flat out Your out of Luck

Then its followed by,

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*I will do my best to continue to make this game fun.

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How can you do this by denying what the magority of the people playing the game want?

Im sure im just reading your post incorrectly and appoligize in advance, just would love some insight into this.

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I see nothing wrong with Rad Blast and RAd Emmision END cost. It is comperable to all other sets, and identicle to their counterparts on others sets.

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What about the fact that Defenders are just plain weak? I'd be happier if you made AM single target than make it a situational group buff. No other AT *needs* the buff, to be honest. Watching a Blaster outperform me by such a vast amount that I wonder why I even bother using any power except Enervating Field isn't what I call "fun". When I say outperform, I'm talking the damage I do, the additional damage I empower others to do, and the damage I heal/prevent vs. their damage. I'm not even in the ballpark compared to Full Auto and Trip Mine, let alone the rest of the AR/Devices sets.

I'm not saying go nerf Blasters, but I was simply stunned on Monday to find out that DEFENDERS got hit with the nerf bat. As if doing only 65% of blaster damage in our secondary AND being the only AT who pays 25% more End for every single power in the secondary wasn't bad enough...

I realize this probably comes across as a "grass is greener" post, but I already played Blaster in beta. I found there to be basically no challenge in the game, and I wanted to play an AT which was more suited to a group. I was content was my abilities, both solo and in a group, until the patch hit this week even though I knew that my powers paled in comparison to pretty much anyone else but a Scrapper's. Now I just feel like an idiot for changing my mind about what AT to play in release.

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Yes, I actualy had that, and accidently edited it out. But that is a very significant part of the power. But that sorta is my point. AoE END REcovery is very powerfull. Only Emapthy has another AoE Recovery boost, and its the second to last power and has a 500 second recahrge. Nothing is more powerful than END. It is probably more important than HP. That is what makes AM so powerfull, and why its recharge was increased. Other defenders dont have that advantage. It was unbalanced. But again, the RT tie will be reduced, but not to the way to used to be.


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I feel like Rad defenders are being punished because thier buff comes at lvl 2 and empaty defenders get thier buff at level 18.
I can get to lvl 18 in a week of play, so that to me makes no difference.
Recovery Aura is like having 5 or 6 Am's on at once, no matter what you can't dent your end pool. With AM on all the time I still cratered my end pool every single fight. I was on the way up the fitness pool to get more end because AM was not nearly enough.
Right now AM is on a longer timer than Recovery Aura. AM is not near the buff that Recovery Aura is. Even if you take into account the extra damage and all the other stuff AM gives, the damage output of the team is far greater with end recovery on than with AM.
Rad defenders (I have a lvl 21) need the End to even function, I was able to keep AM up all the time before patch and I didnt feel it was anymore powerfull than say hurricane and steamy mist from the storm set. The storm and force feild defenders can keep their powers up non stop and the bonuses to the team are always availble. AM should be a toggle or revert back. It should not stack with another AM either, thats the only time it starts getting out of hand.
AM is a MINOR buff in many things. There is Nothing Major about the buff.
Defenders pay 25% more to blast for 35% less damage than a blaster. Not having the one single buff Rad gets availble seriously gimps that AT. I tried to play mine and gave up. The end costs are just too high, I stand around and watch while everyone else plays. Many Rad defenders are Rad/Rad and the Rad attacks are very low damage and low end cost. Rad defenders who took another secondary run out of End so fast its pathetic.
When you compare all the other defender AT's benifits that can be availble all the time to Rads AM which is only 4 times an hour it's clear something is very wrong.
AM is the Backbone of Rad defenders, buff and debuff. Without the buff half the Rad defender is missing.
If I cast slow, one ball lighting and 2 heals thats my entire end pool right there. As a Rad defender thats 120 points of healing at lvl 21 and about 50-80 aoe damage and a slow that wears off and wont take accuacy enhancements.
The best buff is enervating feild but that stops all end recovery due to its high cost of toggle. So if I toss 2 debuffs, one ball lighting and heal 2 times I am out of end and not getting any more till I turn off enervating feild.
At lvl 21 many fights can last 4-10 minutes (like the Tsoo, darn sorrcers(great coding btw)). In fights like those without AM running on me my team would be better served by anyother AT. This is wrong. My whole guild now shuns Rad defenders and everyone who had the Rad set defender or controller has rerolled. Everyone agrees anything else is better and more fun.

Geko just said AM was going to be adjusted. I use Hasten and don't find it useless. It effectively adds 2 recharge SO's to all my powers and hasten itself can be enhanced to be almost always on.

AM = unusable.

Haste = nearly so.
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Why do devs think downtime is fun? I certainly don't. Being able to use all your powers in a fight (strategically) is cool. Helping your teammates is cool. When your powers cycle at an extremely high rate, you can't use them (obviously).

Do I get to choose a new powerset now or do I keep playing the same now-gimped design for the next two weeks? I was planning on playing this for months more before the nerf and now I'm just wishing I could get my money back -- it seems a cynical calculation to do a nerf on this scale JUST after people buy your product/it gets reviewed.

Do you actually enjoy just leveling over and over again when your character is nerfed (in short, do you actually play this game)?

Have you quit other games because of similar things happening to a character you put time and effort into? Quite a few people do.

Lots of us started CoH because other MMORPG's gave us this kind of thing over and over and you seemed different. Lots of us have now cancelled our subscriptions (mine was formerly for several months) because practices like this make it appear that you aren't.

I just want the game I actually paid for back. That's what it takes for me, and those like me, to resubscribe.

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I know I'd sure like an up front answer whether or not stamina is being looked at for "balancing." Otherwise I'll skip the rad powerset entirely and just pick up stamina like 90% of the rest of the population.


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There is not present plan to modify Stamina. It takes 14 levels, and 2 powers to unlock stamina. Then it takes 2 DO enhancements for Staminas END Recovery buff to be as effective for one player as AM gives to your whole team. Yes it is Auto, but it stil does not give all the other buffs AM does.

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Thanks Geko, much appreciate it. Will scrap my radiation controller and try another secondary set and pick up stamina. Others may like strong and occasional powers, but I'd rather have weaker and permanent or almost permanent. Just personal preference I guess, but I can't stand powers with long timers.

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Maybe the adjustment to AM was needed for group balance, but something is wrong with the Rad set, because it was very much dependant on AM's effect on the hero in order to function on an equal level to other Defenders. Now with AM not filling the role it did, Rads are not competitive.

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I completely agree with this assessment. AM may well have been too enhancing to a group, but without it, the Rad defenders are sorely lacking. Radiation emission is already one of the power pools that has many next-to-useless powers.

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I have a friend who has said he will stop using fireball because of the end cost. He took the power, and now wont use it.

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Haahahaha, that's hilarious. Fireball is quite possibly the most powerful base AE damage spell in the game. Not using it is like making a controller and refusing to do CC. The end cost on fireball is more than reasonable, and slotting a few end reducers will mitigate it even further.

My main toon is a fire blaster, and fireball is my favorite power. It is, quite litterally, the bomb.

Geko, I have no idea where you've been for the last 3 days, but I wanted to thank you for taking the time to answer so many questions regarding the changes to AccMet in this thread. The changes to that buff caused no small amount of distress and the lack of explanation following created even more confusion and angst. This kind of conversation is exactly what people needed.

I look forward to the proposed shortened recharge timer. At this point in time, anything is better than the monolithic one it has now.

Seems like geko is online now?
Can you plz look at some of my posts and answer some of my
questions?

I can still read this board even if Im banned right?
or do I have to change to my other account?

Geko is officially my new hero.

Name Of The Game - Crystal Method

Which is why I now think stamina is a better power than accelerate metabolism. Stamina is on 100% of the time and costs no endurance to cast. I don't, and most other users don't, care that much about anything except the endurance buff.

I know I'd sure like an up front answer whether or not stamina is being looked at for "balancing." Otherwise I'll skip the rad powerset entirely and just pick up stamina like 90% of the rest of the population.