EvilGeko

More evidence of the extreme positions and unreasonableness of the pro-KB crowd. No one questions people when they say the want to have their energy blasts pink to go along with their kawaii Hello Kitty themed costume, but somehow it's considered problematic to want to avoid scatter which has patent deleterious effects.

The facts are these: KB is a problem in this game because so much of the rest of the game wasn't designed with KB in mind. As you say, AoE is effective and it is deteriorated by excessive scatter. Why is someone wrong for wanting to use their powers to the maximum? Isn't that the essential argument of the pro-KB crowd? Why do you wish to deny to others that which you claim as a right?

Other problems that KB causes is that melees in this game often have no ranged potential. You knock an NPC away from them you can cause them to lose the effects of buffing (RttC, Invincibility, AAO) and you force them to either chase the mob (which could interfere with the above powers) or wait for that mob to return. Either way disrupting their effectiveness for the marginal benefit that KB provides. Many of the pro-KB crowd ignore these issues or worse, like this poster try to make the victim the villain.

KB is a comic book staple. In a game that didn't have the legacy design problems this game has it would be no problem to knock mobs all over creation. AoE steamrolling is problematic because it devolves the game and lowers risk. It is also problematic in my opinion that most melee characters don't have some ability to retaliate at range until very high levels. IMO, that's broken and it exacerbates this issue.

But I don't see either group as the villain. I understand that people who enjoy KB. I even enjoy it from time to time. I also understand people who do not like KB. Accommodating both groups is possible and IMO a much better use of developer time than trivia like power customization.

I agree the time it takes to manually add these effects to each power is time consuming. But difficult? I can't agree with that.

No, not really. The ability to do this is already in game. The mechanic that would allow this has already been deployed in a context outside of its original creation (Dual Pistols).

It's not a question of "can they do this?" It's a question of will. The devs don't have the will. Probably because of certain people who would complain about others being given more choices. But there you go.

Yes, most certainly.

I'm fairly indifferent as to whether the toggle would turn KB on or off, but it seems weird to have a power that you turn on to turn an effect off.

At risk of angering the standard code rant god, I don't think that the coding work is the major drawback from the devs standpoint. I think the devs don't want to cause the inevitable friction that would occur as some people would demand that people turn off KB. I wouldn't, but I certainly see how people would. Especially since Energy Blast and Kheldians would likely see a renaissance.

And Peacebringers. But I would also give this to melees. Some people might enjoy having KB added back to powers like Headsplitter.

There is a solution that would make both sides happy and wouldn't require anyone to slot a special enhancers to keep or remove KB.

THE SOLUTION

• Everyone one gets a new power called "Knockback".
• Knockback is a no-cost toggle which cannot be detoggled by mez (like most self buffs)
• This power would flag the character as Knockback TRUE! If this power is not on a character is set to Knockback FALSE.
• All powers that currently can slot KB sets or enhancers would be changed to have two effects: 1) .67 KB which would ignore enhancers and buffs/debuffs; 2) whatever level of KB the power had or the developers wish for the power to have. (e.g. if a power had 3.2 KB before this change, it would be given that much after the change) This KB effect would be affected by buffs and enhancers.
• The second KB effect would only activate where a character's Knockback Flag is set to TRUE!

WHAT THIS WOULD DO

OK take your standard energy blaster. This blaster logs in and right now his Knockback power is not toggled. All of KB powers now do Knockdown. Even if he has 234% of KB slotted, his powers would still do only Knockdown. Then the blaster turns on the Knockback toggle. Now the character's Knockback effects are turned on and all his powers do KB.

Melees who sets had their KB powers reduced to KD long ago could have those KB powers returned because the player could choose to use KB or not.


It's up to the devs whether they want to go through the coding work to do this. I have strong reason to believe that this solution would work, but it would require coding. I also believe that the devs wouldn't do it because KB is used as a detrimental balance on some powers like Repulsing Torrent.

Ditto, just like the costume packs the magic one is the best IMO and worth the cost on its own.

EQ2 had a vet reward that capped your vitality (i.e. patrol exp here) and you could use it once a week. Forever. On each character.

This vet reward. Meh. Not going to complaint about it, but it's nothing to write home about.

Again both sides do that. Some people argue that the Crusaders are inherently evil and will accept no argument to the contrary.

I always appreciate that the Hamidon is a risk. But risk is inherent in freedom. Calvin Scott, to my knowledge, has never stated that things will be safer under a free rule. In fact, I personally do not believe that they will. I think the most likely scenario for Praetoria freed of Cole is escape to Primal Earth and the surrender of Praetoria to Hamidon.

I find that to be a vastly preferable solution than the status quo. Because freed of Enriche and living in Primal, the people of Praetoria have a chance to make their own way in life without the nanny state, without the thought police and without Cole. I don't see how living in the nightmare that is Praetoria appeals to so many of you.

By the same token, I wish the pro-Loyalist side could honestly engage on the issue. The Seers are horrific, Cole's mad plans to invade Primal are horrific, Neuron's failed experiments are horrific.

I really get tired of people waving these things away. It is no better than GGs arguments.

Fixed.

Episode III was a particularly apt example of that.

Not true. If fact, I find "Neutral Good" to be the most good alignment. It's good unhindered by the concepts of law or chaos. I consider Luke Skywalker, Lawful Good, because uphold certain societal norms of fair play, fair dealing, honesty, etc. He's a criminal in the galaxy of SW, of course, but that's because the government is currently in the hands of an illegitimate ruler who came to power fraudulently.

I agree to a point. But I think that someone who values good and is less concerned with rules (whether they be societal norms or actual laws) is likely to better epitomize good.

As for the role I play, I'm fairly extreme in my defense of individual freedom, yes.

I don't see good as "selfless." There is an argument to be made that being good, even in absence of legal mandate, is in one's personal self-interest. I think altruism, kindness, empathy, respect other's rights better reflect goodness.

I don't believe Lawful Good is more good.

But they weren't dictators was my point. They did not have the sort of absolute rule that Cole has.

Both rulers you mentioned had their power constrained by the Church, nobility and merchant classes. Not that those groups were any better, but it made both ladies seem nice in comparison!

It's standard dictator playbook. I don't even argue that he wasn't ORIGINALLY brought to power legally, but you can't get that job for life.

You can't "appoint" a dictator. He either regularly submits to free and fair elections (quite impossible given Enriche) or he gives up his right to call his rule legitimate. Personally, from the missions, it's not like Cole even cares if his rule is legitimate.

There is no need for a Lawful Good character to try and reform Praetoria. It is not based on the rule of law and rebellion against it is per se just. Luke Skywalker for instance would be Lawful Good, taking up the good fight against a tyrant.

Wait a minute. You have consistently held the Wardens to task for the supposed sins of the Crusaders. You have said that Crusader characters are villains because they murder innocent civilians, but now you stand here and try to let the Responsibility Loyalists out of the sins of the organization they work for.

Everything I've said is things that the PPD have done and can be observed doing in Praetoria. You don't get to have it both ways. If the Resistance can be written off as villains for the sins of a few, then hold the Loyalists to the same standard or show yourself to be a hypocrite.

The difference is that the people have no say. A say in the rules you live under is important. It's absolutely critical. It why when people trot out the tired and irrelevant argument that the USA has laws, all I can do is shake my head and pray for better history education.

Of course, we live under the rule of law, but we have the right in a democracy to have a say in how those laws are created and enforced. We can question the government and hold it accountable. This is not possible in Praetoria.


There is a corollary to the argument you make above. You denounce the resistance for opposing all this, but do not question whether the list you provide above is good or bad. Living in a nanny state is not good. Unearned safety turns a populace into sheep. That is not good.

Why do good parents allow their children to make mistakes? Because that's the only way that they grow. Freedom isn't easy, it isn't always fun, it isn't always safe. But it allows us to grow and develop who we are as human beings. That's a good thing IMO. And it's even further evidence of the absolute evil that is Praetoria.

No....they most certainly do not.

The law in Praetoria, a despotic regime, is illegitimate. No human being is wrong for opposing Praetoria's laws, which can more fairly be called Cole's desires.

And the Responsibility Loyalists are enslaving and killing innocent civilians. And propping up a madman. And engaging in extrajudicial executions. And torture. And abetting genocide.

Nice people for sure!

Thanks for that. I thought the devs and mods were trying to give me a hint!

Actually, that's pretty down on the list of reasons I drool over VEATs. You lack understanding of their true potential.


ON-TOPIC:

Kheldian's do not need more slots. Peacebringers need buffs in other areas, Warshades are very good right now.

1) Philosophically, no as to AVs/GMs. They should not be able to be soloed IMO. It runs counter to their intended strategy. If they were more interesting fights, I suspect that would be the case.

2) I've soloed every EB I've come across with any character. On many of my characters I've soloed many AVs. On 2 characters I've soloed GMs. I felt pretty proud of beating Ghost Widow as an AV and the Kronos Titan as a Monster. Other than that, it's so easy to a point that I don't think much of it. I don't even bother with most characters these days other than to see if they can do it.

3) I think level 50s fighting 50+ AVs will wreck (in a good way) older level cap content with Incarnate abilities.

That's as an extreme a position as saying that any energy blaster or Peacebringer should be /kicked immediately.

Some folks don't like KB and they are not idiots for not wanting to learn about it. Plenty of folks don't bother to learn about the market or IOs, a decision that hurts them a lot more, but they aren't idiots, they just don't enjoy that aspect of the game. Likewise, some folks don't like KB. Some folks make the quite rational decision not to use a set that has it while other more valuable secondary effects are available in other sets.

Calling people idiots who make rational decisions based on their subjective enjoyment of the game is, as I said, extreme at best. At worst it brings to mind a saying about a pot and a kettle. Now how does that go...

A person is an idiot because they realize that they can play Ice or Fire or Radiation or Psi and not have to "learn" to control a secondary effect that's putatively supposed to be helping you?

OK.

Personally, I don't feel the need to demonize either side. Some people enjoy the thrill of knocking opponents back and some others would prefer not to. That's all there is to it. The fact is that you don't have to learn to use the secondary effects of most other sets because they range from always useful to at least not detrimental. KB, whether you like it or not, can be deleterious to both a player and a team if used poorly. Now, I'm not nearly unreasonable enough to say that those occasions are that problematic. I've played a KB heavy character and indiscriminately used KB and been on a team when someone else was. It's not that big a deal. However, some people don't like it and they have every right to that belief.