EvilGeko

Originally Posted by Olantern

No, I wouldn't accept a delay for this reason, even putting aside the fact that it's totally unrealistic to expect anything to change. When the feature I wanted (create your own missions and arcs) was released, I don't remember the powergaming, Type A, ambition-focused players who drive me so crazy arguing that it should be delayed because it didn't fit what they wanted out of the game. So, no, even though I think the implementation is pretty wretched, mechanical character improvements like the Lore slot shouldn't be delayed simply because its backstory grounding and visual presentation is pretty wretched.

Someone in either this or another thread (it's getting hard to keep them straight) argued that "art wasn't a priority" for development. Well, no, of course it isn't. While there are players out there, including me, some roleplayers and some not, who view this game primarily as an animated movie about their characters, not all players think that way, and the devs certainly don't seem to.

The devs are game mechanics engineers. They, and, incidentally, a lot of players, view this as "game," not in the sense of "a game of 'let's pretend,'" but in the sense of "a game of football" or "a game of Monopoly." For those players, and for a majority of the dev team, the game is something that can be "won," in one fashion or another. Art and story are means to support the ends of gameplay, not ends in themselves.

For example, those who are AE mavens may remember Dr. Aeon stating that much of his job consisted of being told things like "write an arc about a hero who goes bad" or some other, rather broad, direction. He doesn't create a story about Incarnates and then send Positron and his minions off to develop a system to support it; it's the other way around. (Yes, I'm aware that development probably isn't quite that one-sided, but years of dev discussion of the way they work convinces me that I'm more or less correct.)

Similarly, Going Rogue was born not because the devs really wanted to show off Praetorian Earth, but to provide a mechanism for switching sides and for gluing an end-game system onto a game that hadn't previously had one.

With that kind of development structure, you're going to get some serious misses if you're the kind of player who prefers the "support" of art and story over the "meat" of gameplay. I'm not arguing that those priorities are necessarily right, but I think they have to be acknowledged.

Further, the gameplay element here, I think, is seen as particularly crucial to the life of the franchise. Incarnates are this game's attempt to capture the raider-/advancement-driven market of the hardcore MMO player. Rightly or wrongly, it's an attempt to bring in a demographic that hasn't been part of the game's primary market before. And I suspect that, for that reason, here even more than elsewhere, art and story have been even less of a driving force in creating the new content. I can clearly imagine a dev raising the kinds of objections players here have at a development meeting three years ago and being told in response, "Yeah, those players will be dissatisfied, but they got all those years of costumes and power customization and that AE thing. They'll be satisified with that. Anyway, people will only do this endgame stuff if they really want to win more parts of the game."

Now, you can argue that this represents a misunderstanding on the devs' part of how players can cross from one demographic to another, but I don't think it's a totally unreasonable mode of thinking. Yes, I'd be happier if some consideration had been given to granting me the ability to tailor Incarnate content to my characters in nonmechanical ways. But I can't really fault the devs for overlooking that option. They weren't expecting someone like me to use the Incarnate system in the first place.

So, to all those disappointed with the (over)emphasis on Tyrant, the Praetorian Lore pets, or the inability to make the fire from your Pyronic WhiteWall Radial Judgement green, I suggest keeping in mind that you're not the target audience for this stuff. The devs believe, rightly or wrongly, that you're already loyal to the game, that you have enough features to keep you occupied without this. Those boosts are meant to ensnare and keep players who just want to "beat the game."

Now, I question the wisdom of that design philosophy. I don't much like that kind of contest-oriented thinking, in a game or in life, for that matter. This new direction the game is taking troubles me on some level, but I'm not willing to hold back the enjoyment of people who have been screaming for it for years. I am not the only player here. I don't have to love everything.

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow

You just did. I have nothing against you, Dan, but what do you think you achieved by posting this, other than a "take that" at these people you seem to have contempt for? Do you honestly think someone will read this and say "My God! He's right! I must stop doing this!" Because from my experience, all that does is cause more animosity.

I know Zombie Man enjoys the animosity and feels it is his duty to put people in their place around these parts, but again - that does not help. Like I've said before - if you let one-off posters make their one-off post, ignore it and move away, their one-off post will have no significant impact on the thread. If, by contrast, you opt to start a huge argument about it, the thread becomes about that.

Originally Posted by Eva Destruction

Power Proliferation is a Powers issue. The appearance of the pets is an art and animation issue. What do you want them to do, animate you an Illusion Dom? The pets' mechanics aren't the issue for a lot of people. They can get art and animation redoing the look of the pets, while the powers team gets cracking on the Martial Arts Blaster secondary

Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill

Probably the best argument FOR a delay I've ever heard. Illusion doms... ugh.

Originally Posted by Venture

Yes, they are Praetorian mobs, yes, we all read the stupid flavor text, and no, gluing feathers to a rat doesn't make it a swan.

Originally Posted by Canine

Biff's not just a boss.

He's an *Arachnoid* Elite Boss, IIRC.

Arachnoid Bosses are a high damage, mezzing, regenerating, debuffing nightmare. Arachnoid Elite Bosses who decide they really have an urgent appointment somewhere else?

Originally Posted by Golden Girl

They launched with a little shopping cart icon as part of the social UI

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow

I feel much the same way, and an "arms race" is a good way to put it. What I tend to dislike about most traditional RPGs is that they're so designed that you slowly fall behind the power curve and need more and more help to do less and less. I know the story tries to convince us that we're stronger really, really hard, but the fact remains that everything only gets more and more difficulty and requires more and more people.

"Show, don't tell." I'm being told I'm stronger, but I don't see it. I don't "feel" it. It just feels like my enemies are racing ahead of me.

Originally Posted by Steel_Shaman

To be fair, we as players really have no idea how time intensive something like powerset proliferation is. For all we know, it could be as simple as copying and pasting an entry from one database to another. Or it could be a living hell that takes a team of people days on end to do one single powerset. Because of that I try to avoid making statements about how easy or hard something would be for the Devs to do.

Originally Posted by Liquid

That's why I said "in a year or two". There's no opportunity cost between the slots, so while you might shoot green lightning, and I might shoot yellow lightning, and Joe Bob shoots green fire, we all have a super-damage AoE. And so will the other people we are teamed with. Common, rare, very rare-- that's mostly about effectiveness. I'm talking about the very fact that we all have a high damage AoE and a massive buff (and the pets, which are obviously the most visible aspect, but I don't want to focus on them).

That's what I'm asking about-- not 5 months from now while there's still some variety, but 1-2 years from now when, on the raids they have then (and on all level 50 content! Imagine this on the ITF and LGTF, and STF, etc), people are firing off their Destiny powers in a cycle and alternating Judgement. Even leaving the pets out of it-- I'm asking, how do you feel about that?

If your response is the same, and you figure people won't bother with filling every slot, that's cool. I just want to make sure that I'm being clear.

Originally Posted by Seldom

This will sound trivial, but if all incarnate powers could be recolored, the whole personal power thing would be moot.

The pets make little sense even with lore. "I'm an incarnate, I'll reach into the well and pull out a robot!"

...wait, what?

Originally Posted by Lothic

It is strange to think that eventually a fully slotted Incarnate (with all the Alpha, Lore, Judgement, etc. slots filled) will really be more a virtual "Incarnate AT" than a "random AT/Powerset alt who also happens to be an Incarnate". The old concepts of being a specific AT or having specific powersets will be minimized in favor of simply being an Incarnate, as if being an Incarnate was a brand new AT in and of itself.

I suppose it'll lead to a kind of "cookie-cutter homogeneity" the same way it would if everyone eventually only played Peacebringers or Widows.

Originally Posted by Celestial_Lord

Lifetime subscriptions does not increase the likelihood that a game will use micro-transactions

Originally Posted by CanaDixieMan

I see that the Distinguished Competition has been offering this, but I don't really think I want it. I WOULD take advantage of a "lifetime" sub to CoX, as it's proven itself to be the source of thousands of hours of creative recreation. Yet I don't find an option for this in account management.

Who else would shell out for a "lifetime" sub?

Originally Posted by CactusBrawler

That's the thing though what happens next?

If a person doesn't want/isn't able to, take part in raids and so on, what are they to do? Especially when the next issue is Incarnate gated, and the issue after that? Well they can just leave, seems to be the response from the dev defense force.

Originally Posted by MajorPrankster

As my wife is fond of saying, "If you don't wan't people to laugh at your beliefs, then perhaps you should not have such funny beliefs."

Originally Posted by Aura_Familia

Eh, from those statements of his it seems like he is coming at it from an RP perspective rather than a mechanics one.

Originally Posted by CactusBrawler

This game used to be very alt friendly, but now it is becoming like a generic 'fantasy' MMORPG, choose one toon as your main and do your dailies and weeklies to gear up, don't bother rolling an alt because you'll progress at half speed.

Originally Posted by Aura_Familia

Uhhh I don't think folks don't know where the powers came from by now.

Originally Posted by Aura_Familia

Social interaction =/= teaming. Hell I've seen LESS social interaction in speed runs. Ive been on speed runs and regular teams where NO ONE talks. I'd bet eventually the same will be of these trials.

I get more social interaction from the Global Chat Channels than some teams. This idea that teaming = social interaction in game is a fallacy (especially for this one).

And thankfully this MMORPG isn't like the dreck that's out there.

Originally Posted by Aura_Familia

Doesn't make them any less unimpressive.

I think folks get where they come from. That's the issue with the design.

Folks are requesting alternate pets for the system. I don't think the suggestion is unreasonable.

But I don't see that option happening any time soon or for ANY of the currently revealed slots.