EvilGeko

The Cole tyranny is not simply 'corrupt'. It is a oppressive dictatorship. Slavery isn't 'corrupt' it's evil. Extra-judicial killings are simply 'corrupt' they are evil. Conquest isn't 'corrupt' it's evil.

There is nothing safe or semi-safe for the citizens of Praetoria. This is not to say the Resistance is better (they aren't - their tactics are abhorrent) but to say they are worse and brand others as immature is one of the most foolish arguments I've ever seen on these boards.

Honestly, you use terms like "immature" and "pre-adolescent" in ways to minimize those who have a different value system than you. It's laughable because such tactics truly condemn your beliefs to the moniker you choose for others.

287 doctors agree that Speed Runs are essential to heart health!

932 lawyers agree the Speed Runs are an absolute defense to fail!

2579 engineers use Speed Runs instead of pocket calculators in making safety calculations!

I have Fly on every character and Hover on most, thank you very much.

And speed runs are fun! Slow boring shard runs are not.

Isn't the question of whether it's a slog dependent on how you feel about it in the first place? Pretty much this game is all about beating up polygons over and over with different window dressing. If you go into a particular goal with the mindset that you're just going to have fun beating up polygons then I doubt anything will feel like a slog.

Then he punches you back!

Winning!

A Mild Mannered Reporter

To me (which is probably of no surprise to anyone), that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. But it had me wondering. If you could have EITHER (no cheating, you can't have both) the most cool looking power in the game (however you define it) OR the most mechanically strong power in the game which would you choose?

Did we ever try to nuke our Hami? I know we bring plenty of rads along when we fight him!

Actually, when you posted that trollish comment about the hospitals, I just started screwing with you. Starting with the "Darn straight" comment. I would have thought that was obvious from that comment but I'll add a next time.


Actually, I didn't. You assumed that. Now please don't start quoting things I said in an attempt to show that I meant something other than what I just said.

If I posted something that made you think that, I'm sorry. I was being a jerk.

That's the slippery slope argument. And it's always been rubbish to me. Each decision you make is an opportunity to turn back. Just because you take the fight to the tyrant doesn't mean you're going to decide all of a sudden that you want to sit on his throne. Sure, that happens throughout history, but there's also plenty of times the usurper allows someone else the reins.

Even then, I disagree that Cole fit that model. There's plenty of evidence that Hamidon isn't as signficant a threat as its made out to be. Primal Hamidon is well contained.

They accomplish removing Cole.

It's great to stand for your principles, but if in standing for them, you allow a great evil to continue to exist, your principles mean nothing.

Interestingly enough, I agree entirely. Given the choice, that what I would do. Obviously, the game doesn't give us that choice.

My argument here isn't that Calvin Scott is a good man, or even justified in what he does. My argument is that Praetoria is so bad that I would be willing to work with bad people (Scott) to take down Cole, because he's demonstrably worse. And yes, I'm making a value judgment that anything that Scott has done is less evil than Cole's regime.

Cole is without doubt the most evil villain in the "City of." Scott is on the right side, but his methods are terrible. For the same reasons that I would work with villains to repel the Rikti, or keep the 5th column from corrupting the past, I would work with the Resistance to oppose Cole.

By the way, on this point. Scott is a man. Not a super. In a world of supers his ability to maintain any grip on power is marginal.

OK, so the alternative is? You just made an argument for allowing Cole's regime to continue to exist. For accepting endless tyranny, slavery, conquest.

I've said it in other places, I want Scott to win, I don't want him to rule. I'm gratified that he seems to have no real desire to do so. He's a soldier. A soldier in a conflict against a foe whose resources and powers are almost limitless. You condemn him while excusing a madman.

Here's the thing. For every atrocity you can post about the Resistance, I can post something about the Cole regime that's worse. To be frank with you I don't believe the Praetoria that's presented in the arcs should be allowed to exist. Were I in the suitable role in the Primal Earth government, I would regrettably authorize the use of weapons of mass destruction against Praetoria. Folks that become squeamish at the evils of the Resistance but somehow ignore the excesses and evil of the Cole regime gain no quarter from me.

So to answer your question. Yes. Opposing a regime as evil as Cole's by any means necessary is A-OK with me.

Take that to its logical extreme. It's evil to lie right? So if the Resistance has to lie about their membership in the resistance so that the resistance is able to operate and eventually take down Cole, then their lies make the whole enterprise illegitimate? Morality isn't a black or white issue. Real people have to make choices that don't fit neatly into someone's subjective buckets.

Bombing a hospital is wrong. Well what if its Mother Mayhem's hospital? Our heroes attacked that during the Praetorian arc. The existence of innocents in war zone is a given. Certainly you should try to minimize the harm to the populace, but you're going to be confronted with the fact that to accomplish your goals you're going to put innocents to death and sometimes intentionally. Because to get back to my example, Mother Mayhem is a high value enough target that she gots to go even if we take out some of her innocent victims with her.

When the other side enslaves children to be thought police and turns them over to a psychic vampire who will eventually consume their consciousness, it take a long time before you lose moral superiority.

Darn Straight!

It's interesting but I find the Warden path to be almost immoral because they don't go far enough to take down Praetorian society. I think GG or Venture said it best, "Tyrant's mustache-twirl factor is over 9000."

I thought they were just RP weirdos!


But you know, when they start putting up statutes of themselves while still alive that's when you know you have a problem.

Before Going Rogue, I used to wonder (seriously, I've spent real time considering the question) how dictators so easily hold their grips on people. I see now it was a failure of empathy. I did not realize how strongly some folks feel about safety and security, as illusory as security is in a police state.

I'm always amazed that so many people saw some glimmer of goodness in Praetoria and the Loyalist position. It's frightens me to my bones because it made me realize how dictators come to power.