EvilGeko

Fixed as there is a meaningful difference there.

I don't actually. I think there's a middle ground. I did not agree with the devs' decision on shard conversion costs for example. I knew that was going to get them flamed. All that said, I think folks who have a lack of patience should exercise the option available to them (the trials) to the extent they can. I recognize that because of time of play/hardware/etc. some folks don't have significant access to the trials.

You don't like 200 people packed into a zone hitting a mob for an hour and 35 Cleric Complete Heal chains?

Wouldn't that effectively allow people to legitimately grief the badges? For Lambda, all one person has to do is get the wrong (or any) weapon, and there goes a particular badge. On BAF all one has to do is pull an AV to another one. Boom no badge.

I'm not sure if that idea is serious or born of frustration with the thread, but if these trials were zone events they would be disasters. The Hamidon encounter is built in such a way that people can either get with the program or leech, but really can't do much to grief people trying to do the trial honestly. Not so much with the Incarnate trials.

Yes, of course it does. Each Incarnate ability you get makes you more powerful. It doesn't just unlock the next level of abilities. Not sure what your point was. I haven't played Portal so I really didn't know the answer to the question.

Portal has rewards beyond just moving on to the next level? (Serious question)

One of the reasons that many MMORPGs don't add "puzzle" type challenges is that they tend to be solved by one, then copied by many via sites like Paragon Wiki.

Make no mistake, I agree with you. I'm willing to wait as long as it takes to get what I want in most cases. I'm just saying that it's not really important why people want the abilities.

Oh, I understand quite well that people just want the Incarnate abilities because it's fun to feel powerful. No one needs the abilities for ANY content, including the trials. They want them. That's a perfectly acceptable view to have.

Let me ask you this. Why did you read, "When you all get older you're understand," into my post?

I didn't say that. I discussed how my personal views developed over time. It's simply a fact, that I used to get much more upset about this stuff, but age and experience mellowed me out. I know teenagers who have the same outlook. I know we all read things into other folks posts. I do it, everyone does. But I try (not always successful) to just read what people write and react to that.

Finally, as to discounting my views. No one cares what I or anyone else thinks on these boards for the most part. Mostly we just shout our views at each other and the devs react to make the most people happy in accord with their own goals. I respect most people's opinion on this issue, but we're long past the point where anyone is going to change their mind.

Actually, I'll just continue to post whatever I want within the rules. And you'll continue to snip. Your choice.

I've found that when you stop focusing on the goal, the time becomes irrelevant. I have characters I've even forgotten what Inventions I wanted for them. Recently, my Will/DB Tanker has a build that soft-caps SM, LE and a few other things. I had it all planned out in mids last year. Logged on recently to find that I had all the merits needed to finish it up without spending a dime. Just plain didn't bother because the character was already sturdy and I was having fun.

I used to play for shinies, but I got older and I got over it. This is all just digital crap. It's certainly fun to be playing my Incarnates on an ITF, but it's not so crazy that I'm going to stress that my other 9 level 50s aren't that powerful.

OK. Honestly, I've seen YOU and a couple of other people limit their complaints to that. But it's disingenuous to claim that people haven't been making these ridiculous claims about the whole focus of the game shifting. Hell, it's the subject of this OP.


The level shifts only work in the trials. If you're never doing the trials, you would never see said level shifts. You only get the differential in power between uncommons and rares. Significant for some slots (e.g. Interface), less so for others.

Well, two things on that:

1) I'm actually trying it instead of complaining about it. I have an alt that I am perfectly happy to just get to uncommon stage with. So once it's done I'll assess how it compares to my main Incarnate characters.

2) I don't find the fact that it will take a long time to be particularly problematic. Been here continuously for 7 years. Not planning on leaving. In no rush. As I've told you over and over, I don't play for shinies, I play for fun. I do the trials when I want fun, not shinies. I already have rares on my main Incarnates, even have the salvage for the very rares, just don't care to craft it. But I still play the trials because they are fun. I still play alts, I still do TFs.

More than anything, this is what I find so completely bewildering about this argument. That people can't just play what they enjoy and let the rewards come when they come.

Then folks should stop saying that the devs are copying WoW and other raiding games. In fact they should stop calling the trials, "raids" because they aren't.

Nice sideways flame, by the way. Proving my point about this cohort of complaints all the time.

Honestly, you accuse people of saying that a lot more than it's actually said. I'm not saying no one has said that. But it's extremely rare. Most people are objecting to the contention that the whole game has changed when it hasn't.

I personally object to the idea that you can't make any meaningful progress outside of the trials. Yes, it's slower, but it's only when you get to the rare and ultra-rares that it gets silly. Considering that people are stomping the non-Incarnate content with even commons, I don't see why people feel getting to the very rares is a reasonable expectation.

Yes, you are here to amuse me. Carry on.

You refuse any option other than the specific one you want. On that basis, any argument anyone offers is irrelevant because it's not what you want. You can participate in this system without doing the trials. You can move much faster by doing them. You don't want to.

You saying that is irrelevant is nothing more than you putting your fingers in your ear and refusing to listen.

A perfect example of the hyperbole of this argument. I'm willing to bet, based on his posting history, that this poster has never been on a raid in any other MMORPG. Anyone who has raided in other MMORPGs understands immediately that CoH's version of an endgame isn't comparable.

But that doesn't matter because it's easier to make things up and complain rather than give the content a chance.

They usually so degenerate because folks tend to use false and hyperbolic arguments in support of their criticism of the trials. As it is with this post.

Most of them did at one time. At one time:

You couldn't get a respec unless you had a full team;
You couldn't get a Hamidon Origin enhancers (which were quite powerful at the time) unless you raided;
You couldn't generate (although you could buy) Pool 'C' and 'D' recipes;
You couldn't and still can't get certain accolades, e.g. TF Commander, unless you team.

You're taking the definition of "progress" and narrowing it so that it suits your argument. Loot has always been a form of progression in MMORPGs, including this one. Loot has always been significantly easier to gain teamed in this game.

There is no change of focus.

Define "meaningful" progress? Personally, I would define meaningful as having uncommons in all 5 slots. That takes significantly less than hundreds of hours for ten characters.

Strange. I was able to log on last night and be in a mission inside a minute. What's changed in your mind? The fact that you have content that takes longer than two minutes to form? How has that changed from pre-Issue 20? Even forming an ubiquitous ITF can take 20 minutes or more at slow times.

But solo content can and always has been able to be done quickly upon logging in and is still there last I checked.

Most people won't kick stragglers or care they got dumped into their trial.

But once in awhile you do get a group/league that does care and a league leader that has no compunction about kicking folks the LFG tools puts in their league. So long as that stays an uncommon occurrence (unlike uncommon drops, of course! ) the devs are unlikely to do a darn thing about any of this.

My 2 inf.

And watch nothing happen.