EvilGeko
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:Are you saying, don't fix this bug, but have Null give the ability to fix it per player?Originally Posted by AmazingMOO
Of the many bugs plaguing this release of CoH, the one that makes me the saddest is the Knockback bug.
It appears that someone dropped a decimal point when figuring knockback, causing all knockback to be scaled down to (almost, but not quite) zilch.
The really, really sad part as that this was being cheered by many meleers.
(Really, guys. That hurts! Do Energy Blasters, Stormies, and FF Defenders cheer when you're nefed, accidentally or not?)
One person brought up the option of having Null the Gull give the players interfaces to control their own knockback powers.
I'd be willing to support that, except I happen to know a few individuals who'd harass others to turn off their knockback.
No, what I want is for Null to offer the following options: 'Regular Knockback', 'Double Knockback', and 'Increase Knockback with Power Boost'.
You haters can have a 'No knockback' in there, I suppose, but don't expect me to group with you if you want me to turn off my knockback beforehand. -
My DM/EA Brute is an absolute beast. My now 41 KM/EA Scrapper is amazing on so many levels.
I don't care what anyone says, EA is a top tier set now. Easily competes with Shield. -
Quote:As remote operated drones get better, I can see all manned fighters going the way of the dodo.Originally Posted by Model 75
"Dear departed?" I wouldn't go that far, though production ended due to costs and the F-35 JSF (also due to costs....) It just entered service in 2005, total of about 187 if I remember right. The ones in game are too small, and as I remember, single engined - plus the intakes are quite wrong to be an F-22. (Being nit-picky, they're probably "too small" to be an F-35, but they're shaped more correctly for that.)
F-35 (not yet in full service, in pre/early production and testing last I recall, and costs are rising.) -
Quote:Haven't done a Lambda weapons phase recently, but I thought those were the dear departed F-22 Raptor?Originally Posted by Model 75
Some look like Apaches, stylized. And while we're at it, the fighter jets in some of the warehouses (?!?) - this might just be Praetoria, but I do remember seeing them - look like the F-35.
I'd say it's "realistic base, artistic license applied." -
Quote:What if you added a certain amount of health that acted as negative health. So it would work something like this:Originally Posted by Arcanaville
A long while ago, someone suggested "reactive heal" for Regen: if you hit zero, a heal would fire instantly to bring you back above zero without dying, and this could happen once per some interval. The problem then and now is that the tech doesn't exist to do it. In fact, back then the best we could say was "the tech doesn't exist to do it" and now I can say "I'm not sure how you would do it even if the devs wanted to add the tech." "Dying" is a difficult thing to override.
Having it trigger before death is problematic in terms of picking just the right spot to do it that isn't too early and isn't too late, especially because its likely that this mechanism would have at least a quarter second delay in firing. The game engine doesn't really do "instantly" very well.
Regen player has 2000 Health and 500 negative health. Takes a hit for 2200 HP. Instead of dying right on the spot, the Regen is at -300. The player is laid low (held) until they or another player returns their health to 0 or above.
So you would have time to use your heals that you might not now. -
Quote:My point exactly.Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly
Rationalising these things too far is just silly.
That's what I've been saying, we have to make allowances all the time for the fact that this is a game. Saying that adding resists to a set that already has THREE resist powers would be 'hand-waving' away the rules seems unreasonable to me.Quote:There's a reason the character is called The Incredible Hulk. Because it's not credible.
Perhaps a physical shield will do nothing against a psychic assault, but what if the shield is simply a mental projection or manifestation of your own psychic powers and it can do exactly that? Likewise why should a shield do anything against a fireball if the shield is a tiny buckler on one arm? Just don't even go there.
That's in response to Arcana and Starsman's objections, not to Bunny. -
Quote:The Fire Blaster absorbs all heat in a straight line creating a beam of cold. Comic logic.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
We don't generally handwave away mechanical concepts except where absolutely necessary. Its one thing to hand wave away the scaling resistances, and another to hand wave away, say, adding cold damage to fire blast. Handwaving away scaling resistances in a presumptively regeneration toggle is more the latter than the former. Particularly because it isn't necessary: regeneration already has an association with +health, which offers comparable benefits to +res.
That was an example. Most of the Shields available to players are a piece of metal or wood you hold on your arm. Could that block TK Blast. Sure, I'll buy that. Mind Probe....lol.Quote:Also, the "concept" for shields is not Captain America: that is an exemplar, but not the concept. The concept for shields is shields: their version of what a shield can do. Powerset concepts do not have specific strengths or specific characterization packages associated with them. Reconstruction is not based on a specific ability of Wolverine.
As would thinking of Resistance as "Instant Healing". It's not any more unreasonable. It's just a matter of opinion, not objective fact, whether that's too far outside the concept.Quote:In City of Heroes, there are two kinds of psionic attacks. The first kind has no physicality in the conventional sense. Its typed "psionic_attack" and would pass right through Shield defenses. The other kind has enough physicality to be evaded by defenses that work to either place the target out of the path of the attack or to place an obstacle in the path of the attack, typified by positional defenses. Shields work on the latter and not the former, which is a reasonable concession to the limits of the combat system in the game. -
Quote:Like I said, I thought the SR thing was goofy, but didn't bother me that much. I mean, most of this stuff already strains suspension of disbelief to the breaking point. Willpower and Shield are clearly capable of superhuman feats that break their concept. (E.G. Would Captain America really have any defense against Professor Xavier?)Originally Posted by Starsman
And I dont know Arcanaville, but I HATED those scalling resistances from day one.
To this day I sustain, SR should had been improving by giving it +HP, not resistance. (Would had fit perfectly in Practiced Brawler, too.) You could had even gone with passive scaling +HP, I would not care about the scaling part, just about the resistance part.
But thats an argument for another day.
To use the Queen O' Maths verbiage, we 'hand-wave' away these problems in the interest of making a fun game. -
Quote:See that's much better.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Having said that, here's a completely separate thought related to the first one but falling along a different line.
It's not any goofier than SR's scaling resists. Comic book logic would reign supreme in either case. You would just be sore if the devs implemented something else I wanted.Quote:As to putting scaling resistances in Instant Healing and converting it into a scaling resistance toggle, I think its unlikely but even if it were possible I would be unlikely to support that change. It doesn't so much try to justify using resistance to simulate a regenerative effect as handwave it away completely. 
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My Bane who took the ranged mace attacks. I made her on a lark, found myself at 50 a month later looking for sets!
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If they were going to turn Instant Healing back into a toggle, I would prefer they throw caution (and the cottage rule) to the wind and change it altogether.
Moment of Glory is supposed to represent what would happen if you truly 'instantly healed'. That why while most damage type defense buffs use 'deflected', MoG uses 'absorbed'. I would run with that concept a bit.
I might change Instant Healing to a scaling resistance buff something like:
1st target in range - Scale 1 resist to all but Psi
+
1st through 10th targets - Scale .25 resistance to all but Psi
Thus you're truly 'Instantly Healing' some of the damage. If you wanted to do the Energize cheat around the cottage rule, you could give Instant Healing 100% Regen to go along with the scaling buff and lower the initial target resistance to Scale .75 or .5.
This seems to deal with Arcanaville's concern about the scalability of the set between Tankers and Brutes/Scrappers/Stalkers. It also doesn't provide Regen a ridiculous solo advantage, like old school IH toggle would. Finally, it gives Regen the ability to layer protections like most other sets do. -
Quote:Nope. By scattering those few mobs, you've made it harder for the Tanker/Brute/Scrapper to take aggro from you. This is not theorycraft. I actually do have two KB heavy characters a Peacebringer and a Energy Blaster. I'm also pretty crazy a player so I've seen how using both Explosive Blast and Fireball work in a spawn. Using the Fireball, makes the melee focused NPCs head right toward you. Running behind the tank allows him or her to snatch them up. The ranged focused NPCs just start shooting, but they stay in formation (Except those damnable Longbow Eagles), allowing for follow-on AoE retaliation by your team.Originally Posted by McNum
Yes, because Explosive Blast would knock back some of the enemies, causing the retaliation to be staggered and delayed, allowing the teammates to get their attacks off before the enemies get a chance to fire back.
Thus, tossing in Explosive Blast as an opener, while still not a good idea, is still a better option than Fireball. I'd suggest Energy Torrent, though. Easier to aim, and more reliable knockback. Or Power Burst on a Boss, but you need to get closer to do that, and by that time, the rest of the team should already have taken a shot.
I also expected that reply.
I don't think most people care about single-target KB. It's AoE scatter that bothers most folks. But question, does it help YOU to have your tank not have her or his status effect protection on? Does that not hurt the chances of success for the team?Quote:For all the Melee types, I'd pick their status protection. Not because it annoys me, but if they want to take my Force Bolt away, they lose their most precious power, too.
I don't necessarily think that's comparable to asking the Peacebringer to not use Solar Flare. -
Quote:I can see how they could do what the OP is asking for. But, I can't see them doing it.Originally Posted by Exclius
In addendum: If it's something the devs simply can't do due to the game engine, that's understandable.
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Quote:Which power?Originally Posted by McNum
If I have to turn off my knockback, I get to pick a power YOU can't use while you're teamed with me. Deal? Thought not.
So for example, which powers would you ask your teammates in this team not to use:
1. You
2. Will/Dual Blades Tanker
3. Kin/Energy Scrapper
4. Plant/Psi Dominator
5. Illusion/FF Controller
6. Cold/Ice Defender
7. Fire/Pain Corruptor
8. SS/Regen Brute
I actually have each of these characters so I'm curious. I might even agree with you. -
Quote:I expected that answer. Next question. Is that any different than if you used Explosive Blast in the same situation?Originally Posted by McNum
When the Blaster first tosses a Fireball at an 8 man +3 spawn before anyone else gets aggro. That would be an improper use of Fireball. Especially if the enemies retaliate with AoEs and you're standing in the middle of the team.
See, getting more aggro than you can handle is a problem for all characters. KB is not. Personally, if Explosive Blast wasn't a proc and instead a guaranteed chance, it would be better. -
Quote:Again, a whole paragraph, responding to something I didn't say. All I said, is that I could tank with it. Would it be balanced as you've defined it here? I don't know. Don't care either. All I said is I could tank with it.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I could tank with that as well. I can also tank with my SR scrapper at 25, with some difficulty. But for me, the question is not whether Regen would be a "good" or "bad" tanker. Those are subjective labels. The question is whether Regen would exist within the nominal range of performance considered reasonable for a new tanker powerset if a new tanker powerset was being constructed from scratch. If it is, it is. If it is not, then just because its a pre-existing set, doesn't exempt it from the same reasonable boundary conditions a new powerset would be expected to follow.
Meanie!
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Quote:No, the -KB IO just doesn't work. There are other means to accomplish the same result, but the devs choose not to do them because of the social and balance implications.Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
I think you've been around long enough to know that when the devs say "we tried," it means it would have taken more work to be feasible than they were willing to invest, not "it's impossible but we were definitely going to add it if that weren't the case."
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Quote:That's always OK with the devs. Eliminating drawbacks by teaming is intended behavior. See Stone Tanks and Kinetics.Originally Posted by Dispari
I used to think certain powers were designed with KB in mind as a balancing factor to keep them from being too powerful. And I think the devs still subscribe to this. The problem is KB can already be turned off simply by having someone with immobilizes on the team. And honestly, if you halved (or more) the KD proc rate I'm sure people will still be more excited to have powers like Solar Flare and Hand Clap in their builds than they are right now.
Absolutely agree.Quote:The only AoE knockback power I like is Nova and only because it'll kill most of the badguys anyway. ST knockback is okay because they're more controlled and less wild. AoE knockbacks are stupid unless they're 100% rate because they cause severe scatter. And PBAoE knockbacks are the worst thing outside of cage powers. -
Quote:Actually, they just couldn't get them to work. They tried.Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
The devs are not going to add -KB enhancers because it's such an amazingly niche concept that it couldn't possibly be worth their time to do so when the vast majority of players are not complaining about this "problem" in the first place.
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Quote:No, not an opinion. It's not really rocket science to "Aim at Wall", "Use Hover", "Position yourself to one side of a spawn". This isn't revealed truth.Originally Posted by MikeRobe
In your opinion. That's the problem here.... you're (seeming) religiously anti-kb as much as I was appearing religiously pro. It gets people shouting past one another and not discussing solutions. "It sux!" "It rox!" doesn't accomplish anything in this discussion.
Question for you. When, if ever, does a person using Fireball have to 'learn to use it'? -
Quote:Do know how to use it. It's still not effective.Originally Posted by MikeRobe
I think people should learn how to use it before poo-pooing it.
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Quote:What set are you looking at?Originally Posted by MikeRobe
So let's get this straight re. SS:
Of the 9 powers in the set 4 have no kb
Only 2 of those 4 are attacks
Jab and KO blow - which (KO) has a knockup and hold in it.
The other 2 powers are Rage and taunt
ALL other powers in SS have Knockback in 'em. Whether people think handclap sucks or hurl sucks or haymaker or punch for that matter is irrelevant. The set has a ton of KB in it.
Jab - Stun
Punch - KnockDOWN
Haymaker - KnockDOWN
Taunt - Taunt
Hand Clap - KnockBack
Knockout Blow - KnockUP
Rage - Buff
Hurl - KnockBack
Footstomp - KnockDOWN
I'm seeing two powers with KB. The same two everyone skips. -
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.952
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Level 25 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Regeneration
Secondary Power Set: Energy Melee
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fighting
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Fast Healing -- Heal(A), Heal(3), Heal(3)
Level 1: Energy Punch -- Acc(A), Dmg(23), Dmg(23)
Level 2: Reconstruction -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(7)Heal(7), Heal(15),
Level 4: Bone Smasher -- Acc(A), Dmg(5), Dmg(5)
Level 6: Fly -- Fly(A)
Level 8: Integration -- Heal(A), Heal(9), Heal(9)
Level 10: Dull Pain -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(11), RechRdx(11), Heal(13), Heal(13)
Level 12: Quick Recovery -- EndMod(A), EndMod(15)
Level 14: Taunt -- Taunt(A)
Level 16: Whirling Hands -- Acc(A), Dmg(17), Dmg(17)
Level 18: Resilience -- ResDam(A)ResDam(19), ResDam(19)
Level 20: Instant Healing -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(21), RechRdx(21)
Level 22: Boxing -- Acc(A)
Level 24: Tough -- ResDam(A), ResDam(25), ResDam(25)
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Level 2: Swift -- Run(A)
Level 2: Health -- Heal(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod(A),
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc(A)
Level 1: Fury
Level 1: Sprint -- Run(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I could tank with that at level 25. That gives me about 43% Sm, Le resist, 40% Toxic, and 19.5 to everything else. Dull Pain is down for 64 secs, that's a bummer. Recon is there for me every 36 seconds.
Probably not as good or about even with a Fire Tanker at that level, but I could tank with it. -
Quote:Knockout blow is KnockUp.Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
As someone else pointed out, SS has three powers that apply high mag KB, but thanks for the insult!
Hurl and Hand Clap are considered the must skips of the set. -
Quote:Actually KB complaints have been going on for all those 7 and a half years. It hardly matters whether this is done or not. The devs want Fire Blast to continue to dwarf Energy, SoA to continue to make Peacebringers look like the joke that they are, that's cool with me.Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
How exactly is Sailboat the one who's wildly out of line when all he's arguing for is the status quo? Doesn't the burden of proof lie on those who want to completely change how the game has worked for seven and a half years? Knockback is in the game. Deal with it. You have been dealing with it for up to seven and a half years, why is it suddenly too much for you now?
I know how to use KB and like it quite a bit. But it's one of the most inefficient forms of mitigation in the game and is IMO, one of the worst secondary effects you can saddle a power with. That's not bias, I'm not happy about that. I've argued to the devs that KB should have an advantage attached to it, like smashing damage or something. When they buffed Energy Assault for Dominators they actually did this to Power Push. Let's say that Energy Blast's KB procs also gave additional Smashing damage when they caused KB. Then having a choice between KB and KD isn't so clear. It creates a valid choice.
The OP and those disagreeing are right. If there is a choice given to turn off KB, that's not a choice. It's a requirement for anyone who cares about being able to play at their best. That's the real tragedy of KB. If its proponents would simply accept that it's not this great thing they think it is, we might be able to get some real changes that both address the legitimate concerns of the anti-KB folks and make KB users more valued.