EvilGeko

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My constructive post is...

Make all these power nerfs PVP only...

if they are so crucial to PVP let us who build a regen scrapper have it the way we did... that or let us choose a new powerset on respec... by nerfing someone who has a 28 toon like myself and even higher, you are hurting the community by making it so much of a nerf... I don't PVP so I am stuck with something that gimps me PVE and I am not entirely happy with that...

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Statesman has already stated that the powers were changed either because of PvE concerns, or PvP AND PvE concerns. Not just because of PvP.

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Yeah, we know. We just don't believe him. Doesn't fit the available facts. See if it was for PvE in any way, then there would have been some movement like there was in I2. Because you see, these changes do negatively impact Regens in large group play. Also, as Regens explained and as was proven, there are other sets that can do everything Regen does in PvE, but better. But there is one place where Regen simply could not be beat. PvP.

As we also explained, we fully knew that I3 Regen would be next to unstoppable in PvP. I for one couldn't come up with an attack chain that exists in the game that could consistently kill a Regen. So the change had to stay, no matter its PvE effect.

Statesman is no longer entitled to blind faith from me. I still think he's a swell guy, but he has a very Obi-Wan Kenobi "Many of the truths we cling to are greatly dependent upon our own point of view" view of the truth. So I filter everything he says for literal truth. On that score he hasn't lied, he's just misled people into thinking that PvE was a major justification for these changes.

All Statesman said is that he wouldn't change a set for PvP ONLY. He never said he wouldn't change a set for 99% PvP reasons and 1% PvE reasons. I think Regen was principally changed because of PvP, because that makes the most sense given the available facts. Sure they had some concern about PvE, but if that were even nearly as important, then there would be a lot more sets that got nerfs in I4.

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So, if they changes really *WERE* only for PvP, then why didn't they make them PvP only? It's pretty darn obvious they can make changes to a power in PvP without effecting it in PvE play (Such as the fact that Brawl can knock out a toggle only in PvP play).

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Then explain to me why Statesman would post this:

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I’ve been reading through this enormous thread, gathering hard data to compare it to our internal testing. I have collated the common complaints about the Regeneration changes and I noted possible other ideas (such as a cap) to accomplish the same goals. Some of the common issues:

1. Regen Scrappers can be alpha striked (struck?)
2. Large teams mean large spawns which lead to defeated Regen Scrappers 
3. Levels 40+ are drastically more difficult than 30-39
4. Other Archetype and Scrapper defensive sets can solo AV’s, etc.

Currently, most data suggests that Regen Scrappers handily survive missions set even at the toughest levels (Arch Villains and Elite Bosses put aside). This is of enormous concern to me; I’d like players to be able to go onto missions and have fun. Part of fun is risk – and where there’s no risk, there’s no fun. I am worried that missions are just trivial compare to the fun that can be had out on the streets. In other words, players can search out mobs of the highest level they’d like in our zones. Missions, however, are locked into a certain range. And I’m afraid that the range isn’t broad enough to accommodate the abilities of a Regen Scrapper.

There’s also the issue of PvP. We’d like to avoid touching powers as much as possible because of PvP imbalances. This is mainly because a good many people don’t PvP and don’t plan to; we’d like to avoid affecting their game experience. Sometimes, however, there it is inevitable because there’s not another way to get balance.

I’d like to thank players such as Heroic, Amberyl, Alyssa, frank4, UberGuy, kiteless, Narfmann, Havoc and all the others who made great analytical posts with numbers and play experience. These posts really help me form an idea of playstyles, expectations and perceptions. Frequently, people wonder if I play the same game as the “players.” To be honest, I probably don’t. I see the game as a designer and developer; it’s almost impossible to turn that off. These forums (and anonymously teaming up with players) help me understand how the game is actually played by others (as opposed to how it’s “supposed” to happen).

One thing that rereading this thread has done is underscore the importance of communication. It would have been nice if we posted our explanation of the changes at the same time as the patch went to the Training Server. That was an oversight on my part, to be honest. I need to be more vigilant about power changes and make sure we let everyone know at least the reasons behind something. It was a couple of days before Geko made his informative post behind the changes – and quantified them better.


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Posted here.

Note the bold. It would seem that sometimes they aren't able to balance powers for just PvP. And reactive powers like Regen are perfect for that. Remember these balance changes are going forward to CoV. How the heck does Instant Healing know a player attacked the character? It doesn't. It heals all damage. Sure the Arena might be able to debuff a player, but that won't help when we get to CoV.

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My constructive post is...

Make all these power nerfs PVP only...

if they are so crucial to PVP let us who build a regen scrapper have it the way we did... that or let us choose a new powerset on respec... by nerfing someone who has a 28 toon like myself and even higher, you are hurting the community by making it so much of a nerf... I don't PVP so I am stuck with something that gimps me PVE and I am not entirely happy with that...

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Statesman has already stated that the powers were changed either because of PvE concerns, or PvP AND PvE concerns. Not just because of PvP.

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Yeah, we know. We just don't believe him. Doesn't fit the available facts. See if it was for PvE in any way, then there would have been some movement like there was in I2. Because you see, these changes do negatively impact Regens in large group play. Also, as Regens explained and as was proven, there are other sets that can do everything Regen does in PvE, but better. But there is one place where Regen simply could not be beat. PvP.

As we also explained, we fully knew that I3 Regen would be next to unstoppable in PvP. I for one couldn't come up with an attack chain that exists in the game that could consistently kill a Regen. So the change had to stay, no matter its PvE effect.

Statesman is no longer entitled to blind faith from me. I still think he's a swell guy, but he has a very Obi-Wan Kenobi "Many of the truths we cling to are greatly dependent upon our own point of view" view of the truth. So I filter everything he says for literal truth. On that score he hasn't lied, he's just misled people into thinking that PvE was a major justification for these changes.

All Statesman said is that he wouldn't change a set for PvP ONLY. He never said he wouldn't change a set for 99% PvP reasons and 1% PvE reasons. I think Regen was principally changed because of PvP, because that makes the most sense given the available facts. Sure they had some concern about PvE, but if that were even nearly as important, then there would be a lot more sets that got nerfs in I4.

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Some people are more docile than others. On the other hand, some people grow up and become revolutionaries, protestors, and radicals. Those people were taught (rightly) to question authority. And those people will speak loudly and tersely when it's justified. And the docile ones will think the loud ones are being immature.

And the authority under question can respond to protest in a number of ways. How Cryptic responds to the community, even when the community is rioting, is up to them. But don't cause the riot and then act all offended that you got one.

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And yet there is a difference to protesting against a great injustice or starting a revolution against social intolerances, and sitting on a message board posting things like "OMG! YOU SUCK BECAUSE YOU NERFED SMOKE GRENADE! STATESMAN IS A LIAR AND A THIEF! CRYPTIC NERFED MY BABY! I'M QUITTING FOR WOW IF YOU DON'T ALLOW ME TO CHANGE MY EYECOLOR TO PEUCE!!!!!111"

People are not being asked not to voice their displeasure. Their being asked to voice their displeasure in a calm, rational manner.

Or, in case you need another example:

Your being asked to conduct yourself like Martin Luther King and Rosa Parks, not like Timothy McVeigh or Osama Bin Laden.

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Lazy argument. George Washington and the other founders used violence to protest his displeasure with England's tyranny. Revolutionaries throughout history have done the same. What does this have to do with a message board? Nothing.

The developers are entitled to respect, but the level of respect must be earned. When the devs do and say things which are clearly illogical and contemptuous of our intelligence, then they deserve the grief that they get.

We either were lied to, or the devs were incompentent regarding the Regen changes. We were not listened to with regard to those changes. So many of us posted detailed findings with alternatives that led to the same result only in a more fair fashion. We were ignored.

They can post and say that they listen all they want to. I believe actions not pretty words.

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Agreed.

We should try NEVER to change a power because of PvP alone (BTW, this is what I've always promised). The changes now aren't solely because of PvP - there's signifcant PvE issues, too.

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How can we believe that when:

1. SJ/SS have worked this way since launch and yet only now is it so much of a problem that it had to be fixed.

2. Disciplines were given nearly double duration because of the problems squishes had with mez, but only NOW are they being replaced with break frees that have a substantially lower duration which has the curious effect of making mez effects viable in PvP.

3. MoG and Elude getting changed although many regens and SR players don't respec out of all their other powers, unlike Unstoppable, but DO take on all comers in PvP.

etc.

The evidence just doesn't make your statements appear true.

States sorry to do it, but I got to use your own words against you. If you're going to halve debt, then it should be across the board. The ability to do missions solo varies by AT. Street sweeping was supposed to be there for the people who have problems soloing missions. It's supposed to give them something to do. Now you want to punish that behavior.

You said:

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I've stated before - I don't want FORCED grouping.

All Archetypes CAN solo. Some do it slowly, some do it quickly. Some can solo most missions, some can solo fewer missions. And worse comes to worse - a hero can always hunt the streets and stop some crime there. That was always the intent of city zones.


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Your post

Has this changed? What this is going to do is further widen the solo gap among the ATs. It seems to run contrary to your stated goals. Perhaps those goals have changed.

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You never need to get debt to keep contacts. Just don't train to level 10 (or 21, 26, etc) The contacts are based on your security level.

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I wish that were true. I tried it, once, and it didn't work. Outleveled my War Wall Defender badge contact. Apparently, it is based on combat level, not trained level. So, back to the debt sprees for me.

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You must have trained too far then. Because you outlevel no contacts if you keep your security level low enough. In fact, your contacts will start giving you other contacts of their level range to move you along.

My peacebringers did just about every contact in King's Row and Atlas for instance. I was still getting "Kill 10 Hellion" missions at combat level 12.

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I for one remember getting debt on purpose at levels 4-9 just to be able to get all the mission badges/souves.
this is going to make it much harder.
anyway, imo upto like level 30 debt is pretty meanigless since the levels go so fast... but I guess different players have different play styles, seems to me that if the lowbie door missions in the hollows will no longer be in the red zones players will get much less debt, oh well.

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You never need to get debt to keep contacts. Just don't train to level 10 (or 21, 26, etc) The contacts are based on your security level.

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I'm not a big fan of the first. I can understand for five levels when people are still getting used to the game, but by L6 I don't see the need for no-risk gaming. Especially given your affirmation of not wanting reward without risk.

The second...eh. There is really very little risk already, decreasing it just seems to be more least-common denominator stuff and I'd prefer you head the other direction.

Scorus

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I would bet the first is to deal with the Hollows and Perez Park "courage runs" where you run through +5-6 level purples to get to your level 7 mission door.

Statesman, I posted awhile back that Rest should have its recharge reduced to 1 minute. That would do more to take away the early pain and make PL not so attractive. Please consider why you feel the lowers levels should have so much downtime.

The no debt till ten thing is nice, but all it will do is make those crazy "nerves of steel" walks in the Hollows missions bearable.

As for the 1/2 debt on missions, that's nice.

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Someone wasn't paying attention. My main's a 39 claws/regen. So nyah.

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You misunderstand. Obviously writing this you are a houseScrapper. Sychophants must die.

This belongs in the guide forum.

Good post BTW. Of course because you refer to your betters as nothing more than mere animals, we shall have to kill you in the Arena multiple times for your insolence.

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Skills, kickass content, badge hunting, and gameplay are a means to keep it going. And even then they made it so badge accolades aren't overpowering in pve or pvp.


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Only kickbutt content WITH equally kickbutt rewards will have any effect in whether I stick with CoH.

Badges are the worst thing they ever added to CoH. I only do them for the accolades. Statesman likes to say that he doesn't want to reward boring behavior, well I wonder if he thinks I had fun hunting level 14 Clockwork bosses in my 40s to finish up an accolade. The other badges are just silly. A little graphic and a bit of text. I seriously can't see why high level people put up with it.

The skills system is not here yet so I'm not sure what that will do for the game. My sense is not much. Without items, there's really only so many rewards. Perhaps skills will lead to specialized powers and such. If so that could be cool. We'll see.

Loot like many other things can be done well or it can be done poorly. The question is whether the developers allow themselves to fall down the slippery slope of having to create ever greater loot to keep people playing. I don't think they need to, but they need to create a way to improve your character post - 50 besides HOs. Because so long as that's the only way, you can bet the old boy will be farmed to oblivion.

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Someone willing to put up with that level of farming should have an edge.

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Why is paying a monthly fee to torture yourself supposed to be an activity worth admiring. Why do unfun activities need to be rewarded in a GAME? Words like "put up with" & "farming" do not indicate fun to me. The only fun people get out of it beyond socialization with their raid group is stroking their ego later on when they get to "pwn n00bs".

To the lawyer, you are about the first pro-HO proponent I give any respect to in 60+ pages of lame "I gots em and you don't" arguments from kids living in mom's basement.

Tell me this though, how many of those 9 HOs can you actually use? How long do you estimate it will take you on your current play schedule to get the other 31 or so you probably want to slot? (I base that 40 number on power slots that people actually care about like primary, secondary, and pool.)

I am an engineer with a wife who is not in the best of health that I spend a lot of time taking care of and not only do I resent the TIME I have to spend to farm hami to compete in PVP but the QUALITY of the entertainment I'm paying for if I were to do so. I don't really see Hami as an open raid either since every Hami raid I have heard of has taken advance planning and scheduling of 20+ people. This is just not what entertainment should be and I say that from the perspective of someone who has done the mega raid thing over at least 10 more MUDs/MMOs than probably anyone reading this post. Raids I can enjoy in some games where there is actually enough varied raid+quest content to make it interesting and NO pvp (such as EQ2, where raids are not that hard to organize, mainly because you can succeed with a much wider variety of tactics than you can vs. Hami, not to mention they have raids for less people.) but in this game it is definitely dividing the playerbase into two seperate camps.

It is a dead horse but I will resurrect it here for the record:

Many, many players who were sick of item-centric MMOs made this their game, and a big part of choosing CoH was getting away from all that garbage. This is going to burn a lot of them.

Don't even kid yourself and think they are "lazy" or "cowards" or "noobs" or whatever label strokes your ego. They just choose not to participate in the same mindless MMO treadmill madness they've seen in 13421434365346 games before this. one. I almost want to start the "Disillusioned MMO Vets" supergroup (Slogan: "The DMV is Hell on Earth" ) and kill Hami everytime he spawns now but:

1. You'd all continue to miss the point.

2. More importantly, the MMO industry would continue to miss the point.

3. It's a boring raid.

4. Organizing people quickly turns into work instead of fun.

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I want to respond to this in pieces.

First, I never said farming should be admired. I don't think ANYTHING in a video game should be admired. I admired my baby son when he learn to grab and play with his daddy's lip last week, I don't care what people do in this game, it earns them no special admiration from me.

Now as to "fun". Well that's the most subjective term in the world. Some people actually enjoy herding. I don't. I'll admit I let my principles lapse a bit on the final push to 50, but I didn't enjoy it.

Second as to my 9 HOs (ten now, I did a raid this evening ). I can use them ALL! I wasn't counting the lame debuff ones I sold for cash. I've done about 15-16 raids. Usually just by staying logged in at the Hive. I play my alt listen to the global chat channel devoted to Justice raids and when the call goes out, I log on my main.

Like some others have stated, I really do enjoy the raids. Not so much for the fight, which is rote. But more because you get to meet new people, you always see a brand new level 50 eager to start getting into the raid. That's really fun to see. People joke and argue and its like a big party. And a lot more fun one than the lame nerfed Paragon Dance Party!

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I am an engineer with a wife who is not in the best of health that I spend a lot of time taking care of and not only do I resent the TIME I have to spend to farm hami to compete in PVP but the QUALITY of the entertainment I'm paying for if I were to do so. I don't really see Hami as an open raid either since every Hami raid I have heard of has taken advance planning and scheduling of 20+ people. This is just not what entertainment should be and I say that from the perspective of someone who has done the mega raid thing over at least 10 more MUDs/MMOs than probably anyone reading this post. Raids I can enjoy in some games where there is actually enough varied raid+quest content to make it interesting and NO pvp (such as EQ2, where raids are not that hard to organize, mainly because you can succeed with a much wider variety of tactics than you can vs. Hami, not to mention they have raids for less people.) but in this game it is definitely dividing the playerbase into two seperate camps.


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My best wishes for your wife's speedy recovery. I'm truly sorry to hear that. I agree with you by the way about dividing the playerbase. I wish they would give HO level enhancers for completion of trial, task forces and story arcs. That would make them available to all. I wish they would let people construct them, but I guess people hate tradeskills even worse than loot farming. I don't support having these enhancers come from only one encounter. But the fact remains that they do. I don't think the fix is to deny their use in PvP to those who can do the raids. I'm sorry, but that just doesn't seem fair to me.

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Many, many players who were sick of item-centric MMOs made this their game, and a big part of choosing CoH was getting away from all that garbage. This is going to burn a lot of them.

Don't even kid yourself and think they are "lazy" or "cowards" or "noobs" or whatever label strokes your ego. They just choose not to participate in the same mindless MMO treadmill madness they've seen in 13421434365346 games before this. one. I almost want to start the "Disillusioned MMO Vets" supergroup (Slogan: "The DMV is Hell on Earth" ) and kill Hami everytime he spawns now but:

1. You'd all continue to miss the point.

2. More importantly, the MMO industry would continue to miss the point.

3. It's a boring raid.

4. Organizing people quickly turns into work instead of fun.

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The thing about MMOs is that the reasons for things like loot and tradeskills and other such nonsense is that you need that stuff to sustain a game. I don't care how much content they add, developers will never get the majority of people to play more than 1-2 characters to the level cap. Thus there has to be something to do when you get there. In ALL MMOs I'm aware of that's farm loot. It's the additional carrot that keeps us playing. It's working for me. After I finished a couple of story arcs there will be nothing more for my main. I can probably level an alt to 50, but after that, I really don't see myself getting another character to 50. Only so many times you can play through the same content.

I know how much it sucks to be a casual gamer who can't keep up with kids who have much more time to play than you. I also play EQ2, EQOA, and WoW. I can't keep up with the kids in those games. They will always be better than I am because of their gear. I accept that. I have real, tangible things in my life to be proud of. As an engineer and husband so do you. I personally admire you much, much more for taking care of your wife. Even if you were the all-server champ of CoH, I would admire you more for taking care of your family.

In these MMOs, people play for a lot of different reason. I play to escape into another world that doesn't include judges and depositions and motions. I think a lot of people play to find some success that's missing in their real life.

Whatever the reason, you have to keep this stuff in perspective. I really wish they had never added PvP to CoH, because it brings out the worse in the player base. But now that they have, I think that people who play a lot and have more and better enhancers have a right to the spoils of their labor.

Remember its not their fault that Hami-Os are in the game. The developers put them there and based on Statesman's post, it seem like he's ok with the edge they give.

Well this reply has run on too long and I think I made my point.

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I'm 31, an attorney, a parent and I have ten HOs, mostly earned at Justice's 9 pm public raid.

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And apparently missed my point, which is that restricting the ranking lists to fights with HOs enabled will give a huge advantage to those people that have the free time to farm Hamidon again and again.

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You missed my point. I don't have a lot of free time (outside of work, things are slow at work right now). I have responsibilities to my family and my profession. I only get to play about two-three times a week except when I'm on vacation. I still managed to get some HOs. It's really not that hard. I choose not to make excuses for why I can't get HOs and just get them. It's just not that hard. I don't understand why people keep acting like Hami raids are like other MMOs where you have to be in a raiding guild where you have to have a perfect build and devote 12 hours to a raid.

In CoH you have to devote 2 hours to a raid, are all but assured of getting a reward if you contribute (sometimes even if you don't), and it's open to everyone. If you can't do that, where are you going to find time to do much PvPing anyway?

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No, it's just, well... boring. I mean, the first time, maybe even the fifth time, it's fun! You're there, you're helping half the 50s on the server take down the jello mold of doom, you're hearing your computer groan under the strain, and when it's all over, you get a shiny new HO. I don't really have a huge issue with the guys that have enough HOs to slot out a power. So, they get one truly nasty first shot with their power. That's painful, but not overwhelming.

It's the guys with a whole screen of them that are a major porblem. Someone who slots all of their powers with dam/acc means that an Ice tanker or force field def/controller is completely useless against them. Even SR scrappers are left out in the cold, unless they've six slotted all their defenses AND they have HOs in all of them. One of the rarest HOs, I might add. Someone that goes half dam/acc and half dam/range can sit almost out of visual range and plink a close-in character to death while still being at 400% damage constantly. If they're fighting an ice tanker, it's not a plinking, either, it's a full out assault.

A few HOs for a character are a badge of pride, and something that good tactics can get around. A screen full is like playing on a whole other plane. Not only are your attacks more effective, but you can afford more slots for the attacks you might not have slotted, because powers like hasten, resistance defense, etc. can be capped out early. Any defense-based characters are toast against you, and that's even IF they're slotted up with HOs. Tell me again, how is it balanced if a full set of enhancements renders a character's primary or secondary worthless, even if they also have a full set?

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Fair point, but honestly getting a full set of HOs, especially dmg/acc * 6 takes a LONG time. (former bud griefers excluded) Someone willing to put up with that level of farming should have an edge. Just my opinion.

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You missed my point. I don't have a lot of free time (outside of work, things are slow at work right now). I have responsibilities to my family and my profession. I only get to play about two-three times a week except when I'm on vacation. I still managed to get some HOs.

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Actually, you missed his point.

He indicated that those with restricted schedules are at a *disadvantage* if PvP is tied to a raid. He didn't say it was *impossible* to get HOs on a restricted schedule.

Raids (even 2 hour raids) can be difficult to swing if you are scheduling the game around work. What about the folks who log in at goofy off-hours? What about the folks who've made it to 50 in 1 hour chunks? And remember, we're talking about doing a whole bunch of raids, not just one or two.

You can make it to 50 in large groups or solo, in 12 hours chunks or 1 hour chunks, doing TFs or not, doing Missions or not, Farming or not, and so on - this is about as 'doable' as a casual player can hope for.

After 50 its large groups only, 2+ hour chunks only, raid only - how can that *not* restrict who gets to easily advance past 50? And, if HOs are freely allowed in PvP, it will also restrict who can easily gain an advantage in the Arena.

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This is an MMO. At some point, it can only be so fair to those who can only play in small chunks. Really someone with the play time you indicate won't be in competition with the hardcore much. All we can do is ensure that most gamers have a reasonalbe chance. We can't ensure that everyone does.

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I'm 31, an attorney, a parent and I have ten HOs, mostly earned at Justice's 9 pm public raid.

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And apparently missed my point, which is that restricting the ranking lists to fights with HOs enabled will give a huge advantage to those people that have the free time to farm Hamidon again and again.

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You missed my point. I don't have a lot of free time (outside of work, things are slow at work right now). I have responsibilities to my family and my profession. I only get to play about two-three times a week except when I'm on vacation. I still managed to get some HOs. It's really not that hard. I choose not to make excuses for why I can't get HOs and just get them. It's just not that hard. I don't understand why people keep acting like Hami raids are like other MMOs where you have to be in a raiding guild where you have to have a perfect build and devote 12 hours to a raid.

In CoH you have to devote 2 hours to a raid, are all but assured of getting a reward if you contribute (sometimes even if you don't), and it's open to everyone. If you can't do that, where are you going to find time to do much PvPing anyway?

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Sure, but HOs don't really do that. With the unresistable criticals, I can one-two shot Blasters anyway. In fact HOs make PvP HARDER for me, not easier.

With no HOs, most Blasters can't overcome my healing rate. Some can, and a whole lot more can with HOs. I say bring it on, the risk makes it fun.

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You say all that like you'd actually ever played a bout of PvP in CoH.

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I respect and disagree with your opinion. Arguing with you has no further point since neither of us will change our opinion. Thus I will demur on responding to the substance of your post.

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I play a Regen Scrapper and I am VERY susceptible to being one or two shotted by naughty Blasters fully slotted with HOs.

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You forgot to mention that blasters will be *very* susceptible to being one shot by your HO'd Headsplitter. I am sure that everyone is crying about the lack of viability of regen scrappers in PvP.

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Sure, but HOs don't really do that. With the unresistable criticals, I can one-two shot Blasters anyway. In fact HOs make PvP HARDER for me, not easier.

With no HOs, most Blasters can't overcome my healing rate. Some can, and a whole lot more can with HOs. I say bring it on, the risk makes it fun.

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That's cool so long as you can't earn any rankings or badges in such matches. If you want the reward fight your real opponent, not an artificially debuffed one.


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Why not just put an age restriction on being ranked? Anyone beyond college age, those who can be reasonably expected to have a job, are inelligible from being ranked in PvP. Of course, you could file for an exemption, say being independently wealthy or unemployable, but this rule would accomplish your goals.

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I'm 31, an attorney, a parent and I have ten HOs, mostly earned at Justice's 9 pm public raid. So your analogy doesn't really fit the available facts.

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Bottom line is this. I'm willing to fight you with or without HOs active. You're only willing to fight me with HOs active. Conclusion: you're scared to lose.


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Whatever. Now you're making stuff up. What are you arguing for if you don't care if I have HOs or not? I'll fight you with no HOs, but in an official tournament, you better darn well believe I want every advantage I've EARNED! That's not cowardice. That's reward for the work I've put in.

I'm not changing my opinion and after your hundreds of posts, you aren't either. So whatever. However it works, I'll see you there.

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You just want to manage your risk down to zero so you can live out your superhero fantasies in another venue.

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Who is insisting on reduced risk? A person who wants to face another on a basis of pure skill, or a person who insists on keeping a non skill based numerical boost to his abilities at all times?

If you're so keen on risk and challenge, come out from behind your HOs and face an opponent whose actions you can't predict.

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I'm not the one arguing for a handicap. I'll take on anyone, with any selection of powers and any slotting. If I lose, I lose. I'm not trying to make some mythical "even" playing field.

You can try to turn that argument around, but the fact remains is that you gals and guys don't want to lose. You think that your skills are so great that ONLY if they would not have these HOs, I could win. Well, you can't. The truth is people like you who look for excuses have already lost. By playing PvP on easy mode, you will never develop the skills necessary to deal with different situations. I play a Regen Scrapper and I am VERY susceptible to being one or two shotted by naughty Blasters fully slotted with HOs. I don't care. That's the fight I want.

MMOs are not twitch-fests. You take on the choices, experience, powers AND equipment of your opponents. That's what gives it more risk than PvE and more fun. I don't have any problem with agreed restrictions, but they have no place in an official tournament or in giving awards.

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hat's cool so long as you can't earn any rankings or badges in such matches. If you want the reward fight your real opponent, not an artificially debuffed one.

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This is [censored]. So you think that only those who grind out Hamidon Origins in a boring slide show should be topped ranked and everybody else should just wallow in suckitude?

Sorry, no [censored] way.

Skill should matter in the arena, not byproduct of masocistic raiding tendencies.

If your idea was the case the Devs would essentially be forcing people to engage in that big [censored] waste of time (Hamidon), or suffer the consequences in the arena.

Sorry, thats really stupid.

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Well, if you read Statesman's post, for now, that's how its going to be.

I don't think rank matches should have ANY restrictions whatsoever. Not just HOs.

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1. A no-HO option for PvP, and


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That's cool so long as you can't earn any rankings or badges in such matches. If you want the reward fight your real opponent, not an artificially debuffed one.

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If you want the reward, fight your real opponent, not an artificially buffed one.

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2. Knowledge of the no. of HO's the opponents have.


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No. PvP is fun because you just can't manage all risk like you can in PvE. In fact, it would be better if you had NO access to your opponent's info other than what you observe.

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Why?

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1. It's not an artificial buff. An artificial buff is a hack or something external to the game. Like the auto-targeting programs in FPS.

If you're too lazy to join in on the Hami-fun then you shouldn't complain when you lose.

2. Why you ask? That's what's fun to ME! I realize that's subjective and so my opinion carries no greater weight than any else's. However, my idea also doesn't involve being a coward and refusing to fight someone because I might lose.

I don't even know why you guys want to play in the Arena. You aren't looking for challenge. You just want to manage your risk down to zero so you can live out your superhero fantasies in another venue. You got the Heroic level missions for that.

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1. A no-HO option for PvP, and


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That's cool so long as you can't earn any rankings or badges in such matches. If you want the reward fight your real opponent, not an artificially debuffed one.

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2. Knowledge of the no. of HO's the opponents have.


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No. PvP is fun because you just can't manage all risk like you can in PvE. In fact, it would be better if you had NO access to your opponent's info other than what you observe.

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As a side note; got 4 HOs in Headsplitter. I walked up to a level 50 Carnie, hit BU and critted.

Damage - 810 x 2! I want to share one more thing:

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Scrapper Critical Hits cannot be resisted.


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See you in the arena!

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Exactly Booster - Farming Portals for XP, Farming Wolves for XP, Farming Winterlords for XP, Farming Hami for Enhancements - all fit States' definition of "unfun". There has to/should be a change forthcoming.

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Except fighting Hami is VERY fun. Much more fun than the 638th "kill all in warehouse" mission. Feels like something epic is going on. I need to hurry up and get these two levels so I can join the raiding without the max debt scare.

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Heck - knocking off Hami for the first time should be great fun. And there are many that would say that farming wolves is a blast too, and that the winterlords ended too soo. Fun is subjective. However, when the reason for arresting Hami changes from "for the thrill of it" to "Hami-O's 4 teh winZorZ" it falls into States' definition of an "unfun" activity.

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Like I said the same thing can be said for the missions. After awhile, you just get tired of saving [insert random NPC] that the [insert villain group] decided to kidnap and kill but never get around to it before you get there to save them.