EvilGeko

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so seriously, what do you guys think the next nerf will be? or maybe, what change will that make that also affects regen?

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Does Dull Pain recharge faster than rest? If yes, then that's our puppy.

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I could actually see them pulling back that DP buff. *Shrug*

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When the hell did they switch Quick Recovery and Reconstruction??

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Umm.. never. Recon was always 2nd and QR 3rd.

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weird, that's almost exactly the version of regen i've been toying with on my personal spreadsheets.

do you think they do something to allow us to 6slot for heals in FH and Int? or is that asking too much?


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BTW - the reason that your dream version of regen tracks mine so closely is that it's just a natural progression in the powerset. The powerset is very, very jerky right now with the progression in power being off. Additionally the reason for the unenhanceable portions is completely gone, but as we know that never stopped the devs.

From the minute that they had FH at 75% and IN at 150%, it just made sense to have IH at 300% with a lower recharge.

It perfectly fits the theme of passive<toggle<click. Double the benefit each time with the standard drawbacks of each type of power.

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weird, that's almost exactly the version of regen i've been toying with on my personal spreadsheets.

do you think they do something to allow us to 6slot for heals in FH and Int? or is that asking too much?


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That's asking too much. Perhaps FH and other one enhancement powers will be made ED immune, but nothing as "uber" as Integration.

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so what do you think we've got coming our way for I7?

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Believe it or not....buffs. Not for Regen, of course, we're getting nerfed or at best we might get an accidental buff ala DP.

But I can't believe they are going to leave ED in place as it is. It is so unfair to so many powers that were NOT broken, that some rollback should occur. The change might be to move certain enhancers to different schedules. Like the often suggested move of defense and resist enhancers to schedule A.

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Wishlist:

As for Regen, it would be so nice if they cleaned the set up. Made it more rational in terms of its benefits. Something like:

Fast Healing - same
Recon - same
QR - same (NO NERFS!)
DP - same
Integration - make fully enhanceable
Resilience - Up to 7.5% (like EA Brute's passives)
Instant Healing - 300% Fully enhanceable click 300 sec. recharge
Revive - give Mutation's buffs when you rez
MoG - 40% resist; 20% defense; status protect; end recovery; full heal at start; no regen, full healing for duration, 25% HP crash at END with -regen that it has now.

But I'll be happy with no nerfs.

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Finally, I'm on a break from the game right now and there is NOTHING like a break to increase your enjoyment of the game. I'm going to play other games for a couple of more weeks just to clear my head of the travesty of ED.

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speaking of which, where has that rascally dev gotten to? haven't seen him post in weeks.

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Probably on vacation like a lot of us. Now they got to get I7 ready.

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*Smack*

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ROFLMAO!

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It's been a while since I4 and that huge thread back then but I really feel truthfully that was the point were Regen became the enemy of Jack and the Devs.

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I think that is when it really became a personal thing for them, yeah. We caught them with their pants down, and they realized they really didn't know how their own game worked. Regen just happened to be the ones to prove that to 'em.

I would venture that because of that, Regen will never be returned to one of the top tier sets. No matter what happens in the future Regen will be looked at by Jack, Geko, et al., as the "power gamer" set, and allowed to wallow in mediocrity till they shut the servers down.

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Yes, I think this is true. Look at Stalker Regen. Basically to spite powergamers they took Quick Recovery out instead of the imminently more reasonable Resilience or Revive.

And again, we had to debunk all their initial reasons before Castle just had the courage to admit it.

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Personally I think it should be stickied in the Dev Digest, but whatever floats your boat.

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lol. Posting in this thread pretty much invalidates any feedback you give in the eyes of the devs, so I'm not so sure that's likely.

However, the original lounge was stickied in the Dev Corner.

Should we get this moved to Forum Games? I mean, this thread is part bizch session, part funny anecdote, part throw darts at the devs, and finally once in a great while some information will be exchanged.

You know. All those things Pseudotron lists would be so rocking if ED (and to a certain extent I5) never happened.

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How does that follow? Anyone can stand around in Marconeville of Port Oakes and kill any Boss that pops.

But not everyone will.

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And not everyone will get a general family badge. What's your point?

We don't have [much] loot in CoX, no reason to bar content via boring farming.

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And even if they change it not everyone will get the badge. You still have to choose to fight the family through your missions. That's not as easy as it sounds.

Actually it is. They are one of the more frequent opposing factions.


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Umm.. no they're not.

Kalinda - never fight them
Mongoose - never fight them
Bocor - I don't remember fighting them
Billy Heck - The Vendetti Family is an opposed contact, so is the Marcones later
Angelo Vendetti - Mostly council
Peter Themari - Mostly Wyvern
Shelly Percy - Can't remember, but different enemies, not family focused
Dmitri Krylov - Mostly Vahzilok
Whilly Wheeler - mostly CoT, Legacy
Golden Roller - Can't remeber honestly!
Radio - Here either
Marshall Brass - Little if any family, mostly that Aeon arc
Seer Marino - Arachnos and CoT
Operative Wellman - OK, I'm getting old, but I can't remember, don't remember family though


That takes you through 20, only one contact focused on the family. You work FOR the families more than you have to fight them. Unless you're talking about the newspaper missions.

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I agree. We shouldn't have to farm for hours to get content. Just make the badge for any family and people will naturally earn it as they level up.

The point of making the contact unlockable is that not everyone is supposed to have it....

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How does that follow? Anyone can stand around in Marconeville of Port Oakes and kill any Boss that pops.

And even if they change it not everyone will get the badge. You still have to choose to fight the family through your missions. That's not as easy as it sounds. Most contacts aren't in opposition to the family. The point is that bosses are the exception and a pain to farm.

Make the badge for all family and it could be something ridiculous like 1000 family. Then you'll be quite a bit along by the 30s and if you're looking to get it you can.

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Since I don't know whether the missions from this contact are even worth doing, I didn't bother trying to get the badge. Tracking down a huge number of gray bosses is too much of a boring grind for my tastes.

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I agree. We shouldn't have to farm for hours to get content. Just make the badge for any family and people will naturally earn it as they level up.

Ah yes, the old unnerfed Regen was able to do some amazing things. Hunting the PI docks at 37+ was fun. But it wasn't exactly Regen by itself.

People forget now that nearly everyone was running around with a minimum of 10% defense to melee, ranged from Hasten and Combat Jumping/Hover. Many Regens added another 20% from Weave, and 33% Sm, Le resists from Tough, plus maybe another ten or so from Resilience.

As I said in the Regen nerf wars of I3 and I4, Regen by itself was incredible, but it was only with the addition of these other powers that it crossed into godly.

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A few issues back, I was regularly taking on 2 +2 Nemesis Bosses simultaneously with Major T. One was often a War Hulk, and the other was a Fake Nemesis. Of course, during that time, IH was an amazing toggle and we were able to get 50% resistance to Smashing and Lethal damage with Tough and Resilience.

The good old days...

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That I can definitely buy. I know that was possible.

All I'm saying is I wish people would keep the wild claims out. Regen was powerful enough without having to make stuff up. If that means I lose some people's respect, so be it.

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Saying someone is probably lying is pretty low. So much for all the respect I had for you in helping me make my bs/regen. You can disagree with someone without having to lower yourself to insults, EvilGeko. You flame the person saying he thought regen was too powerful, then you flame the guy backing him up.


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It's easy to throw stones, but not accept them in turn. You said you couldn't find challenge unless you were fighting 3 +4 Bosses. Had you said one +4 Boss, or something similar, I might have agreed with you.

But honestly, it's posts like yours that cause a lot of the Regen hate. Three +4 Bosses would most likely alpha strike a issue 2 Regen, much less an Issue 4. I was insulted by your post.

Regen was overpowered, if by overpowered you mean they could run over Invincible missions. As compared to other sets, it was powerful, but comparable to the pet controllers, Invul Scrappers and all the tanks.

Now, that said, I don't take any of this stuff personally, and you shouldn't either. BTW I did not insult you. I insulted your argument. Arguments are fair game in my opinion. A specious argument is entitled to NO deference. I never said you were wrong that Regen was overpowered. Actually if you look up a few posts I admit Regen was one of the gods of the game a few months ago. But jeez man can we at least keep the "Regen took on three hundred +2 minions, while afk" stories out. Regen could never do those things by itself. Add in Tough, Weave, maybe another couple of defense powers and yeah, that's possible.

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3 +4 bosses in issue 4 without recon and 1slot integration. forgive me if I don't accept that at face value.

once again, another person singling out regen for stuff that many, many people could do.

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I don't accept that BS at any value. He's either grossly exaggerating or outright lying. Probably both.

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The Entire Thread

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I guess some people enjoyed Easy Mode(TM). Personally, I did not.

My MA/Regen Scrapper got boring as hell around level 37, when I had all his defenses and attacks pretty much maxed out. I stopped playing /Regen and made some alts. And while the low levels were full of a lot more newbies, they were also a lot more intense.

Obviously, some people don't like "intense". Some people like to turn on a few powers and strut through a mission with +4 mobs without ever dropping below 80% HP. That just wasn't for me. I like to live on the edge. That used to be what Scrapping was all about...

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Just a question. Outside of Blasters what wasn't easy mode in Issue 4 and prior?

Also, if you weren't having fun, why didn't you try what many of us did. Just turn IH off. I think I ran IH for the Envoy of Shadow and Terra and for not much else from 35-40. After I3 and Integration got it's healing, Instant Healing was pretty much for large teams and AV hunting.

So, I guess I'm confused. It was really easy in give yourself more of a challenge with Regen. Do you not have much self-control?

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regen was but one amongst a pantheon.

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Gods of War - BS, Spines, Fire Blast, Ice Blast, Energy Melee, */Energy Manipulation

God of Guardians - Invulnerability

God of Life - Regeneration

God of Fire - Firey Aura and Fire Control TIE

God of the Underworld - Stone Aura

God of the Psyche - Illusion Control

God of the Hearth - */Radition

God of Speed - */Kinetics

Of course, if you are or were two of the above, you were kicking butt and taking names.

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I don't know who to feel more sorry for: the people who never played an old Regen or the people who did.

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Definitely the old school regens. No one (except maybe the Invuls) understands. They don't realize how hard you had to work to get to 28, the steps you had to take to make IH end efficient. And they never experienced the payoff.

Ah the payoff....what did they do to you baby...

Darn Fanboy. I can honestly say I had started to forget how frikken uber Regen could be. 50% Sm, Le; 25% Me; Le defense; 2400% Regeneration.

It does make you wonder what the heck were the devs thinking?

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Quick question:

Is Caltrops + (Trip Mine * 3) a "One Shot" or is it 4 attacks?

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Trick Question. The answer doesn't matter. It has the same psychological effect that a one-shot does. Whether you devs are OK with that being a tactic or not is up to you.

My personal opinion is that PvP is unfair. And it never will be perfectly fair. Players will always come up with ways to take people out with no risk to themselves. At the end of the day, I think you devs should make it as fair as you can by whatever definition of fair you use and step back.

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His one posted test involved using the broken version of Invincibility. He also completely glosses over the fact that when buffed, any AT can Tank, so what then is so special about Tanks?


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The goal of the game is to make sure there isn't an ideal team composition. So, yes, a Scrapper, with buffs, can tank, but not as well as a Tanker. Why? Because 1) a Tanker starts with higher resistances/defenses and 2) he has Punchvoke and thus can manage the aggro better.

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Then why did you make having a support character near essential. Prior to I5, Tanks and Scrappers didn't necessarily need Defenders and Controllers to take on AVs and other hard content. Basically if you had any two ATs represented in your groups you would probably be fine. The only AT that possibly needed another AT was Blasters.

Now support is near essential to take on tough content. Of course, you can do fine with normal missions without a lot of support, but I've had SF and TF have to break up recently (at the very end no less) because we didn't have the support to take on the AV.

Best example was the Sharkhead SF. I had a group with two brutes, a couple of MM, a Corrupter and a couple of dominators. Should have destroyed everything right? Yeah, except no psi defense at the end meant that we could even get the whole group to the AV.

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Statesman seems to think that there is no satisfaction in crafting where you just put some items together into a menu and hit build.

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Actually, I was talking about Skills, not crafting.

What's the difference? In the end, crafting yields a usable commodity. In Skills, you might have unlocked a door or opened a safe or whatever....if I could guarantee that clicking on a computer could yield as cool a reward as an Enhancement, well, that'd be something. But the problem is that there are only a few computers in the world (and missions), whereas crafting is rather unlimited. One needs to undergo risk to gather resources (let's use Salvage as an example), but there isn't much risk in clicking on a computer.

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OK, scrap skills and builds a true crafting system around salvage. Crafting professions:

<ul type="square">[*] Tailor (new costume piece tokes that unlock new things at Icon/Facemaker)
[*] Furnituremaking (personal bases and SG bases)
[*] Alchemist (magic), Geneticist(mutant), Engineer(tech), Drill Sergeant(nat), Researcer(Sci) (Enhancements)[/list]
Start there and see how it works.