EvilGeko

Thank you again for the responses folks. I greatly appreciate it, as this has given me some insight into this topic. I wanted folks to know that my somewhat serious tone is an attempt to ensure that this controversial topic remains respectful. I'll be back to the argumentative jerk you all know and hate/love/stick pins in his voodoo effigy.

May I ask a question. I will not argue with anyone's response and I hope you'll answer with a yes or no. Obviously I can't force you to and I don't mean to presume I can. Please note, I will not quarrel with any of you because of your answer nor will I hold any hard feelings. I'm honestly curious. I feel that the two sides are talking over each other.

Do you believe that I am not telling the truth (either willfully or not) when I say that I don't care about what other people do and that some real money items affect how I feel about the game independent of other players' actions?

Thanks for the responses. I will not argue with anyone else's opinion.

tl:dr version - If you don't have to earn things, then they don't mean as much to me than if you do.

There have been discussions recently about whether certain market items represent the phenomenon known as 'Pay to Win.' (Sometimes abbreviated P2W) There are a number of definitions floating out there about what constitutes 'Pay to Win'. For some folks, Pay to Win can only exist in a PvP environment where exclusive items are sold that give a material advantage against other players. On the other side of the spectrum there are folks who believe anything sold that affects gameplay in any way is Pay to Win.

I believe my personal view is more nuanced that either of those extremes. However, I have seen folks (including myself) challenged by the proposition, "Why do you care what others do in their game?" The implication being that the only objection that anyone could have against a particular item is that it provides someone else with an advantage. I think that proposition too narrowly considers the question. But to answer that specific objection, it is not in anyway problematic to be concerned what others do. MMORPGs are organic, community driven games. Things that provide one player an advantage can affect another gamer in ways that we might not realize at first.

For example, if a piece of gear (in our game, enhancements) is sold for real money, that removes a potential customer from someone selling the same item for in-game money or barter. One could certainly feel that is an acceptable loss, you might even believe that the potential seller in that case is a 'price-gouger' for selling the item at a price higher than one might consider an item worth. But selling such an item for real world money undeniably affects the in-game economy. Whether you believe that is for the good or ill is mostly irrelevant. What, for our purposes here is, that the actions of another player in purchasing items for real world money can affect other players.

But as I said above, that is not my principal objection to some of these items. My objection is that selling certain items allows you to 'win' the game. OK, so there is no 'game-over' in City of Heroes (and other MMORPGs) so what am I talking about? I am talking about the various rewards that the game offers players. No you can't 'win' the whole game. But you most certainly can win a "Master of XXX" badge, or a suit of armor from the Imperious Task Force, or a Hamidon Origin enhancer from Hamidon or the LTF/LRSF. Personally, I feel that folks who make the "there's nothing to win" argument are being disingenuous. There are so many things to win in this game. All these various challenges and goals. Some people chase badges, some IOs, some costumes. All are rewards. And in my opinion, once those rewards can simply be purchased, I lose much of my interest in obtaining them. Please believe me when I say that I don't care how this affects others. I care how it affects my feelings regarding the game. I enjoy earning things in the game.

While I usually try to avoid using analogies, I'll take the risk here. When I was in high school, I played on my school's baseball and football teams. Now to be honest, I sucked at football. I wasn't a starter, and I only played a few games. But I went out there and tried hard. And at the end of the season, like many high schools, we had a letter ceremony. The school awarded me a little piece of fabric with the school's initial (L for Leo) to wear on a jacket or do what I will with it. I treasured that letter. Why? It's just a little piece of fabric. But it's a piece of fabric I earned by trying hard, going to practices and representing my school. The school would not allow you to just buy a letter and wear it. You had to earn it. It wasn't particularly hard to earn. Like I said, I only played a few games. But you did have to earn it. Let's say the school allowed people to buy the letter, but also awarded it to players. I can honestly say, I would not have cared as much about the letter. It's not because someone who bought it, didn't earn it while I did. It's because "I DIDN'T NEED to earn it." It's really not a reward for doing anything. It's just something you can buy.

Likewise, when certain items are sold, I can not see them as rewards, but only as things you can buy. For example, the mutant set costume pieces. I bought them. I didn't have any fun buying them. They just are there. On the other hand, I earned the Roman set from the ITF. Now, this is no great feat, thousands of others have done so as well. But I have a bit more affection for that set because I earned it. Anytime a reward is sold, given out, etc. a bit of the game dies for me because even if you can earn something and get it for free, the fact that I don't have to means it stops feeling like a reward. Applied to our market, I think of the various reasons I play: to create powerful heroes, accomplish difficult tasks, win shiny stuff (IOs, costumes, etc.) when a reward is added to the market or something is added to the market that makes earning a reward substantially easier, a little bit of the game loses its meaning for me.

Sorry, I don't normally drone on this long. Even if no one reads this, I'm glad to have gotten it off my chest.

I am completely in love with my Peacebringer now. It's so darn nice to be able to do efficient AoE damage for once.

Got the KB>KD IO on my first one. Haven't got one since. Don't think I can do this much more. Really, really disappointed in this event. Tailor made for frustration.

Look how the winter event works. You can buy the set or the proc if that's all you want. You can just play the VARIOUS events until you get enough to buy what you want. Here, you have to go through this extremely boring event, as many times as is necessary to get the only thing many of us want. Especially since the set bonuses on this set are nothing to write home about.

Man Issue 23 and its attendant content is really some of the worst I've seen in this game in years. It's shocking after the win that has been Issue 19-21.

Please sell the KB>KD IO for some kind of merit.

Sigh....

Time to start farming. Any chance we'll see an independent KB>KD IO?