EvilGeko

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So should i pick Mog or Phase shift on my spines/regen stalker?

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Neither. Use inspirations and save a respec in case Castle ever gets Geko on board with changing MoG.

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MoG is a fantastic power, even the way it is now. Despite limitations as described above, if you have any trouble with PvE as a regen then the problem is with you and your tactics, not the powerset.

Epistropheus 50 DM/Regen

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Prove it. Give me any situation, you would use MoG in and I'll show you a way to do it safer. Because in fact, if you're using MoG to save yourself it's probably your tactics that are deficient.

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so few things are better than inspirations.

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I'm better than inspirations!

>.>

<.<

AM SO!

*stomps feet and runs away*

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QFE. So am I. Arcanaville is a very mean womyn.

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1. I think you mean four lucks, not two. It takes four lucks to floor, not two, because they are half the strength they are labelled as.


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No, I said you need four lucks to match the defense of MoG, but when I refer to two it's that 25% defense (two lucks) PLUS your normal regen powers > MoG.

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Its not a strong argument for change.

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Not arguing for a change here. Geko doesn't want MoG changed now. I'm just putting this out here so we can link to it when people say, "What's wrong with MoG?"

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Rebuttal: How can you hate a power with that cool an animation? That's right. You can't.

Therefore Moment of Glory is indeed, glorious. QED.

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That's fine. Only use it in Atlas to impress the noobs.

OK, it's time to basically lay it out there. Moment of Glory is an awful power. Bad. It sucks. So you're saying, prove it. OK here goes.

WHAT IS MOMENT OF GLORY?

Moment of Glory is the Scrapper and Stalker Regeneration set's ninth power and is available at level 38. Moment of Glory has the following effects:

1.0 endurance buff
status protection of -17+ MAG
180 sec duration; 1000 recharge
9.5 Scale resists to all but Psi (71.25%)
9.5 Scale defense to all but Psi and Toxic (71.25%)
Full Heal at the beginning; then damaged by 75% of current HP
-heal/regen for the duration of the power
Crash to -regen for 15 seconds

Please note that the resistance and the HP drop cancel each other out, except for Psi damage which you take proportionally 400% more damage.

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OK EG, WHAT'S SO BAD ABOUT THAT

MoG has the following problems:

<ul type="square">[*]Teammates buffs and heals have little to no use

Right now under MoG, MoG is almost the only thing you can rely on for three minutes. That is direct contravention of a stated developer goal to encourage teaming. Basically unless your teammates have a Psi or positional defense buff or a Psi resist buff, you have little to no need of their defensive buffs.
[*]MoG makes you much more vulnerable to Psi and Toxic damage

Under MoG you have only 25% of your HP and basically no protection at all to Psi. You have toxic resistance but no defense since Toxic defense does not exist.

This makes you vulnerable to the following groups (With thanks to Sarrate):

Knives of Artemis - Caltrops will kill you, plus the girls have an acc bonus (more on that below)
Carnies - No psionic defense, 25% hp, no healing. The bosses will one-shot you.
Rularuu - Near auto-hit powers that debuff defense.
Devouring Earth - Quartz will basically let them auto-hit you. Swarms deal toxic damage (you have no defense vs toxic)
Nemesis - If Vengeance is stacked, it will blow through MoG; Some Nemesis robots use toxic gas
Hydra - They deal Toxic damage, again, no defense.
Arachnos - They have Psionic and toxic damage dealers aplenty
Hamidon - Has such honkin high to-hit, you get one shot
Falling Damage - Laugh all you want, but you can't regenerate that 50 damage you just took. Keep in mind Since you only have 25% hp to begin with, you bascially took 50*4 damage.
Rikti - Psionic damage from Mentalists. Rikti Monkeys use psi and emit toxic gas when they die. Dying to an underling makes the baby Scrapper cry.
CoT Crystals - The red damage crystals are auto hit. Whee
Malta - Gunslingers have extremely high accuracy
[*]Moment of Glory suffered because of the NPC accuracy changes

You'll note in that list above that I said that some NPC have high accuracy. Well, normally that wouldn't be a problem since MoG's defense is so high. But after Issue 7's changes, NPCs of higher level and rank get accuracy bonuses instead of to-hit bonuses. This means that where they used to have a 5% chance to-hit, many mobs have higher bonuses going up to 10%.

While that's low, since you have no ability to heal and have 25% of your HP, you're stuck with the HP that you have. Which leads to our next point:
[*]Moment of Glory lasts too long

MoG lasts three minutes. However, even against NPCs you're strong against, they can wear you down. After consistent testing, in minute 2 of the power, you start getting into trouble. I have only infrequently been able to survive a sustained assault under MoG.
[*]Moment of Glory is demonstrably worse than two-four lucks

Under the current system, it takes approximately 12 lucks to rival the defense of MoG. However, that ignores that you still have access to all your powers under those lucks where you don't under MoG. So a Regen can get by with two lucks every minute (6 for the duration of MoG) and be well and truly more resilient. In the 40s you have 20 inspiration slots. Devoting half your tray to lucks isn't a bad use of space for a regen who has little to no need of CaB or respites.
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IS MOMENT OF GLORY ANY GOOD?

Well, yeah. There are a few limited circumstances where MoG is a "defensible" choice to use. They are:

1) Against, purely Sm, Le, elemental and energy NPCs. The classic example used by the power's defenders is the Malta Sapper. Well, no doubt it works against them.

Only downside is that lucks work better.

2) All heals, inspirations, buffs, teammates, etc. are down.

For a good player this is more theorhetical. I've tried to get into the situation without luck, but if you pay absolutely no attention to your resources and get yourself in spot where you can't wait the 30 seconds for Recon to recharge MoG can be useful.

Well that's it.

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REBUTTALS:

Danmit EG! You Regen are already the bestest, most uberest set in the game. Now you're telling me you want a useful Tier 9 too!!

Well yeah. The current design of Regen is irrelevant. Because of the nerfs of I3-I5, ED had little effect on Regen while it smacked Invul and SR hard. But I don't believe intra-AT balance means that Regen "deserves" a gimp 38 power. That's not fair either. Every power should be enjoyable and any power that putatively intends to protect you should not act as a DEBUFF to your protection.

Pfft. At least you don't have Dark Armor's 38 power!

That's right, and I support any change to Fire Aura's or Dark Armor's 38 power. In fact I would suggest that after getting up, those powers should be even stronger than Unstoppable or Elude since they require a death. But again, just because someone is in a similar boat doesn't mean we shouldn't fix MoG.

FIX BOTH!!

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My question is this: are these base raids going to be villain vs. villain, or -only- hero vs. villain, or any combination of the two?

I realize scheduling raids does not sit well with some, but I'd much rather be able to be there to defend our base, rather than sign on and find it destroyed one day with no warning.

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Thread necromancy most foul. Get out the rope!

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*sniff*

You guys.... shucks.

Yes - I am still going to PAX - someone organize a meetup Friday night after the con - somewhere near to the place they are holding it and I'll be there. Just tell me where and when.

Yes - we should have an in-game party! I am working on the details - stay tuned!

Thanks for all the love and kind words. I'll miss you all tons.

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CuppaJo, I can say seriously, your loss is a MAJOR blow to CoH/V. I can see why they want the best on Tabula Rasa, but darnit, I feel like pulling out the pitchforks and torches.

*cries*

I caught this late, but this is a sad day. No more CuppaJo. I have to tell you that this will not be the same game without you. You've been a great community manager and I wish you luck in the new game.

x 1,000,000,000,000,000

Quiet on redname front. Sucks to be at work.

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The shocker is that it came from Cricket not Cuppa .

I have come to expect Cricket postings = bad news, and Cuppa postings = good ones.

[/ QUOTE ]you know, this could be a hysterical new contact pairing to add to the game, the contact is cuppajo, or some variation therein so that its obvious its referencing her, and every mission you have to talk to an insect themed superheroine krikkit. anyhow how it would work is every time you contact cuppa, she gies you this rosey description of this teeny tiny job states has and she tells you about all the cool artifacts, and heroic deeds associated with it, and then sends you to krikkit, who then reacts astonished to the description you got and proceeds to tell you about all the baddies and monsters, basicly lets you know that this is very likely the end of life in the universe as we know it , or how the good event has gone horribly wrong. example follows.

cuppa:good news rian frostdrake, the freedom phlanx recognizes your tireless dedication to justice, and thinks you could use a friend to help you unwind after a hard day's work, so we got you a puppy, states wanted you to have it, ask krikket where hes being stored so you can pick him up.

Krikket: bad news, the puppy played with luminary too long , hes now a mutated 8 foot tall warwolf, you ahve to go defeat him before he eats kings row.
(note: this could actually be used to unlock a "decorative" base item, a nameable pet warwolf who just walks around looking menacing, ala creature handlers pets in their houses in star wars galaxies)
example 2.
C:the freedom phlanx has an oppertunity to get more in touch with nature, ask krikkit about it
K: devouring earth...lots of them, bring friends..and a lenient health care plan.
ex3
C: we want you to meet someone , shes out of this world
K: Rikti eleit boss, and shes a magus, who was your next of kin again?

i figure it could be funny wether you get the reference or not. Whaddaya say?

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ROFL!! Do this devs!!

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[ QUOTE ][*]High level Banished Pantheon Masks do not count for Banisher. (Some people will claim it's because these are in a Portal mission, but other mobs in Portal missions count for badges, such as Fake Nemesis. This is more likely a level glitch like Ancestor Spirits.)



[/ QUOTE ]FUTURE PATCH: Portal Generated Banished Pantheon Spirits will count (they were not before).

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WOOT!! Let ye farming begin!

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It makes me think that they thought of only 8 powers, but had to fill in 9 tiers. So... let's subtract DEF here (UY) and put it over here (TH), to tone down the potential DEF provided by Invinc. Viola! 9 powers!

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Unyielding was originally Unyielding Stance and it had no -DEF component. It did, however, make you immobile. This was incredibly unpopular and it was decided to remove that penalty. At that point, the -DEF was added to replace the Immobilize penalty.

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Unyielding also gave 20%(15% for Scraps) resists to all but Psi (and Toxic) then too. One could understand the penalty in the face of that buff. Why now?

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Yes.

It would be interesting if they made a lvl 10ish power for regen that decreased your End recovery by 50 percent so that you HAD to take Stamina to get it back up... er wait...

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Regens have to take Revive to get up if they take MoG!

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Personally, I hate the word, and try never to use it when talking about the game to players. It carries a very negative stigma that I like to avoid whenever possible.

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Strangely enought the exact same thing can now be said of the word "BALANCE"



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QFT. Whatever word you use is going to get the negative stigma because people generally don't like nerfs.

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Here's a fun thing to try... any time you see the word 'nerf' substitute the word 'balance'. It works!

"Man! They really balanced that power this time!"
"Oh No! They balanced me!"
"I sure hope they don't try and balance &lt;insert power here&gt;."
"My fire tank was uber until the devs balanced him."
"They've balanced us one too many times! I'm quitting!"
...

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But then, in a demonstrably large number of circumstances, you'd be disseminating falsehoods.

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In addition, the word "balance" would be stricken from the developer vocabulary for fear of its newly aquired stigma, still failing to fool, placate or even impress the players who have issues with the action it describes.

It's not the use of the word "nerf" that anyone gives a rat's [censored] about, it's the actual changes that swirl the playerbase into a frenzy. Just take a look at Enhancement diversification. The word "nerf" appears nowhere in its description, and yet explosions still ensued.

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Honestly they would have had less complaints if they had just called it "Enhancement Nerfing". There were quite a few posts ticked at the inanity of calling something "diversification" that lessened the number of viable alternatives.

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Question: if, prior to the devs making HOs 50/50, they announced a "buff to all power sets was coming" would that have been the truth, a lie, or just misleading.

It seems to me that if increasing the maximum possible slotting capability is not a universal buff to all sets, but reducing the maximum possible slotting capability is a universal nerf to all sets, then we're talking much more about psychology than objective reality.

Keep in mind, I'm the one who made the "mentioning it in the hallway" comment so I'm on record as thinking this was bad form right from the start. Just saying, I wonder if this is less about the devs being consistent and not misleading, and more about the devs not seeming to realize just how fragile credibility actually is.

I.e. "technically right" is usually not the goal when you're attempting to gain the trust of the people you're communicating with.


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The correct analogy would have been if the devs had made all enhancements 50% (30% for Sch B, etc.). If they said they were buffing all powersets and then just buffed every enhancement I would say that's perfectly true and consistent.

It's not psychology so much as net effect. Statesman was technically right in Issue 2 when he said a "small tweak" was coming to Regen. But players (all customers really) don't care about how much work it is for you. They care about the net effect on their playstyle.

In any event, ED was just Statesman not having the courage after I5 of saying, "This is what we think the game needs. If it's not enough there might be more major changes later." That would have been the truth. Of course, it would have pushed some people away. But for me, having credibility with the customers would have been more important.

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So many opportunities, but some people see nothing but sour grapes. It's hard to believe.


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Honestly, it's not.

Every facet of this game has been complained about to some extent. In that vein, every facet of just about EVERYTHING has been complained about to some extent since the internet came about.

The internet is a place where geeks get together to share pornography and complain about video games.

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We complain about movies, books and music too. Get another hobby hippie.

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MMORPGs are the perfect example of being able to please some of the people some of the time, but never being able to please all of the people all of the time.

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QFT.

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well i cant see what else you would call "nerfing" burn

posi might not remember it but its one of those powers that we "use" to use

since hes not nerfing things..maybe he can tell us when he plans on fixing the power he messed up then?

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I would call Burn's change many things:

Power alteration
Reduced in effectiveness
Strength modification
Debuff to the power
etc.

Just because I don't use the word "nerf" does not mean things will never be adjusted in a downward direction.

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Nerf is easier. Seriously. Let go of your annoyance and you'll see that it's just a word. It's a pretty cute word at that. And its etymology makes sense for its most common usage.

The developers (including Statesman) who I've seen use it, aren't anymore villainous. Hell, I think many people (but I'll speak only for me) think it's cool when a dev doesn't hide behind weasel words and just proudly says, "We nerfed Burn."

Say it with me Positron, "I (or Geko most likely) nerfed Burn." Nothing bad about that sentence. It's just a fact.

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And yeah, a Tier 9 self rez is pretty crappy, but that only makes MoG the second worst Tier nine melee defense power.

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I find self-rezzes more useful than a power that sucks in every real-life situation. Fact is, eventually you're going to die and self-rezzes help you get back into the fight faster than going to the hospital without relying on another player. MoG is only useful in a few extreme circumstances that I've never been able to recognize while they're happening. Properly slotting your actual Regenerative powers along with inspiration use is a much more effective way to keep yourself from dying than MoG. It's been said before, I'll say it again, a handful of lucks is far better than MoG any day of the week and twice on sundays.

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I disagree. Clear testing has shown that lucks + normal regen powers is better than MoG FOUR times on Sunday. Your MoG love has got to stop Nishnig!

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ok, Ive tested this numerous times, MoG ends BEFORE the warning timer even starts blinking. All the other tier 9 powers are working fine though. Devs, pls fix this, MoG already has enough trouble as it is.

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Technically, it's not a bug -- it works as designed. The problem is that MoG is the exception to that design. That doesn't help YOU folks at all, it's mainly me straightening out my thoughts on how to approach it. In order for this to be fixed, it will require a code change. So, I'll add it to the queue.

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Goodness that's depressing.

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Lucks only last like 30 sec. MoG last 3 min. so if I use MoG for my defense, I can use some inspiration slots for reds. With issue 7, MoG defense should be about the same as a few purples also. Also, no one is saying that you NEED Mog to solo an EB, I just think its fun to use IMHO and it is helpful after IH drop. Also, the defense and resistance drop before warning blinkie starts and CASTLE has confirmed it via pm and its on the list.

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Lucks last 60 seconds. A typical EB fight with a Stalker who opens with AS should take about 2-3 minutes. That's about how long it takes for my Brute and I don't have the big alpha. Three lucks + your regen power is MUCH safer than MoG. Taking IH out of the picture. That means you need 9 slots for little lucks. Leaving you with 11 for other stuff. That 9 slots makes you SAFER.

If IH gets you through the first half of the fight then you're good with six lucks giving you even more room for other stuff.

Please note, I had MoG when it gave base defense and recharged in less than 2 min. with a 2 min. duration (meaning you could get a heal quicker). MoG was acceptably dangerous then.

They had no business setting MoG to the same 1000 second recharge/3-min duration they gave Elude and Unstoppable and they seriously had no business giving a power with a durational crash an additional ending crash.

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MoG doesnt suck if used right so yes the bug does matter. I just soloed a red conned non-psi elite boss with it. Its great to run when your IH runs out and if you say MoG is only good against -10 mobs you really dont have a clue and your just bashing mog. Without IH running, red conned EB's overcome too much of your regeneration and MoG compliments IH nicely WHEN it runs out and it will run out cause lvl 40-50 in CoV is jammed FULL of EB's. Btw, just soloed Mako (one of the hardest) using IH followed by MoG. Does MoG need work? yes. Does MoG suck? Nope. Not if used right and thats a fact.

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In the 40s you have 20 inspirations slots. Try hitting three-four lucks against those EBs and keep your Regen powers active. You will be safer. That's not an opinion. That's a fact.

On topic: If there is a bug, BUG IT in game.

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as a sidenote, anyone else think its kind of weird that a 43 year old man is leading(what i had assumed to be) a teenage gang? I mean, common cannon for mutants is their mutation manifests in their teens. But if Frostie was 17 back in '79, he would be in his 40's today. Maybe they should retcon it to '89 or the mid 90's...

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There are a lot of RL street gangs led by guys in their 40s so it's not so strange, but if they wanted to keep the Outcasts = naughty mutant kids, then they should change his arrest date to 99' making FF the nice tender age of 24. Old enough to be a plausible leader, but young enough not to be old to his minions.