EvilGeko

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but I'm glad to see all the whiney cheapskates with their 'warped sense of entitlement" brings out the honest aggression in the decent folks

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Wow. So since my opinion differs from your own I'm whiney, warped, cheap and indecent. I don't want anything much, I just don't want everyone to have what was paid for completely. Show me that since I gave the most as a customer I get some consideration. Go ahead and have both games available, but leave them with 8 character slots. They didn't pay for that. No doubt further name calling will proceed due to my warped sense of entitlement.

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Why the heck does it matter if some people get a few extra character slots? How does that hurt you? You bought the game and enjoyed it, and they are changing their price structure now.

The GvE edition costs around $30-40 in the store. By virtue of having bought both games at launch I paid $100. Do I feel "screwed" out of $60-70. No. I don't feel entitled to anything other than the two free months and the three years of fun I've had. I just don't see where this sense of entitlement comes from.

Heck, at least Greyed wants something. You just don't want somebody else to have something because they're getting for free what you had to pay for. That's just....

I don't have an word for it that wouldn't run afoul of the forum rules. So I'll just say that it's unreasonable.

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OK i cant search through all these pages..my question is this, has the supergroup max members # been upped to 150? Cuase by my math 75 members x 20,000 prestige is only 1.5 mil. So i'm guessing the max number of members is 150 now? Is that right?

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Yes, that's correct. It's part of the Issue 11 changes. Check out the patch notes, a whole lot of win is coming.

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So we have no issue about the legal ramifications and we're having a matter of difference on the opinion portion. That somehow makes me unreasonable and you reasonable? Not likely.

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I'm not the one screaming about supposedly being out $5. I'm not the one crying about someone getting something for free that I had to pay for (remember I'm in that boat too, I paid more than you did for CoV). I'm not the one pleading for something that I'm not entitled to.

You're being unreasonable. Whether you can see that or not is irrelevant. You have NO reason to expect that NCSoft will give you anything other than what you paid for. You aren't out a lot of money.

You can talk about good customer service until you're blue in the face. NCSoft is exercising good customer service. They're providing a lot of freebies for their customers to commemorate this occasion. That you feel somehow wronged because someone else got something for free is selfish, rude and unreasonable.

I'm not going to sugar coat this like I normally would.

All NCSoft is basically doing is giving out some free copies of the game. They do that all the time. The media often gets free accounts for review. Does that screw you over? No. It's done as a way to promote the game.

Giving away the other side of the game helps all players by increasing the number of people we can group with and it helps nurture the community. That's a net win for us all. But all you can worry about is your frikken $5. Well I would prefer that they spend that money making the game better than giving you a dime of free time.

You don't deserve it. You aren't entitled to it. But who knows, maybe if you complain enough you'll get it.

We can only hope not.

(And if you don't like hearing the truth, you can feel free to ignore me.)

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Again you're wrong. As other people have cited here Apple did much the same thing when they lowered the price on the iPhone by $100. Furthermore there are many other examples companies offering some sort of compensation where a fundamental change in the price structure of a product could be taken by customers as shafting them out of something.


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Read what I wrote, I said you had no legitimate expectation of this based on law or general business custom.

You have not suggested any legal necessity that NCSoft do this and you haven't shown that this is general business custom. Anecdotes like the IPhone fiasco don't show a custom. They show what one company is doing to stave off a substantial loss of goodwill among their early adopters.

This is not a comparable circumstance. Here a small group of players is being given a freebie. And another small group of players who recently purchased the second half of the game feel like they are being screwed, although they received a free month with their purchase. NCSoft isn't lowering the price of CoV or CoH, they're giving them away to people who already own the other.

You think you're out $5, the people who bought Iphones think they would have been out $100. Many of those people left their cellular carrier to buy that phone. The difference between the two situations is stark. And it still doesn't prove a custom.

Your request continues to be selfish and unreasonable in my estimation.

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I would guess that each of us, without exception*, has a favorite axe to grind and hopes it gets more attention with a larger dev team.

*OK, maybe not EvilGeko.

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There's always MoG.

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You make EG sad...

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He can respec out of it an unlimited number of times: he'll be fine.

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You truly are a mean woman.

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QR

My self I see cryptic/MS suing NCSoft/CoX if a CoX2 is going to be worked on

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On what basis? This deal allows precisely that outcome.

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After I11 and I12, one about to release and the other more than likely already in the works, how many FREE Issues after that will be the "wow and cool" factors that people here have come to expect?


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You realize, of course, that Issues 9-11 exhausted the EvilGeko's wishlist except for fixing MoG? And that change would take fifteen minutes of Castle's time if I can only talk Positron into it.

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How many features that we've come to expect from the Free Issues (mainly new powers, possible epic ATs, and zones) will, instead become pay-for-expansions. And will they run the normal $30? The $10 model of the old EQ2 Adventure Packs? or a combination thereof?


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Considering that I have EQ2's Rise of Kunark expansion reserved for next week, I might be the wrong person to be looking for solidarity for on this point.

I have no problems with paid expansions. EQ2's aforementioned expansion basically creates another 25% more playspace and adds an estimated 1000 quests. It adds a new player race, more powers, two gigantic zones (think four times the size of Independence Port), a number of smaller zones and instances, 8 new raids, a buttload of loot, and new crafting options.

I would be estatic if CoX came out with a similar expansion and gladly pay the $40 I'll be paying for RoK next week.

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So, is this a good or bad change (NCSoft owning it all and promising such nice plans)? Time will tell. But I'll bet my annual salary there will be some serious business model changes for CoX in the coming 6-12 months.

Then, you decide how you feel.

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I can only hope some of the things you hinted at come to pass, I might feel even better about this decision than I do now!

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All of the CoX development team left Cryptic to stay with NCSoft, save Statesman. Take that as you will.

I don't see NCSoft's acquisition of risk in taking over CoX to be indicative that they are 'apathetic' toward the game, quite the opposite.

They are indicating an intent to 'double or triple' the staff, which we as players have been calling for since before the light went green on the servers.

In any case, a move was inevitable. We should all have forseen that there was no way Microsoft would allow Cryptic to develop both MUO and the only direct competition and trust them not to share resouces or knowledge IN THE SAME BUILDING!

So a move being inevitable, I'm glad NCSoft bought CoX.

Imagine what would have happened if Marvel or Micro$oft had gotten it.

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Or say, EA, who seem to the Galactus of the video game world.

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Or say SOE, who many in this community equate to the Dr. Doom of the video game world.

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The point is that, yes, I am out $5. It doesn't matter if it is $5 or $5,000,000, the issue is that it is money that I am out.

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You aren't out jack. You paid for a product that you apparently wanted at the time. You have the product you paid for and you paid a price that you thought was fair at the time. So you are out nothing.

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Now, did you read what I was asking for? Did you read my suggestion?

7-10 days tacked on to my subscription.

I'm not asking for the moon and stars. I am simply asking for the $5 that even you admit I am "out" to be converted to an equal amount of time as if I had paid for it... because I did pay for it!

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I don't agree you're out anything. You bought something. Somebody else got that same something for free. Oh well. That happens occassionally.

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I'm not asking for a refund. I'm not asking for another whole month for that $5. I'm asking an amount of time that the $5 would have gotten me if I had been able to make such minimal payments. At $15/month, that's 1/3rd a month or... 7-10 days depending on which month you choose to pick (Feb 7, most others 10). I'm not even demanding that they pro-rate it at any of the more economical rates one gets for prepaying for months/a year in advance.

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No what you're asking for is for them to make a change in their payment system for you. That's unreasonable. It seems reasonable to you because you're only thinking of yourself. You aren't thinking of how difficult this might be to accomplish or how it sets a bad precedent.

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I fail to see how that is in any way unreasonable or unjustified given the specific circumstances. So far I have been given unreasonable responses.

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Your request is unreasonable and unjustified, because you have no legitimate expectation of a refund based on the law or even general business custom.

You opinion about what is a reasonable response doesn't seem to based in reason, only in your emotional attachment to $5.

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Many people dislike NCSoft. At first they weren't too bad, but they've progressively gotten more and more apathetic towards the game. They laid off most of their texas branch a couple years ago (often a sign that numbers are more important than people). They replaced Cuppajo with someone who sounds like a salesman - a PR mouthpeice for NCSoft. They used to have tons of contests for the community - 5 or 6 a year I think... they're down to one now, and the prizes have gone from a couple thousand to a couple hundred. In addition to this, it doesn't look like Cryptic really liked NCSoft either - after working with them for a while, they decided to launch their next MMO's without the use of cryptic as a money-man. Now with this sale, they're distancing themselves further.


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CuppaJo always worked for NCSoft and it was always her job to be a PR mouthpiece for NCSoft. CuppaJo was moved because they liked her work here and wanted her to work on the bosses' (Richard Garriott's) new project, Tabula Rasa. It wasn't intended to tick off anyone here. It was a reflection of the love that this community had for her that they trusted her with their intended flagship.

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So it depends on what you care about. Do you want fast loot now? NCSoft will give that to you long before Cryptic would. If something would make them money, they're all for it. Do you care about community support and sincerity in actions and words? Cryptic would give that to you long before NCSoft. If something would make a better game, they're all for it.


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I think Lighthouse and Ex Libris have done a great job in their efforts to build and nurture this community. But even when CuppaJo was here, Cryptic didn't have anything to do with community support, that was always NCSoft's role.

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So is this good news or bad news? Depends on what you dig. To me, it's bad news. I stopped using the CoH community about a year ago simply due to NCSoft's horrendous handling of the community. I hope... for the sake of the development team, that most of them stuck with Cryptic - In 3 years CoH will be almost seven, which is a long time for any MMO, and while Cryptic would probably just move the people to a new project, I have a feeling NCSoft would just give them the axe.


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I think it's great news personally. I've become more engaged in the community since we've had actual community support and moderation on these boards. I think all this bashing of NCSoft has no basis in reason or fact.

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Cat, I can't find the reports. Can you direct link or direct me?

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They are on this page, but I don't think they've uploaded them yet. They just released today.

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PS: So MUO gets Statesman, Geko, Synapse and Manticore, and CoH gets Back Ally Brawler, Castle, Sexy J and Positron? And you call that a even deal?

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Fixed the question for you before I answer. The answer is no that's not an even deal.....


MUO got screwed!!

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I posted this in another thread, but I'd really like to hear the following sentence from NCSoft:

"City of Heroes Developers will not be involuntarily transferred to other NCSoft titles or laid off because of poor performance of other NCSoft titles."

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There's no way in hell they would (or should at least) post that. As an employment lawyer I will personally slap the person who did this the next time I was in California, home of plaintiff friendly employment policy.

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I would guess that each of us, without exception*, has a favorite axe to grind and hopes it gets more attention with a larger dev team.

*OK, maybe not EvilGeko.

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There's always MoG.

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I do however have to hope that NCsoft doesn't decide that they need to make major changes to CoH - its a good game *now* - it can be better yes; but I fear the possibility of "WoWitization".


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Since they bought the game and are keeping the Dev team of a successful game, I can't imagine why they'd want to put their noses into the development and make too many changes. If they're smart, they'll simply let the Dev team do what they do so well, only with more money, more people, and more support.

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That's pretty much what Robert Garriot (NCsoft North America CEO) reiterated to us on the team when he was here to talk with everyone on Friday.

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And not to put too fine a point on it, but CoX is their proven money-maker. This is going to be their baby, their cash cow. She's going to be well-fed and taken care off I bet.

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City of Heroes 2?

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Well my computer'll never run a sequel, so this one had better keep going :-)

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I think EQ and EQ2 are running at the same time.

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They are. You can't really kill a successful MMO. It just slows down. Even EQOA the PS2 version that wasn't successful is still chugging along with its tiny playerbase.

CoX players have nothing to worry about.

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SOE was not the company that did Matrix Online did. That distinction belongs to Monolith. SOE's attempts were to save an already destroyed game -- in essence, they got a pale and tried to save the Titanic after it started sinking. You can shovel all the water you want out, but the huge gaping hole still existed.

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Same with Vanguard. SOE has taken over a couple of already failing games, but it's not like it's SOE's fault the games weren't successful.

Heck with Matrix, the rumor was they took the game to get TimeWarner to agree to give them DC comics property.

In this case, it seems that NCSoft just wants to create a franchise around their most successful North American product. CoX is going to be NCSoft's Everquest. The product they invest in and grow.

I see nothing but good things coming from this.

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All players with City of Heroes retail* accounts will now have access to City of Villains, and all City of Villains retail* accounts will now have access to City of Heroes. Players that didn't previously have access to "the other side" will find that they do now. Just log in to check it out!

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So I just bought both versions of the game...does this mean that I wasted my money and if I had waited a week, I could have paid half as much?

Fabulous!

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Exactly. I am really pissed about this, there needs to be some form of compensation for those who did buy both games. Like maybe a free month or2 or something because this is totally unfair to those who spent their hard earned money on both games.

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There doesn't need to be any kind of compensation. You got to play the game for the time period between when you bought it and when it became free. You aren't entitled to anything else.

You aren't entitled to the game always being gated by money. I really don't see the basis for this argument.

One of my old guides

Another one

This EvilGeko cat has written a lot of crap

Do you think he keeps writing these things for the attention?

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In the article Positron didn't want these to be only for 'the super rich' heroes.

How is making this a rare drop going to change that? Sure, if you have a L50 / time in game / you may pull it off. But... what about the casual user?

I'm guessing the Devs don't buy much at the auction house. A "rare" drop - usable by all AT's, and all levels - is more than a cosmetic affectation. It's gonna be for the super rich and super lucky, imho.

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What? I do wonder what they're thinking saying they don't want it to be cost-gated, and then saying it should be more expensive than those.

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That was weird. I'm really wondering how that got past an editor.

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The villian respec is extremely annoying.

and tedious, did I mention its tedious.

Orenbanga is not fun, never has been.

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As is the hero respec trial...
Sitting afk for 2 hours while you wait for the next ambush (placed at 30 year intervals for your safety!!) is extremely annoying, tedious, and a huge waste of time.

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When the hero respec was first on test, it was nail-bitingly tough. It was also fun. You could barely keep up with the spawns unless you used a lot of teamwork. But it was too hard for some so it got nerfed to the snorefest it is today.

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which, of course, they had to do as it never made sense to make a respec trial that requires teamwork and good builds in order to earn the right to respec your possible crappy build.

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True, but I wish they would speed up the spawns on the second the third one. Even the crappiest teams I've been on have had no problems keeping up.

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Original article says "...they are not as rare as the new Very Rare Enhancements put into Issue 11...," but that's not my experience. Over the course of a couple of weeks of closed beta, I got 3 purple recipes, and no respec recipes. Bug?

Also, the current design double-taxes high level characters. First, the market for them will be structured around "what a level 50 who is never in supergroup mode can earn" for the initial price, and then second, the price to craft goes up with your level. Does it really need to be both? Does this game really need yet another disincentive to earn prestige for your super group?

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I suspect like the costume recipes that if this recipe winds up being too rare and going for more than say 5-10 million inf, that the devs will wind up increasing the drop rate in some way.

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The villian respec is extremely annoying.

and tedious, did I mention its tedious.

Orenbanga is not fun, never has been.

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As is the hero respec trial...
Sitting afk for 2 hours while you wait for the next ambush (placed at 30 year intervals for your safety!!) is extremely annoying, tedious, and a huge waste of time.

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When the hero respec was first on test, it was nail-bitingly tough. It was also fun. You could barely keep up with the spawns unless you used a lot of teamwork. But it was too hard for some so it got nerfed to the snorefest it is today.

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I like the concept, a lot.

My only issue is - I'd like to see a better way to STORE recipes. An SG "recipe storage bin" would be very nice. Alternately, Recipe space in our personal Vaults.

^_^

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Agreed. This is the only problem I have with this. But you can store recipes in your WWs storage, but it takes up a sale slot.

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I'm very happy about this change, but there's one thing that bugs me.

We can't store recipes in the Vault. If I get a freespec recipe and want to save it for a rainy day, I've got to lose a spot in my already limited recipe inventory.

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Just park it in a Wentworth's slot. Yes, it still takes a slot but it allows you carry one more recipe.

*Pulls out lowdrum and calls EvilGeko into the thread*

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Yes, my child.

The EvilGeko is here and happy.